Hi All:

This is the first page of a new thread created for the purpose of choosing the second Chopin composition to learn (as some have finished or are close to finishing the Db prelude).

All new forumites are welcome.[/b] You do not have had to be in the Raindrop group to join this group.

HERE[/b] is where you can make your suggestions for our next "challenge."

After a few weeks, we will take a vote.

Please remember that while some of us are pretty skilled, some of us are in the mid-middle or high beginner range. So it is difficult to find a piece that will be perfect for all.

I nominiate the F minor waltz.

Add your suggestions from here.

Kathleen

Hi Kathleen.

I would like to suggest Chopin's Waltz in c# minor.

Aside from being an exquisite piece of music, it would be a really nice challenge it learn it.

By the way, here are the suggestions from Opus' Advanced Intermediate-Early Advanced thread, along with the people who expressed a desire to learn each piece:

Mel

Here are the sheets:


Chopin Waltz in A flat, Op.69 No.1:

http://www.sheetmusicarchive.net/dlpage_new.cfm?composition_id=273


Chopin Waltz in c# minor, Op.64 No.2:

http://www.sheetmusicarchive.net/dlpage_new.cfm?composition_id=271


Chopin Waltz in f minor, Op.70 No.2:

http://www.sheetmusicarchive.net/dlpage_new.cfm?composition_id=276


Mel

Thanks Mel:

I can certainly understand why you (or anyone, for that matter) would love to learn the C#. I would too. It's magnificient!

I don't even remember what I voted on back then. I'll have to give a listen to the Ab again.

Whatever the concensus of the group mandates, then so be it, which is only fair.

Thank you, also, for the web sites for the sheet music. I'm sure it will be helpful for people to look at the music before they make up their minds.

So far, then, we have the previous suggestions from the original post(the top two) and the next listed are new suggestions. Thanks to Frycek, for a site that lists the level of difficulty of each piece, I have included that level next to the piece.

• COMPOSITION.................LEVEL[/b]
• Waltz in C#m, Op 64/2 ............7
  VOTES[/b] 2*
• Waltz in Aflat, Op 69/1...........7
  VOTES[/b] 1
• Nocturne in Fm, Op 55/1...........7
  VOTES[/b] 3
• Nocturne in Eb, Op 55/2............7
  VOTES[/b] 1

* 2 VOTES FOR SECOND CHOICE[/b]

Also Frycek gave us a great site that lists the level of difficulty of many famous piano compositions.

http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/Graded_Pieces_All.pdf


Kathleen

For reference, according to the Piano World Graded Piano Repertoire guide:

Waltz in C#, Op 69, #1 is a grade 7
Waltz in Ab, Op 64, #2 is a grade 7
Waltz in F minor Op 70, #2 is a grade 6

(Raindrop is Grade 7)

Two more suggestions from me:
either of the Op 55 nocturnes:

Op 55/1 Nocturne in F
Op 55/2 Nocturne in Bb

Both are heartbreakers and rated grade 7.

This is a link to the Piano World Graded Repertoire. It's surprising how many of Chopin's pieces are grade 7 or occasionally lower. There's a lot for us to chose from.

http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/Graded_Pieces_All.pdf

THANK YOU, Frycek! Great information!

I find it so hard to believe that the Raindrop is rated on the same level as the C# waltz. While the Db prelude wasn't exactly easy, the waltz sounds so much more difficult.

Also wonderful to know that the other suggestions are on the same level. I, for one, would be content to stay on level 7 for a while until I feel comfortable going to the next level. Taking on a piece too difficult at this point would only add to my frustration level, which, at times, is very low.

Thank you, also, for that repertoire site. It will be invaluable to many of us.

I will add your suggestions to the original post. I've yet to play a nocturne and will listen to both today.

Kathleen

I'd love to do a nocturne and the 55/1 looks good to me so that's my first vote. (I had been thinking 9/3 but it's really long). I'm also willing to give the c# waltz a try so that's my #2 vote.

I just printed out the 55/1, and it does look doable for me. I will add your vote for it to the original post and the C# and the second.

Right now I have to go the Best Buy to purchase another scanner/copier. My old one is incompatible with my laptop.

I printed out several of the compositions mentioned, but the notes are so small, I can barely read them. I need to blow them up 150% (where am I going to get that size paper...ugh?)

Hey, I can't find the Ab Op. 64 #2. Do you mean #3?

Kathleen

Don't do the C# Minor Waltz, because I wouldn't be able to stop myself from joining that group, and joining another group would really tax my resources right now .

Jeff, you have to learn to control yourself!! :p

Kathleen

I'll vote for the 55/1. I've never played a Chopin nocturne, and that one is beautiful.

Well, group, so far it looks like Nocturne 55/1 is in the lead with 3 votes (Frycek suggested 1 and/or 2, but since I received two other votes for the 55/1, I am putting Frycek's vote in for #1...I hope that's O.K.)

The C# got one vote with 2 as second choice.

I am withdrawing my suggestion from the "race," but am still undecided ...either the C# or the 55/1. I am going to listen to both again tonight, then look at the music and should be ready with my decision by tomorrow.

This is fun. I feel like that guy who announces horse races....

" and they're coming around...down to the home stretch.... and it's Nocturne 55/1 in the lead by three lengths, slowly pulling ahead, but C# is closing in fast, and it's going to be a close one, folks. Hold on to your tickets; it could be a photo finish!"

I know. I need to get a life. People have been telling me that for years.

Oh, Peyton...are you voting?

Kathleen

Yes, I voted in my previous post. 1st choice is the Nocturne and second is the waltz.

Hi.I am just getting back to playing the piano. I started a nursing refresher course in February, then started a job in June- I will be part-time in September. My vote is for the Waltz Op.69, No. 1.

In my Paderewski edition, Op.55 No.1 is in f Minor and Op.55 No.2 is in E flat Major.

I might be interested in the 55/2, but probably not the 55/1.

Mel

Sorry Mel, I got those keys from the the download site. The Bb is a typo (it's Eb.) Both titles appear to be abreviated for space. The Paderewski is correct of course.
http://www.classicalarchives.com/chopin.html

Well, I got very confused about the Opus numbers on the waltzes and left out some information. I hope it's all correct now. Check out page 4 of this thread. I've added the number of votes so far for each composition. (Let me know if there is an error somewhere.)

It was Jeff, not Peyton, whom I was asking about voting. Sorry.

Perhaps just one issue to which we might give some thought.

WHAT SHOULD WE DO[/b] if a certain composition gets the most votes, but others in the group don't like the piece or don't feel they have the skill level required?

Personally, I have no problem at all with learning whichever composition get the most votes. They're all beautiful and will present a real challenge to me, which is good (I guess.)

But I was thinking possibly of those who just might not want to learn the piece chosen. We certainly can't MAKE them go along. Nor would we want to.

I guess what I am trying to say (and not very successfully) is just how "binding" to we want to be. Is it all for one? Or would we consider splitting off into different sub-groups?

Any thoughts on the matter?


Kathleen

Hi Kathleen, thanks for thinking of me. I'll abstain from casting a vote this time since I feel I'm up to my elbows with what I'm already working on (and, doggonit, I'm still on the first page of the Raindrop...yes, I'm that slow ) ...but if I may, I might still participate, depending on what you guys select.

I suspect Chopin Groups might be around for a while. Perhaps I can jump in when you guys study the pieces that really appeal to me.

I think we could have "subgroups" on this same thread. I think any one of us would be willing to try to help another member out with whatever problem he's having whether we're actually working on that piece or not. It would be a way to educate, pique interest in different compositions and bond all at the same time, a way of allowing our diversity to bring us together instead of separating us.

Jeff: Good to hear from you. I have you pictured as being buried under a ton of sheet music, waving a little white flag. That first page of the prelude (IMHO) is the most difficult. The middle section is so loud that if you hit a wrong note, no one will notice, but that first page...has to be perfect. So no need to apologize...slow and steady wins the race. Join us when you can, and yes, I hope we will be around for a long time. There's a lot of Chopin music out there.

Frycek: My thoughts, exactly.

Kathleen

For Future Reference:

I found this on a thread on the Pianist Corner. Thought it could be useful.

*******************************
I found these interesting Chopin created by a guy called Alan Chan. From easiest to hardest, in the major compositional forms...

24 Preludes
7, 20, 4, 6, 2, 15, 21, 11, 9, 17, 13, 10, 23, 3, 14, 1, 18, 5, 12, 19, 22, 24, 8, 16

51 Marzukas
5, 9, 43, 4, 47, 11, 41, 18, 6, 44, 45, 49, 14, 31, 16, 8, 12, 39, 14, 42, 22, 46, 24, 19, 34, 15, 20, 50, 25, 36, 3, 2, 1, 27, 10, 48, 40, 29, 7, 37, 30, 23, 28, 17, 13, 21, 26, 32, 33, 38, 51

14 Waltzes
12, 9, 3, 10, 7, 8, 6, 13, 11, 14, 4, 5, 1, 2

4 Ballades
3, 1, 2, 4

4 Scherzos
2, 4, 3, 1

I would say the easiest pieces are:

Waltz in a minor op. posth
Waltz in Eb major op. posth. (the very short one entiteld: Klavierstucke)
Waltz in a minor op. 34 no. 2
Prelude op. 28 no. 4
Prelude op. 28 no. 7
Prelude op. 28 no. 20
Some mazurkas, maybe:
Mazurka in C major, op. 7 no. 5
Mazurka in F major, op. posth. 68 no. 3 & 4

Furthermore small pieces like:
Cantabile in B flat
Largo in E flat
Contredanse


Kathleen

I HIGHLY suggest you all one day work on Chopin's Tarentelle Op. 43 in Aflat major. It is incredible... and good group activity... and as in all classical tarentelles I've encountered, it's divided in to obvious sections so it will be easy for you all to stay together. And of course... the music is incredible and it's a very catchy piece.

E-mail or IM me and I can hook you up with an mp3. At the very least, you all NEED to hear this piece if you haven't already.

Oh and by the way... (I feel like I've asked this already, but I can't find the post anywhere) which Waltz in C# minor are you guys looking at again? 64 or 69? I have a recording of 64 but not 69.

I'm pretty much up for trying to learn what ever the group choses. I have a pretty loaded bunch of pieces I'm working on right now but it would be fun to do one with a group. As far as sub groups go...if that's what the majority wants that's fine with me but as many are still working on the raindrop (I'll be working on that for many weeks to come) I would think we would not want to split up into too many groups? Kathleen, like you, whatever we pick will be a real challange for me as well. I had a big head start on the Raindrop so it will be fun to start from scratch on a new one. Both the nocturne and the waltz do not look easy and I know I'll be on either one for months and months.

Chobussy, I didn't know Chopin wrote a Tarentella. I'd like to hear it.

i suggest the right hand of Opus 10/1

it's a fantastic exercise.. great for sight reading skills and will improve your facility, articulation and accuracy immensely.

plus it's gorgeous.

very doable at a slow pace..

Op.64 No.2 is in c# minor.

Op.69 No.1 is in A flat and 69/2 is in b minor.

So it's the 64/2 we're looking at.

And isn't that Tarantella the piece that injured your wrist?

Mel

Mel

Kathleen, since we're voting on 4 pieces, maybe we should take the top 2 and let everybody vote on which of the 2 they would like to play.

Sort of like a runoff election.

This way, everyone would vote for one of the 2 pieces and we would get a more concentrated and focused group decision.

Mel

Noooooo...


I suggest it anyway... we can work together to prevent any injuries.

But yes (for who ever asked)... Chopin wrote one tarentelle... and it's a masterpiece. Very rare... sheet music-wise, and general people-ever-hearing-of-it-wise. I ordered the sheet music in a book somewhere in Europe (Germany I believe). I adore it, it's wonderful. I'd really like all of you to hear it. I guess I'll host it on my site for you all to hear. Promise me you'll all listen!

http://www.tehmoosecaboose.com/mp3s/Chopin - Tarantella in A flat major op.43.MP3 (copy and paste, don't click)

Edit: Good lord. I checked out that piano difficulty guide... and seeing those 10s scare the crap outa me! I gotta check to see if I have recordings of any of those.

I've just played through the 55.1 Chopin Nocturne and heartily support the choice ... there was I having spent the weekend brushing up on Mazurkas 6.1 and 7.1 (breathtaking new territory for me) so as to steal a march on all those wild and wanton party-indulgent cohorts ... only to be brushed aside by an apparent majority vote for the Nocturne ... am feeling very put down and need a hug!

The Nocturne is a knockout ... my reference book says this of it

"Youthful aspirants to concert fame have played this number at so many debuts that it is popularly known as the "Prodigy Nocturne". In truth it is suitable for a talented child (pardon me!), though grownups need not disdain its charm (hope for us oldies yet!).

As the waggish Peter Ustinov used to say " Just thought you ought to know".

I think these little "child prodigy's" should be banned!!! The last thing I need after slaving and sweating over a piece for a year and still not "have it down" is to hear some little chubby 8 year old who's feet can barely touch the pedals slam through the thing like a walk in the park.

(That's admirable that you have already played through the nocturne. That middle part sounds like a real bear. Maybe we should ban you too. )

goofed

I guess I'll give it my vote. It sounds right up my alley. At 53, I'm probably the world's oldest living "talented child." (well "child" anyway).

You all better have listened to that tarentelle!

You know, that book I received from Germany that has the music for the tarentelle in it actually has several other unique/rare Chopins. One's the bacerole... along with a handful of others that I can't remember because I'm not home. I think there's also a "berrrrrucuseee" or something. Something with a B that's not a bacerole.

I thought I was confused before??

Now what's happening?

Are we going to take the two top "winners" and sub-group from there?

Are we going to also play a tarentelle?

Are we going to practice the right hand of that etude?

Or have we decided on the Nocturne 55/1?

Or are the suggestions for the tarentelle and the etude, merely that? Suggestions for improving technical skills and/or enrichment and music appreciation.

I'll let you all get back to me on the above. Whatever the general consensus is, is OK with me. However, we haven't heard from everyone yet. Pianolina is still out there...who else have I missed?

And, as I mentioned before, anything is fine with me. But, I know I will be at the piano for 6 hours a day if I am going to try to fit everything in (also Clair de lune and an easy Bach plus polishing the Db prelude and two mazurakas, not to mention Rach's variation on a theme from Paginni).

Chopin would have a fit!!

I think we need to get back to our original goal. To chose between the pieces mentioned on thread 4.

But perhaps it is now down to the C# minor waltz, Op. 64/2 and the Nocturne 55/1. Am I right in assuming this?

And, am I correct in assuming that the other suggestions (tarentelle and etude) are for gaining some technical skills and/or enrichment?

There's no hurry here, I think. We can take another week or so to decide. As Peyton said (I think it was Peyton), whichever piece we chose will take months and months for me. Yeah, those middle parts of both the waltz and nocturne will either make or break me, I'm sure).

Comments please.

I CANNOT HANDLE a level 10 at this point. So please be kind.

Kathleen

I mentioned the tarentelle as a suggestion for something to work on after all this stuff is done. But I would be very pleased if you all took it up now... I could help you all along. Please do consider it now. But you all seem to have a general idea of what you want, so stick with that. Like I said, the tarentelle would be a good group activity.

I'm really just bringing it up to let you all know about how fantastic it is, seeing as you're all Chopin fans. I thought this would be a good place to bring it up.

Thanks, Dave. I think we can all agree that it would be a beautiful piece to work on as a group activity...after we've finished with our current project.

If I'm wrong in this assumption, Cohorts, please let me know.

Kathleen

http://www.sheetmusicarchive.net/

one can download 2 free pieces from the above site under Chopin.. in the miscellaneous sublist.

it's presto, has left hand jumped triplets, chords in 9ths.

not an easy piece at all..

Which piece?

tarantelle - the original opus 43 - 6 pages or so

"has left hand jumped triplets, chords in 9ths"

I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about. Do you have any measures? And what do you mean by "in 9ths"? Like... chords with their 9ths played?

I posted a little mini one-line vote for the 55/1 on the last page. Looking bac, the post is so small that it would be easy to miss.

I like the C# minor waltz very much, but I already have the technical aspects in place. There's still work to be done on it - The musicality is not fully there yet and I haven't settled on an interpretation. But still, my first choice is to work on something completely new.

sorry - i don't have the best musical vocabulary

left hand jump triplets - the first two notes of the left hand triplet accompaniment, often span more than 10 white keys. (i have to jump them)

9ths.. chords within a span of 9 keys..

So are you starting the tarentelle, apple*?

Kathleen... if we get more people... well, maybe the subgroups are a good idea then. But let's just wait a little longer and get the concent from others.

Maybe we can divide it up... beginners group, intermediate, and then advanced doing the waltz, or nocturne, or tarentelle.

no... but i would love to work on some Chopin if i had the time.. i've got my own compulsions to work on..

I'm sorry, Pianolina, I did get your vote for the Nocturne.

As I was trying to unconfuse myself while reading through the threads, I realized that I had forgotten about Mel's suggestion that we just vote on the top 2.

They are the C#m waltz, Op 64/2
Nocturne in Fm 55/1

The Nocturne seems to be in the lead at this point. But the waltz is a very close second.

However, both Mel and qtpi indicated other choices. But if they are willing to reconsider, then perhaps we can make a final decision. If either are dead set against the nocturne or waltz, we'll try to work something out. Perhaps another composition that both Mel and qtpi would like. Whatever.

So we need to hear from Mel and qtpi (and Dave). Dave, are you going to vote on either of the two compositions mentioned?

I'm not ignoring your suggestion about the tarentelle. Perhaps sometime in the future. From the way you describe it (a level 10?), I think it might be a very long time in the future (at least for me.)

Kathleen

With respect, the Chopin Waltz 64.2 might be biting off more than we can chew at this stage.
The three bursts of 16 measure "piu mosso" will test any concert pianist's nifty fingering to the
limit... lest some of the cohorts lose heart with the sheer pace of these helter-sketlter
finger gymnastics, it might be wise to delay an onslaught on this gem.

The Andante op.55, no. 1 Chopin Nocturne in F minor (4 flats) is plain sailing for 56 measures ... before a tricky 12 measure dialogue between a rhythmic LH outline carrying a blocky treble chord pattern ... a triplet cascade and bridge over 4 measures brings and echo of the main theme for 4 measures ... followed by 8 measures of fancy fingering with a serrated treble ... closed with two pyramidal romps over 4 measures ... and then a steady upward climb over 6 measures to reach a repeated keyboard topmost F over 4 measures ... two chords and four arpeggios close the Nocturne.

Put my vote down for the nocturne. I've got a complete set of the nocturnes, but I've only learned one, so it's time...

...what he said.

MaryAnna: Welcome. I'll put you down for the Nocturne.

btb: Thank you so much for your in-depth analyses of both compositions. What are you saying? That the waltz would be almost impossible for us? And that you are voting for the Nocturne (while not a walk in the park is doable)? I like the idea that the first 56 measures being smooth sailing. I need some smooth sailing for a while.

Peyton: I take it you are voting for the Nocturne also. Right?

From what I have been able to glean from all the threads, I think it's the Nocturne in Fm 55/1.

Let me know if I am wrong.

Otherwise, we're all at the starting gate, and I've just fired the "starting shot."

I'll wait a couple of days, then I am going to start a new topic post. (Should we give it a new name...perhaps Chopin's Nocturne 55/1?)

I think it wise because it will just be devoted to suggestions, questions, problems, and concerns with playing this particular piece. Not all the pre-stuff we went through in making our decision.

And btb, I am going to rely heavily on both you and Frycek to answer questions. It's clear to me that both of you are more qualified than I to be the "co-pilots" and I can just sit back and put everything on autopilot.

As I did in the Raindrop group, I think we'll start off with the choice of transcriptions best to use. I know you can get one free from the Internet, but some of you might already have one that you like. Whatever. But, that issue will be number one on the new topic post. And secondly, I post a recording (the only one I have is by Vladimir Ashkenazy). I think most of us can agree he's the "creme de la creme." And from there, perhaps to count the measures and write them in, so we are all on the same page, so to speak. After that... we'll take it as it comes.

Cheers to everyone. We're on our way.

Kathleen

Yep, I pick the nocturne.

Hmmmm... I highly doubt the tarentelle is a level 10. But wouldn't you know quite how difficult it might be if you listened to it when you stated it was "beautiful"? ;-)

Anyways... I'd love to sign up for a piece to play... but as you can see in my sig I already have quite a lot. And Once on This Island counts for a dozen or so songs itself. Sorry, maybe another day.

I know... I might participate when I come back from the Coast and my musical is finished. Keep me in mind, I may still be up.

Good luck. We will keep you in mind.

Kathleen

Just a tip for those with bad eyesight.

When I printed out the Nocturne and Clair de lune, I realized there was no way I could read those notes easily plus try to write in my fingering.

So I called Kinko's and they only charge 18 cents per page to blow it up to an 11x14. Then I am going to paste the sheet on a heavy type paper so they will stand up on the piano shelf.

Kathleen

How is the Lune? Keep us updated.

Sorry for the double.

But... I've always known the C# Waltz based on its main melody, but I've honestly never listened to the entire piece. Now I have, and I do enjoy it... especially that base line.

Anyone got a copy of the nocturne?

There was a time...when I could actually flub my way through the C# minor waltz....what a BLAST it was to "play" this incredibly impressive waltz! I would butcher it now, for sure, but would love to revive it, learn the parts I didn't have down very well, and generally polish it up.

If/when you cohorts get together on this one, please hunt me down if I'm not around. I would not want to miss out on that one.

I love the waltz also. IT IS SO CHOPIN!!

EVERYONE recognizes it when it's played. That could be a good thing or a bad thing (depending on how well or how poorly we play it).

If I can get through the Nocturne and the Lune, I will definitely be ready to learn the waltz.

PS I haven't even started on the Lune yet. There are three measures in the Db prelude that I have to "get down."

Then, when I can play it through without too many mistakes, I going to make myself a T-shirt. Boy, will I ever have earned it.

My avatar picture will be on the upper left side (not too big) , underneath: I LOVE CHOPIN! Then a couple of small red hearts under that.

OK, back to that prelude.

Kathleen

Where are you diligently working on currently in the prelude? Which measures?

Chopin & Debussy / Johnny Depp & ????

My favorite. Chopin at 19. He was already a successful composer, he was still with his family in Poland, he was as healthy as he ever was, he was in love. It's one of the very few portrayals in which he looks even remotely happy.

A great picture, Frycek: I've never seen it before.

But I still like my avatar. As Mary Anna says: He looks studly!!

Kathleen

:D

Oy vey!

Mary Anna

Kathleen... I asked you a question!

Frycek... that is Tim Burton. He's made a handful of movies with Depp such as Edward Scissorhands, Ed Wood, Sleepy Hollow, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Corpse Bride... and soon to be Sweeny Todd (the quirky musical that just recently won a Tony for "best revival").

Mary Anna,

You have some explaining to do!

What? You don't think ol' Fred was a ladykiller in his day?

Of course, for those who don't go for the consumptive, tortured type...maybe JS Bach would be a good choice. He looks well-fed and happy in all the portraits I've seen.

Chobussy,
Please dump the pictures that go with insistent
schoolgirl asides... they clutter the content of
a thread devoted to the study of the Chopin Nocturne 55.1.

Hear that Cousin Mary Anna? We're a couple of giggling schoolgirls!

Actually, I agree Chopin was handsome in his way. I go for thin men with interesting bones in their faces. I had a crush on Michael Rennie (The Day the Earth Stood Still) when I was a kid. I actually LIKE Chopin's nose that he hated so much.

(Actually Johnny Depp could do tortured consumptive very well - think "Edward Scissorhands"- - As for well fed and happy, Handel always looks like the cat who stole the cream)

Tim Burton is a genius.

Hmmm... btb... that is not my fault (did you rate me 4 stars because of that?). But if the general consensis is to remove the images in my signature, I will do so.

But until then... girls... control yourselves! (Frycek you're right Tim is a genius!) (Oh, and Depp does have those weird cheek bones, in my opinion, too... they're especially noticable with him as Willy Wonka)

Let's stay on topic. We can always continue this conversation through PMs... or IMs if you adults are "hip with that." Or even a general discussion forum here.

I am disappointed to find that in my expansive collection of Chopin recordings, I cannot find this particular nocturne. Can anyone help me out?

What is the current tally Kathleen?

Johnny Depp would have played a better Chopin that Hugh Grant. :rolleyes:

By the way...I bet Clara Shumann was a babe!

Frycek: I had a crush on Michael Reine also. My girlfried and I actually memorized that command he would give to his robot: Glot...nicto...something. That was a long time ago.

I also like Lawrence Harvey. Same hollow checks. And Montgomery Cliff. And Leslie Howard (now, he would have made the ultimate Chopin). Well, I could go on and on, but I don't think the guys would be too thrilled.


What question did you ask me, Dave? I got lost somewhere in all these threads. I can send you a copy of the nocturne via an upload, but I wonder if it will work, since it is so long.

Too bad. I tried uploading my copy so you could download, but I got an error message. I'm sure you can go on a Chopin site and hear it.

If worse comes to worse, I'll record in on a CD and send it to you. Let me know.

Unless I am jumping the gun, we have decided on the Nocturne in F minor, 55/1.

Is that right, everyone?

I agree that Depp would portray a
great[/b] Chopin. He is just the right size and could bring out all those mysterious qualities of Chopin. Only he could bring out that "studly" feature while, and at the same time, the sensitive and private side. Also, Chopin knew how to have a good time; he was a great mimic. I can see Depp doing that. He's so quirky!

Let's all send him a letter and ask that he find a decent movie script (or I can work on one myself) that would do justice to Chopin's life. AND this movie HAS to leave out George Sand. I amm soooo sick of her. However, if necessary, she can have a 5 minute part. But whoever plays her part has to be short and dumpy because that's what she looked like. Go figure her allure!!

Hey, Chopin certainly was a lady-killer. While not as obvious as Liszt (now he was a big heart-throb...who ended up as a monk), there were many women who would swoon a Chopin's concerts. Perhaps it was not the man himself who brought out all this emotion, but his music. But whoever was capable of creating such beauty must have attracted many beautiful women. But, alas, he was so shy. However, he did end up with THE most notorious woman of her day. Go figure on that one!!

I've got lots to do today, so I'm signing off until tomorrow.

Kathleen

Okay Kathleen, have a nice day.

But really, you are right... Depp would be a great Chopin. I can see him speaking almost like Edward Scissorhands... quiet, timid, reserved.

I'll contact Burton for you guys to have him start a script for a movie.

Chobussy, I think btb was just kidding.
Chobussy, lighten up.
btb, learn to use smilies.

I don't know...George Sand was just too bizzare to leave out of a good Chopin movie. And let's face it...their relationship was a big part of Chopin's life. Was she really dumpy? Man, I kinda pictured her as a babe too... :p

(So who plays Liszt in this movie?)

She was short and a little plump. About the size of Gillian Anderson if she wore a size 14. Even at 5'7" Chopin would've towered over her. She had beautiful black eyes and hair, otherwise she was only moderately attractive. She was one of those women who could look pretty good from the right angle, pretty plain from the wrong one. I think Chopin was partial to brunettes. His one time Polish fiancee Maria was part Italian and had the same coloring.

They're making a video game based on Chopin... I believe a movie should be next.

I've heard that. Now my question is, WHY?

From what I've seen of video games, I can't imagine how Chopin could possibly be considered for such a project. Don't the kids want action, blood and gore?

I thoroughly confused.

I hope this works. It is a sound track of the nocturne as played by Ashkenazy.


Chopin Nocturne in f minor 55/1


I listened; it works!! A great recording of a magnificient piece. OUR NEW CHALLENGE!!

Kathleen

It is a beautiful nocturne.

I almost wish though, in that recording, that the player did a little less rubato and fit the graces in the time more. He/she stretches them out, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, I just wonder how it'd sound in a more waltzy time with less rubato.

Kathleen, here's a link to the discussion of the game a couple of weeks ago on the Pianist Corner. As you can see, it's not so much blood & guts as fantasy role playing.

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/2/12337.html

For Peyton: George Sand at her best - about the time she met Chopin. Her actual name was Aurore Dupin. Chopin always called her Aurora.

[img]http://www.tinkersviews.com/george6.bmp[/img]

Thanks Frycek for the picture of Aurore Dupin (Sand) at her best ... this is the image which I must have carried all these years until I recently picked up a book published within living memory of Chopin ... with a very different view of the lady novelist ... please excuse the heady language at times ... the book came with posh wavy-edged pages (very arty!!).

"We know that Chopin was dainty, neurotic, tender as a woman, dreamy, slim of frame; a man whose whole appearance made those who saw him think of the convovuli, which, on the slenderest of stems, balance divinely coloured chalices of such vaporous tissues that the slightest touch destroys them.

Contrast this with George Sand. To begin with, she was not pretty.
Liszt speaks of her "masculine countenance".
De Musset says she was "brown, pale, and dull complexioned".
Others describe her as short and stout, dark and swarthy, with " a thick and unshapely nose of the Hebraic cast, a coarse mouth, and a small chin."

Balzac the novelist, wrote that her dominant chateristics were those of a man; that she was "not to be regarded as a woman."
We know that she often wore men's clothes, and as often smoked "enormously thick Trabucco cigars". Chopin was very doubtful about her when first introduced. "What a repellant woman that Sand is!" he remarked to Ferdinand Hiller.

Yet this woman who, according to most of the biographers, broke Chopin's heart and directly caused his early death.
As Liszt put it, she "inspired the frail and delicate Chopin with an intensity of admiration which consumed him, as a wine too spiritous shatters a fragile vase."

I'm sure to face Hell-fire for the above defamatory revelation. What smiley do I use F?

I realize it's a flattering portrait and I haven't seen the bad ones, but I like the way George Sand looks. Her strong features suit the personality of a woman strong enough to take on a man's name and compete in a man's world. Our tastes in beauty have changed over the years to something less insipid. (Really, what is wrong with her nose?). No wonder her talent and intensity fascinated him.

George Sand tended to polarize people who knew her and Chopin. Those descriptions of her were written with malice by Chopin partisans. They are quite a contrast to ones written earlier. After she dumped Chopin she caught an awful lot of flak and kept trying to justify herself at his expense. (She was one of those people who always have to feel themselves in the right.) Chopin didn't do much to balance the situation. He kept silent to all but his most intimate friends and only gave them the occasional cryptic indication of what he was going through. He kept a little silk wallet containing a lock of her hair on his person until the very end. I have a very simple feminine take on the break up. Sand was overwrought and exhaused. She was having horrendous troubles with her daughter, and her son, with her finances, and with her brother who was drinking himself to death, and her political activites were reaching a crisis. She snapped. At the time of his "dismissal" Chopin was already in the process of dying and I'm sure he knew it. He was showing unmistakable symptoms of the pulmonary related heart failure which was actually to kill him. He had had a very serious crisis immediately before the breakup. I believe he did no more to seek a reconciliation than he (apparently) did because he felt it was beneath his dignity to try to "crawl back" to a woman who had seemingly tired of him only to die.

Re men's clothing - that started as a conveniece when she was very poor, and continued intermittently for comfort and fun. She could be quite fashionable and Chopin often picked out fabric for her dresses. She was far from being the Tugboat Annie some people like to visualize. She was of noble birth and had been very well educated. (She actually spoke English btw.) She was described as quite ladylike in her manners, and soft voiced. Her most "masculine" trait was her intellect. She also had a great sense of humor which probably appealed to Chopin.

Frankly, I've got nothing against her looks at all myself. She was handsome rather that a raving beauty. I doubt the portrait is "flattering" so much as "lucky." Like a "good" photograph which catches the right expression and angle. I think it was her warmth, wit and intellect that captivated Chopin.

Ironic FYI - I lived in the language hall at college with a bunch of French exchange students. They referred to me as "George Sand."

While we're on the subject:

I am not a member of this group, but as an aside from a observer, humans tent to attack that which baffles or threatens them. Everyone wanted a piece of Chopin and his time with her was lost to all others, therefore she was a threat, and, in an era when women were not considered intellegent creatures (boy, haven't we really grown as a spieces?) , she was therefore a threat on two levels. She strikes me at the Oko of her day, blamed for everything, including his death. Orson Welles said "the first man to raise his fist is the first man to run out of ideas". The first man to attack superificial, obvious "targets" is the first man to admit he has met his better. I hate personal meaningless attacks, but if you don't agree with me, then you must be ugly.....

The Oko of her day - -very interesting - very perceptive - -

These descriptions make Sand sound a bit more "studly" than Chopin.

I think that "Ono of her day" sounds like a very good take.

:D Funny, Peyton.

What ever happened to that term "stud muffin?" I sort of like it.

The pictures are great. Where do you get them? I thought I had read every book on Chopin out there. But I've never come across many of those portraits. I guess I have a few hundred more books to read.

My personal view about George Sand (if anyone cares) is based on what I have read and some deep-seated emotions I have about love and respect and loyalty. And just common decency.

I am not denying that she cared for Chopin (I think initially some of this "caring" had to do with getting that "feather in her cap,", so to speak). Afterall he was the RAGE of his day.

I also believe she took good care of him, as she could be a very nurturing person. However, her nuturing stopped with her daughter. Solange was very head-strong (like her mother), and Sand obviously favored her son, Maurice. Sand actually brought into her household a distant young cousin (or daughter of a cousin) and treated her as a daughter. Now...this shows to me that Sand could be very cruel and mean-spirited.

I don't know if any of you have daughters, but it's a fairly well-accepted fact that there is a strong competition going on between mother and daughter, and, as intelligent as Sand was, she couldn't see Solange's bad and rebellious behavior for what it was. Just a plea for recognition and affection from her mother. And to bring another young girl (really a stranger) into the household and shower her with the love and affection that Solange so sorely needed...well, that was a heartbreaker for both Solange and for Chopin, who knew Solange as a little girl and as a young woman. He cared for her as a daughter.

For all Sand's good qualities (and I know she had many), she could be very small-minded and obstinate and jealous and fickle. Not to mention malicious. The book she wrote, which was thinly veiled as their relationship was unbelievably cruel and degrading to Chopin.

I am grateful to her for taking such good care of Chopin for so many years. To say that she was the inspiration for so many of his compositions during this time is a little naive. She provided him with a beautiful and peaceful (for the most part) atmosphere.

This was the most instrumental factor and most conducive to his being able to create what he did during those years. And much of what he wrote then had been already started from a previous time. It is strange that he did not dedicate ANY of his compositions to her. I wonder why.

But she did not throw him out, as so many people think. He made the decision to leave. He saw the writing on the wall (that she had grown tired of him). He also was sickened by her treatment of her daughter and her son. When she knew he was leaving, she made no effort to stop him.

That he loved her, there can be no doubt. When you live with someone for nine years and that person takes care of you and provides for your every need, how can you not help but love them?

I guess the reason for my disdain for the woman is the fact that, at the time he needed her the most...when he was getting very ill, she, for lack of a better word, abandoned him. She broke his heart. And, this will always be what prompts me to dislike her so.

Well, if you read this so far...I congratulate you for your perseverance and interest.

Kathleen

After we've all vented our fury (or not) ... for my part, one of my weaknesses is making off-the-cuff caricatures ... it's only when my ruthless 6B has exhausted it's brief chase do I realise the harsh images lying in the sub-conscious.

But back to the real world ... how far has anybody got with the Nocturne 55.1? Hope I'm not the tail-end Charlie.

No, btb. You are not the tail-end. I just started playing through the first page. Not too difficult, but I have questions about the trills.

As I promised, I am starting a new topic post today, called Chopin Nocturne Study Group. From this new post, we'll proceed to ask questions, address concerns, etc.

Kathleen

Started???? We've started aleady???!!!

Now listen, Frycek, you're not kidding anyone.

You're probably all done.

Kathleen

Seriously, I've never played this nocturne. I haven't even looked at the music. (I know I've got it -but I haven't actually looked at it yet.) I still haven't even finished Raindrop - (last 1/2 of the storm which I haven't practiced at all.) My own fault. I got wrapped up with that exerpt from the Scherzo.

Of course, I was just pulling your leg. With your busy schedule, I don't know how you fit anything in.

What scherzo are you speaking of? Wow,,, a scherzo sounds really difficult.

I'm still trying to polish that 9th reach near the end of the prelude. I did a little creative splitting, and it doesn't sound too bad. However, with all the new finger changes, I've got at least 5+ hours of work, just on those three measures to get them to sound less choppy.

If someone would have told me a few months ago that I would get this prelude back, I would have laughed at them. No way! I just can't it's me playing. But there's no one else in the house, so it must be me. My dog is not that talented (actually, she's not talented at all). Unbelievable.

Please take your time. We want this to be fun (huh??), not something you feel hanging over your head like bucket of water.

I know you will find the nocturne relatively easy (once you find the time to get to it). That's the first 55 measures. After that, it's like the storm and thunder section of the prelude only it doesn't go on as long (there is a God in heaven). But it sounds much more difficult, with lots of runs and 10 note trills (my very favorite things ).

I'm truly fortunate that I have absolutely no obligations (except for feeding the dog), so I can devote as much time as I can sit on that bench. When I put in more than 3 hours, my back complains very loudly the next day, and I'm walking around like the Hunchback of Notre Dame.

So please don't even think about the Nocturne. When the time comes...it will come. Taking care of yourself is certainly more important.

I'm thinking about it as a nice Christmas present to myself, hoping it's this Christmas not next. :rolleyes:

Kathleen

Re exerpt from the Scherzo - the Jesus Lullaby portion from Scherzo no 1 op 20.

Oh, yes. That one. So beautiful.

This is a different one from the song sung in the movie C: DFL. He kept having dreams about his childhood's Christmases and they were singing a song. Or is this the same song?

It sounded different to me. I'm confused.

Kathleen

It sounds different to William as well. Maybe they are totatlly different songs. At any rate they're both beautiful. (Though I found several different versions of the carol itself so who knows.) At any rate the quest led me to the jewel embedded in the Scherzo so I'm content. Did you notice how much they used "your" posthumous waltz as background music?

Hi Frycek:

We desparetly need your help in resizing some pictures on the Nocturne thread. I know you did it once with mine, but I forgot how to do it. When you get a chance, we'd appreciate it as it is distorting everything.

Yes, I did notice (how could I not help to) how the A minor waltz was played throughout that movie. I was thrilled and surprised because it is not that well-known. They usually play his Nocturne in Eb or his Etude in Eb.

I still say that your Christmas carol reminds me slightly of the melody in the second line of Santa Lucia. Below is a TERRIBLE midi playing of the song. See if you can hear a resemblance.

Santa Lucia

Kathleen

Dear Raindrops:

Yeah...I know, corny! :rolleyes:

I was planning on making the three T-shirts today. But, alas, we was invited to the 3rd birthday party for my great neice.

So, tomorrow, I am going to start with making mine (I haven't made any for a while and need to practice). I will then take a picture of it with my digital camera (I finally found it), so all can see my (ahem..) handiwork.

Then I will start making the three other shirts for people who have requested one. I just want to be sure, I haven't left anyone out.

Peyton
MaryAnna
Pianolina

Those are the three. Please, please tell me if you should be added to the list.

I have the addresses and general instructions on what you all want on your shirt.

Let's hope they turn out good enough to wear them proudly to the mall.

And remember, if you have the capability to take a picture of yourself wearing it, please do. It doesn't have to be a digital. A hard copy sent to me will be fine. I can then scan it and show it on the site for all to see.

It's just a strong suggestion. If you don't want to, that's fine. I am still working up the nerve to have a picture taken of me wearing mine. I need to get my hair done and maybe a few shots of Botox before I make my final decision.

Have a great day and be thinking of me in a house filled with 3-4 year olds, running around screaming and destroying everything in sight.

Kathleen