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#1005822 - 11/24/08 09:31 PM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10405
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Orez Eno,

To a certain extent, YOU control the kind of commentary you receive. You will get the kind of comments you ask for. Ask for detailed comments and perhaps suggest things that might be troubling you about your own work. See what you get.

The problem in general, however, is that this is a large and diverse group. I don't think people only want to be patted on the back. People who have asked for critical commentary have said so on the entrance form. On the other hand, there is always a risk in offering suggestions for change if you're not sure the person truly wants that kind of feedback.

You might indeed be better off placing your recordings in the "Member Recordings" section, or asking for direct comments in the Pianist Corner (if they are still taking this sort of request).
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#1005823 - 11/24/08 09:33 PM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
Peyton Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2618
Loc: Maine
 Quote:
Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
SH,

I wouldn't dream of picking apart your words. \:D

What you say is perfectly sensible. In fact, it's the natural view to take as the recitals become essentially too large for meaningful commentary on all the works.

The ethos of the recitals could stand a review, as you note. There is no compulsion to comment on everything. Listening is enough! [/b]
Yea... but I wonder how many people would continue to post their recital pieces if absolutely no one commented on them. I bet we would lose half the participants. In fact... I bet we would eventually not even have a recital. Let's try it and see? Allow NO comments. Let's see how many people put in a piece. I would wager that most participants want to hear what others have to say about their work. (even if it is only a "Good Job".)
_________________________
"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
www.youtube.com/Biffer5
www.peytonart.com


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#1005824 - 11/24/08 09:35 PM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10405
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Yes, I'm sure you're right, Peyton, but you pose an extreme example. There is a gulf between not commenting at all and feeling compelled to comment on everything, no matter how banal the comment might be.
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#1005825 - 11/24/08 09:42 PM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
Peyton Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2618
Loc: Maine
Here is my honest opinion... I feel that most of us are posting because we want others to listen to what we have done and would really like to hear some feedback. Therefore I don't think it's too much to ask that everyone that participates at least comments on a few works. even if it's just five or six (there are over 60 participants.... so that's not asking a lot. There have got to be at least five works that the person likes enough to comment on. ) It seems selfish to me for people to post their work in the recital, get 20 or more people who take the time to listen and comment on that person's work and then to give back nothing.
_________________________
"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
www.youtube.com/Biffer5
www.peytonart.com


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#1005826 - 11/24/08 09:44 PM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10405
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
I buy that. Is that not happening currently? I haven't really stopped to figure out if a large fraction of the performers are saying nothing about the performances.
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#1005827 - 11/24/08 09:45 PM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
jotur Online   blank
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5636
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Ai yi yi -

True Confession Here: Guilt is not my strong point. So - sometimes I comment on all the pieces, and sometimes I - don't. May everyone come to the same point, at least about ABF recitals.

If someone wants to do some kind of personal rating system that's ok, but it does less for me than, as Mr. s-h suggests, having only a few folks but those who for whatever reason want to, comment on mine. Orez Eno - WHAT DO YOU MEAN I'M NOT ON YOUR MP3 PLAYER!!!! \:D \:D \:D \:D Oh, excuse the shouting \:D

I always mark my piece "no critical review." It *isn't* the point to me, and it's not my understanding that it's the primary purpose of the recital. You can always leave your piece open for critical review, but we don't have a strong history of that here. I check out that thread, but often the comments don't mean much to me.

For me the recital is another way of getting to know the ABF posters, to appreciate the music they play and what's important to them, to hear a piece, a composer, a style they really want to share. I read *all* the comments on the pieces, as someone else said, because I like seeing what I might have missed about a piece or style I'm not familiar with.

So - I'd rather keep it like it is. I love the free-for-all quality of it, of never knowing what the next piece will be, of having all the novices mixed in with the more experienced - all of the controlled chaos the ABF recital is. As someone said, there are other possibilities for more in depth critiques, whether in the Pianists Forum or the Members Recordings. For me, these recitals as they exist work.

Cathy
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#1005828 - 11/24/08 09:49 PM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
ohitpro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 104
Loc: Columbus, Ohio, USA
Here's my take on this as a first-timer...

I made brief comments on every piece because I felt like it was sort of a rookie's rite of recital bonding! It took alot of time to do that even if the comments were brief. I tried very hard to personalize them but, yes, 77 songs is a a big list (fabulous participation!) and the comments can end up seeming repetitive. Not sure if I will do that for next recital. I really appreciated the comments I received but don't feel at all slighted if someone skipped me in their comments.

One idea might be to somehow note in each performer's user profile with the number of ABF Recitals in which they've participated as sort of an identification but in now way should it indicate subjective skill or ability. We could even put it in our signature line or in the 'From:' line at the bottom of our posts or in the space below our avatars.

Just an idea and not sure if the forum software can even handle it.
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#1005829 - 11/24/08 10:04 PM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
jotur Online   blank
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5636
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
ohitpro - some folks put a medal for each recital they've participated in in their sig line, like Piano*Dad does.

Just to be clear - I have no problem with those who want to be critiqued marking that in their submission, and the discussion going on in that thread. It's just not the reason that *I* participate.

Cathy
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#1005830 - 11/24/08 10:11 PM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
Peyton Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2618
Loc: Maine
 Quote:
Originally posted by Piano*Dad:
I buy that. Is that not happening currently? I haven't really stopped to figure out if a large fraction of the performers are saying nothing about the performances. [/b]
The last recital less than half the participants commented. And I'll reiterate... I don't mean this as some kind of guilt thing... I see it as give and take. I love to get comments on my work. I would be a lier to say otherwise. I do not expect everyone to like or comment on my work. But I do think that all participants that want to get comments (and I think that is most) should be willing to give a few in return. If all 60 something participants did that the recital would be that much better. Just pick at least five or ten you feel like talking about and say something. I don't think that's asking a lot.

At the end of the last recital I named all those that had commented (and not just on my work) and gave them a special thanks. THEY are the ones that really help make the recitals special.
_________________________
"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
www.youtube.com/Biffer5
www.peytonart.com


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#1005831 - 11/24/08 10:33 PM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17809
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Well, now I'm feeling horrendously guilty, as I haven't commented on anybody's submission yet. I had intended to listen to the recital on the plane to SF, but the person in front of me reclined the whole way and my laptop wouldn't fit. \:\(

I do see the recitals as becoming so popular that it will be hard for most people to comment on everybody's piece. What I hope this does is spark a new norm that people comment on just a subset. I like Peyton's idea about just picking 5 or 10 and saying something. If you want a systematic "rule" for commenting so that it doesn't seem like you're playing favorites, we could always just say that if you have an even PW member number you comment on any of the even-numbered submissions you feel like, and similarly for the odd numbers.

I participate in the recitals because I'm egocentric and like people to listen to me play. \:\) I wouldn't participate if nobody listened to me, but it wouldn't bother me if nobody commented.

p.s. In case I don't get around to doing comments, let me just say that I loved your song, Peyton. It is indeed one of your best efforts, though I think I still like "Judging Distances" the best.
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#1005832 - 11/24/08 10:35 PM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4269
Loc: Arizona.
Peyton, your last sentence is very true in that no sport/activity would be the same without anyone to perform/play for. Every activity obviously needs participants but an audience can be equally as important if not more so in many ways.

In our case with the ABF recitals, the audience IS always there and many of the performers ARE personally acknowledged.

I FULLY agree with you that sometimes just a simple pat on the back can go further than you might expect.

I like your idea of everyone picking just a few performances to comment on. Possibly ones that you are familiar with or ones that blew you away.
Whatever the reasons, the potential problem is becoming overwhelmed with personally responding to everyone every time.

The flip side of the coin is for nobody to receive any comments at all. [Of course, this brings up the subject of "sympathy commenting" but one thing at a time!].

If the goal is to enjoy all the submissions at your own comfortable pace and then comment on a few select pieces, this can easily be accomplished. In fact, everyone wins.

Our recital participation is not limited in any way. Listeners can comment guilt free on the pieces they wish and participants can expect to receive several in depth meaningful replies.

This just makes too much sense not to do!

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#1005833 - 11/24/08 10:39 PM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
Peyton Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2618
Loc: Maine
 Quote:
Originally posted by Monica K.:
Well, now I'm feeling horrendously guilty, as I haven't commented on anybody's submission yet. I had intended to listen to the recital on the plane to SF, but the person in front of me reclined the whole way and my laptop wouldn't fit. \:\(

I do see the recitals as becoming so popular that it will be hard for most people to comment on everybody's piece. What I hope this does is spark a new norm that people feel commenting on just a subset. I like Peyton's idea about just picking 5 or 10 and saying something. If you want a systematic "rule" for commenting so that it doesn't seem like you're playing favorites, we could always just say that if you have an even PW member number you comment on any of the even-numbered submissions you feel like, and similarly for the odd numbers.

I participate in the recitals because I'm egocentric and like people to listen to me play. \:\) I wouldn't participate if nobody listened to me, but it wouldn't bother me if nobody commented.

p.s. In case I don't get around to doing comments, let me just say that I loved your song, Peyton. It is indeed one of your best efforts, though I think I still like "Judging Distances" the best. [/b]
Monica... considering all the time and effort you put into making the recital happen... I think we'll let it go this time. \:D

And thank you! Judging Distances is still one of my personal favorites too.

Yipee. Another comment!! \:\)
_________________________
"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
www.youtube.com/Biffer5
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#1005834 - 11/24/08 10:41 PM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4269
Loc: Arizona.
Originally posted by Monica K.:


I participate in the recitals because I'm egocentric and like people to listen to me play. \:\) [/b]

Hey thats MY line, get your own!! :p

The funny thing is I'm not kidding!, why do you think I'm usually in the top 10!.

To be honest, just knowing that others took the time to listen to my piece is rewarding in itself but who does'nt like getting stroked every so often?. \:\)

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#1005835 - 11/24/08 11:18 PM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
TX-Dennis Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 4126
Loc: Texas
Just in case any one decides to rank me in any future recital, please allow me to say it now. I SUCK! There, I feel much better. \:D

Orez Eno, I'm sorry if you don't feel that participating in recitals here is worth the effort. If you are, as you say, working on your performances in an academic and serious way, then I can understand why you feel that you don't get all that much from your participation here. The critical discussion room never sees much activity. I, for one, am not qualified to comment in any critical way on most pieces. It has been so many years since I studied music academically that I have forgotten almost everything I ever learned. Any comments I would make should be taken with a smaller than average grain of salt.

Having said that, I really enjoyed your piece, and the recital will be poorer if you choose not to participate in future. I think most of us who participate in recitals (yikes, I had to fix that - it said rectals at first) do so out of the sheer love of music and of the piano rather than from any hope of excelling in the music world. You may be an exception to that. There may be others as well. Of course, some have said they participate because they have big egos. That is probably at least partially true for all or most of us. :p I like the recitals as they are. However, if some should choose to rate the performances that would not deter me from participating. I am a realist, and I know I will never be able to "run with the big dogs" pianistically speaking.
_________________________
Dennis

flickr


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#1005836 - 11/25/08 01:48 AM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
polostrings Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 216
Loc: Hawaii
Hey, I'm not picky. I'll take the sympathy and guilt comments like "good job", "interesting", "nice". I'll take it for what is says. I figure, I got 76 other suckers to listen to me play the piano, at least for the first part, before they skip to the next one. :p But I did listen to all the pieces which is 3 or so hours of my very valuable time, and I enjoyed it. I love the new beginners like myself, as well as the old ones. Hopefully,one day I can play like they do. It is inspiring. Which is the main reason I participate, even if my piece isn't perfect, I have to try.

OrezEno's idea isn't all bad. It's just an idea, no need to go after the poor person. I will probably use some form of the idea on the next round.

BTW: Thanks everyone for commenting on my piece, generic or not, I appreciate it. After all, it took at least 2 minutes of your very valuable time as well. \:D
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#1005837 - 11/25/08 02:18 AM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
cscl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/13/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Suburban Boston
I do like these recitals very much. I like them mostly as they are, laid back, full of variety, and with a high level of participation. I like that they are quarterly. I like that they give me another impetus for learning a piece and bringing it to a higher level than I might otherwise do. And I like getting feedback (even if it's generic and I'm not so reliable about returning the favor).

I also very much like to make progress and learn more and I want to avoid plateauing in my development of technique and musicality. I personally find competition to be a good motivating factor. For the most part, that means competing with myself. Have I improved since yesterday? last week? last lesson? last year? last recital?

These ABF recitals are one facet of my study of piano. I also take weekly lessons, practice (at least a little bit) daily, I play in 3 live recitals a year with my studio (about half the time, I try to submit a different piece to ABF recitals than what I'm playing at my studio recitals), I play for other adults in our studio about 4-6 times a year in occasional group lessons, and I played in a piano competition this past summer. Basically, I have no shame and will play for anyone I can coerce into listening to me, on any piano that is within reach. \:D

Actually, I found the piano competition underwhelming. I imagined participating with maybe 6-12 other adults before a jury of 2-3 judges on a concert grand. It was supposed to be for adults with roughly the same experience, and maybe that was the case, but there were only two of us, playing a spinet in a high school classroom for a single judge and a bunch of young people and parents waiting for the next round.

I played the same Clementi movement 1 that I submitted this time around for the ABF recital (although that was 5 months ago, so it was even rougher then!). In the end, I took 2nd place (out of 2!), but the evaluation was kind of a joke. I got 98/100 and my competitor got 99/100. I played a much more difficult and longer piece with some flubs and my competitor played a fairly simple piece fairly well. How we were 99 and 98 other than as a means of dividing the two of us up for trophies is beyond me. The feedback was written on the spot and amounted to very little one could take home and improve with.

All the same, I would do it again, because it was good for nerves and motivated me to improve a piece and perform it, but it wasn't what I imagined.

I was thinking of floating the idea of an occasional piano competition on the ABF forum, but I'm gathering from some of the recent posts here that there might not be much interest. Still, I know I would participate if there were an opportunity, say twice a year where we announced maybe 4 pieces at different levels and participants would have 6 months to choose a level and work it up, then record and submit for an ABF competition. ABF forum participants in general or a previously selected panel of volunteer or nominated judges could evaluate and rank a top five or top ten for each piece.

Largely, I would see it as competition with myself to set a goal and learn a new piece and see what I could do with it, but it would also be interesting to hear other interpretations of the same piece by other players at the same level of development and pick up additional ideas from one's ABF colleagues.

I've thought about doing something similar for myself by volunteering to participate in one of the Chopin recitals, but I'm not at that level yet (although maybe I'll try to work up my first Chopin for the next ABF recital!).

Anyway, maybe a crazy idea that lacks an audience here, but I thought I'd float the idea anyway and see if anyone might find it interesting.

At any rate, onwards all to ABF 13 in February!
_________________________
cscl
Estonia 190 Satin Ebony
ABF Recitals: x9 — Studio Recitals: x17
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#1005838 - 11/25/08 03:51 AM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4269
Loc: Arizona.
cscl:

Some type of friendly piano competition has been discussed before and every time it has not been well received.

A non competitive alternative to a competition would be an exhibition and thats pretty much what the online recitals are.

Then again, any competition would be voluntary so nobody can complain how well or crappy they do as they are willfully entering it and have been warned. Quite honestly, it would probably be very entertaining if nothing else.

Since in no-way would any sort of competition replace the online recital, you could always make one up and post it in a new thread and see what happens!.

You could post up an advanced beginer level competition or an original composition competition or even a specific genre competition; whatever you can dream up.

Angelo just posted up a unique Beatles thread and while not a contest, it was a very original idea that got a lot of response and submissions.

I say go for it in a new thread if you want. Just warn everyone who enters what the rules are and accept the outcome...(I mean who really seriously cares anyway!).

I'm all for cheap entertainment!.

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#1005839 - 11/25/08 04:32 AM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
Orez Eno Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/23/08
Posts: 179
Loc: New England
 Quote:
polostrings wrote:
OrezEno's idea isn't all bad. It's just an idea, no need to go after the poor person. I will probably use some form of the idea on the next round.[/b]
You’re right. It’s just an idea. It’s an idea that I came up with to help people who are feeling obligated to make a statement on every submission, but who don’t really have the time or lack the expertise, or whatever, to do so. You just make up a bunch of category names and place various submitter usernames in each category. What’s the big deal here? And I made it clear that it shouldn’t even matter what the category names are. I like the ones you (polostrings) came up with better than mine. They can be very friendly category names. It doesn’t matter. My original posting of this idea shows a simple example.

This is not even an idea that I am proposing everyone should do. It’s just something that would help people who feel guilty about not evaluating everyone’s submission and who as a consequence are suggesting that the recitals should be smaller. I don’t think they should be smaller. I think they should be bigger and a simple idea like coming up with category names for various submissions is a way for those guilty people of to deal with its large size. Of course this idea would be used only in the “Critical Discussion” thread. But I posted the idea here because this is the thread where everyone is complaining about guilt for not evaluating everyone’s submission.

But my simple idea has raised so much out of proportion objection that I realize I am surrounded by people who have organized a fine activity, but are unable realize one very beneficial aspect of it. I'm not proposing that you turn it into a formal competition. Sure to many it is a friendly, non-competitive activity. I’m not suggesting you change the reason you submit. If you feel that way, but also feel guilty about not evaluating all the submissions, then just come up with a bunch of friendly category names and put various people’s usernames in it. What’s the big deal here? I'm just trying to help you out.

I also see an irony here. Many of you feel guilty for not commenting on each submission. Yet when someone comes up with an idea to automate the process and make it a little easier to do so, you attack it. So instead you prefer to burden yourself with the task of generating unique polite statements that have no real meaning. You’d be better off just not giving any evaluations at all.

The example of John Frank’s perfectly legitimate evaluation of Monica K’s submission in the Critical Discussion thread and people forcing him to retract it for being in poor taste is proof that as a group you do not like critical evaluations, despite the fact that you set up a special thread that you call “Critical Discussion”. What a silly soap opera it was. Why do some of you question my confusion about this aspect of your recital? This example shows that the purpose of the "Critical Discussion" thread is very confusing.

I’ve had enough arguing with people who seem unable to take a simple idea for what it is and instead exaggerate it beyond proportion.

Enjoy your recitals. Personally I see them as having a lot of potential for people like myself without affecting its friendly, non competitive atmosphere for others. But you people are just too hung up to even discuss it. Your rediculous exagerated response to a simple suggestion has completely turned me off to the idea of submitting again.

Now, if you don’t mind, I’ve got some practice work to to.
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Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.

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#1005840 - 11/25/08 05:02 AM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
LaValse Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 1224
Loc: Mumbles, Wales
I agree with everything Mr SH said in his first message.

cscl - go for it... \:\) A competition could be fun. Let me know if you need to use the recital server...
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#1005841 - 11/25/08 07:22 AM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
Gary001 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 201
Loc: UK
I'm not sure I see how the suggested category system would help alleviate the problems of so many entries to comment on. If anything, it seems to me like even more work would be required to listen to the pieces and try to decide which category to place them in, spot errors, try to deduce the difficulty of a piece...

There's also the risk of mis-categorisation, placing an easy to play song in the advanced category because it "sounds" hard, and vice-versa. This could encourage people to select pieces that sound hard rather than the real piece they fancy playing. Which would be a shame. Not only that, I'd be worried about hurting someone's feelings by placing them in the wrong category, where as with a simple comment you can be much more constructive in any criticism.

There's almost no value I can see from a beginner been listed in the beginner category. After all, beginners know they're beginners, same for intermediate and advanced players. Compare that to a comment about how well you play for just X months of lessons, or that the piece is good just needs more work on tempo or dynamics. The value of the current comments system is superior imo and yet still keeps things informal enough that you don't HAVE to worry about submitting a piece with no mistakes. As your teacher mentions about focusing too much on a technically perfect piece.


The recital must be fun and informal imo, that's why it's been so successful to date and is only growing in size.

My suggestion for helping reduce the comments needed is to just pick a few at random, or have the submission page assign X pieces to each person as the pieces to comment on (no obligation). Or look for those submissions with the fewest comments and provide some feedback on those.

People are obviously free to comment on none/more/all entries.

 Quote:
But my simple idea has raised so much out of proportion objection that I realize I am surrounded by people who have organized a fine activity, but are unable realize one very beneficial aspect of it.
I don't think anyone wants to come across as simply dismissing your ideas out of hand. If anything ideas are welcomed on these forums and as you can see in this thread, tend to generate a good deal of discussion. People will not just dismiss an idea without giving reasons behind their decision (unlike on some other forums ;\) . Just because people don't really like this particular suggestion, does not mean there isn't room for changes to the recitals. However any changes made need to be carefully considered as people are clearly enjoying the current format and the only real concern is how to provide sufficient feedback.
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#1005842 - 11/25/08 07:30 AM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
playadom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Jersey
 Quote:
Originally posted by Gary001:

There's also the risk of mis-categorisation, placing an easy to play song in the advanced category because it "sounds" hard, and vice-versa. This could encourage people to select pieces that sound hard rather than the real piece they fancy playing. Which would be a shame. Not only that, I'd be worried about hurting someone's feelings by placing them in the wrong category, where as with a simple comment you can be much more constructive in any criticism.
Beethoven's Op 2. no 1's 4th movement comes to mind here. While not an easy piece, the polyrhythms make it sound like the notes are extremely fast. A really satisfying effect actually.
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#1005843 - 11/25/08 11:06 AM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
Euan Morrison Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 1588
Loc: Edinburgh
I would agree fully S-H's earlier post (top of page 8). In fact, if I could, I would award the post 5 stars (which is ironic considering how much SH loves the stars ;\) )

I'm finding it tough to comment on everyone's pieces (i was in bed by 9.30pm last night!), but that's not to say I haven't listened and appreciated everyone's submissions.

And knowing that people from all across the world have listened to our efforts - it's just amazing when you think about it!!

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#1005844 - 11/25/08 11:07 AM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
epf Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 658
Loc: Central Texas
Okay, I guess I'll jump in with a few comments. I like the recitals (although, as a kid, I hated them). Preparing a piece to submit does not, in my mind, mean having it 100% perfect (perfection is something my wife tells me I'll never achieve). However, it does mean getting a piece to the point where I'm willing to let someone else listen to it, warts and all.

Yes, I'm a harsh judge of my own playing because I know (think? believe?) I can play better than I do. I also spent many, many years studying music and learning how it should sound. That my fingers cannot provide what my mind tells me is necessary is my frustration.

Because of what I think these recitals are for (benchmarks of our playing skills at a particular point in time) I make an effort to comment on each and every submission. Sometimes I'll go beyond the obvious and also do a critical review. If I hear something in a performance that is an obvious problem I'll usually mention it because I also see this as part of the learning process. I also appreciate when people make constructive comments on my playing (thank you Piano*Dad for your comments regarding phrasing and dynamics).

Since this recital is supposed to be fun I see no reason to stress out over it. Let's make it fun. Let's make it a part of our expression of love for the piano (as frustrating as that thing can be at times).

If people want to comment, let them comment. If they don't they don't! We still get the joy of listening to their submissions!

Ed (donning asbestos underwear)
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#1005845 - 11/25/08 02:19 PM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
Manndrew Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 267
Loc: Massachusetts
For a while there I wasn't sure I was in the "General Discussion Room" of the recital with all the debate regarding to compete or not to compete, etc. Well to get things back on track here's some additional comments:

51. grotrianer - Prelude 28/17 A flat major[/b] I thought you did very well with this piece. Maybe just a bit lighter in spots with the accompaniment to better differentiate the melodic line.

52. Deep Elem (aka Buck) - A House Is Not A Home[/b] Buck, this was awesome. Great arrangement. You really made this your own. Very professional. Love those chromatic runs. That Yammie sounds good as well. Upper register was excellent.

53. babama - Rhapsody on a theme of Paganini, 18th variation (Rachmaninov, arrangement Pochacco)[/b] Nice arrangement. It almost had a jazz feel to it in spots with the accompaniment. The main theme stood out well. Another great sounding Roland.

54. Always Wanted to Play Piano - Ombre[/b] “Always,” I think you made a really good start to this piece. All of the elements are in place. You just need a bit more speed and expression which I’m sure will come. After all, only 10 months have passed.

55. mlr1899 - Swipesy[/b] Very energetic with great forward motion. That’s pretty tricky syncopation in spots. You did fine.

56. rustyfingers - Sentimental Journey[/b] A very bluesy and laid back style with good execution on the grace notes. I especially liked your bass line when you were in the upper registers.

57. DragonPianoPlayer - Allegro[/b] The pace moved along pretty well. Good work on the trills. A solid performance.

58. Ozor Mox - The Portrait[/b] A wonderful recording. Especially considering you played this by ear. The melody really stood out beautifully. I’m sure your dad was very happy to hear this. I agree, Celine Dion is not one of my favorites either.

59. Schubertian - Prelude #13 (F# Major)[/b] I think this was excellent. It seemed you were very much in control of this piece. A beautiful melodic line. Your Estonia has tremendous character.

60. Babs - Prelude in B Minor (op28,no.6)[/b] Good relationship between the left and right hands. The melody stood out well in the bass register. All you need is a bit more speed and you’ll have this nailed.

==============================================

Well I'll finish up after the holiday. I wish everyone and their families a most Happy and Healthy Thanksgiving. Feast Ye All and return renewed for the Christmas recital.

Andy
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#1005846 - 11/25/08 02:52 PM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
Rosanna Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: San Francisco Bay area
Diane, I enjoyed your post - except I wish I appear in the Wondeful Peron Award category! \:D

I also concur with what epf said: If people want to comment, let them comment. If they don't they don't!

Whoever feels like using a category commenting system should feel free to so do. I personally would embrace any other creative and constructive ways of commenting.

As for cscl's idea of an ABF competition, I'd say that may be of interest to some members, but a competition needs to be a separate event than the recital, since they are of different nature. As Mr. Super Hunky suggests, cscl, start a thread on setting up an ABF competition. See what interest you get and get the parameters defined. I think it can become another innovative ABF event.

Now I've got to listen and comment on Peyton's and Polostring's pieces, since they really want comments! ;\)

(BTW, I am quite amazed and amused by this little soap opera we are having here! )
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#1005847 - 11/25/08 04:20 PM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
Manndrew Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 267
Loc: Massachusetts
You know if we all spent half the time giving constructive remarks to the recital pieces that we're giving to this latest issue we may have solved the problem. I think it's getting to be a bit much.
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#1005848 - 11/25/08 04:45 PM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
Peyton Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2618
Loc: Maine
 Quote:
Originally posted by Manndrew:
You know if we all spent half the time giving constructive remarks to the recital pieces that we're giving to this latest issue we may have solved the problem. I think it's getting to be a bit much. [/b]
\:\)
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#1005849 - 11/25/08 04:47 PM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
Rosanna Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: San Francisco Bay area
07 Mati - This has a beautiful and haunting melody. I love it. Thanks for sharing this with us. You played it very nicely.

08 Peyton - The composition expresses a strong feeling of angst and perhaps sadness. Very nice melody and accompaniment. I would enjoy it as a purely instrumentaly piece as well - somehow without any lyrics, I think the piece would inspire many more possible “story lines” than the just one that you intended.

50 GregF - Nicely done. I hear a lot of progress since the last recital - better touch, nicer dynamics, more refined playing.

59 Schubertian - I always enjoy your playing.

61 Oxford Gals - I can see why you’d enjoy playing this. It’s quite unique and engaging. Nicely done.

68 Polostrings - I like this song any time. You played it quite well. I tend to think of this as a pensive and mellow song, so I would prefer to have it slowed down by a lot more, and add more contrast in dynamics to it. Your kid did a good job “introducing” you!

69 Kawai - Short, sweet, and vibrant - very nice!

70 Hisalone - I think this is quite different from your other recordings, isn’t it? *Really* cool piece. So dramatic and fun - I thoroughly enjoyed it. Sounds difficult to play.
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#1005850 - 11/25/08 05:17 PM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
Undone Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/08
Posts: 415
Loc: USA, CT
 Quote:
Originally posted by Manndrew:
48. Undone – Jim - Theme from Etude Op. 10, No 3.[/b] Also one of my favorite Chopin pieces. A nice job on the clarity of the melody. Very well under control. Maybe just a bit of slowing down and/or speeding up certain passages for a bit more drama would be all I would suggest. Sort of that rubato effect.

[/b]
Manndrew,

Thank you for your comments. I know just what you mean about adding more rubato. I’ve listened to several “professional” recordings of this piece and am at awe at just how much of a difference this can make. I had begunto try and be more fluent and expressive with the tempo prior to my submission, but found that I was making more mistakes when doing so. So I fell back to the more constant tempo when making my recording. I’ll definitly continue to work on such expressivness as I move forward.

Thanks again for listening.

Undone
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#1005851 - 11/25/08 05:54 PM Re: Recital 12 -- General Discussion Room
Undone Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/08
Posts: 415
Loc: USA, CT
 Quote:
Originally posted by Peyton:
Here is my honest opinion... I feel that most of us are posting because we want others to listen to what we have done and would really like to hear some feedback. Therefore I don't think it's too much to ask that everyone that participates at least comments on a few works. even if it's just five or six (there are over 60 participants.... so that's not asking a lot. There have got to be at least five works that the person likes enough to comment on. ) It seems selfish to me for people to post their work in the recital, get 20 or more people who take the time to listen and comment on that person's work and then to give back nothing. [/b]
Peyton,

I know this is not the case, but I can’t help but feel as though you are speaking directly to me. This is the third recital that I have participated in, yet I have not commented on any of them to date. To be Frank (no offense John) I’ve felt that being so new to all of this I didn’t have anything of value to add. No comments that anyone would appreciate. But after having read through the ensuing turmoil, I now understand that simple acknowledgement of the effort put forth by all of our fine contributors is something of value in and of itself.

So I will make a concerted effort to join in the posting of comments in future recitals and perhaps even in this one over the upcoming holiday weekend (if the kids and grand-kids don’t run me too ragged over this time period).

Undone

PS: Peyton, I think you did a wonderful job on your submission to this recital, but I’d lose the singer. That’s one comment down. Just kidding (and trying to keep things light), you have a wonderful voice. \:D
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