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#1010320 - 01/04/08 09:52 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
bluekeys Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 1337
Thanks for the comments folks. Always nice to hear you're well swung. ;\)

 Quote:
Originally posted by jazzwee:

he Charleston Rhythm, which is the source of the Jazz swing beat is based on
'Dotted Quarter Note + Eight Note'
or 1.5 beats + .5 beat.

...

In the old days, pre 1940's, jazz was played with this Rhythm on beat 1 so it will be on:
<1>+ 2<+> 3+ 4+ | <1>+ 2<+> 3+ 4+ |
Chord played on <>

...

Maybe Bluekeys can honor us with a MIDI version that's more accurate. [/b]
What I'll do is encode my RH into a clean MIDI and add an LH track that attempts to do the Charleston Rhythm as you describe above. I'll do all that on the computer.

Meanwhile, on the piano, I'll work on just doing the straight LH half notes against the RH swing first, then maybe try the Charleston.

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#1010321 - 01/04/08 12:14 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7099
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by Kangamangusuk:

Jazzwee, I too am having problems with the RH swing. I can detect the sound from the masters in the vid clips, but actually putting it into practice on the keyboard is my difficulty. Have I correctly understood, the swing sound, we are all after, is created by accenting eighth notes on the offbeat (ie the plus of the beat helpfully explained by Rintincop)?

This is my amateurish attempt to create a midi comparison (not with the keyboard), using an up & down G scale. The first theoretically represents a heavier swing, the second 1:1 & the third, no swing. Do these sounds convey the differences, or is it 'barking up the wrong tree'?

http://www.box.net/shared/jkmt7x6gw4

Or, do you have any tips or practice routines for emulating the correct swing sound. When playing a scale from beat 1 & trying to accent the eighth note on the plus of each beat, I tend to lengthen the accented note. Should I start by playing the scale from 1+, instead of 1 for instance?

Sorry for the long message, but it would help, if I, & perhaps others, are put on the right track.

David [/b]
David, what you successfully accomplished is a 'hard' swinging. Look back at the comparisons of swing styles. This would be closer to Wynton Kelly, or if you did this very fast, it would sound like Bill Evans. Straight swinging would have quite a bit more longer accented note as in the 15 seconds of the Tristano Video Tangerine. Try that next. It means you have to lean on the accented note longer. This is the more modern swing style.

What's interesting is your perception. You think that you're lengthening the accented note but to my ears it's not lengthened much. Tap it without an accent using the same beat to see. Your second note is shorter.

Choose whichever you prefer. You're doing great!
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
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#1010322 - 01/04/08 12:21 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7099
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by bluekeys:
What I'll do is encode my RH into a clean MIDI and add an LH track that attempts to do the Charleston Rhythm as you describe above. I'll do all that on the computer.
[/b]
Bluekeys, when you attempt duplicate the Charleston on MIDI, experiment with how long the notes of the chord is played at those beats. Try it really short (maybe a 16th note) and try it with an eight note. We'll see which sounds better. In modern comping, I tend to see more short staccato notes. But I think in the old days it was of longer value.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
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#1010323 - 01/04/08 02:08 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
stegerson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Springfield, Missouri
 Quote:
Originally posted by jazzwee:
As you know in music theory, any Major Key has a relative Minor key and both use the same scale. The minor key is in the 6th degree of the Major scale.

So in C, the relative minor is Am.
In G the relative minor is Em.[/b]

Yes, indicated on the circle chart.

Expressed as a progression in the major scale, the sequence would be vii-iii-vi. Their intervals are exactly the same as ii-V-I. Fourths apart.[/b]

More "shifting", still with you.

Remember the vii degree is a half diminished (minor 7 b5), and the iii is a minor. Except the iii chord (Bm7) doesn't create a dominant tonic relationship so the Bm7 is converted to B7 in Autumn Leaves.[/b]

Funny, I was going to ask in the last post why this wouldn't be a Bm7.

Note that in the key of G, Em, there's no Db in the key (the 9th of B). So you play a B with a C (a half step away). That gives us the B7b9. Flat 9 is a half step interval. You can still play the b3 or really in this case it would be called #9 (which is D). So using the same scale you now have B7b9#9 which is pretty much the same as Bm7 except we focus on the b9 more. This kind of dominant is called an Altered dominant and is standard in a minor ii-V-i.[/b]

A bit fuzzy here. Why wouldn't a B9 chord work here? I'm unclear as to why C is brought into this.

So in the end, a minor ii-V-i in Em is
F#m7b5 (Half Diminished) B7b9 (Altered Dominant) Em7 (Minor Seventh).[/b]

All good except the altered dominant concept but that's o.k. for now.

In Autumn Leaves, we can emphasize the presence of the minor ii-V-I vs. the major ii-V-I because the original composer, by calling it a B7 instead of Bm7, is telling us an intent. This has a big effect because in jazz, the scale played on each chord will be different once you get to a minor ii-V-i. These allow you to add color in note selection. In other words, it will justify us to use notes that are NOT in the 'G' scale.

In fact, the composer already uses this principle because the melody notes on the B7 use the Db and the Eb which are not in the G scale. How did the composer justify this? These notes are valid notes for altered dominant (B7b9)![/b]

So from the melody, the Eb is the third of B which works because the minor was removed. The Db and its relation to the B7b9 chord still elluds me!

I hope I didn't jump things too far ahead. I'm going to try and pick up this thread closer to the current topic.
_________________________
No, I'm not a student of music, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express with a piano bar last night.
What I play: Mostly a Kawai ES4, sometimes on the Steger & Sons.

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#1010324 - 01/04/08 02:26 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7099
Loc: So. California
Stegerson, let's stick to that B7b9 for a moment.

Remember the G Scale is G A B C D E F# G.

A 'B minor 7' is in this scale (3rd degree of G)

B D F# A

Normally, the scale to be played over Bm7 is just the G scale notes as displayed above. There's a rule in jazz that if your chord is a dominant, you can then play notes outside of the scale. By playing the notes

B C Eb D F# A (which are all in the scale, except for the added Eb), the chord becomes a dominant which now has the following alterations.

C is b9 of the B7 chord, D is #9 of the chord. A dominant with a b9 and #9 is called an Altered Dominant. Lots of flexibility to play consonant tones over an altered dominant since practically every note of the scale is consonant with it (but not Bb). Over an altered dominant you can play an Altered Scale or the original G scale (and other variations in between). This allows the composer to put a melody that's outside of the G scale and opens it wide to multiple scale choices in improvisation.

The composer could have stuck the melody inside the scale (no Db Eb) and this tune wouldn't have the same impact.

Elssa's post (way back there somewhere) with a link, discusses this ingenious manuever of turning the Bm7 into B7 and changed the color of the tune completely.

So although for a beginning solo we say we will use the G scale, we are also going to add that Eb when playing B7 and other additional options when we get to the solo discussion.

We've only hit maybe 2% of Autumn Leaves if you can believe it.
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Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
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#1010325 - 01/04/08 03:00 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Kangamangusuk Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 18
Loc: East Yorkshire
Jazzwee

Apologies for not explaining myself very well in my last post. The midi file was not created from my playing. It was concocted from a computer keyboard in "Cakewalk". I was trying to represent roughly the sounds of swinging the eighths (basically accenting the relevant offbeat notes), but was not sure, if I correctly understood, exactly what was happening & was represented it properly.

From your remarks, the sound of the first two up & down scale runs seem to swing, so I now hope to emulate, that on the piano. Your reply helpfully gives me a starting point.

David

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#1010326 - 01/04/08 03:11 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7099
Loc: So. California
David, sorry I misinterpreted. Just for reference, in real life, playing swing will not be evenly divided as we cannot do it like a machine. But this is truly a helpful exercise to at least understand the pattern.

So try making the eights equal value then put more MIDI volume on the accent and then we'll see what it sounds like. This is kind of neat!
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#1010327 - 01/04/08 04:21 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
deeluk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Fort Collins, CO
I think this idea of using MIDI as a tool is a great one. I wonder how else we could use it? For instance, take a MIDI of someone's performance. Can we look at it and say see, right there, you're playing those offbeats too early/late/soft/loud. Or, look, here's a prime example of someone playing with good swing style. Those offbeats are accented and timed just about perfectly.

I don't know too much about MIDI having just acquired my first keyboard. But I imagine once you take a MIDI performance into a nice sequencing program on a PC/Mac, it's gotta be pretty easy to look at the data this way.

I'm going to try and record myself swinging (or not) a scale before I try to make the leap all the way to Autumn Leaves.

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#1010328 - 01/04/08 05:56 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
stegerson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Springfield, Missouri
 Quote:
Originally posted by jazzwee:


Elssa's post (way back there somewhere) with a link, discusses this ingenious manuever of turning the Bm7 into B7 and changed the color of the tune completely.[/b]

I missed this link earlier but now that I've viewed it, much more of this makes sense!

We've only hit maybe 2% of Autumn Leaves if you can believe it. [/b]

Oh I believe it!

_________________________
No, I'm not a student of music, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express with a piano bar last night.
What I play: Mostly a Kawai ES4, sometimes on the Steger & Sons.

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#1010329 - 01/04/08 06:10 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Kangamangusuk Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 18
Loc: East Yorkshire
Jazzwee,

Here is my second computer created midi file, which is based on equal length eighths(with triplet feel?).

http://www.box.net/shared/lbqibj6oks

The first 3 measures are an up & down run of the scale with LH shells lasting 4 beats each.

The next 3 measures are a duplication of the first 3, simply to lengthen the example further.

Measures 7 to 9 represents the same scale RH, but now over my attempt at the Charleston rythm.

Finally measures 10 to 12 are a repeat of 7 to 9.

I have left the difference between the downbeats (unaccented) & offbeats (accented) as before. The ratio is 35 (downbeats) & 100 (offbeats), where 127 = the maximum accent/ loudness & zero = minimum.

Tempo increased to 120

Deeluk, I agree with you about midi being useful in our learning adventure, but it is important, that we do not become over reliant upon it, but learn to play as naturally as possible.

David

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#1010330 - 01/04/08 06:26 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7099
Loc: So. California
David, can you experiment with a few different factors? First can you speed it up a little so we can see what that sounds like? (maybe 150bpm).

Second, can you try it without triplet feel? Straight eight notes. So no dotted eight + sixteenth. Eight + eight only. Keep the accents. It sounds about right.

Also is there a way to distribute the time of the Eights to some intermediate level between triplet feel and even eights?

On the Charleston Rhythm, could you try shortening LH chords to eight notes and 16 notes for comparison?

Then we'll have several versions to listen to that will give a lot of info for comparison.

This is very interesting. A machine can't lie so we can at least give it a good analysis.

I think we're going to learn a lot from this.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1010331 - 01/05/08 08:56 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1370
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
First post. Read through all the pages. Wow! This is so wicked!
Jazzwe, you have done SUCH a service with this thread. Never have I seen such a devoted bunch of ticklers.

I will definitely put my 2 öres worth in here too.
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#1010332 - 01/05/08 10:09 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1370
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
so let me jump here and write a little about swinging. hmmm such a subject . . . is difficult to write about, needs to be heard.
also, different ages (30-s, 40.s, 50.s, etc) all swung differently.
basically it's about anticipation (that's playing a little before the beat) and hanging (ehh hanging behind the beat). it's playing in the cracks and it's about triplets. yeah well sixteen's are in there also . . . sorry if i'm confusing you all . . . i usually teach this verbally and not in writing.
practicing scales in triplets (eight note triplets, then: swung triplets: triplet quarter note + triplet eighth) with a metronome marking 2 and 4 is essential (but ohh so tricky).
An exercise i do (and teach) is the 2-and.
It's a left hand comping drill. Bpm=80-120. Play any "jazz" chord on 1 and 2-and. The 2-and is the last triplet eight.

Give it a II-V motion:
and following AL's sequence:


Apologies if i'm butting in, but the thread just inspired me too.
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#1010333 - 01/05/08 10:22 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1370
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
If any of you want to read more about swing. Here's an Excellent article
(a .pdf-format file)
Not to forget: wikipedia\'s definition of swing with some more excellent articles - at the end
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#1010334 - 01/05/08 01:13 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
KeyboardJungle Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 52
Loc: Maryland
Help!!! I thought that I was doing pretty well playing a straight 1/7 LH and swinging the melody. Until I recorded it and listened. It sounds sooo forced... like i couldn't find the right key for the delayed pickup note on "the" until it was almost too late. Then, the "ing" sounds horribly isolated. I'm sure that there is something deperately the matter with the note on "fall", but sandwiched between the other two clunkers, one can hardly notice.

Does anybody remember the commercial for "Nut 'n Honey" cereal? A woman that reminds you of the "church lady" on Sat Night Live is torturing her ivories in the parlor, and when hubby asked what she is playing, her reply is "Nut'n, honey"? I sound like the church lady!!! I better go sit on my hands and watch TV for a while! I hope that everybody else is having a more productive Saturday morning than me!

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#1010335 - 01/05/08 01:51 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Serge88 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/06
Posts: 775
Loc: Canada
http://www.box.net/shared/1fg4enxk48

I did a lead sheet of Autumn leaves if anyone need it. Let me know of any mistake.


Serge
_________________________

“Being able to hear recorded music freed up loads of musicians that couldn't necessarily afford to learn to read or write music. With recording, it was emancipation for the people.”
-Keith Richards


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#1010336 - 01/05/08 05:18 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
deeluk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Fort Collins, CO
I've been practicing swing feel for about an hour here without much luck. Just using scales. I created a computer generated track of the G scale and then edited it up so that the accents were on the offbeats and used "Play FX" to give the timing a swing feel. I then used that as a reference for what I was trying to achieve.

I never really got there. I can sort of accent the upbeats, but my timing is usually off. I seem to have this really strong innate tendency to accent the downbeats. I'd start the first half of the scale pretty well, but then on the way down, I'd revert back to accenting the downbeats. Looking at recordings of myself (the data) the accents are pretty good sometimes up and down, but my timing drifts. If I turn on a metronome, I almost always revert back to accenting the downbeats.

I have been practicing a straight half note LH of Autumn Leaves along with a swing-feel RH. That seems to be going better than my practice. It's going to be a tough uphill battle for me I guess.

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#1010337 - 01/05/08 05:45 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
bluekeys Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 1337
Here's a new clean, computer-created midi that starts to bring in some swing elements. The bass hits eights on 1 and the + of 2 (don't I sound hip with the lingo?) and the melody does a little anticipation and hanging. It's still very mechanical, though. All notes are at the same volume and there's no variation in note lengths. Also the smallest note or rest used is an eighth.

Here's the straight midi:

http://www.box.net/shared/vg24meqgw8

And here it is rendered as an MP3 through a pretty decent piano VST with a teeny bit of reverb.

http://www.box.net/shared/s2getxxooc

I have to concentrate on a classical piece for a few days (so I don't thoroughly humiliate myself at my next lesson) but anyone who's into MIDI is welcome to jazz it up some more or try some new bass patterns.

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#1010338 - 01/05/08 05:57 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7099
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by chrisbell:
so let me jump here and write a little about swinging....[/b]
Welcom Chrisbell! What would be nice is if you recorded this LH comping so that everyone gets a feel. Looking forward to more input.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1010339 - 01/05/08 05:58 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7099
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by Serge88:
http://www.box.net/shared/1fg4enxk48

I did a lead sheet of Autumn leaves if anyone need it. Let me know of any mistake.


Serge [/b]
Looks good to me Serge. Thanks.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1010340 - 01/05/08 06:02 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7099
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by deeluk:
I've been practicing swing feel for about an hour here without much luck. Just using scales. I created a computer generated track of the G scale and then edited it up so that the accents were on the offbeats and used "Play FX" to give the timing a swing feel. I then used that as a reference for what I was trying to achieve.

I never really got there. I can sort of accent the upbeats, but my timing is usually off. I seem to have this really strong innate tendency to accent the downbeats. I'd start the first half of the scale pretty well, but then on the way down, I'd revert back to accenting the downbeats. Looking at recordings of myself (the data) the accents are pretty good sometimes up and down, but my timing drifts. If I turn on a metronome, I almost always revert back to accenting the downbeats.

I have been practicing a straight half note LH of Autumn Leaves along with a swing-feel RH. That seems to be going better than my practice. It's going to be a tough uphill battle for me I guess. [/b]
Deeluk, I think I intended this to me a long term project. There's a technique and quite a bit of control involved so let it simmer. I would practice it for short phrases instead of the whole scale continuously. The breaks will allow you to recover on the downbeat. You need to feel that offbeat in your bones and you'll naturally know where to lean that accent. So be patient. Breaking a line into short phrases is the typical way jazz lines are played anyway.

Just keep doing this and we'll move into further topics.
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Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1010341 - 01/05/08 06:16 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7099
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by bluekeys:
Here's a new clean, computer-created midi that starts to bring in some swing elements. The bass hits eights on 1 and the + of 2 (don't I sound hip with the lingo?) and the melody does a little anticipation and hanging. It's still very mechanical, though. All notes are at the same volume and there's no variation in note lengths. Also the smallest note or rest used is an eighth.

Here's the straight midi:

http://www.box.net/shared/vg24meqgw8

And here it is rendered as an MP3 through a pretty decent piano VST with a teeny bit of reverb.

http://www.box.net/shared/s2getxxooc

I have to concentrate on a classical piece for a few days (so I don't thoroughly humiliate myself at my next lesson) but anyone who's into MIDI is welcome to jazz it up some more or try some new bass patterns. [/b]
Hey Bluekeys. That really doesn't feel right. Partly the first 3 notes of each melody are played as all 8 notes and if you do that then it's missing an accent on the second note.

This shows where the human feel is so important. You could try the frst 3 notes as quarter note, but played short (i.e. like a 32th rest in between or something).

Charleston on the LH is supposed to feel relaxed but the hurried feel of the melody seemed to be a mismatch.

BTW - the MIDI teaches us something. In real playing, you don't have to play every beat on the LH. When I play, I skip LH comping when the melody is going, or introduce only comping at quiet moments. This has a good balancing effect. It's noticeable on a MIDI because the machine makes a relentless LH beat that sometimes doesn't belong. If you listen to masters comp on the LH, they vary the size of the notes all the time and it always sounds like it supports the RH, not just provide a fixed rhythm. Hard to do on a machine but in many ways, it teaches us why we play piano and not a machine.

Thanks for sharing that bluekeys. You're excused from practice \:D while you do your classical. But you still have to read our thread ;\)
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
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#1010342 - 01/05/08 07:12 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Steve W Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/07
Posts: 249
Loc: Omaha, NE
 Quote:
Originally posted by Serge88:
http://www.box.net/shared/1fg4enxk48

I did a lead sheet of Autumn leaves if anyone need it. Let me know of any mistake.


Serge [/b]
Very nice job, Serge! Looks very professional.
What program did you use to do this?
_________________________
Steve W
Omaha, NE

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#1010343 - 01/05/08 07:38 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
bluekeys Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 1337
 Quote:
jazzwee said:

This shows where the human feel is so important.
[/b]
One of the things I discovered by doing this exercise is that it's very difficult to generate excitement or spontaneity when you're sitting at a computer typing in notes. There are, of course, skilled midi coders who can create beautiful music with the technology available today, and anything that can be played on a digital piano can theoretically be reproduced in midi, but it's never as authentic as playing it yourself.

Even though the result was less than stellar, this was a very valuable experience. I learned a ton about midi, and by coding it, I learned the song much more thoroughly than I would have just playing it. The time spent coding was at least as valuable as practice time.

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#1010344 - 01/05/08 08:03 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Jeff Bauer Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/03
Posts: 1718
Loc: Los Angeles
Great topic Jazzwee. I have been following it with interest.

Would anyone here benefit from a downloadable MP3 of a back track without the piano part to play along with? I created a latin style version with acoustic guitar, percussion, and bass - it's a MIDI file, however I can convert it to MP3 with ease. It's arranged a little different, but nothing too difficult.
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#1010345 - 01/05/08 08:45 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Elssa Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1580
Loc: NY
Can we please review the E Minor Melodic and Harmonic scales as they relate to Autumn Leaves? Thanks! \:\)

http://www.drpsychotic.com/strike_a_chord/e_m_minor_scale.html


AU 2 - E Harmonic[/b] minor Scale-tone Chords

"Now let us look at G major's related minor, E minor. Below you see the scale-tone chord progression for the E harmonic[/b] minor scale".

http://esvc001419.wic024u.server-web.com/articles/aut.htm

Harmonic[/b] minor scale: The same as the natural minor but with a chromatically raised seventh degree.

Would that raised seventh degree of the E minor harmonic scale be the D#/Eb note used in the B7 chord?

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#1010346 - 01/05/08 10:31 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
gabytu Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1522
Loc: Portland, Or.
Serge 88. Thanks for the lead sheet of Autumn Leaves. I was just getting ready to ask if anyone could tell me where I could get a copy, and lo and behold, you had already written one out for us. Thanks again. Gaby Tu

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#1010347 - 01/05/08 10:45 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
gabytu Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1522
Loc: Portland, Or.
Jazz wee, Here is one of my stupid questions.
In going over your explanation of the chords, I am a bit puzzled about how to spell the F#m7b5, which you describe as half diminished.
I have been playing F# A C Eb---which is a full diminished 7th.

I only had traditional classical theory--not jazz theory, and I do notice that some of the chords are notated differently, so excuse my ignorance.

My question is: Am I spelling (and playing) the chord correctly? I am brand new at playing anything other than classical, and am having a great time leaning something new. Gaby tu

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#1010348 - 01/05/08 10:48 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Serge88 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/06
Posts: 775
Loc: Canada
I used Noteworthy composer.

http://www.noteworthysoftware.com/

I also have a midi file with piano and accompaniements, I muted the piano and play with it, it's really fun. I will upload the file later.

Now I need to practice the swing feel.

Serge
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“Being able to hear recorded music freed up loads of musicians that couldn't necessarily afford to learn to read or write music. With recording, it was emancipation for the people.”
-Keith Richards


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#1010349 - 01/05/08 11:24 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7099
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Bauer:
Great topic Jazzwee. I have been following it with interest.

Would anyone here benefit from a downloadable MP3 of a back track without the piano part to play along with? I created a latin style version with acoustic guitar, percussion, and bass - it's a MIDI file, however I can convert it to MP3 with ease. It's arranged a little different, but nothing too difficult. [/b]
Jeff, I wondered when you would show up. That's a great idea. Please post it. I was going to eventually load a Band In the Box version of this as a play along but I have to reinstall BIAB and don't have much time. I may do it later.

By the way, guys, Jeff and I shared a couple of the same teachers. such a small world...

Please hang out with us Jeff.
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