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#1010350 - 01/05/08 11:27 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7064
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by gabytu:
Jazz wee, Here is one of my stupid questions.
In going over your explanation of the chords, I am a bit puzzled about how to spell the F#m7b5, which you describe as half diminished.
I have been playing F# A C Eb---which is a full diminished 7th.

I only had traditional classical theory--not jazz theory, and I do notice that some of the chords are notated differently, so excuse my ignorance.

My question is: Am I spelling (and playing) the chord correctly? I am brand new at playing anything other than classical, and am having a great time leaning something new. Gaby tu [/b]
Hi Gaby Tu, the spellling of F#m7b5 is
F# A C E, not Eb. This is half diminished not fully diminished. I'm going to spend a lot of time on chord spelling momentarily in order to introduce voicings so I will explain this in more detail.
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#1010351 - 01/05/08 11:38 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Serge88 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/06
Posts: 775
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Bauer:

Would anyone here benefit from a downloadable MP3 of a back track without the piano part to play along with? I created a latin style version with acoustic guitar, percussion, and bass - it's a MIDI file, however I can convert it to MP3 with ease. It's arranged a little different, but nothing too difficult. [/b]
Yes, Mp3 and midi file. With midi file I can slow it down.

Serge
_________________________

“Being able to hear recorded music freed up loads of musicians that couldn't necessarily afford to learn to read or write music. With recording, it was emancipation for the people.”
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#1010352 - 01/05/08 11:44 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Van Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 1215
Loc: S. California
jazzwee, anyway you can record a midi of this piece to demonstrate the rhythm accenting that you talked about? I'd be useful to be able to see your actual fingering.

For people without something better, you can see the piano fingering when playing the midi with something like the free Vanbasco's Karaoke Player.
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#1010353 - 01/05/08 11:52 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7064
Loc: So. California
ADVANCED TOPIC - IGNORE[/b]

 Quote:
Originally posted by Elssa:
Can we please review the E Minor Melodic and Harmonic scales as they relate to Autumn Leaves? Thanks! \:\)

http://www.drpsychotic.com/strike_a_chord/e_m_minor_scale.html


AU 2 - E Harmonic[/b] minor Scale-tone Chords

"Now let us look at G major's related minor, E minor. Below you see the scale-tone chord progression for the E harmonic[/b] minor scale".

http://esvc001419.wic024u.server-web.com/articles/aut.htm

Harmonic[/b] minor scale: The same as the natural minor but with a chromatically raised seventh degree. [/b]
Hi Elssa, I'll give a brief explanation here but this is advanced so I'll have to repeat it later on in advanced soloing.

We don't use the E Melodic Minor per se in Autumn Leaves. We CAN use the VI mode of the Melodic Minor, I believe called "Locrian #2" and this can used against half diminished chord. But there other scales than be used on this chord called "Diminished Whole Tone" or ALT scale (VII mode of the Melodic Minor).

The Em7 uses just a plain Minor Scale (same as G Major Scale).

B7b9 could use a half-whole diminished scale, an ALT scale (VII Mode of Melodic Minor), a plain Mixolydian mode of G, a Whole Tone scale.

So as you can see Melodic and Harmonic minor scales in E don't necessarily fit in Autumn Leaves. These scales use a Maj7 interval which is used in Major/Minor Chords and doesn't exist in this tune. But their modes are very interesting because it is from the Melodic minor modes that many of the sounds in jazz come from.

If you have something more specific to ask, I will try to answer it.

BTW - A tune that comes to mind with Minor/Major chords is My Funny Valentine. Perfect use of a harmonic minor.

In your link I noticed that they managed to use the harmonic minor by substituting the chords in Autumn Leaves. So for our base chords here it wouldn't work.
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#1010354 - 01/05/08 11:57 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7064
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by Van:
jazzwee, anyway you can record a midi of this piece to demonstrate the rhythm accenting that you talked about? I'd be useful to be able to see your actual fingering.

For people without something better, you can see the piano fingering when playing the midi with something like the free Vanbasco's Karaoke Player. [/b]
Van, I sold my keyboards recently and I haven't purchased a new one yet so I have no MIDI instrument. I'm stuck with MP3 at the moment.
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#1010355 - 01/06/08 12:09 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Elssa Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1556
Loc: NY
"Harmonic minor scale: The same as the natural minor but with a chromatically raised seventh degree".

Would that raised seventh degree of the E minor harmonic scale be the D# note used in the B7 chord?

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#1010356 - 01/06/08 12:49 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
gabytu Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1522
Loc: Portland, Or.
Thanks for the clarification on the spelling of the F# 1/2 dim. 7th. Also thanks for giving the link to the Jazclass detailed analysis of the chords, progressions etc. I am so excited about this. After only playing classical music, note for note as it is written, this is a whole new experience for me. Currently I am trying to learn to pick out melodies by ear. Slow going, but bit by bit, it is getting easier. Gaby Tu

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#1010357 - 01/06/08 01:21 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7064
Loc: So. California
ADVANCED TOPIC - IGNORE[/b]

 Quote:
Originally posted by Elssa:
"Harmonic minor scale: The same as the natural minor but with a chromatically raised seventh degree".

Would that raised seventh degree of the E minor harmonic scale be the D# note used in the B7 chord? [/b]
No actually, not directly IMO because it doesn't explain why there's a C# in the same melody. C# doesn't belong in the Harmonic minor scale. It does show up in the Melodic Minor scale, but that scale excludes the C which is the b9 of B, a critical note.

The scales that I described above would be the ones used on the F#m7b5-B7b9-Em7 progression. Use of any other scale would require reharmonization of the chords.

In jazz, it is important to understand the modes of the melodic minor (ascending) which has many more uses than the melodic minor by itself.
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#1010358 - 01/06/08 01:25 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7064
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by gabytu:
Thanks for the clarification on the spelling of the F# 1/2 dim. 7th. Also thanks for giving the link to the Jazclass detailed analysis of the chords, progressions etc. I am so excited about this. After only playing classical music, note for note as it is written, this is a whole new experience for me. Currently I am trying to learn to pick out melodies by ear. Slow going, but bit by bit, it is getting easier. Gaby Tu [/b]
I'm glad you're enjoying this Gaby Tu. We are at such an early phase here. We are barely making a dent at understanding everything we can understand from this one tune. Sometimes I just want to spend hours and hours writing everything up but it would be so confusing so I have to hold it back.

The good news is that I figured this all out in a fairly short time (I think a year's worth of theory self-study) so it's very doable.
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#1010359 - 01/06/08 02:00 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7064
Loc: So. California
Here's an excerpt where I do a Charleston rhythm on the LH.

http://www.box.net/shared/od6cr5e4oc

I'm not good at it but it's good practice to learn to create a swinging rhythm on the LH. Note that modern Jazz doesn't use Charleston on the LH. This is an exercise to develop swing feel in comping. I didn't have a metronome on but I would practice this with 2 & 4 on the metronome.

Most modern rhythms are derived from this so once you figure out the concept, you listen to jazz masters play and see what they do to the LH. They will use long notes, short notes, staccato, etc. but there will be an off balance nature to their comping so that it doesn't land in a consistent place like downbeats.

Note that Charleston rhythm is best practiced against a rhythm section or at least a metronome. It was hard to do it by myself without some accurate pulse as my RH was already syncopating.

So please remember that this is mostly an exercise. You will eventually comp with some variation of this (like I did at the beginning).
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#1010360 - 01/06/08 02:14 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Elssa Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1556
Loc: NY
These scales and modes are pretty confusing to me, but I think I remember hearing somewhere that the Mixolydian is the most commonly used mode. Is that right? Thanks. \:\)

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#1010361 - 01/06/08 02:44 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7064
Loc: So. California
ADVANCED TOPIC - IGNORE[/b]

 Quote:
Originally posted by Elssa:
These scales and modes are pretty confusing to me, but I think I remember hearing somewhere that the Mixolydian is the most commonly used mode. Is that right? Thanks. \:\) [/b]
If playing just a diatonic scale, you'll have to go through the common modes of Ionian, Dorian, and Mixolydian in a typical ii-V-I. But in modern jazz, Mixolydian is shunned for more exotic scales so I'm going to guess that Dorian is probably the most common.

But you could be correct for non-jazz.

I'll go through some of these later in detail. It isn't completely necessary to understand modes to play any of this. Modes just identify the scale to be used. If you already know the notes of the scale to be used, not knowing what 'mode' it came for is just academic. Do you really think I remember VI or VII mode of the melodic minor at the top of my head? \:D I forgot what they were called so I looked it up.

But I always remember the scale by name like "Diminished Whole Tone" so it doesn't matter that I forgot what mode it came from. Modes can be unecessary complexity IMHO and is fine for academic learning. We could skip discussing modes and not miss a beat.

However discussing "scales" is closely related since scales are derived from modes. We could study closely how one makes flour from wheat but I think we can make bread just starting from the flour and not have to visit the farm.

So at least for this thread, we will be discussing scales. Some of them will have unusual shapes.

Some sample scales we will discuss:

Half-Whole Diminished
Whole-Half Diminished
Diminished Whole Tone (Altered Scale)
Whole Tone

The rest of the common scales are derived from the major scale so it is not necessary to discuss those modes since the notes are the same. There are alternative ways of explaining modes that I personally think are more relevant and this has to do with discussing primary chord (1,3,5,7) tones and extensions (9,11,13 and their alterations). I find these are easier to explain so I was planning on using this explanation later.

So for the moment, just make a note in your head that MODE = Some sort of Scale.

Now for your personal reading, you can read up on this:

I Chords (Maj7) = Ionian Mode
II Chords (min7) = Dorian Mode
V Chords (Dom 7) = Mixolydian Mode

Which in simplified terms just means, "What starting note in the Major scale is used for these chords?". The answer is the same as the scale degree. In the key of C, I = C, II = D, and V= 5. Playing a scale, starting on a different note changes the color of the scale, even though they are the same notes. Of course this is the exact principle of Scale Degrees which we already discussed earlier (notes on the keyboard are not symmetrical due to distribution of black keys).
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#1010362 - 01/06/08 06:12 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
mahlzeit Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1910
Loc: Netherlands
Wow, this thread is going WAY to fast for me to keep up. There's a lot of different discussions going on all at once. Anyone else feel overwhelmed?

 Quote:
Originally posted by gabytu:
I am a bit puzzled about how to spell the F#m7b5, which you describe as half diminished.[/b]
F#m7b5 is an F#m7 chord with a lowered 5th.

If you know how to construct chords from scale degrees then playing a half-diminished chord is the same as playing a minor-7th chord but with the 5th lowered a half-step.

In root position, you can simply move your LH index finger a half-step down.
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#1010363 - 01/06/08 06:22 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1345
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Thanks for the suggestion, I will post files on examples. Does the group prefer midi and/or audio files?

In playing/performing AL, don't forget, that yes it's played as a swinging upbeat jazzstandard, it was originally written as a ballad - and a french ballad to boot. (hearing Yves Montand humming it is . . sublime)

Now slightly OT, I'm interested in verse. Or rather verses. Which I find sometimes to of more musical interest than the refrain (which is always performed). The AL you are playing is only half of the song; the refrain. The verse - heck nobody (well, nearly nobody) plays that.
What do I mean with this rambling is that . . don't forget the musical context. It's a song. Read the lyrics for inspiration. Try and find it sung in the original language . . . it might make a difference for your interpretation.
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https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
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#1010364 - 01/06/08 06:50 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1345
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Another thing, don't forget to listen - a lot - to jazz if you want to play jazz. It's an aural tradition. Get an inner feel for the tune. If you want listening suggestions just ask.
And play-a-long. Play alongside with the masters (put on a cd, mp3, youtube). Even if it's just the melody at first, then maybe play the chords. Not to imitate, but to emulate.
Btw, those of you with a classical background; about AL: think Bach.
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I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
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#1010365 - 01/06/08 09:35 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1345
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Ok. Here's some audio examples of the 2-and.

A: midi mp3
B:II-V movement midi mp3
C: AL-sequence midi mp3
D: AL-lite. 2-and + melody midi mp3

All done at 100bpm w a metronome. and a ratty old mother keyboard in an unfamiliar key (for me at least, so it was fun getting to know it in Em)
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#1010366 - 01/06/08 10:43 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
DeepElem Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 366
Loc: USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by mahlzeit:
Wow, this thread is going WAY to fast for me to keep up. There's a lot of different discussions going on all at once. Anyone else feel overwhelmed?
[/b]
Yeah, there's a lot to keep up with, especially because there are different people at different levels.

I'm not sure what the solution is though. It's almost like we need separate threads for Autumn Leaves Level 1, 2, 3, etc.
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#1010367 - 01/06/08 10:52 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Kangamangusuk Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 18
Loc: East Yorkshire
I'm only away just over 24 hours & I have so many posts to read & catch up with. That will be my next job!

Back to the subject of trying to learn swing feel, here are my midi link files for those interested. Instead of using my computer & an old version of Cakewalk, I created these on my Clavinova, which clearly shows on its score display, where applicable, that triplets are being timed.

ChrisBell's base line pattern - tempo 120 - http://www.box.net/shared/dbvjlfns4g

Ditto - tempo 150 - http://www.box.net/shared/dplw1qxuso

Jazzwee's Charleston pattern - tempo 120 - http://www.box.net/shared/qacqvjr28o

Ditto - tempo 150 - http://www.box.net/shared/mae7rmu68c

In each file the melody line simply consists of a G scale up & down over 3 measures & then duplicated for another 3 measures for length as follows;

1st 6 measures - even 8ths with triplet feel
2nd 6 measures - eighths ratio 3:2 with same triplet feel
3rd 6 measures - ratio 2:1 with triplet feel
4th 6 measures - even eighths (no triplet feel at all)
5th 6 measures - dotted quaver/ semiquaver (again no triplet feel)

There should be a swing feel to all examples, as the offbeat notes are all accented.

Does this help anyone? I'm not sure.

ChrisBell, welcome. Your contribution is appreciated already. Also a number of other contributors have been busy & I must now catch up on their posts.

What a good study group!

David

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#1010368 - 01/06/08 10:57 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Steve W Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/07
Posts: 249
Loc: Omaha, NE
 Quote:
Originally posted by DeepElem:
 Quote:
Originally posted by mahlzeit:
Wow, this thread is going WAY to fast for me to keep up. There's a lot of different discussions going on all at once. Anyone else feel overwhelmed?
[/b]
Yeah, there's a lot to keep up with, especially because there are different people at different levels.

I'm not sure what the solution is though. It's almost like we need separate threads for Autumn Leaves Level 1, 2, 3, etc. [/b]
That seems like a great idea to me!

Does seem that we have several different themes going at the same time and it is getting confusing.
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#1010369 - 01/06/08 11:25 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1345
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
I disagree to separate threads. I understand that it's getting confusing. But separating it would create more ehh confusion imho.
Playing jazz IS difficult, it takes study and dedication (a dedication which all of you do show!), and asking a lot of questions. Remember: there are NO stupid or "to simple" questions. By sticking together we will all sort it out together.

Though maybe a header for each different aspect of playing AL. LH-comp, RH-melody, scales/theory, etc. That might make it easier to jump to what interests me at the moment and makes it easier to search.
(in forums like this one I copy (the question and answer) and paste the text into a text app. so that I can collect and print out if needed). I've worked in the field of music for 30 years in many different capacity's and I still learn a lot from beginners and pros alike.
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I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#1010370 - 01/06/08 11:26 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7064
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by Kangamangusuk:
I'm only away just over 24 hours & I have so many posts to read & catch up with. That will be my next job!

Back to the subject of trying to learn swing feel, here are my midi link files for those interested. Instead of using my computer & an old version of Cakewalk, I created these on my Clavinova, which clearly shows on its score display, where applicable, that triplets are being timed.

ChrisBell's base line pattern - tempo 120 - http://www.box.net/shared/dbvjlfns4g

Ditto - tempo 150 - http://www.box.net/shared/dplw1qxuso

Jazzwee's Charleston pattern - tempo 120 - http://www.box.net/shared/qacqvjr28o

Ditto - tempo 150 - http://www.box.net/shared/mae7rmu68c

In each file the melody line simply consists of a G scale up & down over 3 measures & then duplicated for another 3 measures for length as follows;

1st 6 measures - even 8ths with triplet feel
2nd 6 measures - eighths ratio 3:2 with same triplet feel
3rd 6 measures - ratio 2:1 with triplet feel
4th 6 measures - even eighths (no triplet feel at all)
5th 6 measures - dotted quaver/ semiquaver (again no triplet feel)

There should be a swing feel to all examples, as the offbeat notes are all accented.

David [/b]
This is an excellent demonstration David. Listeners, don't forget to listen all the way through it too observe the various divisions of eight notes from asymmetrical to symmetrical.

My teacher's personal way of playing is close to the even eights that you demonstrate.

In real life playing though, no one can maintain a fixed style so you see a roaming through a range of symmetries with each player having a leaning towards a particular swing style. And that's what gives it life.

These MIDI files makes it clear what we're talking about. All of these have upbeat accents, which is the key consistent factor.
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#1010371 - 01/06/08 11:31 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7064
Loc: So. California
I'm trying not to introduce new topics that don't follow our lesson format. I'm just answering what I get asked. But at this point in time, if I answer a theory discussion and I don't put a Lesson title on top, then you can pretty much ignore that for now.

You can stick to lesson items (which I mark in bold at the top).

Please don't feel obligated to read advanced discussions of theory. If it were important, I would label the top.

We could handle general advanced theory discussions on the other jazz thread for separation.

In reality we have been focused on the swing analysis for a few days to make sure that we understood each other here. We talked about LH and RH but we haven't really added much to the lessons.

EDIT: I've gone back to the complex posts and labeled them:
ADVANCED TOPIC - IGNORE[/b]

So when you see this, it's not relevant to the lessons at the moment.
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#1010372 - 01/06/08 11:39 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7064
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by chrisbell:
Ok. Here's some audio examples of the 2-and.

A: midi mp3
B:II-V movement midi mp3
C: AL-sequence midi mp3
D: AL-lite. 2-and + melody midi mp3

All done at 100bpm w a metronome. and a ratty old mother keyboard in an unfamiliar key (for me at least, so it was fun getting to know it in Em) [/b]
This is excellent Chris! I think this shows pretty well what we're trying to do. Chris' LH is different from my Charleston only on the Long second note. The timing is the same. (and it shows that my version needed a metronome \:D )
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#1010373 - 01/06/08 11:49 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7064
Loc: So. California
Just a side comment from something that just came to my head. This thread is very unusual and is probably more educational than a typical jazz lesson with a teacher. First of all, if you took lessons once a week, you couldn't cover this much micro detail on the material. Plus we have the ability to interact so questions that come up don't have to wait a week to get resolved.

A common problem is to practice something incorrectly for a week or two and come to the lesson realizing that you've got it all wrong. Here you get instant response! Also these discussions exceed hour lessons and there's a lot of detail in them that you can go back and forth.

I don't believe I've ever seen this kind of Jazz discussion EVER on the internet.

What you guys don't even realize is that there are side discussions between me and some pros and that can get interesting too \:D
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#1010374 - 01/06/08 11:55 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
deeluk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Fort Collins, CO
 Quote:
Originally posted by Steve W:
 Quote:
Originally posted by DeepElem:
 Quote:
Originally posted by mahlzeit:
Wow, this thread is going WAY to fast for me to keep up. There's a lot of different discussions going on all at once. Anyone else feel overwhelmed?
[/b]
Yeah, there's a lot to keep up with, especially because there are different people at different levels.

I'm not sure what the solution is though. It's almost like we need separate threads for Autumn Leaves Level 1, 2, 3, etc. [/b]
That seems like a great idea to me!

Does seem that we have several different themes going at the same time and it is getting confusing. [/b]
I vote that we keep the thread together too. No matter how confusing it gets. I'm obviously at a very early level here, but I think being exposed to the higher level discussions will sink in and help at some point. Having to keep up with 3 separate threads would make things worse IMO.

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#1010375 - 01/06/08 12:08 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
deeluk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Fort Collins, CO
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Bauer:
Great topic Jazzwee. I have been following it with interest.

Would anyone here benefit from a downloadable MP3 of a back track without the piano part to play along with? I created a latin style version with acoustic guitar, percussion, and bass - it's a MIDI file, however I can convert it to MP3 with ease. It's arranged a little different, but nothing too difficult. [/b]
I've been doing this occasionally with my keyboard generating backing drums and bass. That got me to wondering. Is this a good, bad or indifferent practice? I feel like I lean on the backing rhythm when I do this. It feels like my timing markedly improves when I practice this way. Thus I'm not really developing my own internal rhythm. I guess the obvious answer is that I need to do both (solo and with backing/metronome). Just wondering what others' feelings on this are.

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#1010376 - 01/06/08 01:57 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1345
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
I love to practice with the Real Book songs ( I also create my own examples) in BIAB (band in a box) I mute all chord instruments, keep drums and bass and play.
I use it like a glorious metronome. (if I'm in geek mode I'll generate a song and then export as midi so that I can import them and use better sounding instruments).

Also for learning tunes, in different keys at different tempi (and different styles/meters).
_________________________

I never play anything the same way once.

https://soundcloud.com/chrisb/sets
https://www.youtube.com/user/djboing/videos

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#1010377 - 01/06/08 02:24 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
gabytu Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1522
Loc: Portland, Or.
Wow, as one who only played or listened to classical music, I am learning so much, thanks to Jazzwee, and the others who have contributed so much to those thread.

Prior to my joining you I thought all non-classical music was the same. Now I have learned that there are so many different styles--swing, real jazz, ballad style, coctail lounge style etc. What an wealth of information you all are sharing.

I have a long way to go before I will be able to even approach what you all are doing. Mostly I am just playing block chords, root position in the left hand, just to learn to play them without having the written notes before me. I am amazed at how dependent I am upon visual cues. Now, I am trying to rely on my ear to tell me what to do.

I am just taking it all one step at a time--else I begin to feel overwhelmed. Unless I am wrong, aside from the more extensive use of seventh chords, and altered chords, jazz follows pretty much the same rules as classical music does with regard to the progressions.

It is getting the rhythm down that for me is the hardest now, as I have not listened to much jazz.

Jazzwee, thanks thanks thanks. You are a wonderful teacher and so very generous and patient with those of us who came to this forum without a clue as to what jazz style is. Gaby Tu

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#1010378 - 01/06/08 02:49 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
deeluk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Fort Collins, CO
 Quote:
Originally posted by chrisbell:
I love to practice with the Real Book songs ( I also create my own examples) in BIAB (band in a box) I mute all chord instruments, keep drums and bass and play.
I use it like a glorious metronome. (if I'm in geek mode I'll generate a song and then export as midi so that I can import them and use better sounding instruments).

Also for learning tunes, in different keys at different tempi (and different styles/meters). [/b]
Yes it is a lot of fun. Much more so than just a metronome. And, if you've never had exposure to playing with a group (like me), it is a reasonable simulation. For me, when I start improvising, I often get lost as far as the form goes. By building a backing "band", this becomes immediately apparent and I think helps train me as to proper form. I'm not really familiar with Band In a Box, but my keyboard has a similar function. It's a snap to generate a song and then mute one or more of the tracks and play along with it. I just wonder what happens when you take that away and start playing solo again. Does it all fall apart? Rhythm-wise specifically.

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#1010379 - 01/06/08 03:26 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
LaValse Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 1224
Loc: Mumbles, Wales
This is my attempt at a Charleston LH + non-swing quarter note RH exercise. I practiced a lot counting 1+2+3+4+ then stopped and tried to 'feel' the LH.

www.sailwave.com/piano/al3.mp3

Listening to it I realise now that the RH is late when there is no LH...
_________________________
http://uk.youtube.com/user/sailwavedev

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