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#1010380 - 01/06/08 03:49 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Kangamangusuk Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 18
Loc: East Yorkshire
LaValse, well done! I liked that a lot.

I can see, I need to practice harder, to try & catch up.

David

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#1010381 - 01/06/08 04:36 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Johan B Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/07
Posts: 987
Loc: The Netherlands, Grootegast-Gr...
Hi guys,

Played tonight Autumn leaves and recorded it as midi-file - MP3 is not available - and I played with the whole intro Is it jazz, classical....? I think it's me. \:D
(You can import the midifile to every Yamaha DP, so you can hear the real sound)

Autumn leaves (midi)

It is fun to play this song. Maybe next weekend I record a mp-3 of it for ABF. Midi is only midi, you know......

Best regards.

Johan B
_________________________
Yamaha clp320PE

Currently working on:Sonaten of Haydn/Mozart, Suites Bach/Händel, Sonate pathetique Beethoven
'Nil volentibus arduum'
https://m.youtube.com/user/JohanBenjaminsMusic

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#1010382 - 01/06/08 04:56 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by LaValse:
This is my attempt at a Charleston LH + non-swing quarter note RH exercise. I practiced a lot counting 1+2+3+4+ then stopped and tried to 'feel' the LH.

www.sailwave.com/piano/al3.mp3 [/b]
You're making some serious headway here LaValse. Now since you are playing this using quarter notes on the melody, let's modify your swing a little bit. Play the quarter notes short, meaning there should be a audible rest between the 3 quarter notes at the beginning of the melody then you follow it with that whole note that has no rest.

So again: Quarter notes are played detached (non-legato). This swings it because typically the rest is a sixteenth, which is the second swing note in an eight pair. I wanted to emphasize this point as most of the swing discussions was on eight notes. This is all we do with quarter notes.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1010383 - 01/06/08 05:14 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by Johan B:
Hi guys,

Played tonight Autumn leaves and recorded it as midi-file - MP3 is not available - and I played with the whole intro Is it jazz, classical....? I think it's me. \:D
(You can import the midifile to every Yamaha DP, so you can hear the real sound)

Autumn leaves (midi)

It is fun to play this song. Maybe next weekend I record a mp-3 of it for ABF. Midi is only midi, you know......

Best regards.

Johan B [/b]
Thanks for sharing Johan. Now read up and participate and we'll turn it into jazz. \:D
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1010384 - 01/06/08 05:18 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by gabytu:
Jazzwee, thanks thanks thanks. You are a wonderful teacher and so very generous and patient with those of us who came to this forum without a clue as to what jazz style is. Gaby Tu [/b]
Gaby Tu, thanks for the nice comments. Just realize that I'm just a facilitator. I'm just an amateur like everyone else here. I'm learning just as much as the rest of you. In order to explain some of this requires me to clean up my own act and it's very fruitful for me. We'll all grow in this together.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1010385 - 01/06/08 05:24 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by deeluk:
I've been doing this occasionally with my keyboard generating backing drums and bass. That got me to wondering. Is this a good, bad or indifferent practice? [/b]
Looking back at my own study of Jazz, I did not spend enough time with playing with a rhythm section so this is a weak point for me.

Recently I've refocused on practicing with "Aebersold Play Alongs". It's been very helpful because the players are real and masterful jazz players and in real playing, everything from time, to the way the Bass and Drums play communicate something to the player. For example, the Rhythm section, by the way they play, guides to upcoming changes (like the end of the solo section, or the upcoming bridge, etc.). In a fixed Rhythm provided by a keyboard, you don't feel this and it is still like playing alone.

So it is highly recommended and is part of jazz development. It can be practiced more heavily as you get more advanced though so it isn't necessary for the earliest stages of learning.
_________________________
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#1010386 - 01/06/08 05:26 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
LaValse Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 1224
Loc: Mumbles, Wales
Hi jazzwee, thanks for listening. I have been wondering about quarter notes and swing - I will practice them detached... What a nice way to spend a Sunday afternoon... \:\)

Edit: Ah, reading back through the thread - you've mentioned it already - I must have missed it.

David - thanks - it was fun.
_________________________
http://uk.youtube.com/user/sailwavedev

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#1010387 - 01/06/08 05:45 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Steve W Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/07
Posts: 249
Loc: Omaha, NE
Since the consensus is to not split the current thread into separate lessons -one other thought occurred to me about how this is organized. As jazzwee has said, this is a truly unique teaching circle, thanks to him (her?) --

Since it is so unique and so valuable, what about having 2 parallel threads?

1. One which is moderated by jazzwee, and probably mostly contributed to by jazzwee, that has the lessons

and

2. One which has the discussion about the lessons?

*********************

Right now, we are up to 12 pages of a mixed bag of #1 and #2.

For posterity, for those who look up this thread later - wouldn't it make sense to have a concise place to go with the lessons, and then if one wants to learn more about the whys and wherefores, a separate thread which is indexed (referenced) to the "lesson" thread?

Just a thought. Won't hurt my feelings no matter what you decide to do, and will continue to follow with interest (and hope for my future jazz-playing ability).
_________________________
Steve W
Omaha, NE

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#1010388 - 01/06/08 06:17 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Steve W, it might be hard to make references in discussions (like quoting). Also, one of the threads might fall off the list if one thread is busier. Also, we won't be successful at stopping anyone from posting anywhere. So we'll have two mismatching threads.

I just recommend that people print out or save the actual lessons.

As we go along here we'll do a better job at indexing on the first page. That'll handle the issues of being confusing IMHO.

The Chopin Thread is like 3100+ posts. We're a baby thread in comparison. Although I realize that many our posts are rather deep so it takes some frequent re-reading \:D
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1010389 - 01/07/08 05:56 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Seaside_Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2167
Loc: Blackpool, UK
OMG!!!

I'm away for a couple of weeks and we are on page 12 already!!!

Blimey, I've got a lot to catch up on here!! \:D


thanks guys


Lee \:\)
_________________________
Twitter: @Seaside_Lee

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#1010390 - 01/07/08 07:14 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jotur Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5559
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
 Quote:
Originally posted by Seaside_Lee:
OMG!!!

I'm away for a couple of weeks and we are on page 12 already!!!

Blimey, I've got a lot to catch up on here!! \:D


thanks guys


Lee \:\) [/b]
Yeah, me, too. But since I've already shoveled twice today, and my neighbor's shoveled once, and it's snowing again, I think I'll go make some supper, read thru the last 4 pages of this thread that I've printed out, and then - get in a little piano time \:\)

Oh, and I vote to keep it one long thread. I have a book on my piano bench \:\)

Cathy
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#1010391 - 01/07/08 09:56 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Jeff Bauer Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/03
Posts: 1718
Loc: Los Angeles
 Quote:
Originally posted by jazzwee:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Bauer:
Great topic Jazzwee. I have been following it with interest.

Would anyone here benefit from a downloadable MP3 of a back track without the piano part to play along with? I created a latin style version with acoustic guitar, percussion, and bass - it's a MIDI file, however I can convert it to MP3 with ease. It's arranged a little different, but nothing too difficult. [/b]
Jeff, I wondered when you would show up. That's a great idea. Please post it. I was going to eventually load a Band In the Box version of this as a play along but I have to reinstall BIAB and don't have much time. I may do it later.

By the way, guys, Jeff and I shared a couple of the same teachers. such a small world...

Please hang out with us Jeff. [/b]
Wow this topic is moving fast! I always played Autumn Leaves in Gmin, and when I saw this topic it encouraged me to play it in E min. I quickly learned that the shapes I am so accustomed to playing in G min weren't there in E min. Learning something in a different key makes it fun to re-invent the shapes and patterns that make up the solo.

Anyhow, I decided to give myself something to practice with, and figured I would share the recordings with the fine folks here. A few notes about the recording...

Here is the form: Intro chords - Head - shortened intro chords - solo over head 3 times - intro chords - guitar plays head, solo over second half of head - piano plays head - intro chords end out the song with the piano soloing.

The intro is the following chord progression:
|Emin |Amin/E |Bmaj/E |Emin Cmaj Dmaj| X3
|Emin |Amin/E |F#maj/E |Bsus4/E |
The first set of chords goes 3 times through, then the 4th introduces the F# major chord. After the intro, you are off and running with the normal autumn leaves chord progession you know and love.


Autumn Leaves MP3 with no piano

Original MIDI file

A note about the MIDI file. This was recorded on a Yamaha Clavinova CVP409. If you play it on something else, it's not going to sound anything like the recording.. hehe. Particularly if you open it up with windows media player, which will sound really awful.

The obvious advantage of the MIDI file is you can slow down, transpose, even view each individual track. I left my piano part in the MIDI file for reference.


Here is a link to the full audio file with the piano:
Autumn Leaves with piano

Have fun! I always found it easier to practice something like this with a backup band, so I will usually create a file like this when I practice a new tune, time permitting.
_________________________
Jeff Bauer | Keyboard Concepts

Yamaha | Schimmel | Bösendorfer | Knabe | Seiler | Restored Steinway

BauerHouse Productions

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#1010392 - 01/07/08 10:30 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
deeluk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Fort Collins, CO
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Bauer:
Anyhow, I decided to give myself something to practice with, and figured I would share the recordings with the fine folks here. A few notes about the recording...

Have fun! I always found it easier to practice something like this with a backup band, so I will usually create a file like this when I practice a new tune, time permitting.[/b]
Wow! Simply amazing. When it started, I thought to myself, hmmmm, this doesn't sound like Autumn Leaves. Maybe he uploaded the wrong file. That definitely has a great Latin feel to it. Really excellent! I loved the guitar and organ backing. And of course the percussion. Did you create the whole backing part on the Clavinova? I'd be really happy with myself if I was ever able to create something like that... For now, I'm greatly indebted to you for providing something like that that I can use as a learning tool. Many thanks.

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#1010393 - 01/07/08 11:12 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
Jeff, that's fantastic! A Latin Jazz version of Autumn Leaves! That's really cool. This is the first solo post too.

BTW - since it is available in MIDI, one could study Jeff's solo and figure out out he's soloing through the changes. You can watch the actual key presses using a free Midi Player called "Van Basco" Player. It is a free download on the web.

Jeff, I sold my keyboard so I don't have an electronic keyboard at the moment. Hoping to find a new Axe soon. Your recording stoked me to fix up my digital setup. Even my Zoom H4 isn't working too well so it's so frustrating to record.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1010394 - 01/07/08 11:55 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
THEORY – CHORDS WITH EXTENSIONS[/b]

While everyone is busy practicing the basic LH and RH for Autumn Leaves, it’s time for some theory instruction. In order to understand later lessons on voicings, it will be important to be well versed on Chord construction and in particular the adding of “Extensions”

Let’s get back to the “C” scale for reference once again. The C scale is made up of notes as follows (extended to a couple of octaves)::

C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C

What’s missing here are the black keys so just so we can visually remember them, I will put a mark (underscore) indicating a black key position. The C scale has no black keys in it. But in Jazz, we will oftentimes use notes that are not in the scale and this is part of the discussion of creating chords.

This is the same C scale but now with marks indicating where some other notes exist but are not part of the C scale (i.e. Db, Eb, Gb, Ab, Bb)..

C _ D _ E F _ G _ A _ B C _ D _ E F _ G _ A _ B C

This just demonstrates that the C scale (or any other major scale) is not symmetrical in appearance or even in intervals. Now go back to our previous scale degree lesson and you remember that chords built off different degrees have different qualities. Remember that roman numerals below indicate the degree of the scale where the chord is found.

I - C Major 7 (C Maj7)
C[/b] _ D _ E[/b] F _ G[/b] _ A _ B[/b] C _ D _ E F _ G _ A _ B C

II – D Minor 7 (Dm7)
C _ D[/b] _ E F[/b] _ G _ A[/b] _ B C[/b] _ D _ E F _ G _ A _ B C

III – E Minor 7 (Em7)
C _ D _ E[/b] F _ G[/b] _ A _ B[/b] C _ D[/b] _ E F _ G _ A _ B C

IV – F Major 7 (FM7)
C _ D _ E F[/b] _ G _ A[/b] _ B C[/b] _ D _ E[/b] F _ G _ A _ B C

V – G7 (G7)
C _ D _ E F _ G[/b] _ A _ B[/b] C _ D[/b] _ E F[/b] _ G _ A _ B C

VI – A Minor 7 (Am7)
C _ D _ E F _ G _ A[/b] _ B C[/b] _ D _ E[/b] F _ G[/b] _ A _ B C

VII – B Minor7 Flat 5 (Bm7b5) also known as B Half Diminished
C _ D _ E F _ G _ A _ B[/b] C _ D[/b] _ E F[/b] _ G _ A[/b] _ B C

* (_)Underscores are place holders for non-scale notes.

As complicated as it all seems, observe that all seventh chords (whether Major, Minor, Dominant, or Half Diminished) are formed simply by picking a starting scale note and then selecting every other note until you have a total of 4 notes.

For terminology purposes, a chord with the first 3 notes only as shown above (skipping the fourth note) are called Triads. In jazz, we will often refer to the full 4 notes when referring to a chord. The 4th note is referred to as the seventh of the chord so 4 note chords are referred to as Seventh Chords.

Let’s look at CMaj7 Again.

I - C Major 7 (C Maj7)
C[/b] _ D _ E[/b] F _ G[/b] _ A _ B[/b] C _ D _ E F _ G _ A _ B C

Here you can see we picked the 1st, 3rd, 5th and 7th note of the scale to construct this chord. Whichever chord we make (as shown in the Scale Degrees above), we will always refer to the 1st note as the Root, the 2nd note as the Third, the next as the Fifth, and the final note as the Seventh.

The intervals between notes are not the same between between each chord. For example compared to the II Degree (Dm7), you will notice that the intervals between notes is not the same. Each chord has it’s own quality and has a different sound because of the asymmetry of the scale.

(See interval between C and E in CMaj7 compared to interval between D and F in Dm7). Later on we will pay attention to this interval by notating the quality of the chord interval. For example, CMaj7 is made of 1, 3,5,7, while a Dm7 is made up of 1,b3,5,b7. Count the intervals above including the underscores and you will see the difference in intervals.

I will not try to explain this much further as I'm sure most of you are past recognizing a minor third interval (b3) from a major third interval(b7).

Continued...[/b]
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
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#1010395 - 01/08/08 12:17 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Elssa Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1567
Loc: NY
.

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#1010396 - 01/08/08 12:22 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
THEORY – CHORDS WITH EXTENSIONS (2)[/b]

Going back to our same CMaj7 chord, I will now continue to make up to seven notes of the chord to include "Extensions".

I - C Major 7 (C Maj7)
C[/b] _ D _ E[/b] F _ G[/b] _ A _ B[/b] C _ D[/b] _ E F[/b] _ G _ A[/b] _ B C


You can see that I'm following the same rule which is skipping every other note in the scale. What I've arrived at is a chord with a 9, 11, 13. If you count the notes starting from the root you will see why they are called that. So now our CMaj7 chord has the following notes:

1,3,5,7,9,11,13

This is now a major chord with ALL the possible extensions.

But Wait! Some of the notes are Repeats so 9, 11, 13 are the same as the notes in 2,4, and 6 of the chord. Just remember that in Jazz, a seventh chord is not referred to as having a 2,4 or 6. It is always 9, 11, 13 to indicate that they are Extensions of the original chord.

Instead of arranging the chord as:

1,3,5,7,9,11,13


You can see that you can also arrange it as

1,9,3,11,5,13,7

...since the notes are identical. This is the most common representation of a jazz chord and needs to be memorized. So once again, 9,11,13 are physically the same notes as 2,4,6.

I - C Major 7 (C Maj7)
C _ D _ E F _ G _ A _ B[/b] C _ D _ E F _ G _ A _ B C

Now you probably wondered why I included those underscores originally. Those underscores show that some notes can be flatted or sharped.

For example, the 9th of the chord (D), can be b9, or #9 as there are underscores (or non-scale notes on either side of it).

F, the 11th can be moved to #11. But there is no b11 as there is no non-scale key there.

A, the 13th can be b13, but by convention we do not ever refer to a #13. Instead that is called a b7.

So once again to summarize, here are the possible extensions to a chord.

b9,9,#9,11,#11,b13,13,b7

#9 can also be referred to as b3 in a minor chord context.

#11 is also frequently referred to as b5 (and we do it frequently in Autumn Leaves). Thus F#m7b5 is the same as F#m7(+11). Notice how I used + instead of sharp. Otherwise it gets confusing to see two sharps in there so we know that +11 is the same as #11.


We have the 12 Tone Chromatic Scale![/b]

Now let me put all the possible extensions together with the original 1,3,5,7 of the chord. What do we have now?

Half Steps/Label
1 1
2 b9
3 9
4 #9 or b3
5 3
6 11
7 #11 or b5
8 5
9 b13
10 13
11 b7
12 7

This is the chromatic scale. You can start on any root note and you can make a chord if you memorize all these interval markings. Each item is a half step in the scale.


Now at this point, you may not understand why I discussed all this. This is quite important to voicing a chord.

For example, in Autumn Leaves, we might more specifically state that the CMaj7 in that tune is actually CMaj7#11 or CMaj7(+11). What this is telling you is that if you play a CMaj7 and then include the 11 (same as 4, remember?) that it should be played sharped (F#).

Extensions are very important to Jazz and these symbols of intervals is the foundation of much of Jazz theory. So learn this and you're halfway there.

Now one other thing. This example is of a C scale. Don't assume that those underscores in my scale charts are always black keys. They have nothing to do with black keys. They stand for non-scale notes.

As we already discussed heavily in this thread, the G scale is:
G A B C D E F# G.
So the 7th of this scale is F# or a black key. Thus a b7 would be F.

So get used to the geometry. In essence you have to know the shape of every scale, but at least in Autumn Leaves, you need to only know the G scale for now. I'm sure you can add this to C scale as everyone will by now be extremely familiar with the C scale.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1010397 - 01/08/08 04:57 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
LaValse Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 1224
Loc: Mumbles, Wales
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Bauer:
Here is a link to the full audio file with the piano:
Autumn Leaves with piano
[/b]
Wow! awesome... what a great resource - thanks!

\:\)

I'm going to try and load the midi into my new FP-7 and see what it does. Presumably if the midi implementions differ I can edit the midi file with something... I've been fiddling with the FP-7 session partner to try and get something to play along to, but w/o success.
_________________________
http://uk.youtube.com/user/sailwavedev

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#1010398 - 01/08/08 07:06 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Kangamangusuk Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 18
Loc: East Yorkshire
Jeff,

Just listened to your Latin rendition of AL on my computer & positively enjoyed it.

I now can't wait to load it up on my own Clavinova & hear it again using its voices & speakers. I also hope to learn a lot from the midi file. Thanks for assisting the study by providing your expertise. Greatly appreciated.

David

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#1010399 - 01/08/08 10:01 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
deeluk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Fort Collins, CO
 Quote:
Originally posted by LaValse:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Bauer:
Here is a link to the full audio file with the piano:
Autumn Leaves with piano
[/b]
Wow! awesome... what a great resource - thanks!

\:\)

I'm going to try and load the midi into my new FP-7 and see what it does. Presumably if the midi implementions differ I can edit the midi file with something... I've been fiddling with the FP-7 session partner to try and get something to play along to, but w/o success. [/b]
I got it to play on my Yamaha XS8. But it lost quite a bit in the process. The drums turned into normal drums instead of congas. The guitar was pretty different, I think. And some of the mix stuff. But it works pretty well as something to play along with. I bet I could edit the MIDI data a bit to get some of that flair and style back. I've created my own backing tracks as well. But definitely nothing as elaborate as this.

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#1010400 - 01/09/08 12:33 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
LESSON 4 - SOLO PIANO/BALLAD IDEAS[/b]

LH[/b]

On the LH, arpeggiate the Root, 5th and 7th of each chord. It's the same as the 1/7 we've been discussing here but putting a 5th in between.

You can also do a rolling Tenth by arpeggiating the Root, 5th and Tenth (3rd an octave above the root) or Root, 7th and Tenth.

Am7
Root - A
5th - E
7th - G
10th - C

D7
Root - D
5th - A
7th - C
10th - F#

GMaj7
Root - G
5th - D
7th - F#
10th - B

CMaj7
Root - C
5th - G
7th - B
10th - E

F#m7b5
Root - F
5th (b5) - C
7th - E
10th - A

B7b9
Root - B
5th - F#
7th - A
10th - Eb

Em7
Root - E
5th - B
7th - D
10th - G


RH[/b]

Assuming that you're not playing jazz style doing a full improvisation, you can fill in the music by doing triad arpeggios of the G Scale.

For example, you can go through ascending triads in the different scale degrees of G as follows:

G B D
A C E
B D F#
C E G
D F# G
E G B
F# G B

(Advanced Jazz Note: BTW - These ascending triads, when done as Triplet 8ths in a Jazz context is something frequently done by Bill Evans. The triplet run gives it a rhythmic contrast to the 4/4 rhythm)

If you do this fast it sounds like you really know what you're doing. You can try other patterns like triads going down or mixing up the triads in some way. You won't sound dissonant no matter what you do because you're playing 'diatonic' chords in the scale of the tune (G).

You can mix it up with little variations of the melody.

You can play the melody in Octaves on the RH for a full sound. Or play just the 3rd of each LH chord as a root and the RH playing Root 5th 8th of that note.

Now mind you, this is absolutely not jazz. But since some of you asked, this is one possible idea for casual/ballad solo piano playing.

Perhaps Elssa can describe her method as well since she posted music in this style.
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#1010401 - 01/09/08 08:08 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
LaValse Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 1224
Loc: Mumbles, Wales
It's just a thought (that may have been mentioned already) but there are *lots* of online jazz stations out there - I've been listening to them the last few days while I'm working via iTunes instead of BBC Radio 3. Just letting it wash over me - often find the old foot tapping along w/o realising it... \:\)

KPLU at present...
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#1010402 - 01/09/08 11:40 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
I updated the index. Let me know if I missed anything important...
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#1010403 - 01/09/08 01:20 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
stegerson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Springfield, Missouri
Jeff, that was a fantastic piece!
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#1010404 - 01/09/08 01:55 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
stegerson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Springfield, Missouri
Jazzwee,

I had my Real Book open last night and I remembered what you said about the dominate 7th as a flag to figure out what key you're in. I checked Desafinado and the C7 gives me the key of F, so far so good.

Then I checked Ipanema (I was feeling Jobim!)which is in the same key but I didn't find a C7 although the 3rd measure did have a G7.

Misty is a real mystery! I found Bb7 (which works) but there is also an Eb7 and a Db7. All of these seem to be transition chords as they are found on the third beat of there respective measures.

A bit off topic but curious minds want to know!
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No, I'm not a student of music, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express with a piano bar last night.
What I play: Mostly a Kawai ES4, sometimes on the Steger & Sons.

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#1010405 - 01/09/08 02:27 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1368
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
Ipanema: It's in F. (there's only one flat - so it's either D minor or F major - in this case F-major)
You won't find a C7 as Jobim as done a - drumroll - tritone substitute! Exchanged the C7 for a F#7 (Gb7).
That's what gives (amongst others) the song such a wonderful brazil lilt.

Misty is in the key of Eb. There's three flats - which means either Eb-major or C-minor.


To figure out a songs key one can also check the last bar.


End of Misty a Eb + 1 bar with a II-V turnaround.

Tritone substitution: also called "Diabolus in Musica" in the good-old days is something that we jazzers love to do. The principle is that one can substitute a dominant chord for its tritone equivalent. C7 for a Gb7. But that's worth a thread of it's own.
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#1010406 - 01/09/08 05:12 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
ADVANCED THEORY - IGNORE[/b]

Stegerson, Chris Bell is correct. These types of tunes use Tritone Substitution on the dominants. The clue to this is a lack of a ii-V-I progression. Typically it will be a ii-bII-I.

For example if the ii-V-I is
Dm7 - G7 - CMaj7

A tritone substituted version will be:
Dm7 - Db7 - Cmaj7

We don't have to go in full Tritone substitution theory right now but just recognize the unique harmonic progression (Chromatic downwards). You can and will do Tritone (and other) substitutions on AL later on but we'll leave it for later on this thread.

How about using the other Jazz Thread for any general theory discussion unrelated to AL? Just for a little separation.
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#1010407 - 01/09/08 06:18 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
bluekeys Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 1337
Just in case there are other noobs out there with authority issues who pay extra attention to the posts that say "ignore," the link that Elssa posted a while back had a very clear discussion of tritone substitution. It's in section AU 5.

http://esvc001419.wic024u.server-web.com/articles/aut.htm

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#1010408 - 01/09/08 06:23 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7096
Loc: So. California
bluekeys, you forgot to put Ignore[/b] on your response... \:D \:D
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#1010409 - 01/09/08 07:03 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
stegerson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Springfield, Missouri
 Quote:

How about using the other Jazz Thread for any general theory discussion unrelated to AL? Just for a little separation.
Yes, you are right. I have two kids running around so sometimes I'm lucky to get a posting out at all!!

Thanks for the great responses, they are greatly helping my understanding.

I presently have no way to upload mp3's or midi's. I hope to fix this soon. Again, great thread!
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What I play: Mostly a Kawai ES4, sometimes on the Steger & Sons.

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