Good job Rosa! You're doing it right. Now I would do this with a metronome so you have a solid Rock steady tempo on the LH. You'll have to turn your LH into a metronome. This is a long term process. It's like juggling to keep the LH steady while having a counterpoint melody on the RH with a slightly different Rhythm. The RH does not play Charleston.

Good. At least I am on the right track and can move on.

I don't have a metronome but I suppose I can use this one online to get the steady rock tempo to train my LH.

http://www.metronomeonline.com/

Good work Rosa2007, glad to hear that you're working on the exercise!
Suggestion; try and hold the RH note (for 2 bars) whilst the LH plays the comp.
And I concur on Jazzwee's suggestion about getting a metronome, it's definitely worthwhile for improving your playing. (well actually for all of us . . )
:-)

Lesson 8 - Scale Exercise 1 [/b]

So . . here's a little scale exercise to aid you in your working on those solos.
Do it straight, do it with swing. RH at first, then put LH together.
pdf midi
The midi is there for you to hear it, but don't imitate it! It's stiff as a lot of midi gets
Enjoy!

The exercise is to show how a little knowledge goes far. It's built on the root-scale: G major (or a sort of E minor, let's not get into discussions on the different minors scales, that's a whole other level . . ) and using only (well, just about) those notes. g a b c d e f# g
For those of you who'll look closely at the scales will discover what notes I use to base each scale run on.

You can of course play the RH 1 octave up, vary between high and low, play 16ths (that'll be 2 octaves then), play triplets, play 1 bar 8th notes, 1 bar 16ths, 1 bar nothing, etc etc. Create your own variations. Heck play 2 bars my exercise, and then play 2 bars of whatever you come up with!
So I challenge you all to do this!

Don't forget to post your files!

Cool, Chris. Thanks for that. My improv needs some spice. Sticking to the Gmaj scale has been a bit repetitive. I've tried vertical vs. horizontal, pentatonic, blues. This adds another little dimension.

So, analyzing the exercise a bit.... In bar 19 we have Em7 - A7. If we consider this a ii-V in D, we can see that the scale in fact matches the key of D (F# and C#). Similarly, in bar 20, we have Dm7 - G7, a ii-V in C. Hence the naturals. What I don't understand is the D# in bars 7 and 11 over Em7. Is this coming from "outside"? Or is it just a part of a repeating motif?

One more question: bar 22. Not quite sure how to understand this one. Obviously, the scale is derived from the key of A. But how do we get there? B7 - Em7, almost a ii-V in A? Something in F# minor?

oh no! don't analyze! sorry, couldn't resist it)

Yep, and D is the dominant to G. (but what comes next is not D but a Dm. Which is a nice little shift. But it doesn't stop there . .
The C# is put there also as a nice halftone slide up to d and then the f (which is then the b3 of Dm)

yes it could be considered a II-V in C.
But G7 could also be a tritone substitue for C#7 which then leads us back to the next chord F#m7b5.
Tritone substitution will come soon.

Good question. I put a D# in for several reasons, first I like the sound of it I like the cromatic movement upward, it creates tension, it's not meant to be held (then it would clash to much with a D natural in the LH), but as a passing tone. Also, if you play the notes: D# E G you get a blues touch to it (in fact nearly every bar in this exercise can be used over another bar; "what does he mean?!??" I'll be brief; the bars that you play over Em7 can also be played over CMaj7, don't believe me? try and you'll see. I'll get into the theory of that later), also a D# lead up towards an E (and I'm studying Chopin just now, and this is something that he did a lot; also, if you study some of either Keith Jarrett or Bill Evans, you'll find this in there too.)

sorry but no. the scale up (i believe you mean the b c# d#) is in the key of Em. If you look in the melody of AL, the first bar of B7b9 has those notes. (which actually makes the B7b9 wrong, should be B9). AL is in the key of E minor. It is built on the both ascending and descending melodic minor scale. These shifts between these 2 scales is what makes AL into a fantastic piece of music; a marvelous composition. Remember that is a French composition, and a chanson to boot, the song reeks of classical harmony. Kosma himself was a highly trained pianist and composer from Hungary. He studied with Bartok and Eisler. So we are treading on a finely tuned work of music.

There is so much information, it will take weeks to digest all.

I received Jazz Keyboard Harmony by P.DeGreg, it's a very interesting book and there is a lot of stuff to practice.

Serge

Weeks? Don't worry. There's months of stuff here so far. So don't feel pressured to do it to the last lesson. It's impossible unless you already know the earlier stuff. We try to generate new information only as we see how some of you are doing. If we sense that someone is tackling the latest lessons then we'll make a new lesson.

Chris put a focus on Solos so we can light a fire in that direction.

When there's a practice lull (because the last lesson is too difficult), we'll drop a little bit of theory on the side.

So far, the lessons have remained sequenced roughly in the order that I would have liked to have learned it.

Serge, there is no need to be too overwhelmed by the information. We can just take it at our pace one step at a time and that's why I am starting at lesson 1 and not skip any lessons along the way.

I am not following any books so I have only this thread to depend on.

And the neat thing about this thread is that the info is streamlined to help us focus on the real issues and also some of this stuff are not taught in books, so better than that you cannot get elsewhere.

In fact I've got 30+ jazz books but I don't know how to make good use of them, even though some have CD audios.

The problem I find is that those of us who don't have a live teacher, we just practise things in close closet and never know whether we are doing it correctly.

I sure will once I get a hang of it in decent presentation.

Sure good to know there are people ahead of us who are willing to point us the way, what we are doing right and what we are doing wrong. Thank you you both.

Rosa

...yes metronome is on my shopping list.

Lesson 9 - 'Playing in the Pocket'[/b]

Early on in the discussion of swing, we discussed Eighth note playing and accenting. Clearly a certain precision is required if one is to exactly know how to distribute time between each note in a pair of eighth notes, or supply an accent.

That precision cannot be arrived at without a solid foundation of time, or in jazz lingo, we say "Playing in the Pocket". Playing a Charleston Rhythm, and especially playing a line on the RH and then contrasting against a LH with a different rhythmic feel is a challenge.

So part of learning about jazz is to develop this solid time. Thus jazz practice needs to be a combination of playing solo piano, and the other part is to play with a rhythm section. There have been several rhythm backing tracks provided above.

Solid time needs to be developed for each hand. Believe or not good rhythm is a technique. And to me the advanced understanding of this is getting a 'Groove'. This is understanding time to its full potential. And that it is to understand placement of a line could be right on the beat, behind the beat, or in front of the beat and understanding the effect of this. It gives the tune a life that goes beyond the mechanics of playing an exact rhythm.

There is definitely an exactness to this but the jazz masters understand this to a greater level as their placement of a note within the context of the exact time generates emotions of tension and release. Listen closely to jazz music and you will sense that there's more to it than mechanics.

So having good solid time is important. How is this developed?

Here's some techniques that are often mentioned:

How to Develop Good Time[/b]

1. Play against a metronome that clicks on beat 2 & 4. This gives one a good swing training and helps in understanding the Charleston rhythm.

2. Time has to be internalized so your body starts to recognize an internal clock. I've tried this method and it appears to have helped me. When driving a car or sitting quietly somewhere, I had earphones connected to an electronic metronome, and I tapped a pulse (at various tempos), until my time improved.

3. When using the metronome, first starting off tapping on every click, then have a click only on 2 & 4. This gives you a chance to adjust your tempo feel in those empty moments of no click but you have to tap. Expand this to click only once per measure. And suddenly cut the volume of the metronome, and keep tapping. Restore the metronome back and see if you're still in time. This is hard at first.

4. Getting good time is about learning to "SUBDIVIDE". This is why you do 2 & 4. You learn to subdivide the time between every other beat. The more detailed your subdivision the easier to keep time. For example, having an empty space for an entire measure in 4/4, it is hard to keep time. But if you are counting 8th note pulses in your head, it is easier.

5. Don't count eighth note pulses as
1 & 2 & 3 & 4
because the words for these numbers are not even when said verbally. So use some sort of word repeated word pattern, like:

Ta-Ki-Ta-Ki-Ta-Ki-Ta-Ki

6. One of the problems of developing good rhythm is to even know that you're playing out of tempo. A beginner cannot hear slight time issues. YOU HAVE TO TRAIN YOURSELF TO HEAR YOUR TIME ERRORS. Once you hear the mistakes in your time, you will have improved. This is a never ending process BTW, because the better you get, even minute time problems are more obvious to you. So training with a metronome or rhythm section is a continuous process.

7. Record yourself. This way you will learn to hear your rhythm issues. Again you need to hear the errors, after which you will have improved.

8. It takes time to internalize solid time. But if you start practicing now, you will notice improvement in a couple of months. By a year's time, you will notice great development.

OK Chris, I have taken you up on your challenge. And what a challenge it is! I won't tell you how many hours I've worked to get the speed up to a turtle pace of 60 (You play it at 120).

Here it is with Band in the Box drums:

http://www.box.net/shared/dowsvhps88

Before I spend more hours in working up the speed, I would appreciate your feedback. Be as cruel as you want....I'm in here for the long haul... or at least until I sound like Keith Jarrett ;-)

ps jazzwee - lesson 9 came at a great time for me -- thank you!

Very good Barb! But you're the Swingin' Barb and you forgot to swing

Anyway, I'm just looking for the opportunity to remind everyone about swing eight again. Just remember, you're playing eighth notes here (sounds like quarter notes at this tempo) but this means you have to swing the eights. Accent every upbeat. Very legato. BTW, the slower one plays, the more exaggerated the swing.

This is very good and practical scale practice. Make sure you analyze what notes are being played on each chord.

Keep at it Barb. Great work!

Right, jazzwee. The swing was definitely absent. I spent lots of time just working on getting that left hand into the correct groove.

So, forward march with this. Do you recommend I still keep even eighth notes, but now accent the 'and' (those upbeats)?

If you have some free time (yeah, right), it would be nice to hear you play this at a slow speed with that cool swing of yours.

Barb

Ahh sounding like KJ . . . not a bad inspiration.

I agree with Jazzwee, swing swing swing.

Barb, it's great that you're doing the exercise and you've got it's basics. Now, do it again, this time swing the RH

This time play the first chord (the chord on the 1) a little shorter and lighter, put the emphasis on the second chord (the 2-and). It's great that you are using drums as your metronome (btw; it's not me playing at 120, it's the computer generated from my notation app) but I feel that the sounds and the beat you are using is a tad bit heavy. If you have something like "Jazzkit" then use it. Maybe a nice cymbal going . . .
Also, beware so that you're not rushing the beat, try and "hang" back.

Keep up the good work!

Barb, my own tendency is to play straight once I get near 150bpm (unless I'm trying to sound like Bill Evans or Wynton Kelly). But I was taught to always accent.

Many teachers teach an exaggerated swing at the beginning and then as the player matures, more personal preference sets in. But I think, in general that most swing is not exaggerated as the term 'corny' is used. So here, I try not to emphasize the swing ratio as much as the accent.

Barb, I'm 'recording impaired' right now so I'm trying to get a new digital for that purpose. I have too many kids running around and it is almost impossible to find a quiet moment to record with lots of background noise!

Thank you Chris and Jazzwee. Your feedback is very much appreciated!

Barb

.

Absolutely rintincop. In fact, it doesn't even mean I could keep the same swing feel throughout. I'd probably shift back and forth on swing ratios as this not machine like. But, at that BPM, I will have the "tendency" to head towards the straighter end of things. No other reason than that's how I was taught.

All this as you know is a matter of taste. So please feel free to decide how you want to apply it based on emulating someone you like. Just don't forget the accent part.

Jazzwee - Regarding Lesson 9 above, I tried saying the 1 & 2 & versus the Ta-Ki-Ta-Ki. When I count 1 & 2 &, it appears to be even. When I say Ta-Ki-Ta-Ki, the Ta is longer than the Ki. Very strange, indeed

Not strange Barb, yes Ta and Ki are not even. But heck, it swings!

Use any combination of words that will achieve the purpose and you're very smart in understanding that some syllables have a longer sound and some have a shorter sound.

I learned Ta-Ki from some Rhythmic CD lesson, I bought once. Since you're not really saying it out loud, it would be best that it not be a complex word

But on saying 1 & 2 & 3 & 4, let me just say that in the middle of a solo, you're not going to be able to say any words to yourself since it is more of a pulse you're looking for. It's hard to think about saying actual words when you're busy doing something else.

Also, it seems to be that TOOOOO sounds longer than WUN.

Nice going Barb.

http://www.box.net/shared/ym0vg6xc8w

:rolleyes: I tried to 'swing' mine but it sounds kinda funny cuz I tried to accent the 2+ and 4+ also.

I only did A section to make sure I am on the right track before continuing.

Q: When we hit that 2nd beat of LH Charleston, is it supposed to come down slightly after the swing of the 2+ of the RH or do they come down together at the same time?

Rosa

Hi Rosa, you need to accent EVERY +. Not just 2+ and 4+. So it's every other beat.

Again the reason we do this is because this scale exercise is made up of 8th notes. Handling of Eighth notes (swing) is the biggest difference between jazz styling and classical.

If you can do it, it's better to practice this faster because it's hard to swing playing at 60bpm. Shoot for over 100bpm.

Don't over exaggerate the oompah-oompah so much. That's what we've been referring to as the swing ratio where one note is longer than the other (the downbeat being longer than the upbeat). As in discussions earlier, you will learn what a good ratio is of upbeat and downbeat based on your own preference later. But concentrate mostly on the accent.

This is a technique issue BTW. It is hard to develop the control to make notes swing consistently to the point of being automatic. There might even be arm strain for some because of overpushing on those accents.

Please feel free to practice RH only. Or LH can do Whole Notes. It's pretty hard to think of Charleston on the LH and Swing on the RH initially. Perfect each one inpendently first.

Here we are again - Day 2 --- many more hours of practice have been put in. It's a bit faster (at 80), plus I have added that swing. My mind kept saying to accent the offbeat and to lighten up that left hand beat 1. Funny how the mind can be thinking all of these things, but the finished product doesn't always sound as it should.

http://www.box.net/shared/qb6btmaskk

As always, feedback is most welcome.

Hey Rosa - thanks for posting. I'm glad you are tackling this project. I no longer feel so alone!

Not bad Barb! Not bad at all! You deserve the name Swingin' Barb.

So just shoot for a tempo over 100bpm. You have to get to the point where 150bpm is an 'average tempo'. Don't rush to get there since technique has to be built. As I mentioned before, as you play faster, the swing becomes less but the accent continues and then at 200bpm, there's no longer accenting as it starts to sound like 16th's.

A good medium tempo for Autumn Leaves is somewhere around 120bpm.

Keep practicing this you don't have to think about your swing. BTW listen to Bill Evans swing and it's just what you're doing but at a tempo of 150-180bpm.

Thank you, jazzweee. Funny you should mention Bill Evans. I do listen to him a lot. I've been thinking of him as I play this little scale exercise. The scale passage over the harmony reminds me of something he would play.I guess that is what has kept me glued to this exercise.

Yes, I'll be working up the speed on this exercise. Then I will tackle Autumn Leaves with RH swing and this LH comping rhythm. For some reason, it is easier for me to get the technique down with an exercise such as this one, as opposed to jumping into AL. But, I WILL get there!

BTW, this past summer my husband and I attended the Jamey Aebersold week long workshop. One of the piano instructors there had taken lessons with Bill Evans.

Barb, both you and your husband are doing piano jazz? In any case, having the hubby join you makes this a more fun experience.

The instructors at Aebersold are a Who's Who list so I'm sure they were all good.

BTW some of the stuff on this thread is meant to be practiced simultaneously. Like Swing is really something practiced continuously and for the longer term, regardless of what the tune is.

Another are the Walking Bass, 2+3 voicings, Rootless voicings. And not necessarily practiced over Autumn Leaves. Walking Bass for example, is easier to practice over a Blues progression.

Jazzwee - Those piano instructors at Aebersold were a bit mind blowing. During one of the master classes, you would think it was Bill Evans himself playing "My Romance"

My hubby is a jazz vibist. We plan on playing "out" together. I'm in the process of playing catch up with him. So glad this thread is here for me!

No doubt Barb. Names like David Baker, or Hal Galper are nothing to sneeze at. With a hubby to catch up with that must be very motivating!

.

rintincop - Thank you so much for passing this on to us. It is an amazing station. I've bookmarked the page and have it playing now. Deciding what to listen to at dinner will be easy... we'll just turn up the volume on our computer speakers - what fun!