Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 22 of 124 < 1 2 ... 20 21 22 23 24 ... 123 124 >
Topic Options
#1010740 - 02/02/08 08:41 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
Chris - Very cool indeed That was definitely an eye opener. Sounds great over Autumn Leaves. Thank you for sharing.
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

Top
(ads P/S)
Petrof Pianos

piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1010741 - 02/02/08 01:13 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
stegerson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Springfield, Missouri
Let's try this:

http://www.box.net/shared/f5ys0fack4

I finally input the song by hand into Anvil so I could hear it the pattern very clearly.

Even if this isn't 100%, I plan on trying some of the other lessons this weekend for diversity sake.

I really appreciate this thread!
_________________________
No, I'm not a student of music, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express with a piano bar last night.
What I play: Mostly a Kawai ES4, sometimes on the Steger & Sons.

Top
#1010742 - 02/02/08 01:59 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6991
Loc: So. California
You're getting close Stegerson but it's actually not bad even the way it is. RH is PERFECT. So no issues there.

This is how you see what you're doing. Starting counting 1234 on the word 'Leaves'. And then listen to where your chord comping lands.

I hear it at 1 and 3. Sometimes at 1 and almost 3+, but this variation could just be because we don't have a metronome going. This comping style is fine but the 2+ gives it that off time swing. You don't have the 1+ issue from before now so you're almost perfect with this.

You need to tap your fingers as I laid out in an earlier post to clearly see where the LH has to be offset from 2.

Here's another approach I'm going to invent for you right now.

Say: Chick[/b]-Chick-A[/b]-Chick-Chick, (repeat). While you're doing this tap an even 1234 with your RH.

Kind of like the sound of the Drum Hi-Hat. Hit the chord on the bolded word. You can't do this in isolation. It's the relationship with the RH that embeds it into your memory and is also a hand independence thing.

Ted, you can practice this simultaneously while going into other lessons. No need to just work on this. And you're really close here.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1010743 - 02/02/08 02:35 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
Ted - Let me pass on a little practice trick I did for that LH rhythm.

Set the metronome to 120, or slower (I think I set it to 80 when I first started). The clicks will be for eighth notes. So, there would be 8 clicks per measure - 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & .

The LH will strike on click 1 and 4. Of course, you will be playing twice as slow as what you are doing now, but, at least the left hand will get used to striking at the correct moment.

Then, keep increasing that metronome speed and gradually set it for quarter notes. If your eighth note speed was 120, then set the quarter notes for 60. If all goes well, inch it up to your normal speed of 120.

Hope this doesn't sound too confusing. This is the approach I took.
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

Top
#1010744 - 02/02/08 03:36 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Alene Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/05
Posts: 78
Loc: Oregon
\:\) Hi gang: This is my first attempt at a solo improv so looking for some more guidance before I keep practicing in the wrong way maybe.

I used the rhythm section but played the shells in my left hand and improvised with the right. I'm not sure this is what I'm supposed to be doing so can use all the help I can get. :rolleyes:

http://www.box.net/shared/brahk1hs80
Thanks!
Alene

Top
#1010745 - 02/02/08 06:14 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
Good for you Alene - Welcome to solo land. I have not yet added the left hand when I improvise. Right hand by itself is challenging enough. You are definitely brave to try it hands together.

Keep up the good work \:\)

ps I'm sure jazzwee will give you a bunch of great tips.
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

Top
#1010746 - 02/02/08 06:25 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
deeluk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Fort Collins, CO
OK, finally back in business generating MP3s. Here's the track I've been using to practice RH only improv. It's a smorgasbord of practice sessions. This one has 2+3 chords on a tonewheel organ in the background with my improv over the top. I intend to add some rootless practice comping in there as well. Anyway, my latest improv attempt trying to incorporate more of the ideas here.

http://www.box.net/shared/oaxda5lsk8

Top
#1010747 - 02/03/08 12:49 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6991
Loc: So. California
Alene, very nice! Another true improvisation! Good job!

OK how do we improve this? First is it possible to record the LH comping and rhythm so you're just doing your right hand? That would be better. When soloing, especially early on, the LH isn't necessary. Usually you have to be advanced to actually solo with the LH going.

When you record next time, see if you lower the volume of the Rhythm section so the melody on the RH sticks out.

Now you forgot to accent your offbeat eight notes so the swing disappeared. I know, you're busy concentrating on the notes \:D but try to maintain those accents.

Then give it another try. This time with full attention to the RH.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1010748 - 02/03/08 12:55 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6991
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by deeluk:
OK, finally back in business generating MP3s. Here's the track I've been using to practice RH only improv. It's a smorgasbord of practice sessions. This one has 2+3 chords on a tonewheel organ in the background with my improv over the top. I intend to add some rootless practice comping in there as well. Anyway, my latest improv attempt trying to incorporate more of the ideas here.

http://www.box.net/shared/oaxda5lsk8 [/b]
It's really exciting when you guys improve 100% with every attempt. It's amazing. At this pace, you'll see major development in short time.

I see you're getting more confident here Deeluk. You are all hanging together here development wise.

So now it's time to attempt what Barb did which is to shift to using Chord Tones. 1,3,5,7 of each chord. Use only those for now.

Next don't forget to accent the eighth note offbeat.

Another thing that I want you to try, is do not start your phrase on beat 1 of each chord. Try doing it on the beat before (beat 4 or beat 4+), referred to as a pickup note. This is important advice because the phrases will feel boxy if started always on the first beat. Occasionally it's fine but repeatedly, it will sound boring.

Good job Deeluk. Gotta put that expensive synth/workstation to use \:D
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1010749 - 02/03/08 01:16 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Alene Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/05
Posts: 78
Loc: Oregon
\:\) Thanks Jazzwee and Barb for your comments and now I know what to work on.

Everyone is doing fantastic and just hope I can learn this too. \:\)
Alene

Top
#1010750 - 02/03/08 01:32 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
deeluk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Fort Collins, CO
Alene, what sort of setup are you using? If you have a keyboard with a built-in sequencer, you can put your LH comping on one track, then play it back and solo over it. I loop a 32-bar track for AL and just practice over and over. And over and over. And over... \:\)

Or, just take the combo MIDI file jazzwee posted a while back and load that into your sequencer. Mute the piano track and play your stuff over that. Let us know and we'll help you figure something out.

Top
#1010751 - 02/03/08 10:50 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
jazzwee - This has been a challenge. It has taken hours and hours this weekend to finally land on those correct tones on the offbeats. In fact, I have one error in this one - and I'll let you catch it ;\)

http://www.box.net/shared/ohnv5y1skg

It was hard trying to get some swing into it as I was so worried about those upbeat tones. I tried to accent the eighths, detach the quarters and release those eighth notes a few times for that staccato phrase ending. Lots to think about at 140 bpm.

Even though I made that one offbeat error, it is an improvement for me --- I had been making 5 - 8 errors in my other tries.

This has been tough. What do you suggest for improvements?
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

Top
#1010752 - 02/03/08 11:19 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
rosa2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 168
Loc: Hong Kong
Well....look what happened. I was just away for one day....and a few pages down already and 3 great solos handed in.

Good job Deeluk, Alene and Barb!
You are all sounding GREAT.

OK...Here is my first attempt of a solo:


http://www.box.net/shared/ik9tp0fk88

Unfortunately I don't have all these fancy rhythm background music you have, so mine is very clean -- straight RH solo \:D .


Rosa \:\)

Top
#1010753 - 02/03/08 11:19 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
deeluk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Fort Collins, CO
Barb, that sounded pretty good to me! I missed the error. I liked how you played through the quick 2 chords/measure change. I always fumble around with that one.

I was struggling with this last night too. I was asking myself constantly, "Were those eighths or quarters? Which ones were on the up and which ones were down? Did I even hit chord tones?". If I just played simple 2 or 3 note phrases, I could get it right sometimes. But man, it was tough. More practice....

Top
#1010754 - 02/03/08 11:21 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
rosa2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 168
Loc: Hong Kong
 Quote:


Even though I made that one offbeat error, it is an improvement for me --- I had been making 5 - 8 errors in my other tries.

Barb -- you only have ONE error?

Mine is full of errors.

Oh well...that's part of the FUN -- hide all my errors.

Rosa :p

Top
#1010755 - 02/03/08 11:56 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
deeluk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Fort Collins, CO
 Quote:
Originally posted by rosa2007:
 Quote:


Even though I made that one offbeat error, it is an improvement for me --- I had been making 5 - 8 errors in my other tries.

Barb -- you only have ONE error?

Mine is full of errors.

Oh well...that's part of the FUN -- hide all my errors.

Rosa :p [/b]
Rosa, great job! You're ahead of the game playing the LH and RH together in your solo. When I try that, everything falls apart. So, don't discount your achievement here!

Top
#1010756 - 02/03/08 12:44 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Alene Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/05
Posts: 78
Loc: Oregon
\:\) Hi: Deeluk, I have a Roland KR-5 digital piano and I know you can do different tracks and stuff but I haven't a clue (guess maybe I should read the book?) as to how to do it. I have a floppy drive but can only record into it and don't know how I could record the left hand and rhythm and then record over the top of that.

The same with using Jazzwee's combo, how would I download it and still be able to record? It's probably simple but something I've never done so sounds complicated.LOL! Sort of like playing Jazz style and improvising....Whew, this is hard!

I'll read the book and try to figure it out but all help is appreciated. Thanks Deeluk.

Rosa and Barb....Those were terrific recordings! You both sounded great. Everyone seems to be learning so much.
Alene

Top
#1010757 - 02/03/08 12:55 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
 Quote:
Originally posted by deeluk:
I was struggling with this last night too. I was asking myself constantly, "Were those eighths or quarters? Which ones were on the up and which ones were down? Did I even hit chord tones?". [/b]
Deeluk, Rosa, Alene, Ted --- It helps to print out your solo. That is the only way to see where things are going wrong.

When I said that I hit a wrong note, I saw it in the printout. I was on an Em7 chord and hit a d# on the downbeat.

I highly recommend the software program called Band in a Box. (the cheap version for $129 is all you need). I hit the print button for each solo and I can see what I played. I feel that the rhythm part of things is made easier with the bass and drum set going.

Rosa - Great first solo! I haven't even tried both hands with improv stuff.
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

Top
#1010758 - 02/03/08 01:10 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6991
Loc: So. California
Barb, I did notice that you stiffened up on that last solo, which is to be expected due to the new intellectual challenge. Yes I do know where you missed the chord tones. It's great that you stepped up to the plate on this. Later today I will give you some tips on how to think this through. But it is a very important exercise because eventually you STOP thinking about chord tones and your ear will just select them naturally.

Even Jarrett's complex solo was clearly anchored to chord tones on downbeats. Not all jazz solos are based on this approach but this is the "ear training" I speak of.

Anyway, I'll write up a lesson about this later today.

In the meantime (if you're practicing, do solos using ONLY chord tones), same instruction I gave to Deeluk.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1010759 - 02/03/08 01:11 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
P.S. to ALL:

RE - Band in a Box. My techie husband just told me:

To record into Band in a Box with your digital, you will need a midi cable and a midi interface to your computer.
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

Top
#1010760 - 02/03/08 01:13 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6991
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by rosa2007:

OK...Here is my first attempt of a solo:


http://www.box.net/shared/ik9tp0fk88

Unfortunately I don't have all these fancy rhythm background music you have, so mine is very clean -- straight RH solo \:D .

Rosa \:\) [/b]
Excellent work Rosa! I see you're being imaginative by coming up with some actual melodies/patterns. Good coordination with LH/RH.

I'll give you some tips later on moving to the next level but this is a very good
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1010761 - 02/03/08 06:12 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6991
Loc: So. California
Lesson 11 Solos - Chord Tones on Downbeats[/b]

Chord Tones are very important on solos because these tones outline the chord changes. In a book by Hal Galper, he describes a good bebop solo as one where you can tell what the changes are even when there's no rhythm section. When I say chord tones here, I'm referring to the main chord tones and not the extensions (1, 3, 5, 7 of the chord not including 9, 11, 13 and their alterations).

In order to emphasize the changes, the chord tones are placed on the downbeats (beats 1, 2, 3, 4). Other tones are played on the '&' of each beat. I think the most important one is a chord tone on beat 1.

But here's the rub. Not all jazz is played using using these major chord tones on downbeats and in part it is a stylistic choice often based on the melody of the tune or style of Jazz. Certainly, this style is characteristic of bebop but is less used on tunes with slow solos using very long notes (ala Miles Davis), or tunes based on a melody that's based on extensions (the Tune Invititation comes to mind). So this is a building block and a starting point but is not the end-all.

In order to deviate stylistically, I was taught to first start with the rules. Once you have mastered the rules, then you can feel free to break them. So to make my initial forays into improvisation less random, I was taught to start playing Chord Tones on downbeats.

This is developmentally very important because it trains the ear to create lines that are in synch with the changes. It also makes naturally melodic lines.


Where to Start - Use Only Chord Tones/Arpeggios[/b]

The easiest way to implement chord tones on downbeats is to first solo using ONLY chord tones. Again I mean the 1, 3, 5, 7 of the chords. You arpeggiate the chords as eighth notes. You can create patterns using chord tones.

Bill Evans used a lot of chord arpeggios and chord patterns, even on his version of Autumn Leaves.

Here are some example patterns (all are eighth notes and in a single octave, and the numbers below are the position of the chord tone - 1,3,5,7).

3 1 3 5 7 5 3
5 1 3 5 7 5 3
3 3 1 5 7 7 5
and so on.

The point is that it doesn't always have to sound like an arpeggio and repeated notes are cool.

Stepwise Moves[/b]

Now let's expand this a bit. We will now approach movements by a WHOLE STEP.

Did you realize so far that any ODD numbered move of steps within an octave always keeps you in a chord tone if you start on a chord tone?

Simple case: Go from A, to B back to A. 3 notes but you don't lose your place when synching with chord tones. Or go from A, to B, to C, to B, to A. I went up and down and I'm back to the same chord tone. This only works when moving a step in the scale (no skips).

A more complex example, let's say you're playing Am7, the first chord. Am7 is A C E G (1, 3, 5, 7). Think of starting on any of these notes, but only move within the range of these notes for now A to G.

Now let's start at A and create an 8 note line for the whole measure. This goes from A to E then goes back down.
A[/b] B C[/b] D E[/b] D C[/b] B

I bolded the chord tones. I ended up with B on the upbeat and I'm still in synch. Since the next chord is D7, I will have to start a new chord tone again. D7 is D F# A C (1,3,5,7).

D[/b] E D[/b] E F#[/b] E D[/b] C

The next chord is G7 which is G B D F. So a sample line could be

B[/b] C D[/b] C B[/b] A G[/b] A

The point of this exercise is to show that that you can move stepwise up or down and you will be in synch with downbeats. (However, later you will discover that this doesn't work when you cross an octave, for which there's a solution).


Half Step Moves[/b]

Same concept as above. You can plan out your moves to neighboring tones to always land on a chord tone.

For example:
A[/b] G# A[/b] A# A[/b]
D[/b] C# D[/b] D# D[/b]

In 5 moves, I'm back to a chord tone and in synch with the beat.

Don't these ornaments look familiar? Used a lot in classical music. Did one in Chopin recently.

Or
D[/b] C# E[/b] F F#[/b]

Here E is an extension and not a major chord tone but it doesn't matter when you're moving chromatically and landing on a chord tone. In other words, I don't necessarily implement this to some strict rule rather than more of a guideline. (And neither do the masters).


Bebop Scale[/b]

The above examples showed lines relating only to a single chord at a time. In real playing, the phrases cross chords and in Bebop playing, the lines go up and down. Since playing multiple chords often require crossing octaves, someone discovered that you do not always stay in synch with stepwise moves because a typical scale is not symmetrical.

So someone invented a BEBOP SCALE. In order to with a chord tone on the downbeat, you need a scale with 8 notes (an even number). In Autumn Leaves, the scale is G which has 7 notes (G, A , B , C, D , E, F#). A smart guy decided to an extra note to the scale to create an even eight note scale. The Bebop scale will add the extra note as a b6 (in this case D#). So a Bebop scale version of G Major scale would be (Extra passing note is bolded).

G A B C D D#[/b]E F#

Now if you go up and down using an ODD number of steps, you will land on a chord tone on a downbeat, assuming you start on a chord tone.


Putting it All Together[/b]


So here's a simplified soloing approach to creating eighth note based lines.

1. Use the Bebop Scale. When using the Bebop scale, move stepwise.

2. Use Arpeggios and chord patterns. This gives you skips in 3rds.

3. Then apply some half step (neighbor tone) moves using examples laid out above for ornamentation. This gives you the half step moves.

4. Move in Perfect Fifths or Octaves. Something we discussed in an earlier lesson.

Combine all these for variety.

You'll be surprised how 'bebopy' you'll sound with all of these together.


Don't Start Your line on the Downbeat[/b]


To avoid having boxy sounding lines, target your preferred starting chord tone but start playing your line on a 'pickup' (i.e. an eighth note ahead), by using a non-chord tone or approach tone a half step away on the UPBEAT.

Start your lines on any '&' of a beat using a non-chord tone so that the next note IS a chord tone. This is not a hard and fast rule but if you listen to the masters, they will seldom start lines always on beat 1 as all beginners in Jazz will play.


Caution! Take a Breath![/b]

The problem with teaching this approach is that you could theoretically make continuous lines with no stopping of eighth note solos, like what you expect from Bebop.

But realize that actual Jazz lines are SHORT. You need to take a breath as Chris and I have been emphasizing since the beginning.

Slow down. Repeat notes. Repeat ideas. Give space. More notes doesn't equal to a good solo.

Maybe start your solo with some rests. Resist the urge to put a note in on the very first beat.


Don't Forget to Swing[/b]

Remember that the core of jazz is the swing in Eighth notes so this is the time to put that accent on the '&'s of the beat to bring that syncopation in. No need to exaggerate the swing, just focus on very legato sound with accents.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1010762 - 02/03/08 06:17 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6991
Loc: So. California
Barb, Rosa, Deeluk and Alene,

Using the above lesson as a guide, start first with applying Chord Arpeggios, and chord tone patterns to your solos. Get comfortable with that first. Meaning, I'm not expecting everyone to apply the entire lesson in a single attempt.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1010763 - 02/03/08 07:03 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
jazzwee - I had to laugh when I read your:

Caution! Take a Breath!

By the time I got to that point, I needed a breath. Lots of great stuff you have there. WOW! I'll be busy for a while - but starting on chord tones as you say.

One question comes to mind. At this point, do we play solely eighth notes for our lines? No quarter notes, dotted quarters, half notes. In other words, no syncopation? The way I understand it, we play only eighth notes and accent each &

You are one fantastic mentor!!!!
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

Top
#1010764 - 02/03/08 07:52 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6991
Loc: So. California
Barb, in the early exercise, we started out with long tones. This is to get the confidence that one can create nice simple solos with long tones.

This is now about the heart and soul of jazz which is eighth notes. A typical jazz line is probably 75% eighth notes (sometimes it's even 90% - depends on who's playing).

This is where the swing feel is felt the most. And this is where that fast feel of jazz bebop comes from. Sixteenth notes are seldom used in jazz. Smaller notes are very rare in Straight Ahead.

Jazz is played fast by increasing the tempo. You're still playing 8th notes but at 300bpm they sound like ultra fast 16th notes (if you can even play that fast).

To get you to relax a bit and not get too stressed about eighth notes, feel free to mix it in with quarter notes.

When practicing 8th note lines, you can slow down the tempo of AL. Somewhere around 110-120bpm is good for slow eighth lines where the changes aren't coming at you so fast.

The ability to react quickly to chord changes is something that takes time to develop and you build it tune by tune. Many fast Bebop tunes will change chords every two measures. Or a tune like Donna Lee that's played upwards of 180bpm.

I'm just saying this to make you aware of where all of this is leading. You need not worry about high speed playing for awhile. It's not necessary right now. But you can see why some of these thought processes need to be automated.

No one ever said Jazz was simple right \:D
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1010765 - 02/03/08 08:09 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6991
Loc: So. California
The concept of Chord Tones on downbeats is discussed fully in this PDF book by Hal Galper called "FORWARD MOTION". You can buy it Online for $16.97 apparently (I remember buying this for $25 before \:\( ). It's good reading and you'll hear it frequently recommended on Jazz sites.

http://www.forwardmotionpdf.com/

This same concept is discussed by a lot of Jazz educators like David Baker, Barry Harris, Shelly Berg and is referenced in many other jazz books.

BTW - you might also get a number of jazz musicians who do not believe in this approach. Suffice it to say that this is the codification of the Bebop approach. If one wishes not to sound like Bebop then I supposes one has no reason to follow this.

For me personally, I've learned to apply it and also learned when to take an alternate approach but I think it was important for me to understand this first.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1010766 - 02/03/08 11:56 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Alene Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/05
Posts: 78
Loc: Oregon
Wow, these instructions are just so helpful and makes trying to learn this so much more fun. Jazzwee, we do thank you for all your time and effort you are putting into this. :3hearts:

You do have a knack for explaining and making it clear what to do (even if I have a hard time doing it, LOL)....you make a great ...want to say teacher...but I'll go with MENTOR like Barb did.

Thanks again!
Alene

Top
#1010767 - 02/04/08 12:02 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
deeluk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Fort Collins, CO
Yeah, Jazzwee, we all owe you one huge....something. I had a big response written up to this, but realized, I'm a little drunk. The Super Bowl, you know. What you're doing for us here, I cannot thank you enough. I'm going to dive into your suggestions in earnest tomorrow when I can play again.

Top
#1010768 - 02/04/08 12:36 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6991
Loc: So. California
Sometimes I wonder if I can be understood guys. I'm explaining completely differently from how I learned this.

I'm parcelling it out in slow motion so we don't discuss too many issues that may not be relevant in one's early development (like scales and modes).

So in a way this is an experiment. Please let me know if something is unclear as it is difficult to get this right the first try.

In a discussion on the internet on a old jazz site called JustJazz.com, it was argued there that theories of scales/modes can be explained via the simple explanation of chord tones and neighbors. I don't necessarily agree with this but I have to admit that with this explanation, one can come up with some good jazz lines, so why complicate it for now?

Maybe later, we'll meet up with traditional explanation (in modern times at least). But we'll see how this goes first.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
#1010769 - 02/04/08 12:42 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6991
Loc: So. California
One other thing. I would bet strongly that the idea of chord tones on downbeats would be found in Classical music to a very strong degree. This must be a standard music theory concept (just never articulated before).

Any classical experts there to provide input? It is often said that the only real difference between Jazz and Classical is really the rhythm and articulation (swing/syncopation).
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Piano 88
My Blog

Top
Page 22 of 124 < 1 2 ... 20 21 22 23 24 ... 123 124 >

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Download & Print Sheet Music Instantly
sheet music search
sheet music search

sheet music search
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
69 registered (AZNpiano, Asmodeus, Alux, beet31425, 16 invisible), 1110 Guests and 56 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
74318 Members
42 Forums
153721 Topics
2253484 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
The Eagles - Hotel California (Piano Cover)
by Mr. Pianoman
Today at 03:29 AM
Student growing tall
by pianoplayer84
Today at 02:41 AM
Whole tone scales leading to interesting series of keys
by caters
Today at 12:16 AM
Another beginner
by mojoe
Today at 12:02 AM
GH1 tuning pin torque
by awyaks
Yesterday at 11:38 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission