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#1010860 - 02/08/08 03:17 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7061
Loc: So. California
Look at all the hard work guys. That's why everyone keeps improving so much
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1010861 - 02/08/08 04:18 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
rosa2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 168
Loc: Hong Kong
Thanks Deeluk for doing the midi before you went to sleep.

Before I be too critical on myself, I better hand in something to see what I am doing right and what I am doing wrong.

http://www.box.net/shared/8gy2wrlcsc

Here I mainly added the 8th notes and tried to catch the + of the 4 to start my melodic lines. Not always successful though. As a result in the middle, I lost my rhythm, but I caught back to the metronome beat at the end to try to end the song decently :rolleyes: .


Rosa

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#1010862 - 02/08/08 07:16 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
Hey Rosa - Welcome back to solo land. I enjoyed listening to your latest. Keep up the good work and post often!
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

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#1010863 - 02/08/08 09:50 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
deeluk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Fort Collins, CO
 Quote:
Originally posted by jazzwee:
In the Pianist Non-Classical Forum, jazzer Disciple posts this link about Lennie Tristano.

Listen specifically to the second link because it shows the style of accenting with relying on the triplet feel.
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/37/1259.html [/b]
So, you're telling me I need to spend another $0.99 on this thread? Sheesh. Most expensive thread I've ever participated in. Maybe we should all keep track of our expenses. Then, when we all become touring jazz pros, we can write them off.

 Code:
deeluk's expenses:
  Somethin' Else   $7.97
  East 32nd        $0.99
  Total:           $8.96

jazzwee's expenses:
  Yamaha Motif XS6 - $2199



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#1010864 - 02/08/08 09:51 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
LaValse Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 1224
Loc: Mumbles, Wales
You forgot to add his hourly rate... \:\)
_________________________
http://uk.youtube.com/user/sailwavedev

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#1010865 - 02/08/08 10:07 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
Hi Everyone - One of our family phrases is -- "DESPERATE TIMES CALLS FOR DESPERATE MEASURES".

I've been glued to the piano this morning tackling my "even eighths, accent the upbeat" problem. I took out a bebop tune that I had been working on for a year. I've been doing it all wrong as far as accents go.

The tune is Donna Lee by Charlie Parker. I played the first 14 measures over and over ..... It's supposed to be played faster than the speed of light. I worked up my speed this morning from the snail's pace of 80 bpm to the turtle pace of 110 bmp.

jazzwee - Am I on the right path for those upbeat accents? If I am, I will start practicing my LH charleston with this. I hope it doesn't distress you too much this morning listening to Donna played at such an excruciatingly slow pace. Since it's a midi file, you can speed it up to a nice bebop tempo. ;\)

http://www.box.net/shared/zypv0w54ww

ps - I know I mentioned in a previous post yesterday that I would be doing scales to tackle the problem. Well, Donna Lee is just too much fun to resist.
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

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#1010866 - 02/08/08 11:36 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Kangamangusuk Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 18
Loc: East Yorkshire
Hi everyone,

This is just to keep in touch & let you know, I have not gone to ground.

Many of you are progressing very fast & it's sure good to see & hear. I am still struggling with the creativity of soloing... so used to seeing the notes in front of me previously...., but I am still hear trying to make progress. When I have something new to post, I shall do so.

Kanga

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#1010867 - 02/08/08 11:47 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7061
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by rosa2007:
Thanks Deeluk for doing the midi before you went to sleep.

Before I be too critical on myself, I better hand in something to see what I am doing right and what I am doing wrong.

http://www.box.net/shared/8gy2wrlcsc

Here I mainly added the 8th notes and tried to catch the + of the 4 to start my melodic lines. Not always successful though. As a result in the middle, I lost my rhythm, but I caught back to the metronome beat at the end to try to end the song decently :rolleyes: .


Rosa [/b]
This is good to post this Rosa. This shows how you're practicing. I see you're finding the chord tones most of the time. All you need here is confidence.

In practice these continuous lines are good. In actual playing it should be easier because the phrases are short (it has space) so you have to just have an eye on each chord tone. It sounds like you're getting there though.

Now try to cut down on the triplet feel sing-songy swing. That's what I want to make sure every is practicing. It doesn't really require a lot of notes to sound jazzy but a few notes with the right kind of articulation and it's already convincing.

Keep it up Rosa!

There was dude on the internet that posted hours and hours of jazz practice, with mistakes and all. It was actually quite helpful to listen to especially since it was MIDI just like this.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1010868 - 02/08/08 11:54 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7061
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by Swingin' Barb:
Hi Everyone - One of our family phrases is -- "DESPERATE TIMES CALLS FOR DESPERATE MEASURES".

I've been glued to the piano this morning tackling my "even eighths, accent the upbeat" problem. I took out a bebop tune that I had been working on for a year. I've been doing it all wrong as far as accents go.

The tune is Donna Lee by Charlie Parker. I played the first 14 measures over and over ..... It's supposed to be played faster than the speed of light. I worked up my speed this morning from the snail's pace of 80 bpm to the turtle pace of 110 bmp.

jazzwee - Am I on the right path for those upbeat accents? If I am, I will start practicing my LH charleston with this. I hope it doesn't distress you too much this morning listening to Donna played at such an excruciatingly slow pace. Since it's a midi file, you can speed it up to a nice bebop tempo. ;\)

http://www.box.net/shared/zypv0w54ww

ps - I know I mentioned in a previous post yesterday that I would be doing scales to tackle the problem. Well, Donna Lee is just too much fun to resist. [/b]
That's perfect! That's not triplet anymore. Now when I play Donna Lee usually it's close to 200bpm, actually I'm comfortable at 180bpm (hard to solo at 200bpm), it has to be played completely straight, just like sixteenth notes.

Do we need to start a Donna Lee study group? \:D That would just blow everyone away (including me).

As long as we don't have to play it this fast...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=62ohKUU03pc

BTW this is pure Bebop which means chord tones on downbeats and this guy is doing it at what 300bpm? So at this speed it's all bebop scales.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1010869 - 02/08/08 11:59 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7061
Loc: So. California
deeluk, this time I'll save you 99 cents. You don't have to buy the Tristano thing, just listen to the swing in that sample. Tristano is the master of accents.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1010870 - 02/08/08 12:02 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7061
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by Kangamangusuk:
Hi everyone,

This is just to keep in touch & let you know, I have not gone to ground.

Many of you are progressing very fast & it's sure good to see & hear. I am still struggling with the creativity of soloing... so used to seeing the notes in front of me previously...., but I am still hear trying to make progress. When I have something new to post, I shall do so.

Kanga [/b]
Kanga, like in the early example, start off with long tones first. That makes it easy to think about. No need to rush into long lines (although you can fit some memorized lines in there too).
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1010871 - 02/08/08 12:04 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
Jazzwee - Thank you. I'll tackle all of Miss Donna in that fashion and add the Charleston to it.

That youtube guy was amazing. Yes, Yes, I want to do that \:D (be still my heart).
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

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#1010872 - 02/08/08 12:22 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7061
Loc: So. California
How far are you with Donna Lee, Barb? Can you do chords on the LH while playing the melody in the RH?

BTW some of the fingering in Donna Lee is really difficult. It wasn't really intended to be played on a piano. I use Donna Lee as the technique builder tune. I suffer from a little pain between RH fingers 1 and 3 from overstretching and I think it's from Donna Lee...
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1010873 - 02/08/08 12:31 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
Jazzwee - I've been playing root, b7 in the LH. But, I didn't know about the Charleston beat so I just played on 1 and an occasional jab on another beat - nothing scientific.

I worked out the fingering last year, so that's not a problem for me. It may not be the best fingering, but it works for now. Hopefully, it will work as I get faster.
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

Top
#1010874 - 02/08/08 12:37 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
deeluk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Fort Collins, CO
 Quote:
Originally posted by jazzwee:
deeluk, this time I'll save you 99 cents. You don't have to buy the Tristano thing, just listen to the swing in that sample. Tristano is the master of accents. [/b]
Ooops, didn't even realize you could preview it. My bad. Thx.

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#1010875 - 02/08/08 12:40 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7061
Loc: So. California
On Barb's request, here's an example of me playing straight eight swing bebop style.

http://www.myspace.com/jazzwee

This is something I recorded in 2006 I think. I don't think I have a copy of this anymore. This was when I had played piano/jazz for close to 2 years.

Anyway it's played pretty straight with just offbeat accents(accenting '&s'). This was specifically an exercise I did to learn to play in this manner.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1010876 - 02/08/08 01:24 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
GANG - Listen closely, over and over, to jazzwee's myspace link. His example helped me out BIG TIME with Donna Lee.

Thank you, jazzwee
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

Top
#1010877 - 02/08/08 07:45 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Alene Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/05
Posts: 78
Loc: Oregon
\:\) Gosh, you girls are doing great. Barb, your accents were clear and I could hear them....wish I could do them, LOL!

Rosa.....good work and keeping that left hand going at the same time. I'm impressed!

These accents are really hard for me to do...spent too many years accenting 1 and 3, I think.

Jazzwee's playing is so great and only after 3 years??? Where did I go wrong...I sure can't do that after many years.

Oh, oh, back to the practicing for me!

Alene

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#1010878 - 02/08/08 08:56 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
Alene - For those accents - here's a tip. Set your metronome to beat on eighth notes. In 4/4 time, you will have 8 clicks to the measure - 1&2&3&4&. Accent each "and" right on the click. That's how I did it. I started very slowly - I almost fell asleep between clicks

Then, of course, you play the game of increasing the metronome speed little by little - so your fingers don't even notice it.

This exercise works great with the Lesson 8 scale.
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

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#1010879 - 02/08/08 09:15 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Babs_ Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 321
Loc: Gulf Coast
 Quote:
Originally posted by jazzwee:
On Barb's request, here's an example of me playing straight eight swing bebop style.

http://www.myspace.com/jazzwee

This is something I recorded in 2006 I think. I don't think I have a copy of this anymore. This was when I had played piano/jazz for close to 2 years.

Anyway it's played pretty straight with just offbeat accents(accenting '&s'). This was specifically an exercise I did to learn to play in this manner. [/b]
I pop in from time to time to listen you guys and you all just blow me away! Your thread about the stars and all was really a trip! \:D Jazzee I listened to your my space page and I was really impressed! Loved it! \:\)

I love jazz, I would really like to learn some jazz piano. I just recently received the book "Exploring Jazz Piano" by Tim Richards. It's Volume 1. Has anybody here ever used this book? I've also have his Blues book and it is truly outstanding.

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#1010880 - 02/08/08 10:37 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
deeluk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Fort Collins, CO
 Quote:
Originally posted by Babs1:
I pop in from time to time to listen you guys and you all just blow me away! Your thread about the stars and all was really a trip! \:D Jazzee I listened to your my space page and I was really impressed! Loved it! \:\)

I love jazz, I would really like to learn some jazz piano. I just recently received the book "Exploring Jazz Piano" by Tim Richards. It's Volume 1. Has anybody here ever used this book? I've also have his Blues book and it is truly outstanding. [/b]
I have both of those books as well. I've been trying to work through IBP for the past year or so. I've gotten through most of chs 1 and 2 and some of 3 and 4. I decided that EJP was a bit over my head and tried to focus on IBP first. I've done some of the material in ch 1. And, of course, now I've looked at the material there on Autumn Leaves.

I feel like I've made more progress here in a month than I did on my own with the books in about a year. It is really helpful getting the feedback and working through everything with others. And here we have jazzwee to keep us all on the right track. It's easy to convince yourself that you've got it down when you're on your own. They are really great books though. I plan on working through them for quite some time to come. There are several other folks on the board working through IBP as well. I see you've discovered the IBP thread already.

You should join us!

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#1010881 - 02/08/08 10:59 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7061
Loc: So. California
Babs, thanks for stopping by! I don't have that book unfortunately so don't know anything about it. I probably have a majority of the jazz books but probably more of the advanced ones.

We could probably even branch out to a Jazz Blues study group. Simpler chords but the points are the same.

I was going to rate you a 5 but you disabled your rating \:D
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1010882 - 02/08/08 11:57 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Alene Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/05
Posts: 78
Loc: Oregon
\:\) Thanks Barb for the tips. That was what I was doing today after listening to your recording...had the metronome to count out loud the "ands" and REALLY REALLY SLOW was accenting the "ands" and yes, I was slow enough to be sleeping too and finally gave it up.....but if that's how you did it and made it work too, then I will keep it up. You guys may not hear anything from me for a while and then you'll know I really fell asleep or else I still can't do it...either way I'll be missing.LOL!

What is nice with Jazzwee's teaching is he gives us several things we can vary our practice on....either the Charleston Rhythm, the scales for accenting, and other things. Sign of a good teacher, I think!

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#1010883 - 02/09/08 01:04 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
deeluk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Fort Collins, CO
More solo practice for me tonight:

http://www.box.net/shared/kn9rv78cgk

Still working on accents, rhythm and variation.

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#1010884 - 02/09/08 01:24 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
rosa2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 168
Loc: Hong Kong
Hey Gang, I sure like coming into here everyday. There is always something new here and something exciting to learn. Just think if we keep this up everyday and do a bit of noodling at the piano, we should grow rapidly. We don't have to wait for a week for those live teachers piano lessons though I don't mind if there is a good one here that I can go to. I hope Jazzwee doesn't get tired of listening to our practise sessions but sure is good to get feedback to know what we are doing right or wrong and what needs to focus. Thanks a bundle to JW and all.

Rosa \:\)

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#1010885 - 02/09/08 02:04 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
rosa2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 168
Loc: Hong Kong
Deeluk, great solo again. Wow, I hear confidence built in.

Rosa \:\)

(I don't dare to ask for the midi for 'you must sleep').

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#1010886 - 02/09/08 03:05 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7061
Loc: So. California
deeluk, nice note choices! Try to put more eighth note chunks in there as your project. It really sounds good when I hear a series of eighths. I can see the great progress there. It's really coming together.

It may be time for another lesson and that's to expand your note choices using Chord/Scales. It might help when noodling as there are more notes available than what's in the G major scale or G major bebop scale.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1010887 - 02/09/08 03:13 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7061
Loc: So. California
Chromatic Ideas for Lines[/b]

In the meantime, what I'd like hear everyone try is to put some occasional chromatic notes.

For example, if you're at F#m7b5, you could play a series of eighth notes chromatically as
(Going up)
F# G G# A
F# G G# A A# B C
G# A A# B C
etc.
(Going down)
A G# G F# E
C B A G# A


My point here is that a chromatic sequence of eighth notes will keep you also in a chord tone.

Here's another example. On the Em.
D# E F# G F# E
This little lick has a couple of chromatics in it.

Another one. If you know what chord tone you want to start at on Beat 1, then on the & prior, start with a chromatic approach note.

Let's say that on Am7 you want to play C as the first note on Beat 1, then you could approach it from C# on the &, so you play it as C# C in sequence. Starting on the & before it is called a pickup note.

Doing some chromatics gives you more choices for an eighth note sequence and is characteristic of Bebop.
_________________________
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP
My Blog

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#1010888 - 02/09/08 03:37 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
rosa2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 168
Loc: Hong Kong
Jazzwee, need a bit of clarification here.

Say for F#m7b5, if I play a series of eighth notes chromatically:

F# G G# A
F# G G# A A# B C
G# A A# B C

I presume that F# begins with the 1st beat, so if I want to start the melody line on the '+' of the 4, do I start with: F F# G G# A.

And for the Em lick that you noted:

D# E F# G F# E

Do I start that D# on the 1st beat or + of the 4?
IT seems to sound good on the 1st beat but then it is not a chord tone on the beat then?

Rosa

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#1010889 - 02/09/08 08:14 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Babs_ Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 321
Loc: Gulf Coast
 Quote:
Originally posted by jazzwee:
Babs, thanks for stopping by! I don't have that book unfortunately so don't know anything about it. I probably have a majority of the jazz books but probably more of the advanced ones.

We could probably even branch out to a Jazz Blues study group. Simpler chords but the points are the same.

I was going to rate you a 5 but you disabled your rating \:D [/b]
Ahhhh..........jazz blues study group? I like that combination.

Deeluk, thanks for the offer, but I am not sure I could keep up with you all. Although, I am just getting around to learning various chords and it's not too hard since I have a few other books to go by. ;\)

Gee thanks Jazzwee.....but I disabled my rating.....I was afraid once it was discovered that I like classical, new age, blues and jazz that I would be considered "weird" and be given a 1. \:D

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