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Jazzwee - thank you for the feedback. I agree - building up speed is my next hurdle.

Lesson 13 - WOW! That will keep us all busy and out of trouble for a while.

for all your help.

Well....cheers to our WEIRDO GANG!!! LOL!!!

Didn't know playing jazz will turn me into a weirdo....so weirdos we are. (Is there such a word???)

Look what jazz is turning me into 10+ from us so forget about the stars.

Deeluk and Barb...both of you are growing by leaps and bounds. Can't keep up with you guys. Thanks Deeluk for the midi. Hint Hint: next time, post your midis along so I can LEARN FROM YOU. I don't want to cut into your 'must sleeping' time. When You sleep I get up, when you get up, I go to sleep. We work on different hours.

And Barb, just curious -- how many hours do you practise a day?

Rosa

Lesson 14 - Solo - What to Play on a Minor ii-V-i

AL is based on a Major ii-V-I and a Minor ii-V-i. A minor ii-V-i follows a fairly straightforward scale based on the assumption that the chord progression is:

IIm7b5 V7b9 Im7

This could also appear or be played as

IIm7b5 V7Alt Im6

So in AL the Minor ii-V-i is:

F#m7b5 B7b9 Em7
or
F#m7b5 B7Alt Em6

However you voice the chord has an impact on the scale to be used. Here are the appropriate scales and the bolded notes are the deviations from the regular Major Scale they belong to (G Major Scale in AL).

Half Diminished Chords (minor 7 b5)

So in the case of AL this is F#m7b5 and the scale used is the Diminished Whole Tone.

F# Half Diminished Scale(AKA Locrian #2 Scale)

F# G# A B C D E
1 9 #9 11 #11 b13 b7

This is pretty straightforward but note that the G is not played in the scale. That is an avoid note. In AL so far we have been playing G on the F#m7b5. Now we will ween you away from that G in favor of G#.

Dominant 7b9 or 7Alt Chords

In AL this is the B7b9 or B7Alt.

For B7b9, one will play the half-whole diminished.

B C D D# F F# G# A
1 b9 +9 3 +11 5 13 b7

Or the ALT Scale for B7Alt

B C D D# F G A
1 b9 +9 3 +11 b13 b7

Minor 6 Chords

The tonic of a minor ii-V-i, which is Em7 in AL can also be played as Em6. The scale for Em7 is the same as the G Major scale since Em is the relative minor. So it is the same scale starting at E.

E F# G A B C D

But instead of a b6 found above, an Em6 would have the 6 which is C#. So here's a variation on Em6.

E F# G A B C# D

Summary to Lesson 12,13,14

Examine all the bolded notes in the last three lessons and remember to apply them in AL.

It is not required that one apply high tension/altered scales to all Dominant 7 chords. For AL, you could stick with the standard G Major Scale for the D7. However, notice I did not provide any alternatives to playing a minor ii-V-I.

Although it is possible to play a minor ii-V-I with just a normal G Major scale as we have been doing, at the very least, you will have to avoid the following notes:

F#m7b5 - Do not play the G
B7b9 - Do not Play the E and add the D# (which we said is the third and was important since Day 1).

What this series of lessons do is expose you to the possibility of more note choices than ever before. You can experiment with some new sounds, some of them quite cool and unexpected. This is the kind of stuff that people heard from John Coltrane and players that followed.

The older bebop players usually played diatonically and did not alter the scales. However, they did substitute chords instead (such as using the Tritone substitute), which in effect creates an ALT sound.

Bill Evans did not specifically follow these scales either but arrived at some similar sounds by using chromatic neighbor tones/grace notes. However, just yesterday, I transcribed a portion of the Bill Evans solo in his version of AL and I was surprised to find him using the G# and A# over a ii-V-I. This would only be found in the Whole Tone Scale I believe. Or the other explanation is that they are on the offbeat so he could justify any passing tone.

Whatever the explanation, being aware of these notes is exciting.

Later on in everyone's development, I would recommend learning how to construct these scales for any chord. This can come later and we need not delve into it further than this.

Notice my minimal usage of the term MODES and the more complex explanations that usually accompany these scales. That is not critical right now. Over time one could reconstruct these scales just by remembering the INTERVALS of the altered notes in relation to the root of the chord.

This is cool stuff. When I first learned this, I had to sit on the piano and begin experimenting. I expect you guys would have that same urge.

Rosa - For the past 2 years, learning piano has been my full time job - which means I'm at it most of the day. I practice my Sudnow rep of 40 songs for half the time, the other half spent on learning jazz and learning to comp.

I was glad to see the Half/Whole Dim scale in lesson 13. I practiced those diminished scales for many months last year in preparation for going to the Aebersold Jazz camp.

I can honestly say I have learned more in these few weeks with Jazzwee than all my months trying to learn this stuff last year. I never did quite understand how to do that jazz phrasing of straight eighths while accenting the off beats until Jazzee hit me over the head with it.

TO ALL - These scales take lots of slow practice ...time worth spent!

Jazzwee - You have given me a gift with that Half Whole Dim scale. Since I already knew the scale, I was able to incorporate it right away. When I used this scale in this solo, I didn't have to think about notes for a full measure. I concentrated on phrasing - so my brain thanks you.

Since I used the Half Whole Dim scale a lot in this solo (perhaps overused it?) I was able to increase the speed up to 130 bmp. Previously, I had been sticking to 110 due to brain overload

As always, feedback much appreciated

http://www.box.net/shared/ixxhmgvswg

Well, this morning I just stopped by and 'barked' a bit but didn't get to study the lessons yet.

Then I come back in a few hours, and saw these lessons 12, 13 and 14 waiting for me. WOW, Jazzwee, you are such a great teacher and made all those 'hard to understand' jazz theories easy for me to absorb here. And you even provided a 'summary' for us -- where do we find such good teachers.

We are here a lucky bunch!!!

I am not overwhelmed but EAGER to get on to put them into my fingers.

Rosa

Barb, you are fast...listening to your recording again... you learn at super speed but you are a FULL TIME student here. Give me some of your time, will ya? I need 48 hours a day.

That's excellent work Barb!

It won't be long when you'll have to help me teach others here. I will run out of specific things to teach you. You have come a long way here.

It was even hard to find problems with your solo so I will give you items to think about but just realize this required a fine tooth comb to pick out.

1. You tended to start your lines at 1+. Vary that some by waiting for the chord to go by and starting the line at 3+ or 4+.

2. Incorporate the new correct scale for F#m7b5
F# G# A B C D E.

3. Increase the contrast between the downbeat and upbeat by maybe softening the downbeat some more. I just want to see if you can do it. Later on you'll pick an accenting style that suits you but we have to make sure you have the technical facility to execute all variations.

4. Find non-linear/non-scalar way to play a Half-Whole Diminished (maybe by repeating some notes or skipping a step on occasion).

5. Practice swing on scales so get into the groove more. This means more accuracy on time and the ability to play on top of the beat or slightly behind.

6. Phrasing -- this is more of a vocabulary issue. As you listen to jazz everyday, pick out the rhythmic construction of the phrases. And the general shape as the lines go up and down. Then start incorporating this phrasing into your solo. I believe Aebersold has several phrasing examples on his website too. There are cliche ways of phrasing which makes jazz sound like jazz. Cliche being an actual good thing. Learning all these cliches is called learning the vocabulary. There are certain cliches that are so popular that they are identifiable, like the 'Duke Ellington Ending'

Barb, as you pick up speed doing this, you'll need a real pro teacher. This is pretty incredible work.

I can see you getting pretty natural with this in a short time. It will be time to solo on Donna Lee

What other tunes are you working on (Jazz wise)? May I suggest that you master All the Things that You Are, and Stella by Starlight. These are much more advanced than AL but incorporates AL elements. You'll need to work on these types of tunes because they modulate frequently.

As you're proving to everyone here, practice (enough of it) can yield exceptional results I'M SO PROUD OF YOU!!!

Thank you, Jazzwee, for all those kind words and for your suggestions on how I need to progress. You are the leader here and have helped me so very much. A thousand thanks and a thousand go to you!

The jazzy songs in my repertoire that I have voiced as a Sudnow student are:

Blue in Green, You Must Believe in Spring, Take the "A" Train, I Remember Clifford, The Duke, Doxy.

If you think I should work with any of those as potential solo tunes, I'll do so. If not, I'll just dive into All the Things You Are and Stella by Starlight.

Barb, those tunes you mention don't have the challenges of All the things and Stella. These two are hard to solo through because they are constantly modulating. Some keys don't last more than a measure. That's what you need to develop next.

Barb, and others, one thing I wanted to add as something to work on:

Once new scales are introduced (like Half-Whole Dim, Alt, etc.) there will be a tendency to start making lines all stepwise as we get enamored by the new sounds.

I would make a specific effort to arpeggiate the chord tones (or even just triads over the new scales) to change the sound a little bit. I know my teacher did this to me to introduce some variety.

And by arpeggiate I don't mean just in one direction...

Hi Fellow Jazzmates,

Our mentor has given us a lot over the past 2 days. Anyone starting on those scales?

It may be helpful to exchange practice tips. It's a bit mind boggling facing the entire AL using different scale tones. So, what I've done is just practice the scales over the 2-5-1 for a small section of AL.

I have 2 separate exercises. One that deals with the major 2-5-1 of am7, D7, G, C (since it's part of the AL progression, I added the C). And then I have the minor 2-5-1 of f#m7b5, B7b9, em7.

I'm taking it VERY SLOWLY at first. If you have a back up group, it's actually fun.

Thanks for the comments Barb.

There's another approach that I'll discuss later. It doesn't invalidate working on AL with the same simple G Major scale for the ii-V-I portion, and that is to keep using the G Major scale but substitute chords. This gives a totally far out sound that jazz is famous for.

However, the part that I don't want anyone to skip is what scale to play on F#m7b5

At the very least, start with this change.

F# G# A B C D E

To do otherwise is actually incorrect (i.e. don't play G).

Hey Barb and gang,

I have been working on the last few lessons in earnest. I am struggling a bit with the new sound. I keep thinking I'm playing the wrong notes. Guess that diatonic scale is deeply ingrained in me. I've been trying to just avoid the avoid notes that were pointed out and hit the right notes for the chords. So, for Fm7b5 thats G# instead of G. And for B7b9 its D# instead of E. Actually for B7b9, it's just a matter of avoiding E, right? E is actually in the scale, but it's just an avoid.

I don't have any real routine I've been using. Mostly noodling. I do try to play all eighth note lines over the whole progression seeing if I can change to the right scale at the right point. That sure has been fun. When I get lost, say on the Gmaj or Cmaj, I usually can't find my way until the F#m7b5 hits. I have managed to generate some cool sounds with the new scales. It's gonna take me a while to get comfortable with them. I'm hoping to post something soon.

Deeluk - Sounds like you're having fun. that's what it's all about.

Struggling with the new sound, huh? That's the jazzy sound. Your ears will get used to it the more you play it.

For that B7b9, E is an avoid note because it is not in the jazzy scale your right hand plays over the harmony. For the B7b9, if you're using the Half/Whole diminished scale, the steps from B are:
half-whole-half-whole-half-whole until you reach B again. E is not in that scale.

Ah-ha! I was thinking about this wrong. I was looking at the B7b9 as coming from the Bmaj scale with a b7 and b9. Not the half-whole diminished scale. Oops. I need to study the lessons and internalize the rules some more...

Great analysis Barb!

Deeluk, this is some real jazz now, man. Diatonic is NOT the ticket

And we're not even dealing with playing 'outside'.

Roger. Training real jazz ears now...

Actually, when I listen to jazz, it sounds great. It's just when I'm playing myself that I start thinking I'm hearing wrong notes. I'm just not used to hearing myself play jazz I suppose.

Deeluk - You need to record your playing in midi - make sure the phrasing is right on, then set the speed to 180. There you are, playing real bebop jazz

Technicalities/Corrections

Gang, I edited the 'label' for the scale for the m7b5 (half diminished). Originally, I referred to it as the ALT scale. But after more thinking, I think this is confusing because it is actually a mode of the ALT scale. So I changed it now to say 'Half Diminished Scale' (also known as the Locrian #2).

A half diminished scale is created by using a Whole-Half Diminished scale to the 11 and then Whole step intervals after that.

I used the term ALT scale really more in relation to the V7b9 chord (or any dominant chord) as a scale having the following alterations: b9, +9, +11, b13. This is the maximum number of alterations possible on a dominant chord (this is over the regular 1, 3, 5, b7 of a V chord).