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#1011040 - 02/27/08 12:44 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Cool Ritincop! Thanks for the Riverman changes.

Doug McKenzie is so chock full of ideas. It's amazing how many variations he can come up with in one solo.

Guys, watch Doug's swing style too. He's a hard swinger and pretty consistent with his style in all his videos. Maybe he made a MIDI of Autumn Leaves on his website and then we can transpose the MIDI to our key.
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#1011041 - 02/29/08 08:01 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
Hi Fellow Jazzers, To celebrate leap year, here's a little treat to get you into the improvisation mood \:D :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsBC5C5ERho
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"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

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#1011042 - 03/01/08 09:11 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
I’ve titled this midi “A Moment of Insanity”. It’s just the “A” section with my left hand playing rootless voicing. I’ve been listening to a lot of Brad Mehldau and wanted to see what it feels like to play a lot faster than what I’ve been doing lately. Decided to just let myself go on this one and set the speed to 150 bpm. Sorry about my heavy left hand. I tell myself to go lighter, but I guess I’m just so thankful to hit the chords that I get a bit carried away and just bang it out. \:D

http://www.box.net/shared/p86xhv0sgo
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A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

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#1011043 - 03/02/08 01:56 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
That's really good you did that Barb! I hardly hear anyone practicing the LH especially LH comping with rootless. Whole notes is the best way to start just like you did.

I'm trying to get you to drag the RH though. When the LH is playing something, it is actually easier to drag the RH as there's something to play against. Keep doing this and keep dragging the LH. Evenly dragged at first. If there's anything to pick from Mehldau it's that drag. His quarter notes are dragged back very far (maybe an eighth behind). Not so much on the eighth notes which he may play straight but be off a sixteenth (emulating a triplet feel with straight eighths). I tell you, these concepts can be hard to hear. I've been paying attention a long time and it's finally sinking in what he's doing.
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#1011044 - 03/02/08 02:09 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
While it's been quiet here, I've been trying to transcribe a little of Jarrett on AL. It is hard to transcribe his rhythm. My teacher says, if it takes me two weeks to transcribe one line it doesn't matter. Well I listen to what I transcribed over and over and each time I listen, I find a variation in how he plays it that threw me off. This is a real helpful exercise.

Transcribing is a real great way to pick up some phrasing and some ideas on jazz vocabulary. So far, Jarrett's actual note selections are consistent with what we've discussed here. No suprise there. But talking about it theoretically does not make it sound like the real deal.

So for those willing to do this, let me tell you how I'm set up to do this. Just this weekend, I bought a software called Roxio RecordNow 9. What it does is allow you to capture any music being played from your computer, whatever the source (for example Youtube). I use this to create an MP3 file.

Then I own this software called "Transcribe!", which allows you to select any portion of the audio and loop it over and over, slow it down, and even autodetect what tones are in there.

From here, I used Finale Notepad (Free from Finale), to transcribe it to sheet music.

With this setup, it is pretty simple and standalone. Before this, I was recording the audio through my Zoom H4, and converting to MP3, and then passing it through Transcribe. So many steps because transcribe only handles Wav and MP3 (no Itune files).

I haven't done a lot of transcribing before but even just doing a little bit, it is already improving my understanding of what's going on, especially on fast runs.

I recommend doing this. Bill Evans was much easier to transcribe because he's using mostly diatonic chord tones and broken chords. It's hard to duplicate in real playing though because of the speed, however it gives great note ideas. Most of it outlines the actual chord shapes (not disimilar to Charlie Parker).

Jarrett is much more chromatic and he mixes it up more rhythmically so it's more challenging, particulary since his version of AL is very fast.

For an introduction to Transcribing, the best first piece to transcribe is Freddie the Freeloader (Kind of Blue - Miles Davis), particularly the Wynton Kelly solo. It's been transcribed by many on the net but you learn more if you transcribe it yourself. Much bigger learning payback.

There's a limited time to spend on the piano so transcribing, which is a big part of jazz learning, could add to that limited time. You can do it in between reading forum posts \:D
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#1011045 - 03/02/08 02:21 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
rintincop Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 1492
.
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#1011046 - 03/05/08 10:41 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Woody-Woodruff Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 615
Loc: Coastal Mississippi
Bump
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#1011047 - 03/05/08 12:32 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
So were are you at Woody? Got any problems with what you're working on?
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#1011048 - 03/05/08 12:55 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Woody-Woodruff Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 615
Loc: Coastal Mississippi
Hi Jazzwee,
I'm up to Lesson 8 (Scales). No problems yet - but I am progressing slowly. Been playing a lot of other music in addition to the Jazz Lessons(both pop and started working on some classical again).

Since I play an old spinet acoustic I don't have any recording ability at this time. The only people enjoying my playing is me and those around me.

I saw that the thread was getting down pretty low on the first page and decided to bump it back up to where it should be.

How have things been with you? The teachers still ragging on you for the jazz thread?
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#1011049 - 03/05/08 02:19 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
No. Nobody ragging. But looks like everyone has such big projects that it's a bigger hurdle to post the next level of improvement.

I still have some lessons that I have to add still so we're not yet done but it's good to have a little rest to build up some energy. Also I'm still trying to digest the approach to explain it (solo piano voicings beyond 2 + 2 and 2 + 3).
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#1011050 - 03/05/08 02:31 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
 Quote:
Originally posted by jazzwee:
But looks like everyone has such big projects that it's a bigger hurdle to post the next level of improvement.[/b]
You've got that right, boss. The key word here is "improvement". \:D
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A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

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#1011051 - 03/05/08 03:09 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
deeluk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Fort Collins, CO
I'm just having problems getting piano time lately. Haven't made too much progress on my projects. Practicing going through the melody once laying back behind the beat a bit, and then running through a line of improv. My accents still have a long way to go yet. I don't feel like I really have the control to shorten or lengthen the upbeat note as suggested. Been listening to a lot of Mehldau lately. Really enjoy his swing style.

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#1011052 - 03/05/08 04:39 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Hey Barb and Deeluk, on your note choices, how about practicing a whole solo of nothing but chord arpeggios? I remember doing that too in the development process.

We can't get coralled to stepwise motion only, we've got to practice mixing it in so think about that. As Bill Evans proves, chord arpeggios sound pretty good. Typically, Bill arpeggiates from the 3rd of the chord to the ninth and then back down.
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#1011053 - 03/05/08 05:40 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
 Quote:
Originally posted by jazzwee:
how about practicing a whole solo of nothing but chord arpeggios?
A breath of fresh air -- Thank you \:\)
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

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#1011054 - 03/06/08 06:31 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Woody-Woodruff Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 615
Loc: Coastal Mississippi
Jazzwee,

I try the chord arpeggios also. I've been using the chords for Colour My World by Chicago for chord practice and for keeping my old spinets tuning honest. I can do the same with the chord arpeggios your recommending and it makes a good change for me. I hate scales - Always have. I use bach for my single fingering exercises and always trying something new for the chord exercises. It's always worked for me.

Swingin' Barb, your playing has come a long way since you shared your first recording. You can always tell when someone has been working really hard. I can't wait to hear what another 6 months on this tread wiil do with our playing!!! Keep up the good work!
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#1011055 - 03/06/08 07:24 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
chrisbell Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 1310
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
A really interesting fact is that with arpeggios you can see that major is minor and minor is major.

Starting an arpeggio on a m7 chord from it's 3rd becomes a M7 chord.
Am7 = c e g b = CM7 = which contains a minor triad = e g b.

and the opposite:
CM7 = e g b d = Em7 = which contains an major triad = g b d

btw for those of you interested: a daughter; Beatrice Inga Evelyn Bell. She's beautiful.
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#1011056 - 03/06/08 07:39 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
Hey Chris - Congrats to you and your wife. Maybe you can post a picture of little Beatrice.

Thanks for the major/minor. I never thought of it that way.
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

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#1011057 - 03/06/08 07:44 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
Woody - Thank you for your kind words. Also, thank you for bumping up this thread. Jazzwee does deserve top billing on this forum.

Don't be a stranger here. Even if you can't record right now, we'd love for you to share how you are progressing with the lessons.

Please join the 21st century soon and get yourself a recording setup. You don't need a digital piano to record and post.
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

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#1011058 - 03/06/08 08:40 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Woody-Woodruff Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 615
Loc: Coastal Mississippi
Swingin' Barb - I would love to join the 21st centrury with recording equipment but my priorities right now is to get my piano stable enough for playing.

It is an inherited, 45 year old spinet that until I received it last June had never seen a tuner, regulator or voicer in all that time. Knowing I live 75 miles from the nearest PT and what would be needed to coax her back, I ordered my own tuning and regulation tools and have been working on it since. Each time I bring her up another half note - she rebels. Last weekend I brought her up the 5th time to A=440 and she is having temper tantrums. Yes, she was 2 1/2 tones low when I got her - and not everywhere (only here and there - some notes were only 1 1/2 tones low) It's been my biggest challange.

My significant other is completely tone deaf so there is no pressing issue to get another more siutable piano at this time. This was my signifant other's piano when they were growing up so they have the sentimental issues to deal with also.

For now, I'll keep plugging along. I have been into the tread of and on but not posting. I can change that part and start adding my $.02 and keep everyone up to date with my progress. The opportunity Jazzwee has provided here is FANTASTIC! For me, it's and entirely different way of learning. If this thread gets too low again, I'll make sure to more than just bump it up. I add my $.02 also.
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#1011059 - 03/06/08 10:21 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
Jazzwee - I hope you enjoyed the quiet time. Guess I'm putting you back to work again. There was something about going back to chord tones that took the fear out of posting another sample. So, I thought I would add something different and play Head, Solo, Head as you had suggested to Deeluk last week.

By playing the head, I felt more in control for right hand dragging with LH rootless. I'm having a hard time playing rootless and dragging while soloing, though. Particularly soloing with Dim scales. Let me know if you sensed a lazier right hand while doing this arpeggiated solo. Also, I hope I'm not back to sing/song. You be the judge on that.

Thank you for listening. \:\)

http://www.box.net/shared/3audf8w840
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

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#1011060 - 03/06/08 10:25 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
Woody - PIANO TUNING???? I'm impressed. Sounds like your area can use a PT. Get good at this, and you have a new career \:D

Deeluk - Your turn to post!

Rosa - Come back.....

Lurkers - Come forward!!!!!
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

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#1011061 - 03/06/08 10:37 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
 Quote:
Originally posted by Swingin' Barb:
Jazzwee - I hope you enjoyed the quiet time. Guess I'm putting you back to work again. There was something about going back to chord tones that took the fear out of posting another sample. So, I thought I would add something different and play Head, Solo, Head as you had suggested to Deeluk last week.

By playing the head, I felt more in control for right hand dragging with LH rootless. I'm having a hard time playing rootless and dragging while soloing, though. Particularly soloing with Dim scales. Let me know if you sensed a lazier right hand while doing this arpeggiated solo. Also, I hope I'm not back to sing/song. You be the judge on that.

Thank you for listening. \:\)

http://www.box.net/shared/3audf8w840 [/b]
That was a full AL recital there Barb! The whole tune with solo and LH chords. That's a first!

Congratulations. I agree that there's marked improvement. Let me listen to it some more later to see how we can push you to another notch.
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#1011062 - 03/06/08 10:40 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Chris, no wonder you've been quiet lately! Congratulations. At first your message was a bit cryptic but the women were quick to pick up on it. Now while having your sleepless nights, you can login to the forum \:D
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#1011063 - 03/06/08 10:44 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
 Quote:
Originally posted by jazzwee:
Let me listen to it some more later to see how we can push you to another notch.
Ouch - I'm not quite settled into this notch yet

Hey, by playing the head/solo style, I did feel like I was playing in a smokey bar this morning
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

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#1011064 - 03/06/08 11:08 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
rosa2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 168
Loc: Hong Kong
Congratulations to your new girl Chris \:\) .

Yes, post her beautiful picture here.

We are very happy for you.

Rosa

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#1011065 - 03/06/08 11:14 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
rosa2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 168
Loc: Hong Kong
 Quote:


Rosa - Come back.....

:) I never left, Barb.

OK....i just saw your new recording and I was going to listen to it but better not because if I do, I won't post mine here tonight.

http://www.box.net/shared/l7qohd0qo4

Here I tried to put in more 8th notes as I recall Jazzwee saying he likes to hear lots of 8th notes. I hope you guys can hear that I tried to incorporate the lessons from 11-14 in here. Hope you can hear them. But still having lots of problem with articulation.

Rosa

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#1011066 - 03/06/08 11:28 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
I just listened Rosa. Very, very nice. You have definitely made some positive leaps.

I really didn't think you had left. I guess we should all occasionally post what we're up to - even though we aren't ready to post our playing. That way, the thread won't fall low on the page where it's hard to find. (And we can relieve Woody of his bumping duties \:D )
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

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#1011067 - 03/06/08 11:36 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
rosa2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 168
Loc: Hong Kong
Bravo Barb! I got to listen to it now. You sound very professional to me. Thanks for your kind comments.

Your LH stabbing is so good.

Rosa

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#1011068 - 03/06/08 11:41 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
jazzwee Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 6990
Loc: So. California
Rosa, those are great note choices. You were making nice melodies in there. Keep that up. I wouldn't change what you are doing there. We just have to work on the swing, accenting and legato on the eighth notes. So it's all about the feel. Most people when given a chance can come up with good melodies. In jazz it's just sped up and propelled with a certain articulation.

So can you work on doing the same thing but applying swing technique? (accent offbeat notes and absolute legato on eighth notes).

I like your mix of note lengths it's very nicely balanced. You may not even realize it but you had some rhythmically interesting lines there if you just swung it. The off center (time wise) landing of notes have a nice effect that could be emphasized by swing, once you get that squared away.
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#1011069 - 03/06/08 12:07 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc.
rosa2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 168
Loc: Hong Kong
Thanks for listening Jazzwee and the comments and suggestions.

 Quote:

accent offbeat notes and absolute legato on eighth notes.
You can tell I am having a lot of trouble with this and that's why it doesn't sound jazzy.

Should I work on getting all 8th notes legato first (ie. the 1st 8th note longer than the 2nd 8th note), and then when that is mastered, then do the accent on the offbeat.

I am having a terrible time with accenting the offbeat and that's why I tried to place a lot of ending phrases on the "+" of 4 and "+" of 8 to make myself accent on the off beat.

Rosa

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