But Autumn Leaves changes chords every measure. What is the reason for hitting the bass note on every 2 measures?

BTW, did someone do a midi on this so that we can see what they did?

Thanks.

Hi Rosa,

I just recorded some modified stride to the A section of Autumn Leaves. I can't do a midi file any more because my digital has been moved to another room (where my hubby and I practice our vibes, piano duo stuff). It's pretty obvious, though, to hear that bass note plunk.

http://www.box.net/shared/iqnjjn0o44

I didn't spend any time working this up, so you won't hear any rootless plunks on the + of 2. I just played what came natural to me.

Hope this helps.

Hello Swingin' Barb-

How are the practices going with you and Tom?

Hey Woody - It's fun jamming together. We do have our work cut out for us before taking the show on the road

Thanks Barb I hear that you skip chords, that is you play every other measure. So you only did rootless voicings to every other chord -- Am7, Gmaj7, F#m7b5, Em7, Am7, Gmaj7, F#m7b5, Em7.

Is the reasoning behind this that these chords have long measures?

Rosa - I did rootless for EVERY chord. But, for most of the A section, I plunked the bass note once every two measures as Jazzwee had talked about.

LOL...I don't have jazz ears.

What is then the reasoning behind plunking the bass only at every other measure and not every measure?

All I was doing was playing an example of what Jazzwee was talking about. I could have played it once for each measure, though.

Barb, The important part is it's fun! Nobody minds working on something if it's fun.

OK I'm back.

The idea is not to duplicate actual stride which will make the tune sound too oompah-oompah, which is not the "modern" sound.

Bass notes are occasionally "plunked" just to restore the tonality to the listener, which becomes vague with rootless voicings. Why every two measures? It's a balance. Hold the bass note too long and you lose the tonality. Do it too often and it sounds rote. So I picked something in the middle that would be typical.

It depends on the tune too. If the tune stays in one place, you won't need the bass note too much. My judgement call here is that, when I play AL, the ii-V sequence becomes obvious enough to my ears by playing one bass note for each ii-V.

To emulate a modern stride, the bass note would be played irregularly, so that pretty much excludes doing it every measure. Should you skip every two measures, three measures, four measures...? It's up to you but note that skipping the bass note raises tension which eventually needs to feel like it should be released. Two measures seems to be a moderate amount and your LH is not jumping around too much like a real stride playing.

Remember too that in ballad playing, the bass note is pedaled so you really don't have time to switch to rootless to bass.

When you hear someone play modern stride, then it all makes sense. A player might skip all bass notes for a chorus then bring it back in. It's all about the effect/atmosphere desired.

Bump

OK, since we're not posting here what is everyone working on? I'm still using the AL arps for warming up at the start of practice and usually go back to AL as improv later. Still working the Chopin B-minor waltz, and my rep items (up to about 15 - 20 songs everyday - more on weekends). I've added David Nevue's "Overcome" and I'm also tracking the Greg's Hymn Thread for Church Jazz. What about y'all?????

Hi woody....I am still working on the rootless voicing on AL and I am also following the reharmonization and improv in that church jazz thread by Greg. The giraffe neck is getting longer and longer -- when do we get to hear you??

I'm working on a problem of keeping the form in the middle of a solo. As my teacher says, I space out and start adding beats that shouldn't be there...

Remember to work on your swing guys and gals...

I'm painting my basement....

When I have gotten to sit down at the piano over the past few weeks, I started working on the rootless voicings. I also started on the melody and basic shells of ATTYA. Tried coming up with good voice led changes but decided to start in the exact same manner that we did with Autumn Leaves. I've also been trying to work on some basic arpeggio exercises that I found in Tim Richards jazz book.

Lucky me - I'm not painting my basement.

But - I am swamped. I've been spending a lot of time playing from my jazz fakebook of standards. I need to expand my repertoire, and better my sight reading skills.

My main focus these days has been in learning to comp for when my hubby and I play together. Those rootless voicings have been a life saver. I use the LH shell voicing and the rootless in the RH. The left hand needs that root since we won't have a bass player.

On the AL thread front, I've been playing Autumn Leaves combo style with LH rootless at my daily gig. (I play at my folks retirement home). Each time I play it, I improvise a chorus. I know, brave me I'm also playing Satin Doll combo style and eventually I will try improvising over those chords.

For that swing, I trade off between the arp exercise and Donna Lee at 3 different speeds.

Rosa,
I'm afraid it won't be for a while yet - possibly Christmas before I'm able to get a Zoom H2, but when I do I promise to post every song I can play at that time.

"What about y'all?????"

I'm working on "Take the A Train" using a walking bass throughout, trying to use all the great tips I've learned on it from this thread.

Sorry to post such an elementary question so late on. I've only just started to play around with Autumn Leaves! Am I right that you don't play the chords with your LH and melody with the right? They cross over don't they ie both hands?

With solo piano, you do typically play the chords in the LH and melody or solo in the right. If you're comping, you might play chords in both hands. Check out the lesson on 2+3 chords. There are times in solo piano where you'd play chords in both hands, but I don't think we've gone that far in this thread yet. Block chords.

In solo piano, you typically switch styles a lot ... 2+3 chords are a good way to quickly sound good. In that case, hands don't run into each other. Record yourself because you might find it boring to listen to as you play, but in fact, you are sounding good.

If you play with bass + drums, then your LH will typically play LH chords, simulating a guitarist or horn section. The hands don't run into each other than much, and it's ok to play very light left hand voicings. 1 note is just fine. It's also ok to move the melody up an octave. Don't feel you have to always play A or B types of voicings. Voice leading is what's most important, find the common tones.
As far as block chords, they don't have to be seen as 2 hand chords. The RH plays chords while the left hand has a few options, such as doubling the melody an octave below (shearing / theatre), playing walking bass, playing stride, playing rootless chords (a la Garland) or full blocks.

Simon288, specifically as described in this thread, you can think of the entire orchestra as the bass, the middle voices and the melody. As discussed in the section on 2+3 voicings, the bass is handled by the LH pinky. The thumbs of both hands play the inner voices (and some of the other nearby fingers will contribute as needed). The melody line is played by the RH pinky. So that's the way we explain it here.

As you focus on doing a solo, the LH takes on the chordal function by itself and the RH takes on single note lines to create melodies. Now in practice, for variation, this could change as LH and RH change roles for variation but what I'm describing here is the base.

There are more complex examples than this of course where Brad Melhdau plays the solo in the inner voicings (thumbs) while the outer part of the hands ground the harmony but we won't go into that.

Aah ok thanks for that! I got a bit confused as I was playing an AM7 to start (LH and all 4 notes) and noticed the first notes of the melody where in the same place. Think I need some quiet time to sit and read through the beginning of the thread more thoroughly.
I have only just been learning chord progressions, but I've yet to get used to playing shell voicings....time for some study.

Thanks Jazzwee

Simon, read through the "Lessons". It's less pages than reading the whole thread. You will find out that we never play Am7 as A C E G as in Tradional theory...

Please don't feel like you have to keep up with anyone who's already started all this. This is a long term thread and everyone should start at the beginning. We'll be here to answer questions as they come up. Don't rush now.

Hi Everyone,

I've been working on my AL Ballad for a while. I finally conquered the Red Dot syndrome for this piece and have a decent version to share.

http://www.box.net/shared/hh5i8pygwo

What has everyone else been up to?

Jazzwee - how are your lessons going?

Barb

Barb,

That was fantastic!!! You've been busy and creative!!

Thank you, Woody. Yes, "busy" is a good way to describe it. "Severely addicted" is another way to describe it.

Very nice Barb! Love those voicings.


I've been busy too, though not on AL.

Last week, I played Dolphin Dance (Herbie Hancock) with my teacher playing bass and I played eight or so choruses of solos. This was a milestone for me, first because Dolphin Dance is a very difficult tune. Maybe the most difficult one I've ever done. I always messed it up because it has a complex form, super-frequent modulations, difficult voicings, difficult keys, and not easy to solo over.

At the beginning of the year, he told me to drop Dolphin Dance since I wasn't ready for it. My teacher had very high standards though. I had to clearly state the harmony in both voicings and solos with making mistakes.

So last week, I told him that I ignored his instruction and that I was ready to play Dolphin Dance. Playing this live with my teacher, like a combo, has always been worse for me than the Red Dot Syndrome. There's not too many opportunities to play in a combo and there's the critical ear of the teacher watching my every move and solo line.

Well I did it without mistakes, was relaxed, had good solid groove, and had enough ideas to go eight choruses without my teacher getting bored. And a thumbs up from him at the end. My teacher is a world class jazz player so playing together with him is an experience in itself.

His only advice at the end was that I play more quarter notes.

I think I just graduated to the next level. Somehow nothing seems so difficult anymore.

Wow, Jazzwee. That was a wonderful lesson update. Eight choruses of Dolphin Dance! You were flying.

I was grinning as I read your blog.

Thanks Barb.

I'll call this the Red Dot blog.

I've been at this close to 4 years so it gives everyone a chance to see that progress is possible within a short time frame. It seemed impossible at first to concentrate on so many details and improvise publicly. But I noticed for myself that it starts to go to the subconscious automatically (after you've done it often enough) and I seem to have more time to judge how to phrase lines or develop an idea.

Early in my learning process, it was more this constant battle to hit the right notes to the chord. I don't even do that anymore. I'm mostly listening to myself play, like an outsider.

I noticed that once you've gotten to this point, since you're just the outsider watching a player, the red dot fades in the background.