Has anyone here purchased this course. I am a beginner who has never played a note, and it looked interesting. If anyone one here has actually used this course, I would appreciate an explanation of how it works, and what methods are used to teach someone with no piano experience. Also, would they feel that a course like this is better then purchasing some beginner books on my own. I would like to learn some basics before I look for a piano teacher. Thanks.

Check out the discussion at:

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/32/498.html

Thanks, but I would still like information of the Piano Magic course if anyone has any.

There's a discussion of Piano Magic (and others) here:

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/32/554.html

Hi

It works for me...works for hundreds of others too...loads of fun ...makes playing piano a lot easier than you ever thought possible

Will make those who have struggled with piano for years ...cry...when they finally get the bigger picture and learn how music thinks.

Ever wanted to sit down infront of family and friends and just play and play and play...tune after tune after tune...then Mike and the members will help you reach that goal!


NO...I'M NOT ON COMMISSION...before someone else asks...okay ...LOL


I've said this to "markb" already... I've been a member there for about 16 months and have never had so much fun in my life (and the offer is extended to anyone else who wants to hear how I play in such a short space of time? ...just email me and I will gladly send you my latest midis for you to hear)


regards


Lee

While I got your ear (again), Lee, what do you think the minimum daily practice time is to get any substantial benefit from Pianomagic? I could probably get about 1/2 hour a day to non-lesson material. Is that enough?

Hi mark


1/2 an hour is fine...Mark it ain't like anything you have ever read before...it is so simple I cannot believe no-one has realized it before.

The big problem you will face though is that *YOU* won't want to play for only 1/2 hour a day...you will be like me like a child again just wanting to play and play and play ( which is not too good on your marriage though! )

Mark...I am trying my best to not make it sound "too good to be true" (and I know I am not doing too well in that respect )because I know there are so many things in all walks of life that always seem that way ...and I have been duped into so many get rich quick schemes and bought into other things that have been a total waste of money for me

I am going to stop harping on about it ...you've heard the way I play and you liked it and that is honestly from nowhere to how I play today.

So its up to you ...I promise I'll be one of the many members there who'll welcome you into our secret world of playing piano easily and with more fun than you are ever going to believe!


regards


Lee


regards

I hear everything you all say, but no one here has yet described in any kind of detail exactly as to what is involved. It may be new, it may be revolutionary, it may allow you to dance when you practice, or even learm while you sleep, but it would be nice if someone who uses that method to actually explain a little bit exactly how it works, what methods are used, what types of things should be practiced, etc. Thanks again.

Hi hmr516

I think Mike describes it better than I ever could :-

Scales do NOT sound like music. Playing scales too early (if ever) may actually hamper your progress at playing the music you can hum, whistle or sing.

Music is based on chords...not scales. As a result, scales do not sound like the tunes we hum, whistle or sing...chords do!

Hundreds of songs share the exact same chord pattern, and can be played with the exact same left hand movements from one song to the next. If you can play the left hand to just ONE of these songs, you can play the left hand to ALL of them.

Some chord patterns make it nearly impossible to play a wrong tone.
Even the tunes of many songs are similar...and sometimes they are identical.


When you understand how chords work, you'll be able to THINK like music.When you think like music, you can play most songs, with both hands, the first time you try ...even if you have never played before! How is this possible? It's magic...Piano Magic! It changed my life; it can change your life, too!

that about covers it I think


My bit...

You will learn how and why chords move through a song so that you can see the similarities between many, many, many songs

You will learn rhythm patterns to supplement your melody and how to play them both hands together

You can have daily help if you need it from Mike and all the members to get you to where you want to be.

Within the private members section there is lots of overhead video and audio demonstrations to help you get *it!*... that, is all put together by Mike for his members.

I can't or don't want to force you to join...okay? the decision is yours ...I play that way and love it..thats really all I can say about it.

If you play really well already, enjoy reading sheet music, have found a great teacher, can play loads of songs at the drop of a hat, have fun already and find playing the piano easy don't join...if you don't have any of the above? do!


Lee

Thanks for the answer, which basically was a repeat of the info as detailed on the website. I guess no one here can be more specific. The website was not very specific either. Thanks anyway.

I haven't signed up for the course yet, so I'm not promoting anything. However, if you want specific answers, go to the source. E-mail Mike Anderson (the Pianomagic guy) and ask questions. He responded to my e-mails quite in-depth. Basically, you're learning chord patterns that are common in popular music. There are other courses that teach them, too. Obviously, since they're selling their wares, the creators aren't going to tell you exactly what to do, but I've found that they're very willing to give you an idea of what the courses entail.

Speaking ONLY for me, my problem with the self teaching methods after trying a couple of books is (1)my lack of self discipline (to practice regularly) and (2) not hving somenoe to ask questions of when not sure of something. Personally, I am thrilled that I gave up trying to self teach to having a teacher.
I suspect that on-line methods provide a mechanism for you to ask questions.

Hi Lee B

quote:-

"I suspect that on-line methods provide a mechanism for you to ask questions."

er...hello?...yes the online member only forum where you can ask all the questions your little heart desires

hey... hmr?

as the saying goes ;-

You can only lead a horse to water you can't make it drink

you either believe me or you don't... its up to you?

either way I sure hope your piano playing gives you as much pleasure as mine does me


Lee

O.K., so now I have signed up. (Money means nothing to me.) My extremely early impressions:

Yes, its a real site, with lessons and a forum.
It is definitely directed at the person who wants to play popular songs, for fun, by ear.
It seems to be directed at the complete beginner as far as playing by ear (as opposed to sight reading or playing classical music.) The site owner seems friendly and responsive, but the forum is smaller than I expected.

What remains to be seen is if it gets far enough beyond the bare basics such that I will feel I got my money's worth. Could go either way.

Doug

Well done Doug

I am looking forward to hearing about your journey and experiences and the lightbulbs switching on!

and hearing your tunes in the recital hall!

Just one teeny correction though Doug...it is actually directed at the person who wants to play the songs that he or she actually likes! ...how kool is that?


regards

Lee

P.S.

I've just said hello to you over there...check it out


P.P.S.

It can only go one way You've just bought yourself a whole years worth of piano lessons and support make sure you use it!

Alright, Doug, I want a minute-by-minute update. So what's the latest report look like?

And what do you mean when you say it's geared toward people who want to play for fun (as opposed to for profit)?

Hello, All

My name is Tim, but they call me "Balladeer" over at Pianomagic.com. I had to visit just to see what Seaside Lee was up to - and what you all are up to! From what I've read most of you sound much like me up until a year ago...having a big desire to play piano and not knowing exactly which road to take. Actually, I was past that intersection and had basically given up and relegated myself to trying to enjoy just listening to classical piano....that's when I stumbled onto PianoMagic.

Seaside Lee isn't paying me much, so I'll be brief. Try it, you'll like it. It's like nothing else out there.

Balladeer

I am anxiously awaiting updates from people like Doug. I would love to know their feelings after being a member there for a week. Thanks.

oops- double post
Doug

Quasi-serious answer: I mean for fun as opposed to competitively. A course like this isn't going to help you with your Chopin, and your piano teacher may smack you with a ruler if you do it in front of her. To me, the potential fun is having a favorite tune in my head, and being able to sit down a play a non-embarrassing version of it just for a hoot. (I may even sing if no ones around.)

Usual smarta** answer: I certainly still intend to make a profit with my playing. I envision myself down in the lounge of the Pasadena Hilton, pounding out "feelings" for the adoring, slightly drunk matrons.

Doug

It's definitely not for classical music. In fact, of the popular music courses I've seen, they've all been pretty upfront about that. If you want to play classical music, this ain't it.

Regarding making a profit (or making some spare change) from your playing, that seems more reasonable from a course like this (or Sudnow), which concentrates on solo piano playing. Your drunk matron fantasy may yet be fulfilled.

I don't usually do this (post on other piano forums), but your recent discussions have generated quite a flow of email my direction...almost tooooo much. So, here I am. Let’s yak:

Hi Mark,
It doesn't work that way. If you would enjoy playing and applying PianoMagic for 2 minutes, do 2 minutes. If you would enjoy more time, do more time. If you cannot E*N*J*O*Y your time at the keyboard, go do something else. Why? To be ‘really, really GOOD’ at whatever interests you, ya gotta find the PASSION for it!

Without ‘passion’ the playing of music remains only a ‘motion’. With ‘passion’ the playing of music becomes an ‘Emotion’; it becomes an inspiration, which leads to greater creativity, which leads to more personal expression and growth, which is FUN...and leads directly back to feed the ‘passion’.

Whether it’s playing piano, bowling, cooking, writing or whatever, to become outstanding you must...Must..MUST LOVE DOING IT! To become good you only have to like doing it. If it isn’t FUN, it won’t be done! {THAT is the story of my life}.

Whether you play the music of Beethoven or Hank Williams, ya gotta have FUN to keep doing it minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day, week by week, month by month and yEAR by yEAR!

Back to your question, “what’s the minimum daily practice time?” For ME, when the FUN stops...I stop! {I have been known to play as much as 18 hours a day. Not required or advised; but I’m addicted beyond hope!}

Hi hmr516,
‘It’ works according to how YOU ‘think’. What you’ll be ‘thinking’ is the logical association between Major chords, Minor chords and all their ‘Cousin Chords’. Being able to THINK chords is your key to success in PianoMagic.

Anybody can play chords, but it seems few people know why they learned chords. The truth is, if you know chords, you already can play by ear. If you can’t play by ear already, it’s because you don’t know chords.

What method is used?
(1) You’ll simplify brain activity and body movement enough to experience the common sense logic of chord movement, combined with moment-by-moment ‘listening’ to the sounds you create.

(2) You’ll learn the most common patterns of rhythmic movement I use as a professional performer. With these Left hand patterns, you’ll be able to provide movement and interest to accompany a melody.

(3) As you learn to simultaneously listen and think, you’ll progress into knowing the ‘Cousin Chords’ that can substitute for a Basic Major Chord, which ‘Cousin’ can be used and why it works.

(4) You’ll also find ‘Accidental Chords’ in the more difficult tunes. The Circle of 5THS defines exactly how to resolve an ‘accidental chord’ back to the ‘home’ chord.

If you already know the above, you certainly don’t need me! Just PLAY and ENJOY!

What type of things should be practiced?
The music you most enjoy hearing. Make a list of ALL your favorite songs that you already can hum, whistle or sing from beginning to end. If you know the tune, you’ll be able to play many of those songs from day one; others will take more time.

The EZ songs will be harmonized with the Three Major Chords named by the 1st, 4th and 5th scale tones. If you’re playing in the ‘Key of C’, you’ll use the chords of C, F and G to harmonize a melody; in the ‘Key of F’ you’ll use F, Bb and C, etc. Regardless of the ‘Key’, the harmony chords will always be named by the 1st, 4th and 5th scale tones.

Actually, the web site is extremely specific, but you were looking for info on the ‘doing’ of music...not the ‘thinking’ of music. ‘Doing’ music can be very tedious and frustrating for me. ‘Thinking like music thinks’ is a personal pleasure and a creative freedom beyond anything I have ever experienced.

Because I can understand it (think it), I can do it. You can also. This is what the web site is showing you. If it doesn’t make sense for you, then it wouldn’t be a good course to pursue.

There are many excellent courses on the Internet and each was created by someone who LOVES what they do! They ALL have something important to share with students. That ‘something’ is PASSION.

Every author of a course, including me, is doing their utmost to share a wonderful life changing experience with others. Find one that inspires you and jump in. Or find a private instructor that inspires you and sign up. Just find a way to BE INSPIRED and you will do exceedingly well in any endeavor!

Correct. The focus is NON-TRADITIONAL music.

Right again. We do NOT discuss reading music at all. Instead, we begin at the source of written music...the creative spark behind the tune. The person who writes the music that ‘music readers read’, first creates the music ‘by ear’. If it sounds good, they write it on paper and publish it for others to enjoy.

What’s the difference between the composer and the performer?
For music readers, the composer ‘creates’ and the performer ‘expresses’ that creation as rendered on paper.

For those who play by ear, the composer ‘creates’ the original tune, and the performer ‘re-creates’ a personalized interpretation of it.

Folks who play by ear are basically ‘para-phrasing’ the songs they know and love. For ME, that’s more interesting. Everybody can tell the same story, but because they have personalized it, the story sounds different from one person to the next.

We all sound different when we speak. We all sound different when we sing. Isn’t it logical that we all should sound equally different when we play?

Non-Traditional music gives us that opportunity to express our uniqueness. Non-Traditional performers who do it well are called ‘ARTISTS’. In the classics, those who do it well are called ‘PERFORMERS’. (I am unfamiliar with the term 'classical concert artist’...‘performer’ is more accurate and more common.)

Yup. If you don’t already play by ear, regardless of previous experience, you ARE a beginner. Start with Lesson One.
If you already play by ear, but don’t know how you do it, start with Lesson One.
If you want to learn why more than Three Basic Major Chords are used in much non-traditional music, the first step is learn how to locate and identify the order of Three Basic Major Chords. Start with Lesson One.

Once you know the order of how those chords appear in music, you’ll also be able to identify where the ‘Cousin Chords’ can be inserted as substitutes. As you learn chord variations and their ‘expected’ movement, you’ll be able to add even more chords to your spontaneous arrangements...and you’ll know WHY they work before you ever insert them.

You a ‘size hound’, Doug? :rolleyes: You should have seen it when there was only ONE post!

If you want the Forum to be bigger, USE IT!
Are my responses to questions smaller than you expected?


If you don’t move far enough beyond the bare basics to amaze yourself, it will be due to failing to follow simple instructions designed to get your 'thinker' moving in the right direction. So far you seem to be fairly communicative and bright; you don't have a problem with 'thinkin' that I can perceive. So...I'm confident you'll do well. I expect it, and I'm there daily to assist.

The Forums are there for you to post questions and observations directly to me. If you have no questions, then I assume all is well. If all is not well, and you post no questions, I will be unable to assist you. If I have to be psychic for you to succeed......you'll be disappointed!

Then let’s set THAT as a goal to fulfill within the year!

I'm serious. It isn’t unusual for students to begin playing publicly, sometimes for pay, within a few months of applying PianoMagic ‘thinkin’. If you seriously would like to play for pay, the techniques in Piano Magic are geared to lead you in that direction. Once you can do them, you can even augment the techniques by applying info from other great courses.

Check out David Sprunger’s site at www.playpianotoday.com. He focuses completely on accompaniment patterns you might incorporate. (That boy can SING, too! Sheeesh...if I could sing like HIM, I wouldn’t play melody either! Sadly, I sound like a sick frog when I sing. I have no choice. I must play solo piano (melody, harmony and rhythm) or sit quietly and only listen to others demonstrate their talent.)

Duane Shinn at www.playpiano.com also has some excellent stuff, as well as some kool video demos.

David Lawrence at www.piano-by-ear.com focuses on Gospel music for church use.

Jermaine Griggs with www.hearandplay.com has a ton of excellent info.

There are MANY excellent courses. The question you’ll have is, ‘WHICH ONE IS RIGHT FOR ME?’

Which one? The answer is found in the one that most inspires you. On the other hand, what’s wrong with trying all of them? You can get a well rounded musical education in ‘traditional’ music. Why not do the same thing with ‘non-traditional music’?

Start with the one that ‘clicks’ within your imagination, spurs your inner desire and causes you to fulfill a musical dream!

Mark, I couldn’t have said it better myself!

It doesn’t matter how you learn to play...just enjoy the experience. If it isn’t fun, try to find out WHY.

Some folks are geared toward the classics. I LOVE the classics, but they require more work than I want to put forth and my audiences generally want ‘POP’. Instead, I have a very clear understanding of how to play non-traditional music, the music I most enjoy, which also thankfully pays the bills.

Sorry for such a long post. I won’t make a habit of it, but I thought in this instance, you might want to get it 'directly from the horses mouth'.

If you have questions or comments, I'll check back occasionally.

I wish for all of you to experience the FUN of playing! Ain't nuttin' better!

Late day one update.

After going through most of the pre-packaged online lessons, I was on the fence about what I would report back here. A lot of overlap with material I have picked up elsewhere. It does start out at an extremely basic level. But I did run across a couple of ideas where his teaching is different, and couple of things I wanted to work on.

So at this point, I'm thinking, not a total waste of money, but I will probably quickly move on to the next thing (must try all teach yourself programs. . .)

Just now, I found on their forum a video the site leader made to respond to some questions and illustrate some of his principals. Blew me away. It is just spot on what I want to learn, and gave me some immediate ideas to work on.

We'll see if I still feel this positive in a few weeks, but I may be hooked. (Doesn't mean its for everyone, but it might really fit what I want.)

Doug

Thanks for the update, Doug. Please keep them coming.

BTW, how much time do you actually spend on the Web site versus time at the piano? I don't want to have to run to the computer every five minutes. There's competition in this house for the computer, and my competition will always win. (OTOH, I have *no* competition for access to the piano.)

Well, for me it will be nearly all time at the piano. I will use the online material and the ability to correspond with Mike as both motivation and a reminder of what to work on next. The idea is to spend a bunch of time at the keyboard doing it.

What I am going to do this morning is make a list of 10 or 12 songs I want to play, and then start playing them at the very simplest level. The plan is then to work up to making them progressively more interesting sounding. (eventually, maybe a cross between Jerry lee Lewis and Liberace?)

I actually probably knew enough about playing by ear to be doing what I'm doing now without having signed up for the course. What the course is giving me so for is 1) motivation 2) some structure to my approach 3)a few specific ideas I might not have come up with on my own, and 4)a resource to go to with questions, evaluation of what I am doing, etc. If I end up really liking the course, it will probably be #4 that does it for me.

My update in a week or so will probably be more meaningful.

Doug

Doug


I'm looking forward to the update


Lee

Hi,
I'm another stray from pianomagic, here becauase this discussion has spilled into the forums there, courtesy of Seaside Lee and Doug.

I've been a member for about a year and haven't tried any other courses because I'm totally happy with the one I have.

Can I have a go at trying to answer the original questions?

How does it teach beginners? Well everyone starts as a beginner, really, because it is a totally play by ear method. The basic lessons are very basic indeed but actually contain the whole structure of the method. I suspect that beginners probably take to the first dozen lessons more readily than those with some experience of traditional methods who may balk at the simplicity and miss the point.After the basics comes decoration, broken down into the most useful and pleasing embellishments to the
melody and chords you'll be using by then. And after that is the most useful part of all ,in my opinion, which is the forums. I'm suprised Doug thought them thin because there are huge numbers of A/V demos and discussions on everything from basic questions on say, using the sustain pedal correctly to hugely sophisticated material on chord progressions and points of style. This is where you really learn, both from existing material and from the questions that you ask yourself because Mike is a genuinely interactive teacher who works with students individually and responds constructively and helpfully (and with endless patience) to examples of our playing and progress.

Better than buying a book? You work it out.

To you magicians:

Could one muddle through practicing favorite classical stuff and perhaps even scales while partaking of piano magic to explore interests in contemporary music and improvised playing?

Hi Phil

"Balladeer" would probably the best one to answer your question as he loves classical music ...it aint my thang really.

I would probably have to say that Mozart, Beethoven & Co. kinda had it going on in their time and their arrangements would most likely be impossible to improve upon.

However, at pianomagic you will learn how to play with more expression and emotion in your music ...which may help?

I'll have a chat with Tim and Mikey and see if they can answer your question...okay?

I wouldn't think though that continuing learning sheet music and playing scales would hinder your learning in anyway...infact Mike reads sheet music quite easily

I practise scales quite often because, I *want* to not because I have to...because I want to be able to play in other keys.

Mike often uses an analogy that:- "you have to learn to speak before you can read books and if you learn to play by ear and speak music first it makes learning to read music easier"..so, it may probably help?


Lee


BTW ...A/V = "audio and video lessons"

Perhaps some of you Pianomagic fans can give us an indication of the kind of progress you've made over say the last year. (midi files would be helpful)

I'm genuinly considering the jump from classical as most of the music I like to play is POP. My primary goal is to just sit at the keyboard and improvise.

Rodney