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Hi.
I'm looking for an instruction guide to help start playing piano. I play guitar and knw the notes for that, I guess I'll have to start learning the left hand notes. I want to skip theory as I already know what a measure, a quorter note , a scale and an arpegio . Although a guitar is played with both hands, when I try to play the piano, I find it difficult to synchronise both hands. I can make some noise with both hands simultaneously, but I need a quick fix to teach me how to play both hands together. what is the best guide or excrise program to teach this aspect. If this is something that comes with a lot of practice, there should be still a guide that goes their quicker than going thru all the theory. any help is appreciated.

Good question. I was thinking about this as well.

There's no quick fix. You have to learn to play different notes at different tempi in each hand. You can't really fast-track your way to learning this in my opinion....you just have to put in the hours.

That said, I would learn some of the easier minuets by Mozart and Bach - those give you a good variety of left-hand work without being too difficult.

OK, I think I asked the question in a simplified way, so I got a simplified answer. I'll try again.
when playing both hands, are you concentrating on both hands the same way. Or as with the right hand struming the strings in the guitar you pay more attention to the left hand fingering. Does the left hand in piano gets less attention since it usually plays cords compared to melody with the right hand?. where is your attention in the middle of all this?.

OK, I think I asked the question in a simplified way, so I got a simplified answer. I'll try again.
when playing both hands, are you concentrating on both hands the same way. Or as with the right hand struming the strings in the guitar you pay more attention to the left hand fingering. Does the left hand in piano gets less attention since it usually plays cords compared to melody with the right hand?. where is your attention in the middle of all this?.

For me it depends on which hand is the more difficult. If I'm only playing chords in the left hand, or even single notes, and the melody is fast 1/16ths, then the right hand is going to get more attention.

But I play a lot big jumps, stride-like left hands, and I *have* to watch the left hand (tho this is getting less so), and I get my right hand down pat and it's along for the ride. Also, because I play dance music, the left hand is more important - the rhythm and tempo - so that's my first priority. Sometimes I do a lot of accidental improvisation in the melody

That being said, you *do* get to a place where you are well-aware of both hands and the music they are both producing at the same time, and you have to do that to play well.

One way to do that is to play the hands separately (and lots of folks here will recommend that). That way you have a good familiarity with both the sound and the feel of both hands, so when you go to put them together you can hear them both.

One way to get them coordinated is to figure out exactly when the beat is in both hands and practice them together with just the notes on the beat, then everything else is in between.

So for me it is simultaneously an aural and a more intellectual process - hearing both parts, and being aware intellectually of where the landmarks (beats) are and which notes the hands are at on those beats.

It's much easier to do with simple music, and really fun to work on with music way above your head So I work with easier stuff, stuff that's challenging, and then spice it with stuff way over my head, just to keep me interested

So the easy books are good to just get the notes in your fingers and your hands to working, and you can skip the theory until there's a piece of it that's useful to you.

Cathy

Adrenalic, the only way you will manage it is constant practice. There are no short cuts. I am working on 'The Entertainer' by Scott Joplin. I started on Sunday morning by playing the first page of the manuscript with the left hand only and hummed the right hand melody. I kept this up all day, nipping in and out of the music room. The next day I started playing the right hand melody until I had it mastered. Today I spent an hour playing both together very slowly to start with until after a few hours it just fell into place. I am now practicing that portion with both hands together and it feels brilliant. Tomorrow I will make my way through the secon page, in the same manner until I hvae it all cracked! It us fun and I really enjoy it.

Hey adrenalic....I am also a guitar player learning the keyboards, although 30 years in between...

I still learn HS (hands seperate) before starting HT (hands together). After I have a piece in hand, then I tend to think melody, but not hand parts, if that makes sense.

Also, as a side-note, I found once I got over the first few months of trying, my guitar experience has helped tremendously. I tend to think in beats, not hand parts, and I think that comes from guitar.

As far as the left hand having less to do, I think you might be in for an awakening just how busy your left hand can get. You're correct that the melody tends to be in the right hand (but not always), but that makes the right hand easier to remember sometimes. The left is off doing its own thing (or thats how it can feel)and is much harder to remember until you get the piece "in-hand". At least, that's my experience. I have to really work on LH being in time, on time, and not overpowering.

I agree, there are no short cuts, just practice until, one day, it clicks and just happens. Then you start a new piece, and start over. It gets easier each time, but it is a process you must go through. 2 years here and still working on it every day.

Good luck, and let us know how you progress...

Mike

When you start learning a piece, you pay more attention to whichever part is harder. Your attention shifts as you progress, however, as particular difficulties come into focus. BTW, there are plenty of pieces where left hand plays melody and right hand plays accompaniment, or when the melody shifts from hand to hand all the time.

The key to all hand coordination problems is:
1. Play hands separate first.
2. Play slowly.
3. Don't forget to count.

I missed answering your first question on exercises.

You really should look into a study method. Alfreds and Faber both do a very good job of bringing the hands together.

If you are dead set against a method book, then I would suggest getting an EASY arrangement book by Dan Coates. He has a bunch of music in most every style, and the benefit of his work over a fake book is you will get LH parts written out. Learn to read the bass clef enough to learn left hand parts, and begin to build the skills to play hands together, one song at a time. He does give some fingering hints, but you will get a lot more help at first with a method book. There are some basic fingering "guides" you will learn from the method books that you will need to figure out yourself if you go it alone.

Not that "re-inventing the wheel" as far as fingering goes is not do-able. There are some great players on this forum that do exactly that every time they play. Listen to Seaside Lee, Bob Muir, Mr. Super-Hunky, Buck, Mahlzeit, and others I am forgetting, that play by ear. Maybe one of them will jump in with some ideas outside of method books.

.
OK, you people are great. A lot of useful info, but I'm still trying for the shortcut. So my question now: when you are putting both hands together after practicing each seperately, is your attention focused on how the music sounds as a whole or where the notes should fall in the rythm or both ( and that's a heck a lot of concentration. hehehe)?

that's a start I guess. I'll look them up and start practicing. Forget shortcuts

My teacher taught me at the very beginning that when reading music you must read up and down/left to right. Some people make the mistake of trying to read both treble and bass clef seperately while they move left to right. Get into the habit of matching notes top and bottom and you'll find it easier.

I can't believe I am answering this question because I'm only playing 10months.

Sometimes the best answers come from those of us just learning. Our mistakes and successes are fresh in our minds.

You are right about reading both, then left to right, although I learned bottom to top. I suppose either one works as long as you read both before moving to the right.

I'll weigh in, and I've only been playing two months! Seriously, the hands together issue is a real challenge. I've found that, after I learn one hand's part, I can even just try tapping a simple beat with the other hand (on my knee) to begin to break some attention "loose" so I can do hands together. It's amazing how much harder it is to play the part that I thought I had down, the instant I try to tap the beat. I think it helps, but honestly it's all too early to know!

I have recently learned to do scales HT, so I can play an E major scale against a C major scale, which I think sounds really cool (ok, so I have a beginner's ear too!). Anyway, I think the different fingering of the two scales helps me learn that split attention thing. It seems like it's more about getting some play on autopilot, and then learning how to shift attention quickly for the rest... Again, though, maybe I'll see it all differently next month!

there is a lot of stuff mentioned here that I will try to apply in my practice. what I would like to mention tho is that when I try to play with both hands at the same time, one hand will try to follow the other in the rythm. In other words the slower hand will try to speed up to immitate the faster hand. I guess this is a natural begginers reflex which will change once I involve my other senses as seeing and hearing and focussing on what I'm playing with each hand. I believe all that comes with practice, practice and more practice. OK, no shortcuts :p

Bach inventions!! if you could learn at least 5 of them, the coordination problem that you have would diminish...

see, even after several years of learning, i still find those inventions are hard because they demand hand coordination a lot with voices on both hands.

I agree with signa... over the summer (I went on an invention quest) I played through all of the inventions and memorized 8 or 9. They are SO much better than Hanon to warm up with or learn technique.


Matt

Matt, if you were my teacher's student, he'd love you and consider you be his model student having played through all the inventions. no wonder my teacher doesn't like me much, because he insists on me doing them all while i only promised doing a few. it just takes me too long to learn and memorize one.

ok... maybe I'm pessimistic but I read:

then I did go over to sheetmusicarchive.net to look at the inventions... think oh.. this can't be it.. they can't be serious to give this to people playing for 2 / 10 / no months to solve a hand coordination problem.

But you do?!? come from that cloud your on back to this mortal world where normal people live, you piano freak of natures!

Sorry couldn't resist. :p