Kawai Don, what in your opinion, would a new large RX5 require in terms of "prep"? Should a person spend $800-$1000 to prep this brand new piano?

Marty & Gary,

I didn't say I want no prep.

I said manufacturers should do full prep before letting their pianos out of their factories. If they don't do a full prep how do they evaluate the condition of the pianos? How do they know it meet the quality control standard?

Dealers should only need to do touch up prep and customizations. If the pianos arrive at the dealer in such horribly unplayable condition that they need full prep, the manufacturers should really look into the way they make their pianos.

Blame it on shipping? If shipping could cause such serious mis-alignment, then all the "mass-produced" Japanese pianos would have fallen apart before arriving in North America!

Some people have been in the industry for far too long that they are brain washed to believe the old way is the right way and the only way.

PNO, you hit it on the head!

Yesterday, I had a long conversation with a dealer that said the same thing, "Dealers should only need to do touch up prep and customizations. If the pianos arrive at the dealer in such horribly unplayable condition that they need full prep, the manufacturers should really look into the way they make their pianos"!

He said the assessment and evaluation determines the prep. But bolt tightening, bedding the action, tuning and voicing are as standard as putting on the legs. The other action stuff, etc., is done based on the evaluation. A full prep is and should not be required at the time of delivery especially on the Kawai and Yamaha.

Regarding prep, everyone has a different standard. I talk with quality techs that claim they can get a good new piano to a good standard in 4 hours, others that say 8 hours, and others that say 30 hours.
I have given talks to dealer groups of high level pianos on how PianoCraft prepares pianos and 99% of them tell me that you don't need to do most of what we do in order to sell a piano. And they are right.
There are also different levels of technicians. Some can do in 6 hours what another could never do, no matter how much time they have. Others wouldn't know what to do on a piano after 5-8 hours worth or work.
There are lots of pianos that a dealer can do a minimum prep on and most people would be very happy with the performance of these instruments. But when you are trying to get a piano to be at its optimum, it takes expertise and time.
As for Kawais and Yamahas, these manufacturers know what it takes, AT THE DEALER, to get their pianos to a high level, and they have thorough and detailed steps that they recommend their dealers take to get their pianos to a high level. Most dealers don't even come close to following these steps, precisely because Kawais and Yamahas are often more than good enough to sell and please the client with minimal work. But when you hear a good Yamaha or Kawai that has been gone over without compromise, you will hear a much much better piano.

I agree with pno and Busy Bee here. I as a customer have been under the impression that pianos NEED and must have a set-up and prep, before they can at their best. Well - I think an expensive grand should be "set-up", that is just checking that all the bolts and screws are tight and the action plays as it should. Just a check to make sure that everything is in order. Heaps and heaps of so called "Prep" is not necessary or shouldnt be, if the piano has been done right in the factory. I think the factory prep should be more detailed and done by the best experts. The should be MORE attention to prep at the factory level - like what Kawai are doing with the Shigeru line.

This factory prep could be based on the asking price of the individual piano. Like one would not expect a cheap Chinese upright to have the same prep work in the factory as a 7 ft semi-concert grand.

If the manufacturers did greater prep it would just increase the dealer cost which would be passed on to he consumer. As long as "x" amount of prep is done in a satisfactory manner, I don't see why it matters who does it.

Regarding "factory" and "dealer" preparation, I would say that even an instrument prepped perfectly at the factory will, at some stage require preparation by the dealer (or technician) - mostly some time after the sale and shipping to the customer.
Just as an example: The Steingraeber D we have at home came to us last September. As far as I know, it was manufactured/finished in about March 2008 - in the time between March and September the piano has been played in by machines and people, and it has been tuned and regulated several times in that period. Before it was delivered to us from Bayreuth (about 200 km), Steingraeber regulated, voiced, and tuned the instrument. It has now been with us for over 8 months - in that time it has been tuned 3 times (yes, the strings are still stretching) and regulated once (the let-off adjusted to compensated for settling of the felt). The technician/dealer who does it for me has spent at least 12 hours with the instrument so far (to be fair: I have never seen anyone be so meticulous), and he will be spending more time on it. He'll do another full regulation and voicing (if necessary) before a concert in July, and he has already said that it will probably take up to another year for all things to have settled properly when he said that then the instrument will be ready for yet another complete fine regulation and voicing.

What I am trying to say is: Of course any instrument should leave the factory well prepped and tuned and arrive at the customer in that form from the dealer as well, but I think that that should be a given. What is important, however, is that especially in the first year or two when things are still settling, the dealer (or the dealer's technician) re-adjusts things as necessary. While I think it is a nice gimmick of Kawai to send their master technician to people's homes to regulate and voice it - what is the point on an almost completely new instrument (please let me know if that impression is wrong - I don't even know if they offer this service over here) which takes its time to settle in? Where the real monetary value in "dealer prep" lies is the after sales care in the first 1 or 2 years. Agreed - this in that form is probably only "worth it" on a high-end grand.
I am glad to say that so far I haven't received a single invoice for the tuning and regulating ... but then for the technician it is also a matter of pride to get the absolutely last bit out of the instrument. And at the end, I am sure he will have spent something more like 30 hours.

Markus

Replied to Marty Flinn:

Well said, learned a lot, thanks.

But, always a but...I am not sure as customers what's wrong with looking for the "lowest price"? Maybe for the dealer it's a very bad thing. Of cause the service/quality matters too, but how do the average guys justify the service may or may not be there? Tech is money, nobody is going to argue with that. For a high end piano, this discussion does matter, but for the pianos price about/below five or six thousands, $2000 prep makes sense? Believe me, most people understand they can only get what they paid for, and this applies to the dealers' work as well.

By the way, single out certain group of people or culture really makes reading this post very uncomfortable.

mjs,

I suppose it is a dealer's tech who is taking care of your instrument?

Did you know beforehand that you would not get invoiced for this already 12 hrs of work [i.e. was this part of the deal]?
As you put it it sounds as if you are surprised not to have got any invoices?

schwammerl.