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#1019781 - 07/26/06 04:22 PM Re: Popular music is flexible
markb Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 2593
Loc: Maryland
Hi Lee,

I didn't realize that you're that old. ;\)
_________________________
markb--The Count of Casio

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#1019782 - 07/26/06 04:23 PM Re: Popular music is flexible
IrishMak Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 1614
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Seaside_Lee:
BTW I have just had the pleasure of listening to the Paul Anka "Rock Swings" album...and I loved the way he has taken modern songs, then sang them with the backing of an Orchestra and given them a swing feel.

Its very kool

[/b]
It is a very cool album!
_________________________
-Mak

1889 Mason & Hamlin screwstringer upright
Kawai MP-4 digital

---------------------------
When life hands you lemons, throw them back and add some of your own. Stupid life.

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#1019783 - 07/26/06 04:28 PM Re: Popular music is flexible
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4242
Loc: Arizona.
Lee:

I fully support your improvistaional methods 100%. As you know, "interpreting" a song is as unique as the individual performer playing it.

The finished product can sound absolutely fantastic, or it may end up sounding like alien outer-space music!

I guess it just depends on how closely the tastes and likes of the listener and the actual performer is.

I for one am very proud and fond of my interpretation of "stairway to heaven". Some people liked it, and others could not even recognize it!!.

Beuty is in the eye of the beholder and for that reason you will always get a varied response to your "improvisations".

Here in Arizona, many people like the Frank Lloyd Wright architecture found in some communities. I personally think that some of the home designs were modeled straight out of an episode of the "Jetsons"!!, again, to each his own.

I personally like your own interpretation of the song better for more reasons than just what it sounds like. Probably because you have made it "your own" as opposed to just replaying what someone else has already done!!

Mt vote is to continue down the road of interpretation, this is where the real "Sea-side Lee" shines best!!


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#1019784 - 07/26/06 04:59 PM Re: Popular music is flexible
Seaside_Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2167
Loc: Blackpool, UK
Thanks Hunky

Nice to have you back \:D

 Quote:
or it may end up sounding like alien outer-space music!
I just tell 'em that's what it was!


Lee \:\)
_________________________
Twitter: @Seaside_Lee

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#1019785 - 07/26/06 05:02 PM Re: Popular music is flexible
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4242
Loc: Arizona.
I'm not really "back"!, it's just the Ultram talking!!

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#1019786 - 07/26/06 08:00 PM Re: Popular music is flexible
Kawaigirl1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 989
Loc: Toronto
Hey Seaside, can I hire you to play in my house?? I thoroughly enjoyed it!! ;\)
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#1019787 - 07/26/06 08:51 PM Re: Popular music is flexible
funburger Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 1417
 Quote:
Originally posted by Seaside_Lee:
Don't worry, I took it as funny \:D

The password was "Wayne Newton"

but sexy was close enough ;\)


Lee \:\) [/b]
hahahahaha!!!! my husband got a kick out of that!!!
_________________________
If it ain't fun I ain't doin' it:)

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#1019788 - 07/26/06 08:53 PM Re: Popular music is flexible
s54mo827 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 1231
Loc: New York
Seaside -

Blue Moon bloopers 1: Still fantastic man. Your touch is amazing. I downloaded your box.net files onto my desktop and shall refer to it as a piece of inspiration.


What????? Sharon - how much and/or how many people do you garner inspiration from? Ah, funny I should ask that of myself - heck - wherever and whenever possible and from whomever is out there, they will inspire me. So from everyone and from everything... amazing..

Ah ha - I see here on Blue Moonish 2 - it's a bit more difficult to follow the tune - my ear tells me what it is only because I know ahead of time... still (Lee) very full and rich playing...

Interesting your examples: Popular music is flexible -

Cool stuff. \:D
_________________________
~Sharon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv7-qjprix4

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#1019789 - 07/27/06 06:08 AM Re: Popular music is flexible
Seaside_Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2167
Loc: Blackpool, UK
 Quote:
hahahahaha!!!! my husband got a kick out of that!!!
:D

 Quote:
can I hire you to play in my house??
Only if you promise to cook me something nice \:\)

Btw..I think I'd rather have you round playing at mine...I have just listened to your version of "Home"...and I can't tell any difference between Davids and yours...it is stunning!! \:D


Sharon: Oh yes...music is far more flexible than you realize yet...erm...its also even more than I realize yet! \:\)

regards


Lee \:\)
_________________________
Twitter: @Seaside_Lee

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#1019790 - 07/27/06 07:10 AM Re: Popular music is flexible
ShiroKuro Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3502
Loc: not in Japan anymore
Walt, I'm not sure what popular music you're thinking of, but I have to say, respectfully, that I disagree with your description of only classical music as serious music, and the implication that non-classical music is not serious. To borrow your words, I just thought some "clarification might be helpful for other beginners" that what constitutes serious music is in the ear of the beholder.

Sorry to hijack your thread Lee.
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




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#1019791 - 07/27/06 09:01 AM Re: Popular music is flexible
Seaside_Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2167
Loc: Blackpool, UK
Hey Shiro

Don't be too hard on Walt...I think I know what he meant?...I get the impression he loves the classics and that is great...many people don't like pop music...I love it. I am the opposite of Walt I suppose I really don't dig too much classical (but I can appreciate why people love it so)...different strokes for different folks...if everyone liked green apples and not red ones it would be a weird world.

So getting back to the topic of the thread which was supposed to be about how flexible and bendy popular music is (someone else can start a thread on how flexible classical music can be, if they want to? ;\) ) and that if you drop a clanger or two or lose your way (when playing for an audience) it is just best to carry on regardless.

Heres another really blooper-ful version to make everyone laugh \:D

I wonder if this version will test Maks machine thingymajig to the hilt?

Blue Moon with a heap of bloopers!!


Lee \:\)
_________________________
Twitter: @Seaside_Lee

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#1019792 - 07/27/06 09:24 AM Re: Popular music is flexible
ShiroKuro Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3502
Loc: not in Japan anymore
Lee, thanks. I don't seem to have very much "subtlty" or "gentleness" in my tool box today. I'll go back edit myself. (a little bit)
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




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#1019793 - 07/27/06 09:29 AM Re: Popular music is flexible
psychopianoman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Oklahoma
I enjoyed all of your playing. I regard all music as serious by the way, especially when it is improvised with passion. I look forward to hearing more.
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#1019794 - 07/27/06 09:38 AM Re: Popular music is flexible
Seaside_Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2167
Loc: Blackpool, UK
 Quote:
I don't seem to have very much "subtlty" or "gentleness" in my tool box today
Its probably that new hair-do Shiro
 Quote:
I regard all music as serious by the way, especially when it is improvised with passion
Psycho..I know you do ;\) but, I was just in a daft mood this morning and I was only trying to see if I could break Mak's machine \:\)

 Quote:
I look forward to hearing more.
More bloopy stuff???

BTW I also liked your second version best in the piano bar...but, the first one was really chinesey (is that a word?) and very kool


Lee \:D
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Twitter: @Seaside_Lee

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#1019795 - 07/27/06 09:47 AM Re: Popular music is flexible
rocky Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 1456
Loc: Louisville, KY
 Quote:
Originally posted by Seaside_Lee:

Heres another really blooper-ful version to make everyone laugh \:D
Umm...maybe I just have really bad hearing or something....but.....I don't hear any freakin bloopers!

:::thinkin to self....I need to find mr_super_hunky's old rusty pipe and hit Lee upside the head:::

:::thinkin to self again....yikes!...quit thinkin like that...you know you aren't a violent person::::

:::thinkin to self one more time....Lee really does play the piano very nicely:::::

\:D
_________________________
When I reach the place I'm going, I will surely know my way.

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#1019796 - 07/27/06 09:52 AM Re: Popular music is flexible
ShiroKuro Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/04
Posts: 3502
Loc: not in Japan anymore
No no, the hair is getting down tomorrow (at a very early hour!) Today I was fighting with my closets! :rolleyes:

Obviously taking myself much too seriously! \:D
_________________________
Started piano June 1999. My recordings at Box.Net:
https://app.box.com/s/j4rgyhn72uvluemg1m6u




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#1019797 - 07/27/06 09:59 AM Re: Popular music is flexible
Seaside_Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2167
Loc: Blackpool, UK
A-Ha its the closets that are to blame

Heaven help us tommorrow...yikes!


Rocky are you seriously telling me that you cannot tell that I play so many duff melody notes as it goes a-long ...you are freaking me out man?


Lee \:\)
_________________________
Twitter: @Seaside_Lee

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#1019798 - 07/27/06 10:09 AM Re: Popular music is flexible
psychopianoman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Oklahoma
Seaside, I think you hit all the wrong notes at the right time.
_________________________
pianolessonaddicts.com

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#1019799 - 07/27/06 10:16 AM Re: Popular music is flexible
Seaside_Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2167
Loc: Blackpool, UK
 Quote:
Seaside, I think you hit all the wrong notes at the right time
ROFL!!

_________________________
Twitter: @Seaside_Lee

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#1019800 - 07/27/06 10:42 AM Re: Popular music is flexible
rocky Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 1456
Loc: Louisville, KY
I just listened again and really tried to pay attention, but I seriously think it sounded very good.

Hmm...maybe that's why I don't think my playing is so bad is because I can't hear the mistakes...or maybe I just enjoy the music as a whole and my ear forgives any mistakes...I don't know.....
_________________________
When I reach the place I'm going, I will surely know my way.

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#1019801 - 07/27/06 10:54 AM Re: Popular music is flexible
Seaside_Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2167
Loc: Blackpool, UK
rocky

I'll let you in on a little secret ...as soon as a few more people have heard it ;\)

I'm surprised no-one has asked me yet?


But, maybe no-one wants to know?


regards


Lee \:\)

I'll wait 'til someone asks ;\)
_________________________
Twitter: @Seaside_Lee

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#1019802 - 07/27/06 11:09 AM Re: Popular music is flexible
markb Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 2593
Loc: Maryland
As much as calling classical music (in the broad sense of classical) "serious" music assigns a negative connotation to other types of music, the term "popular" music implies that classical music is unpopular, which is also a negative connotation.

Maybe someone here can come up with non-judgmental replacements for the terms "serious" and "popular" music.
_________________________
markb--The Count of Casio

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#1019803 - 07/27/06 11:16 AM Re: Popular music is flexible
Seaside_Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2167
Loc: Blackpool, UK
How about

red apple and green apple music?


BTW this thread isn't about what's best or anything?...sheesh


Maybe I should change the title to "Bloopers are fun!!"


That "popular" in the title seems to be being taken the wrong way? \:\(


Lee \:\)
_________________________
Twitter: @Seaside_Lee

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#1019804 - 07/27/06 11:39 AM Re: Popular music is flexible
psychopianoman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Oklahoma
Popular does not imply anything when you understand how it is used as a musical term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_music

On the other hand I have yet to find serious used as a musical definition.

Popular can imply a negative connotation when it is taken as literal as in, well, popular. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popularity

Popular has its own meaning when connected to music IMO.

I am only one person though and as there are millions of people there will be millions of views.

I think seaside lee was just wanting to show how forgiving music can be in the pop context as opposed to the classical context (I would even include New Age music like Winston, Nevue, Lanz) because if you hit wrong notes or chords it sounds bad and if it does not sound bad it is very noticable.

If you play Nevue's Overcome and hit a wrong note it sounds like a train wreck. Certain parts of Moonlight Sonata sound horrible if the wrong note is hit. The same is true for any part of music that is very melodic.

Pop music is played a bit differently. You still keep the melody note as the top note to bring it out more but you can play a triad, seventh, ninth, eleventh, or a thirteenth as long as the melody note remains on top.

Once you get like Seaside, you can hit all the wrong notes at the right time because in pop music you end up just making bigger chords by hitting the wrong notes.

This is a very easy explanation because there are some rules that need to be followed but I am only trying to convey the theory behind it.
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#1019805 - 07/27/06 11:40 AM Re: Popular music is flexible
IrishMak Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 1614
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
Well, I hate to tell you this, Lee, but I have to agree with Rocky. It just doesn't sound "bad" at all. And I can also tell you that my plug-in tells me that you are pretty solidly starting in Db and then the only other key that shows up regularly is Bb m, which is the relative minor of Db, so you are NOT going off by a whole lot. Any "mistakes" are covered very nicely with the surrounding music. I liked this one, too!
_________________________
-Mak

1889 Mason & Hamlin screwstringer upright
Kawai MP-4 digital

---------------------------
When life hands you lemons, throw them back and add some of your own. Stupid life.

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#1019806 - 07/27/06 11:56 AM Re: Popular music is flexible
Seaside_Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2167
Loc: Blackpool, UK
grrrr! that machine....LOL
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Twitter: @Seaside_Lee

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#1019807 - 07/27/06 11:59 AM Re: Popular music is flexible
Seaside_Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2167
Loc: Blackpool, UK
psycho is close to the secret, but it is even simpler and easier than that :rolleyes: .
_________________________
Twitter: @Seaside_Lee

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#1019808 - 07/27/06 12:00 PM Re: Popular music is flexible
IrishMak Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 1614
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
Ah, semantics! lol Both terms, popular and classical, have both negative and positive aspects. And neither is perfect as a description of musical genres. They are, in truth, far too broad for classification. The problem lies in the widely accepted (and often wrong, imo) opinion that "classical" music is for serious students (or listeners) who want to spend a long time studying and learing. And "popular" music is somehow easier, both to learn and to listen to. The truth probably lies somewhere in between. There are "difficult" and "accessible" pieces in all types of music. A lot depends on your own attitude and taste.

There is a side to classical music that does foster the distinction, however. And I don't mean to dis classical music at all- I enjoy a lot of it and own a fair number of recordings of what would be considered classical music. But there is a mindset that says you do not take a Bach Prelude or a Chopin mazurka and improv away on it. And that, right or wrong (and that's a whole 'nother debate!), can and does give classical music a certain attitude of "stuffiness" to some[/b]. And at the other end, there is an expectation, particularly with certain areas of popular music, that expects the performer to do what Lee has been doing with Blue Moon- mess around, change it up, never play it the same way twice. Is one Right and the other intrinscally Wrong? No, I don't think so. Is one perhaps more to my (or your or his or her) taste? Oh, yeah. And there's room for all of it.

Oh, and if I want to mess with that Bach Prelude, I just might.... I just won't play it for some people I know.... ;\) \:\)
_________________________
-Mak

1889 Mason & Hamlin screwstringer upright
Kawai MP-4 digital

---------------------------
When life hands you lemons, throw them back and add some of your own. Stupid life.

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#1019809 - 07/27/06 12:56 PM Re: Popular music is flexible
w_scott_iv@yahoo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 1120
Loc: West Virginia
Hi Shiro et al,
I hate the term 'serious music' for just the reasons you pointed out. That's why I apologize whenever I use it. But, 'serious music' is a term used to describe the works of master composers from all of musical history as opposed to just the Classical Era (which is actually just 'serious music' from @1750 - to @1825). Technically, the music of Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Stravinsky, Rachmaninoff, Bach, Scarlatti, Webern, etc. is not Classical (in that it is not from the period 1750 - 1825). I don't like the term (serious music) because it seems to imply that 'popular music' is not serious - which of course is not necessarily true (look at Billy Holiday's 'Strange Fruit'). I'm the first to point out that, in the simplest of terms, all music is for 'fun'. The greatest concert artist chose his profession because he loves to do it. Composers love to compose. We love to talk about music here w/our fellow music lovers. It all comes down to 'fun'. While the word 'fun' may imply to some a superficial sort of pleasure, I like to use the term because we all can relate to it, and it brings all of our varied musical interests and levels of proficiency onto the same plane. I love to play classical music and I love to play popular music. Best of all, I love to play w/it! I don't mean to de-value popular music in any way, but the fact is that it is designed to be easily accessible to the average person. It can be composed by people just like us, and many of the popular musicians and composers that we enjoy have very basic musical skills. The treatment of chord progressions is basic, the use of time signature is basic, melodies are catchy but not complex, the textures are not particularly diverse. That's why we like popular music. It was created so that we can understand it, play it, and even create it. Those are all good things. On the other hand, so-called serious music is created by uniquely gifted, master composers who have years of intense study. Their music is often less accessible (many of us have decided that we don't care for 'classical music' w/o realizing the depth and breadth of it) and even playing it requires training. Much of this music is written to test the limits of common practice tonality, form, texture, color, meter, etc.. In short, it is designed for a different audience than is modern popular music. And that's good too. I should point out that prior to @the 1950's, the great composers wrote both the 'Serious Music' (music of greater musical sophistication) and the 'Popular Music' (music for the average person to dance to, sing, and play) of their day. As a result, the higher levels of their music was more accessible (the public of the 1920's knew Gershwin's popular music. They knew they 'liked' Gershwin. As a result, they drew no clear delineation between his popular and his serious music and were more receptive to his entire body of work). Today's popular music creators are not 'serious' (again I apologize for the term) composers. As a result our popular music is not the same level musically as it was when great composer's were writing both the serious music and our popular music. As a result, the music that we are most familiar with today is even further removed musically from 'serious music' than in the past. Couple that w/the line we've drawn between popular song writers and 'master' composers and you arrive at the present state where many people say , 'I don't like classical music'. In short, in the past if one liked the popular music of Beethoven, he/she could say, 'I like Beethoven' and would have access to all of his work. Today we say, 'I like Motley Crue, (or Lead Zep, or James Taylor, or Van Morrison, or Madonna, or Aqualung, etc.)' and there is no higher level above their popular music. Therefore, it's easy for the average person to draw a distinction between the music they like and music that is nearly inaccessable.
I acknowledge that I'm speaking in generalities. I realize that many of the terms I've used may set up defensive reactions in some readers. My use of them is only to communicate my ideas and I don't intend them to contain any inherent negative connotations. People are individuals and have various views, varied tastes, and varied musical interests and abilities. Bacause popular music is designed to appeal to the average consumer doesn't take anything away from our enjoyment of it or from it's significance in our society. So, different strokes for different folks and most important remember - it's all about 'fun'!

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#1019810 - 07/27/06 01:16 PM Re: Popular music is flexible
Seaside_Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2167
Loc: Blackpool, UK
See...he's not all bad ;\)

Walt, I have to say though I am stunned to hear that there is something on a higher level than Madonna


Seriously I knew where you were coming from \:\)

However, I think you are closing in on funburgers longest paragraph in the history of the world ever record there ;\)


I really need to change the title of this thread to "bloopers are fun!"

its getting waaaaaaaaaay too deep!!!


Lee \:\)
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Twitter: @Seaside_Lee

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