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Joined: Apr 2007
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OP
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Hello! Im a very new to piano and just bought my keyboard. I also sing (or at least try to ) and want to eventually play and sing songs of Billy Joel, Elton John ... and also write my own songs for voice and piano. Now, I dont know if classical lessons are the best way to achieve this goal - do you suggest anything else? Any help would be appreciated!
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Joined: Jul 2006
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I think classical is always a good place to start. You'll learn good technique and all the basics. Then if you want to jump to a new style after a couple of years you'll be ready to go.
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Hey there Piano Magician. Welcome to the forums.
I agree with Househead, classical will certainly give you a solid base to build upon no matter which way you go.
But, it is not the only way, either. Many here have success with Piano Magic (seems like a nice match with your screen name), and others with Sudnow's program, as well as many other options.
I personally have chosen the "semi-classical" approach. I use Carl Humphries "The Piano Handbook" and Alfred's Adult course, and for now, I do not have a teacher.
I would suggest have a look at what's out there, find one you like, and then, go for it.
Remember to have fun.
"There is nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself." Johann Sebastian Bach/Gyro
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Hi PM and HH78 I'm not really with HouseHead on this one I'm afraid (sorry HH). I would have said if your desire is to play in the styles of Elton John and Billy Joel? then spending a few years on classical lessons wouldn't be the quickest route to get there IMHO. I for the most part don't have any desire to play classical pieces. Pop and standards are more my particular cup of tea and I've managed to do just that without ever touching a classical piece. If I were you I would be probably trying to find myself a teacher that taught popular piano music and maybe if they could also teach you how to accompany your singing (with chords) too that would be great, unless of course you want to play classical pieces too regards Lee
Twitter: @Seaside_Lee
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Joined: May 2006
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I would suggest not trying to be trained classically if you only want to learn Billy Joel and Elton John (and similar pop/standard type music). While learning classical will indeed help your technique, so will learning what you want to learn.
The most important thing for the type of music you seem to want to play is to learn basic theory and practice that theory. Here's what I mean:
1. Get a book like "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Music Theory". This will start you on learning the basics. Basic chords and progressions, inversions, scales and modes (minor and major), etc. By the way, this is good for both classical and pop music. You may not "need" to know this stuff to learn to play, but it will help tremendously. And you will understand how melodies and harmonies are created.
2. Start playing easy versions of the songs and maybe even trying to figure them out for yourself. I'm talking a basic arrangement with the left hand playing the chords and the right hand playing the melody. Or using both hands to create the harmony (the chord progression) while you sing the tune.
I think this is plenty to get you started. The reason I don't think being classically trained is necessary is because you would be more focused on learning to play the classical reportoire than taking a straight line into what you want to learn. Why not just start with the stuff that interests you. Technique can be learned either way.
I am NOT saying that you don't need a teacher. A teacher can be very helpful. In fact, there are teachers who specialize in pop/jazz training. They can teach you how to improvise and will probably take you through the basic theory course I was talking about above. Ask your local music store, and I bet they give you 10 names. Also, having a teacher is a good way to find others who are doing the same thing and perhaps getting a group or ensemble together.
" I wish you music to help with the burdens of life, and to help you release your happiness to others."
--Ludwig van Beethoven
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Joined: Mar 2007
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I am 61 years old.. I took piano lessons between age 7 to 12 years; Classical lessons. I hated it because all I wanted to play was the latest 60's pop stuff and some 40's/50's stuff too (Irving Berlin, Cole Porter etc). My music teacher frowned upon this and this is probably why I eventually gave up.. from frustration.. I did manage to learn a few things on my own.. some ragtime.. some 60's stuff.. but I never got any help.. So.. here I am starting over at age 61 and this time I will do it how I want to do it.. playing what I want to play.. So... My advice is.. take a straight line to where you want to go.. by all means do the classical stuff because it will serve you well, but keep your eye on your main objective and alway give emphasis to that..
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Joined: Nov 2005
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I don't think it matters whether you start with a classical or jazz/pop/etc teacher, as long as they are a good one. The teacher I had was awesome, he can play pretty much any style and currently is helping my brother do what you hope to acheive
If you've got a good ear on you start unsing it as soon as possible, try to work out some of the chord structures and such. If you want to play Joel and Elton style pieces then knowing how to improvise is a great skill to have.
Most of all don't give up, you seem very keen but sometimes even the keenest of us become disheartened when things go wrong. Keep going, keep positive.
Finally - If you ever get to the point when you can play the keyboard part from "Place your hands" by Reef... I'd love to know how!!!
Good luck.
"Work hard and strive to reach the power of bland"
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Joined: Dec 2004
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I have to agree with Lee and others who have said skip the classical training.
Getting classical training will give you the techniques needed to play... classical music. If you are not going to play classical music, you don't need those techniques. If you want to play pop/rock, you want to know how to play chords, you want to learn how to accompany yourself when you sing, and you want to learn a whole set of patterns that are not used in classical music.
Also, I don't agree with Performing Yak either. (Sorry, I hate to be so disagreeable!) Most classically trained teachers (who have no training or experience in popular styles) will not be able to teach you the kind of chord theory and LH patterns you'll want for pop or rock piano. And even more importantly, they won't be intimately familiar with the music you want to play, they won't have experience teaching those songs to beginners. So even the best teacher would be learning as s/he goes. Whereas if you get a teacher whose specialty is popular music, s/he will probably already have a curriculum built up that is likely to fit your needs.
Piano Magician, I don't know where you live, but if you're looking for piano lessons that focus on popular music, you might try contacting a guitar store. Guitar stores tend to specialize in popular music, and will usually have a keyboard teacher or may be able to recommend you to one.
If you want to go the self-study route, spend some time searching Amazon. I recommend looking at Hal Leonard's keyboard series. If you can't find anything good, post back here and I'll give you a list of book titles. Books that come with CDs are especially helpful for beginning and intermediate studetnts.
Play what you want to play, from the very beginning. That is the fastest and surest path to pianistic fulfillment.
Started piano June 1999. Proud owner of a Yamaha C2
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Joined: Jan 2007
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I'm sort of agreeing too ShiroKuro These days my classical work is mostly working through the Czerny book to keep my fingers in shape. And a little bach here and there. (Back is prayer at the keyboard.) I like it as a "foundation" to get where I want to go, musically, but don't think I want to spend this go-round at the piano strictly in the classical repertoire. My fingers keep whispering: "psssst! We've DONE this already!"
Inspiration is the act of pulling a chair up to the writing desk. Pramberger JP-185 (a 6'1" mahogany-red Grand)+ Glenn Gould-ish piano chair (no cushion)
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Joined: Sep 2006
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This is exactly what I'm doing at the moment (playing "country comfort" trying to sing with the crazy voice Elton has on the Tumbleweed album!). I think the most important part is learning to play chords and read music a little. Any teacher should be able to teach that, but talking to them prior to taking lessons is a good idea. I would also scoot over to musictheory.net and do the lessons there. Once you understand which notes constitute a chord and can play block chords you can experiment with different voicings to sound like Elton, and transpose the songs into keys which suit your voice. You can find the chords to pretty much all of Eltons music here. When you gain proficiency in this you can learn a lot about how to sound more like Elton by by visiting this fans website . "The Elton John Keyboard Book" and "The Billy Joel Keyboard Book" are fantastic as they contain the actual piano played by Elton and Billy on their albums. I don't follow this to the note but use it to see which hand positions they use and the general style. Beware, most pop sheet music is useless for your purposes, because it contains the melody line with the right hand and you only want to play the chords with both hands. If your just starting out then maybe most of this stuff is for down the track but after a few months of messing around with chords you'll be amazed at what you can do, keep these websites for reference, they're great. Hope that helps.
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Joined: Apr 2007
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OP
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Thx everybody for your income. Ill check the sites and books mentioned. Im happy to hear that I neednt to do years of classical lessons before playing what I really want. Ill also start searching right away for a teacher that teaches this kind of musix. thx again!
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