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#1023352 - 08/02/04 06:31 PM SCALE DEGREES -- You Can't Get One at Your Local College! (I)
Matt G. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 3789
Loc: Plainfield, IL
_________________________
Sacred cows make the best hamburger. - Clemens

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#1023353 - 08/02/04 06:39 PM Re: SCALE DEGREES -- You Can't Get One at Your Local College! (I)
RKVS1 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/01
Posts: 3192
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
YEA!!!
The NEW THEORY LESSONS are HERE!
The NEW THEORY LESSONS are HERE!
The NEW THEORY LESSONS are HERE!

And the NEW PHONE BOOKS[/b] just got here a couple of DAYS ago!!

Quick! What key is the white version of "Count Your Blessings" in????
4/4 or waltz? \:D

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#1023354 - 08/02/04 06:51 PM Re: SCALE DEGREES -- You Can't Get One at Your Local College! (I)
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
I've been on pins all day.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, ├Ľun (apple in Estonian)

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#1023355 - 08/03/04 05:14 PM Re: SCALE DEGREES -- You Can't Get One at Your Local College! (I)
Liesle Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/25/04
Posts: 192
Loc: Southern Illinois
That is an incredible gardening tip.. I have ornamental Japanese maple that thinks it is a big boy. It has threatened the mailbox and the pathway to the door. Brilliant idea. I'll fix that plant. \:\)
_________________________
Liesle

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#1023356 - 08/04/04 03:18 PM Re: SCALE DEGREES -- You Can't Get One at Your Local College! (I)
Matt G. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 3789
Loc: Plainfield, IL
Hmmm.... was this lesson so effortlessly understandable that there are no questions, or have you all been struck dumb with confusion?
_________________________
Sacred cows make the best hamburger. - Clemens

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#1023357 - 08/04/04 03:52 PM Re: SCALE DEGREES -- You Can't Get One at Your Local College! (I)
RKVS1 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/01
Posts: 3192
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
I'm just waiting for Plays88 to get up and go to the bathroom so I can check my answers. \:D

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#1023358 - 08/05/04 12:39 AM Re: SCALE DEGREES -- You Can't Get One at Your Local College! (I)
RKVS1 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/01
Posts: 3192
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
iiviIIViivVIIIviiiiviidimIVivIII+viidi
(I'm on the new low-delimiter diet.) :rolleyes:

If Arabic numbers are used despite the administration's recent pleas for a boycott, and minors are handled by dividing by 2 (i.e. iii = 3minor =1.5) the total answer is 41.5

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#1023359 - 08/05/04 04:16 AM Re: SCALE DEGREES -- You Can't Get One at Your Local College! (I)
LudwigVanBee Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/04
Posts: 83
Loc: USA
 Quote:
The triad built on the tonic is a Major triad, so we designate it as I
The triad built on the supertonic is minor, so we designate it as ii
The triad built on the mediant is minor, so we designate it as iii
The triad built on the subdominant is Major, so we designate it as IV
The triad built on the dominant is Major, so we designate it as V
The triad built on the submediant is minor, so we designate it as vi
The triad built on the leading tone is diminished, so we designate it as vii
Matt, thanks for this continuing lesson. I'm copying and putting them together for later printout. I just had time to look closely at this one and got confused at the above quote. How do you know that the triad built on the supertonic is minor? What is it in the notes/scale that tells you it is a minor chord? Is there a pattern here? And same for each subsequent statement. Was this covered in a previous lesson?
_________________________
_ _ ___________________________ _ _
"There are no shortcuts to anything worth doing." Beverly Sills

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#1023360 - 08/05/04 05:53 AM Re: SCALE DEGREES -- You Can't Get One at Your Local College! (I)
Neus A. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/30/04
Posts: 83
Loc: Spain

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#1023361 - 08/05/04 05:59 AM Re: SCALE DEGREES -- You Can't Get One at Your Local College! (I)
Neus A. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/30/04
Posts: 83
Loc: Spain
 Quote:
Originally posted by Neus A.:
Hi Matt,

Before I leave for my summer holiday, I wish to thank you for your lessons. I follow them and do the exercises weekly.

I learnt all this theory more than 20 years ago. It was buried somewhere deep into my memory. With each of your lessons some lost concept comes back.

By the way, I understood the lesson. I'll check the answers tomorrow. But I'll have to find a computer for the next lesson on Monday.

Thanks again. [/b]

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#1023362 - 08/05/04 09:23 AM Re: SCALE DEGREES -- You Can't Get One at Your Local College! (I)
Matt G. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 3789
Loc: Plainfield, IL
 Quote:
Originally posted by LudwigVanBee:
Matt, thanks for this continuing lesson. I'm copying and putting them together for later printout. I just had time to look closely at this one and got confused at the above quote. How do you know that the triad built on the supertonic is minor? What is it in the notes/scale that tells you it is a minor chord? Is there a pattern here? And same for each subsequent statement. Was this covered in a previous lesson? [/b]
These are all very good questions, LVB. This has not been covered in any previous lesson, so don't feel like you missed something. Truth be told, the questions you raise are the bases for two other lessons, one about intervals and another on building triads. At this point, without getting into too much detail, here's the scoop. When we define triads as stacks of thirds, and there being two types of thirds (Major and minor), we can come up with four different types of triads when assembled (from lowest note to highest) thusly:

Major 3rd + minor 3rd = Major triad
minor 3rd + Major 3rd = minor triad
Major 3rd + Major 3rd = Augmented triad
minor 3rd + minor 3rd = diminished triad

These definitions are dependent on understanding the definitions of intervals. We will[/b] cover intervals shortly. Unfortunately for some, these lessons aren't being presented in any sort of order (other than random!).
_________________________
Sacred cows make the best hamburger. - Clemens

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#1023363 - 08/05/04 06:54 PM Re: SCALE DEGREES -- You Can't Get One at Your Local College! (I)
LudwigVanBee Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/04
Posts: 83
Loc: USA
Thanks Matt. This clarifies things somewhat but I will be looking for an explanation as to why does a Major 3rd + minor 3rd = Major triad and why does
minor 3rd + Major 3rd = minor triad? Thanks for your time and effort in this complex endeavor.
_________________________
_ _ ___________________________ _ _
"There are no shortcuts to anything worth doing." Beverly Sills

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#1023364 - 08/06/04 07:52 AM Re: SCALE DEGREES -- You Can't Get One at Your Local College! (I)
Matt G. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 3789
Loc: Plainfield, IL
Alrighty, then, boys and girls, put down your pencils and pass your work to the person to your left....

Let's check our answers to this week's exercises:

#1. ii/supertonic -- vi/submediant -- I/tonic -- IV/subdominant

#2. i/tonic -- iv/subdominant -- VI/submediant -- III/mediant

#3. vi/submediant -- iii/mediant -- vii░/leading tone -- IV/subdominant

#4. iv/subdominant -- III+/mediant -- vii░/leading tone -- i/tonic[/b]

Now, add up the number of correct answers, multiply that by six, then add 4, and put the result at the top of the page and circle it. Pass it back to your right.... \:D
_________________________
Sacred cows make the best hamburger. - Clemens

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#1023365 - 08/06/04 08:55 AM Re: SCALE DEGREES -- You Can't Get One at Your Local College! (I)
Axtremus Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 6150
 Quote:
Originally posted by LudwigVanBee:
Thanks Matt. This clarifies things somewhat but I will be looking for an explanation as to why does a Major 3rd + minor 3rd = Major triad and why does
minor 3rd + Major 3rd = minor triad? Thanks for your time and effort in this complex endeavor. [/b]
"Major" and "minor" are just names and labels we put on musical constructs so we can talk/write about them in words.

Here's another way to look at "major" vs. "minor" triads:

Take the first 5 notes of a major scale, say, C major: {C, D, E, F, G}. If you build a {C, E, G} triad, it fits right on a MAJOR scale (it also happens to be a minor 3rd stacked on a major 3rd). You might as well label it a MAJOR triad.

Now take the first 5 notes of a minor scale, say, C minor: {C, D, E-flat, F, G}. If you build a {C, E-flat, G} triad, it fits right on the MINOR scale (it also happens to be a minor 3rd stacked on a major 3rd). You might as well label it a MINOR triad.

Instead of beling called "major triad" and "minor triad," they could have easily been labeled "3+4" triad and "4+3" triad (counting relative half-steps increments), or labeled "4,7" triad and "3,7" triad (counting absolute half-steps from the root), or "minor-3rd on major-3rd" triad and "major-3rd on minor-3rd" triad, and they would all amount to the same thing.

The "Major Triad" and "Minor Triad" labels stuck, I suppose, because they relate very nicely to the Major and Minor scale designations.

Putting labels on musical constructs is one thing, internalizing the constructs is another. For those with free time on their hands, I'd suggest playing many major and minor triads on the piano and listen to the tonal differences these different constructs create -- the objective would be to get to a point where, upon hearing either a major or minor triad, you instinctively know it's major or minor without having to think whether its "major 3rd on minor 3rd" or "minor 3rd on major 3rd, or resorting to counting half-steps. ;\)

(MattG -- I really admire your dedication and generosity to continuously share your knowledge in music theory, it really takes time and effort. )
_________________________
www.PianoRecital.org -- my piano recordings

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#1023366 - 08/06/04 09:32 AM Re: SCALE DEGREES -- You Can't Get One at Your Local College! (I)
RKVS1 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/01
Posts: 3192
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
Matt, with only apple and liesle here there really IS no one to my left. ... and the guy that just posted is an axtremus.

\:\)
(I liked your GeorgeWBush poem, apple.)

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#1023367 - 08/06/04 09:56 AM Re: SCALE DEGREES -- You Can't Get One at Your Local College! (I)
Matt G. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 3789
Loc: Plainfield, IL
Those of you with nobody to your left should pass your work to the instructor, who will then hand it to the person furthest to the right (whoever that may be). \:D

(And Ax, thanks for the assist with the triads question. I have my own mnemonic for triad types that I think makes sense, so we'll see how well it goes over once we get there! Really, this doesn't take much of my time, and I'm glad someone besides just me is getting their money's worth from my education!)
_________________________
Sacred cows make the best hamburger. - Clemens

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#1023368 - 08/06/04 09:57 AM Re: SCALE DEGREES -- You Can't Get One at Your Local College! (I)
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
I am so far behind. I have a good excuse tho.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, ├Ľun (apple in Estonian)

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#1023369 - 08/06/04 10:00 AM Re: SCALE DEGREES -- You Can't Get One at Your Local College! (I)
RKVS1 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/01
Posts: 3192
Loc: Topeka, Kansas
Your knees hurting again, apple? ;\)


(in reference to recently announced practice discipline)

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#1023370 - 08/06/04 10:24 AM Re: SCALE DEGREES -- You Can't Get One at Your Local College! (I)
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
yes, but not for the reason you think.

I've been mowing all the grass in Kansas it seems. It growing like gangbusters here. Even with two mowers (a rider and a walker) I can't keep up.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, ├Ľun (apple in Estonian)

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#1023371 - 08/06/04 01:19 PM Re: SCALE DEGREES -- You Can't Get One at Your Local College! (I)
cathys Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/10/03
Posts: 917
Loc: Virginia
Wow - I think I got most of them right
88% Is that a "B" - Oh yeah no grades

I think I just had kind of brain lag on a couple (brain writes vi but sees 4)

Thanks again Matt!!!!

Cathy

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#1023372 - 08/07/04 06:27 AM Re: SCALE DEGREES -- You Can't Get One at Your Local College! (I)
Matt G. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 3789
Loc: Plainfield, IL
 Quote:
Originally posted by cathys:
(brain writes vi but sees 4)[/b]
Cathy, if you only knew how many times I have had to go back and correct what I'd written for the exact same reason! Somehow my brain thinks IV and VI are the same thing. And I'm not even lysdexic! \:D
_________________________
Sacred cows make the best hamburger. - Clemens

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