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Hello friends

It's been a while since I popped my head in here but alas as my name goes I am a crazy mom with a crazy schedule...

Anyway...for the past couple weeks I have been working on a new piece. It is one of the Chopin valses (Valse in A minor op. Posthume). And one measure, ONE MEASURE is totally kicking my behind: I can't seem to get it!!! measure # 21 is right now my nemesis, I mean I got the rest of the piece in a couple days but I am stubbling on 21. I tried playing it Hands Separated and it somehow works when I do that but then disater strikes when I try to play both hands together. Grrrrrr This evening I spent a whole hour just playing measure 21 HS, almost giving myself Carpal tunnel, and do you think it helped? nope. nada.Zilch. It is turning into an obsession....

Hi there.

Did you try sleeping on it?

Whenever I am stuck, I leave it for the day, and return the next. Usually, my performance improves over that period.

Crazy-mom, hi. have you tried playing hands together slooooooowly?? also, counting.... could be you arent fingering it right?? could be a number of problems, and its hard to really say what it is, i think you ought to take a break from it for a few days, then think about what is tripping you up, is it the rhythm, your fingers not moving right, maybe try listening to a recording while following the music to make something click for you?? sorry i cant be of much help.

Yup,

Getting your .... kicked by a song is good every now and then....I know the feeling well.


Remedy.... looks like CK70 and Funburger covered it pretty well, particularly the "sleep on it and slow it down a bit".

Although you are way ahead of me, I know the butt kicked feeling very well. I agree that sleeping on it helps, as well as going back to it at a slower pace and really thinking about what is tripping you up. Hang in there - you will conquer it (only to get your butt kicked by the next one).

Is it the triplet 8th notes followed by 5 16th notes (quintuplets) that is giving you the problem, or trying to do the arpeggios legato?

Some other suggestions:
Add in a metronome hands together.

Maybe blocking the arpeggios so that you get the jumps solid. Try both hands together and separate with this.

The best edition I have of this piece shows it fingered 12312312.

Try letting the pedal do the legato for you. With arpeggios over three octaves speed and pedal are the only things that will give you a legato sound.

You're not going to find a way to really count triplets followed by quintuplets. With the quintuplets, I think you just want to get them as even as possible.

Have you found any recordings to see how someone else plays this measure? It is possible that even the professionals take some liberty with the timing here.

Good luck and we will be waiting for a recording in the next recital.

Rich

CM... for a passage like that I will take the right hand and just separate the beats. Play over and over. Then play all three "beats" right hand alone while counting out loud. Just do it over and over. You have probably already done this but I find that it's the countless repetitions that "train" my fingers giving them the muscle memory they need. Then I put in the left hand and at first isolate each beat not worrying so much about smoothness. Do that over and over until slowly they come together and you can play it to the beat. For me, with passages like that (3 against 2 or 5 against 2 or whatever) there is just no other way. This way I also usually end up memorizing the passage which is a help in itself.

But no matter what you end up doing you will end up "getting it" and will wonder why it gave you such a hard time.

All great suggestions but ya know, there is nothing wrong with simply taking a lighter and torching the score to crumbs!.

A paper shredder work equally well as does crumbling it up and flushing it!.

You may want to make a copy of your piece beforehand however and once the sweet revenge has taken place, you will feel much more relaxed and comfortable at which time I would suggest re-reading the comments above .

I'm just here to offer helpful suggestions, that's all!.

When this happens to me, my teacher stops me and says...OK. let's see WHY you are finding this particular section difficult. We'll then double check the fingering (as it is often the problem) and hand movement - he's really big on rotation. Figuring out why you are stuck is most important to avoid just cementing the mistakes.

hi crazy mom,

When that happens to me, I do the same thing. Play it for 10 minutes over and over again. Then I leave it alone and it works itself out the next day.

It's funny because I'll be saying the same thing "I played it a million times today why am I having the same difficulty", so I'll leave it alone and the next day it's like a miracle.

Thanks everyone for the great advice!

Coolkid, Funburger, Rerun,Mom3gram, Oxfordgal :I
I have been "leaving it alone" since Saturday and just listening to the pros playing it. Maybe my muse will come...I am listening to recording by Alexandre Tharaud, who typically plays the Valses a little faster than others. He goes over that part really quickly. I think that if everything else fails I will fib over that part and just play it with my left foot...

Dragonplayer, I think you nailed it. I am having problems with the tempo with the triplet followed by the quintuplet. And of course when you add the left hand which is supposed to keep the tempo and it is like my left and right brain all of a sudden cannot talk to each other anymore... And then doing the whole thing legato! I have small chunky hands, it is physically impossible! Sustain pedal was invented for people like me I think LOL! I will try the "jumping solid' for the arpeggio and see if it will make a difference.

Peyton, I think that the trouble that I am having is that I am unable to break it down. I mean yes, mathematically my brain can comprehend it, but my hand is not getting it. Am I making sense here?

IPBAT ( I love that name BTW, it is the story of my life..) your suggestion is extremely helpful, not just with this piece but with everything else.

Superhunky! You always have the best of advice! and you know the beauty of it is that the Lighter-Shredder technique can be applied to many other things in life... :p this gave me a good laugh though so thanks...

Hey Dee,

I wonder if you're so uptight about it, that no matter what you do, you won't be able to get it.

Have you tried saying "ok whatever I'm going to play that measure and if it comes out it comes out"

Sometimes according to what I've read, if you abandon the idea of playing it perfectly and just say "i'm going to play it with mistakes and fail" it actually comes out right because you gave yourself permission to fail.

I have a problem with songs kicking my mouth instead of my behind. If i try too hard on a piece that is somewhat fast ill suddenly feel a pain in my mouth and realize my molars are biting down hard on the sides of my tongue. Ow!
Then ill say "i need to relax", or with a wounded tongue, "I weed to wewax" lol

How Ironic, I was assigned this piece next in addition to a couple more. Looking forward to it. It's a beautiful piece