Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#1028690 - 10/19/08 01:21 PM Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
Oxfords Gal Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 1553
Loc: Jacksonville, Florida
My teacher noticed that sometimes[/b] I bend my finger phalanges slightly but I don't know why I do it since I do play with curved hands.

Is it too much pressure?

I'm curious to know who doesn't bend their distal or intermediate phalange when playing and how we can keep them from bending even when we're playing with curved hands.

thanks
_________________________
Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear, Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair.>>> Herman Munster

Top
(ads P/S)
Petrof Pianos

piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1028691 - 10/19/08 01:42 PM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Grip the keys.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


Top
#1028692 - 10/19/08 03:56 PM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3539
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Oxfords Gal:

I'm curious to know who doesn't bend their distal or intermediate phalange when playing and how we can keep them from bending even when we're playing with curved hands.

thanks [/b]
OG - I guess I must have missed this lesson in my self-instructional pedagogical indoctrination, but why is a "bending phalange" considered a "problem" at all?

Just when I thought I had rid my mind of all extraneous and seemingly inconsequential pianistic considerations and could finally relax and enjoy simply playing and making music, now something else to worry about .

This is something akin to a .400 hitter in baseball suddenly starting to worry and fret about how and where his hands are placed on the bat! :p

Regards, JF
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

As good at piano as I am at golf - very high handicap!

Top
#1028693 - 10/19/08 05:07 PM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
ddh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 458
Loc: Abitibi
Oxford gal, the master of "shortissimo" answers (KBK) is right again.

When You grip the keys, You are using the large and powerful muscle at the base of the fingers and the finger stays naturally arched (bone alignment).

If You bend the phalanges, You are using the tendon in the arm to move the fingers. It is weaker, gives less control and may lead to tendonitis if overused.

But I guess we all do it once in a while.

Cheers
_________________________
Daniel (Pramberger JP 208B)


Top
#1028694 - 10/19/08 07:48 PM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
Roger Ransom Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 1227
Loc: SouthWest Michigan
OK, at the risk of appearing ignorant (a familiar feeling by the way), what the heck is a phalange and how do I know if it's bent?
_________________________
Laugh More
Yamaha G7 - Roland FP7

Top
#1028695 - 10/19/08 08:25 PM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11177
Loc: Canada
Your phalanges are the bones of your fingers. Some people will allow the joint between the fingernail "phalange" and the next bone to collapse so that the fingernail part of the finger falls inward under pressure.

Top
#1028696 - 10/19/08 08:53 PM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

Top
#1028697 - 10/20/08 01:15 AM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Sorry ddh but gripping happens using the flexors -- both short (attached to middle phalange) and long (attached to nail phalange). If your nail joint breaks in then you're failing to utilize the long flexors. It's usually a coordination problem. Here's a thread I started in January: http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/2/16913.html#000000
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


Top
#1028698 - 10/20/08 07:25 AM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3539
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
Is there professional therapy (or at least a support group) available for this so-called "problem" - this "fatal flaw" - not for bending phalanges that is, but for worrying about them :rolleyes:

In the incredibly complex biomechanical-psycological process of piano study/performance isn't there already more than enough to worry about?

What next - how suntanning effects the weight of your hands and their subsequent action on the keys?

Regards, JF

P.S. the only straight, stiff phalanges I've seen lately was from a motorist suffering from advanced road rage.
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

As good at piano as I am at golf - very high handicap!

Top
#1028699 - 10/20/08 07:46 AM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
Oxfords Gal Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 1553
Loc: Jacksonville, Florida
Thanks for the feedback all.

Actually JF, that particular bending of the phalanges is mentioned and pictured in plenty of method books. I've seen it I just never thought I did it and I just saw it pictured in one of my books this weekend as I was thumbing through.

I'll look this evening and post a picture to get the idea.

I wouldn't lose sleep over it though, I know I'm not but it's good to know ways to stop doing it if it improves playing or comfort for those who want to try.
_________________________
Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear, Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair.>>> Herman Munster

Top
#1028700 - 10/20/08 08:17 AM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
LaValse Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 1224
Loc: Mumbles, Wales
I teach a friend of mine and with her long skinny fingers she tended to do that at first. I have no evidence, but to me it looked like it it would cause much pain later if left...
_________________________
http://uk.youtube.com/user/sailwavedev

Top
#1028701 - 10/20/08 08:23 AM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11177
Loc: Canada
This ocarina player has the bendiest phalanges in the direction that we do not want to have on piano, but allows him to play his instrument. I couldn't make my fingers do that if I tried. It does show a good example of what's being talked about I think. Ocarina player

Top
#1028702 - 10/20/08 08:37 AM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
Debbie57 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 258
Loc: Kansas
Not to make light of the OP's question at all, but John Frank you have made my day! Your responses were just what I needed to get a great big grin going...right before work. Alas, all I worry about right now is hitting progressive octave stretches without slowing the piece down to a crawl.
_________________________
A Hero is one who hangs on one minute longer. Author: Unknown

Top
#1028703 - 10/20/08 11:48 AM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
Triryche Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 1451
Loc: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
The only time I bend them, which I know of, is when I am playing with flat fingers. I know it probably isn’t proper technique, but there are times when I find myself doing this unconsciously as a result of the emotion of the piece. But then it is not just the first joint, but my entire finger arching as I slide it onto and off the key.

I know this is a common problem amongst beginning guitar players before their finger/fret board hand builds adequate strength.

Top
#1028704 - 10/20/08 12:06 PM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
One of the goals in piano playing is to have a sense that the sound sparkles from the finger pads. Breaking in the joint takes 1/60th of a second (Ortmann) - so you just get a phut. Using flat fingers for some of the 19th century repertoire is perfectly OK.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


Top
#1028705 - 10/20/08 12:09 PM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11177
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
...so you just get a phut.
I am being utterly sincere if I say this is the best and most enlightening explanation I have seen all year. \:D "sparkles from the fingerpads" also does the trick for me.

Top
#1028706 - 10/20/08 12:30 PM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
Oxfords Gal Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 1553
Loc: Jacksonville, Florida
Me too I agree. I want my music to sound like it sparkles from my fingerpads. \:D \:D
_________________________
Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear, Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair.>>> Herman Munster

Top
#1028707 - 10/20/08 12:41 PM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
Triryche Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 1451
Loc: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
 Quote:
Originally posted by keyboardklutz:
... - so you just get a phut. [/b]
What do you mean by this?

Top
#1028708 - 10/20/08 12:54 PM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
Oxfords Gal Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 1553
Loc: Jacksonville, Florida
I think it means kind of like a "plunk" or "thud" as opposed to a sparkle.

I don't know if that's what it means but that's what I got out of it.

Some people play the piano and it sounds as if their fingers just glide and ripple on the keyboard.

Others sound plunkety plunk like a phut or a horse walking on cobblestones. teee heee

I'm laughing right now because a phut sounds too much like....... well nevermind. ha ha
_________________________
Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear, Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair.>>> Herman Munster

Top
#1028709 - 10/20/08 01:02 PM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
Triryche Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 1451
Loc: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
OK, that's kinda what I thought, then I thought maybe there was more, I guess I think too much sometimes.

Top
#1028710 - 10/20/08 01:13 PM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
I used to see it when my teacher played. She had such grace of movement that the sounds seemed to just flash from her finger tips. It always mesmerized me.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


Top
#1028711 - 10/20/08 01:26 PM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11177
Loc: Canada
Perhaps we should translate all the erudite knowledge into phuts, spluts, swooshes and sparkles and glides - then we might get somewhere. Nothing like being there, though, seeing, hearing, and having the ivories (plastics) under the fingers, sound in the ears.

Top
#1028712 - 10/20/08 02:26 PM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
Kymber Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/25/08
Posts: 1348
Loc: MA
If you keep saying the word phalange over and over again it starts to sound weird- Phalange! I think Pheobe used to say it on friends and when I read it I heard her voice in my head-Phalange. I know people who could just bend the tops of their fingers at the-Phalange keeping the rest of the finger straight. I can't do that. I think its similar to being double jointed or rolling your tongue or wiggling your ears. How many people are trying to wiggle their ears right now? Phalange!
_________________________
“The doubters said, "Man cannot fly," The doers said, "Maybe, but we'll try,"
And finally soared in the morning glow while non-believers watched from below.”
― Bruce Lee

Top
#1028713 - 10/20/08 02:38 PM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11177
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
Phalange!
Phut!
..... Sparkle!

Top
#1028714 - 10/21/08 12:59 PM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3539
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by keystring:
 Quote:
Phalange!
Phut!
..... Sparkle!
[/b]
I think that pretty much says it all - well stated keystring - very profound! :p

Regards, JF
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

As good at piano as I am at golf - very high handicap!

Top
#1028715 - 10/21/08 01:33 PM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11177
Loc: Canada
\:\) In a sense the phut and sparkle are profound. There is no way that the essence of playing can be expressed in diagrams, statistics, and explanations. Sometimes "phut vs. sparkle" says a lot more. So much for the human advantage of language. I'd rather watch, listen, and play.

Top
#1028716 - 10/21/08 03:02 PM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3539
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
keystring - you're starting to make sense - should I be worried about my mental state? ;\)

Regards, JF

P.S. first there was the "ying and yang" of it and now we have the "phut and sparkle" - the essence of art to a new level!
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

As good at piano as I am at golf - very high handicap!

Top
#1028717 - 10/24/08 06:02 AM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
Oxfords Gal Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 1553
Loc: Jacksonville, Florida
I caught my teacher "Phalangering" slightly \:D

I finally got to scan a page of it being demonstrated.

_________________________
Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear, Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair.>>> Herman Munster

Top
#1028718 - 10/24/08 07:34 AM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3539
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
OG - that bottom photo is really nasty - obviously an advanced, incurable case of BPS (Bent Phalanges Syndrome) - does anyone really do that? You'd almost have to try to do that!

Regards, JF
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

As good at piano as I am at golf - very high handicap!

Top
#1028719 - 10/24/08 08:28 AM Re: Truthfully who doesn't bend their phalanges?
DragonPianoPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 2368
Loc: Denver, CO
If anyone actually experiences bent phalanges, I would recommend that the proceed to the emergency room post haste. I would not like anyone on this forum to have bent or broken bones. JK
_________________________

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Download & Print Sheet Music Instantly
sheet music search
sheet music search

sheet music search
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
164 registered (accordeur, Adypiano, A Guy, 48 invisible), 1728 Guests and 25 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
74223 Members
42 Forums
153548 Topics
2250323 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Spinoff: What do we think of "technique seminars"?
by TwoSnowflakes
04/18/14 02:46 PM
Questions about Chopin Nocturne Op. 27 No. 2 in D Flat Minor
by noobpianist90
04/18/14 01:51 PM
A new performance experience... Need advice.
by Svenno
04/18/14 01:46 PM
Thoughts on the Yamaha P-255
by voxpops
04/18/14 01:17 PM
Piano Learning Myths...
by evamar
04/18/14 12:32 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission