Of course, at that time Germany wasn't exactly the engineering and industrial powerhouse that we know today. It was hardly even a country

With all due respect to its German roots, Steinway & Sons is a thoroughly American success story. As for its pianos, they were actually shaped through early and intense competition with names like Chickering and Mason & Hamlin - not Bosendorfer or Bechstein.

Paulwbenn:
at that time Germany wasn't exactly the engineering and industrial powerhouse that we know today. It was hardly even a country

Indeed. It was still merely a Confederation of 40 odd entities at the time old Heinrich climbed aboard the boat for the New World... though we all know the results a few generations later when it did become united and industrialised... twice in fact

Anyway, it's time to eat here in Yurrup, so I think I might tuck into a pizza... hold on, I hear that you have them over there too, so surely that's another fine traditional American product as well? I suppose especially so if the Italian who made it emigrated after the age of fifty...buon appetito!

Michael B.

"changed his name to a more anglo-sounding one and founded his new piano company in New York."

Thats correct. In other words he became an American and started an American Company.

LJC:
In other words he became an American and started an American Company.

"Despite" having been German for the previous 54 years? . I could start calling myself Michel/Mikaël, and even take the passport, but it wouldn't really make me Swiss. If I started a company e.g. blending and making tea, if that was the professional and skill I had practiced in England beforehand, it wouldn't make it a Swiss tea company either.

Of course, I am well aware that the United States (perhaps more than many other countries) is a nation of relatively recent immigrants and a that the ideal of an overarching American national identity has developed (and/or been imposed) for many socio-economic and political reasons. It is fun occasionally to tease LeftPonders about such things, though some display more (or less) of a sense of humo(u)r than others

Michael B. (also in an immigrant!)

The English like few things better than baiting Americans about history. Disgraceful. The English sardonic or dry humour is often not grasped or appreciated by our friends across the pond. And double standards abound.

At present I am involved in a corporate transaction with some American gentlemen who are seeking to invest in a controlling share in a little business in Europe.

I had dinner with six of them just before Christmas and we were talking about ancestry. Each of the six was passionate about his European origins. Three claimed Irish ancestry. They were the ones who liked potatoes. Two claimed Italian ancestry. They were the ones who liked pasta. The sixth claimed English descent and he was the one with a sense of humour.

Had one of them had German forbears, I am sure he would have agreed with us that Steinways are in fact German pianos through and through. With maybe a few recent (i.e. 100 years ago) US touches here and there.

With kind regards

Adrian

For a complete list of things American, take a listen to the song, "America, F*** Yeah from the American movie Team America.

Included are such American staples as sushi and Taco Bell. (Steinways are not included). Check out the entire list and don't you forget it!

Steinways are American pianos.

So there!

Do you mean ALL Steinways or just NY Steinways?

I mean all Steinways. Steinway is an American company that builds some pianos in their factory in Germany.

I have yet to hear someone refer to a Camry as anything other than a Japanese car. This, despite the fact that every Camry you see on the road in the US and Canada is built in Kentucky.

Works both ways.

There you go.

Sadly Starting Over you are deluding yourself.

And it is just as well for Steinway. If people in Europe thought these things were, horror of horrors, American (we in Europe know just how truly dreadful American cars are - great in a straight line, briefly, but hopeless around corners) - Steinway would be lucky to sell any pianos over here at all.

A Camry, on the other hand, is definitely American. No question about that. Honestly, how could anyone doubt it. Have you driven one?

Kind regards

Adrian

Is there a problem here?
There are American Steinways, and there are German Steinways.
The original Steinweg family were Germans who moved to the States.
Hamburg Steinways and New York Steinways are very different in the ways they sound.

Well AJB, I guess it's lucky for Steinway that Europeans don't know then.

Btw, I trust you know a Camry is a Toyota. Just checking. And yes, I have driven one and it's a pretty good car actually. I think it's still the best selling mid-size sedan in the US. My wife had one before trading it for her Subaru, another Japanese car. It was built in Indiana.

As for the Hamburg Steinways being so different, I think that's a bit overdone. They look like the same piano to me other than the finish and I don't hear much of a difference; they're both wonderful (yeah, I know Renner etc.). Two NY Bs can be as different from each other as from a Hamburg B.

Adrian,
I have enjoyed reading much of this. I understand that your university is going to chose between these two pianos. However you have asked for the issues that others see. As I understand it the Steinway is the design that was developed about 100 years ago. Steinway in the late 1800s collected the best ideas from around Europe and the US and came up with was was often thought to be the best designs in the world. The Steinway D was the most acclaimed piano in the world. But my understanding is that it has remained the same for the last 100 years. Meanwhile others have continued to work to improve pianos. Especially in the last few decades the modern science of piano engineering has been able to create better pianos. The reason you have been so impressed with Steingraeber and Sons, as I have, is that they have really worked with modern science and engineering to developer better pianos. In the US, Mason and Hamlin has also developed pianos which are now better than the wonderful pianos they made 100 years ago. It is also my understanding that Fazioli has also been able to develop and design better pianos now than old designs. Even Yamaha keeps working to design better pianos. Bosendorfer and Bechstein today are better sounding pianos than 40 years ago because they have worked at improving their designs while Steinway proudly keeps making the same old designs thinking that they cannot be improved upon.

Truly a big issue for your University to consider is do they want a new 100 year old designed piano or the best that modern piano designers and builders can create. Ask your committee in what areas of their lives do they prefer 100 year old designs. A piano is a very complex music machine which deserves to be the best that modern designers can create.

It is my understanding that Pleyel hired Steingraeber to design them new concert grands which they believe will be the best in the world. They displayed the prototype last spring. (I do not know the details and if they are now for sale.) However, it is exciting to realize that better pianos can be made and are being made and the world does not have to live with 100 year old designs. Steinways Ds are wonderful to play and to listen to, but they are not the end all, be all.

Of course my creations and opinions are...

--

If I started a company e.g. blending and making tea, if that was the professional and skill I had practiced in England beforehand, it wouldn't make it a Swiss tea company either.

It would if it was incorporated in there.

If I started a company e.g. blending and making tea, if that was the professional and skill I had practiced in England beforehand, it wouldn't make it a Swiss tea company either.
It would if were incorporated there despite its English heritage.

American cars are - great in a straight line, briefly, but hopeless around corners) -

I guess you never drove a Corvette. I remember people saying that if you bought a Jaguar you had to put a new room on your house for your mechanic. Fortuantely they are much improved now, except if you have to drive in the snow.

I also remember the British motorcycles like the BSA. They were alot of fun if you could get them to start. The Triumph's were better, another fun bike but they leaked oil all over the place. Plus they had the shift and the rear brake on the wrong side. The Norton was lot of fun too. You just had to let the car in front get a hundred yards ahead before starting off the light because if you didnt stand on it off the line it stalled.

BTW- I have a German heritage and Steinway is still American though the Hamburg is less so.

It doesn't matter. There are no corners in North America. Our roads are all perfectly straight.

hey buddy you from toronto too? lol I'm just around the "corner"

but what's this thread about? Didn't the people get the Steinway?

Good one.
Yes, I am and they did buy the Steinway.

I'd have to read back through the thread to see exactly how we got this far into the weeds. I think it was something about the War, then Paulwbenn called a Steinway an American piano.

He was correct of course... :p

Oops, I think I did get this off track somehow. Glad to see that we've finally settled the Steinway issue though

LJC:
It would if were incorporated there despite its English heritage.[/b]

Aha, herein lies the problem. How would you parse the phrase "Swiss tea company?"

Is it:

(1) a Swiss-located company (owned and run by a recent immigrant of English, i.e. non-Swiss origin) that blends and sells (arguably English, given the heritage and methods of the owner) tea,

or is it:

(2) a Swiss company that makes Swiss tea[1]?

I think this could be yet another case of the British and Americans being divided by a common language

Michael B.
[1] Not that such a thing exists, obviously

I doubt if a Swiss tea company would do very well.

In my experience, the Swiss are fond of coffee.

I am Swiss - and I drink tea and coffee (not simultaneously of course)

And just to warm up the cold coffee --> Steinways are definitely not American.

Michael B. You can parse it anyway you want if its your company.

LJC:
You can parse it anyway you want if its your company.[/b]

Indeed. Though it wouldn't change the tea, obviously .

Anyway, methinks you doth protest too much for its American-ess, perhaps because of (or indeed 'despite') having chosen a Hamburg (and not a NY) D?

-Michael B.

Despite..