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Many thanks,
Kathleen

I'm here

My biggest problem with the prelude no 6 is that my teacher does not like it , also it does not suit my piano very well, but I might try to record it somewhere else.

The Chopin-thread has for some time become far too academic for a simple soul like me, so I have no contributions to make.
I'll better stick to my black and white keys, trying to make some noise ....both Chopin-like noise and other kinds

Ragnhild

Checking in (#4) !

Haven't given the piece my full attention yet, but it seems fine in terms of difficulty.

Haven't been over at the Chopin thread in a while

Thank you both for checking in. I appreciate it.

But now I am concerned about Ragnhild's comment about the Devoted thread becoming too academic. It is true that we have some members who are quite proficient and knowledgable and can "talk the talk," as they say. Sometimes it goes right over my head...way over. But I think we do try to balance it out (as least I do, because I am certainly not an academic) with lighter stuff. Frycek and I going to Washington, for example.

Euan...why haven't you visited?? I am again concerned because you contributed some wonderful comments.

We miss you both. Please don't be "scared" away by posts that don't appeal to you. Just skip over them. Believe me when I say that I will always try to keep it light and bright.

Come back!!

Regards to you both,
Kathleen

I'm not a contributor to the Devoted thread, but I do read it a lot so I'll throw in my 2 cents on what keeps me from visiting/contributing more often.

The darn thing is too big and unwieldy. If you guys went with the Chopin Forum idea it would be a lot easier to follow, a lot easier to find things, and I think a lot more inviting for real Chopin neophytes like myself to participate.

Again, I'm not a participant in the Devoted thread so I know my opinion isn't of great value here, but I wanted to mention the perspective anyway.

Hi Kathleen. The reason I haven't been around recently is mainly due to musical tastes changing.

I tend to go around in circles - some months I get engrossed with classical, other times I prefer to listen to modern music. It just so happens that I've been going through a modern spell.

Will be back soon!

*check*

DeepElm:

Why in the world would you think your opinion is of no value or importance? Thank you for letting me know what keeps you away from the thread.

I certainly agree that the thread is getting too huge. I've tried creating indexes (indices?), but even so, there's a lot of jumping around. But, of course, that's how posts are done. All over the place on all different topics, etc.

Just recently I brought up the subject of asking Frank to allow us to create a new forum (and I was the one against it several weeks ago), but no one responded to my quiry. Maybe I need to post it again. Thanks again. I hope we can get someting done to bring it "down to size," so more people (like you) will drop in.

O.K. Euan. See you later.

Lizst Addict: No surprise here. AND if you do make a video of your playing the 48.1, you MUST also post it on the Devoted thread, please.

Kathleen

I've forgotten the reasons offered against pursuing a Chopin Forum when first suggested several weeks ago. I recall being strongly for the idea at first, until strong countervailing arguments were presented—which, of course, I've now forgotten.

I do remember a mention that forums require moderators. Would volunteers need to be available in the wings, or does Frank have a waiting list of his own?

What were the other negative considerations?

Wasn't there some concern that a separate forum wouldn't have the same friendly feeling that the single thread has ?

I think there was a concern that having a separate forum might actually have less people read it because people tend to forget about separate forums, they'll check the ABF but not go to other forums.

There were other concerns but that's all the comes to mind right now.

Right, both of you! The reasons you gave were basically the main aruguments against a Chopin forum a few months back. And they are good ones.

But I think we have to do something. The index thing is not working out very well.

I thought perhaps I could create a new topic called "What's New on the Chopin Thread." Then I'd simply post links to specific pages to some of the most interesting topics on the Devoted Thread.

(Now who is going to decide what's interesting??). Of course, I will have to update it on a regular basis, perhaps once a week, depending. And, it would have to stay on the first page...at all times.

What do you think? Should I present this idea to the people on the Devoted Thread? This way, other ABF could check in, once in a while...and if a topic interests them, and they would like to read and, perhaps, respond, it would be a lot easier. Easier for the members of the Devoted Thread also, when searching for something.

Your comments, please...thanks.

Kathleen

Checking in.

I also check the Devoted thread from time to time and read what is being written. Usually I look to the top of the page that comes and read the latest, though that method probably causes me to skip many pages where something of even greater interest may have been written.

Kathleen, I think your idea of a separate post asking us to check in is a good idea. What do you think about occasionally writing a separate post to say what's going on in the Chopin thread if it might be of general interest? Something like "Liszt Addict just posted another beautiful recording" as a thread topic, then tell them what page to find it on. Maybe that would keep people from drifting apart.

Nancy

I love the idea of a Chopin forum. I imagine going into the forum and seeing threads like:

• Concert report: Hershey Felder as Chopin at the Polish Embassy (with pictures)
• What are the easiest Chopin pieces ?
• Who is Sand and why does everyone hate Sand ?
• Chopin societies ?
• What are your favorite Chopin moments ?
• An All Chopin Preludes recital
• etc. (you get the idea)

It would be easy to see what conversations are going on, and easier to find things I think.

Nancy: Thanks for checking in, but I think I'm a little confused about your suggestion. My idea was to post a new topic called on the ABF called: "What New with Chopin? (or something catchy like that). And on this thread, I would provide links to the main thread "Devoted to Chopin..." and to interesting topics or discussions, etc. There wouldn't be anyting about checkin in...other than people "checking" it out. As I mentioned, I would keep it current and on page 1.

Well, Buck...your idea is very enticing. It would certainly organized this huge thread and no doubt bring in more people with their ideas, opinions, knowledge and everything else.

So...right now, it might be a choice of two ways to go.

1) create a Chopin Forum (in which all kinds of topics could be posted and hopefully, threads to keep it going.


or

2) create a new topic on the ABF called "What's New with Chopin" in which I would post links to the main Devoted thread...

I think it might be interesting to get the opinion of those on the "Devoted" thread. Maybe someone else can come up with something ever better although I have to admit our two ideas are pretty great.

And from there, perhaps, we could actually ask people on both the ABF and the Pianist Forum, for their opinion.

Thank you both.

Kathleen

Obviously this is just my personal opinion but creating a separate Chopin forum just seems a bit arbitrary.

Why not just prefix a load of threads with "Chopin Devoted: " or something - then you dont need to go back and create index messages - it's so much easier to manage and browse.

I really strugge to see why everyting to do with Chopin is one one thread on a threaded forum; surely the prelude recital for example deserves its own thread...

I think....you are actually pushing for a Chopin forum, if I read your note correctly.

This one sentence..."I really strugge to see why everyting to do with Chopin is on one thread on a threaded forum; surely the prelude recital for example deserves its own thread..."

This is exactly what I mean.

Please see the note I justed posted on the Devoted thread for more details here.

Thank you,
Kathleen

Hmmm.... even though I (a) don't play any Chopin, and (b) rarely read the Chopin threads, I'll offer an opinion anyway. I don't think there should be a separate Chopin forum. The downside of additional forums is that they rarely see any traffic, and that creates a perception of not much going on... and that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I may let days or weeks go by before I check out the nonclassical forum, for example.

I also think it's probably not a good idea to put all the Chopin stuff in the "Hopelessly devoted..." thread, for all the good reasons mentioned so far.

The solution I would advocate is to have logically organized separate threads in either the AB forum or the Pianist Corner. There could be a thread about tidbits regarding Chopin's life, other threads devoted to study groups for major works, a thread devoted to dissecting Hugh Grant's ability to act the role of Chopin, etc. etc.

Just mho, which doesn't amount to a hill of beans because of reasons (a) and (b) above.

Hugh Grant is pretty cute; who cares if he can act or not.

Someday, we will get you over there. How about a recording of someone playing a Chopin nocturne on the accordian? I kid you not!

But, thank you. Your opinion is always welcomed and valued. It's especially kind of you considering you don't visit the thread and have no real interest in it. But it's obvious you consider it worthwhile.

I especially like the reason who gave...about not creating a new forum. I fear it will not see much traffic. We already have so many other forums. Just too many for people to seek out.

As far as spreading Chopin out all over the place, he's too thin (a joke :rolleyes: he never got over 100 pounds in his life, at 5'7"). Actually, the expression "logically organized" is the kicker.

I think it would take more logic and organizational skills than I possess. However, that doesn't mean it can't be done. But by whom? Also, I have a feeling many of the sub-topics would just wither and die on some back pages for lack of regular responses. I've learned that it takes a lot of effort and time to keep a thread going.

So far, I "leaning" to the "What's New...." idea. It seems the easiest to do and will keep Chopin in full view and current.

Regards,
Kathleen

oopppss

I like the what's new idea.

just checking in - haven't started yet, but intend to soon!

Checking in. I've learnt bits and pieces of the #16 but I still need to spend a good month getting all the notes securely in memory and under my fingers so that I can at least play it at half speed. Now that I'm done with the Rachmaninoff prelude I can spend more time on this one.

I think the Chopin thread is just fine as it is, it's just that I don't have time to read it all (and if I do I find it goes far above my head ).

I loved your pictures from Hershey's performance, I am sure, Kathleen and Frycek, that you had the most wonderful of times there

I think it might be a good idea to have a separate prelude-performance thread if you want us to check in from time to time.

Ragnhild

No, ABF is a forum, I am not saying there should be a Chopin forum - that sort of thing almost always ends in an dead forum.

Perhaps it's my use of the word "thread" that is confusing. I mean what this software calls "topics".

i.e. why not just post separate topics on various Chopin related stuff and let them die (or not) naturally - then you don't need to work on indexing as you are doing and as somebody else said, you can simply create a separate topic pointing at the 'devoted' topics and bump it as you like to keep it visible or ask a moderator to link to it from the welcome topic (since it's very popular).

Some software does allow multi-threads (based on reply structure) in a single topic and displays them in a tree view but this software doesn't so it's almost impossible to find anything in a huge single topic/thread - without your hard work on indexing of course - which would be unnecessary if you used separate topics/threads.

I like Chopin's music, but have only ever read about a tenth of what has gone on over there in the "devoted" thread. That thread is just too darned long

By contrast, this thread is much shorter and I have read all of it -- even felt motivated to post something. And I'm not even playing a Chopin prelude

So yes, let's talk about Chopin and his music, but let's break it up into smaller topics. Like this one

I'm "checking in" for #2. (correction...I mean #3)

I'm very confused at the moment, as we're discussing proposed changes to the DtC thread in the Preludes thread even as we discuss the Preludes project in the DtC thread! I guess it's inescapable (and inescapably ironic) that organizational constraints intrude even now.

Monica's suggestion, though, is so common-sensical that it begs the question, "Why weren't we already doing that?"

It's easy to see how the DtC thread can come to feel like an especially safe space here. I've started Chopin-related topics in the Pianist Corner, and, though the potential audience is unquestionably larger, the occasional snarkiness from posters outside ABF (using very broad strokes here) has been a disincentive. I also have a distinct feeling that the level of participation in a given thread often depends on the popularity of the original poster and the participants involved.

But why don't we just empower ourselves to post our discrete Chopin-related topics as new threads in either the ABF or the Pianist Corner? If we want to distinguish them in some way, we can agree on a prefix like "DtC:" or "Devoted:" at the start of the subject line.

By intentionally staying within the confines of our single Devoted to Chopin thread, we've ghettoized ourselves—which isn't to say that didn't have its advantages! Self-segregation notwithstanding, DtC feels like a welcoming and all-inclusive place, one where kindred souls share the camaraderie conferred by our devotion to Chopin—no matter how different we may be as people.

If the best way of expanding our boundaries here is just to start new threads with a new prefix, though, should we be in the Pianist Corner or continue to be in the ABF? Or either, depending on the specifics of the topic?

Obviously, it can't be both simultaneously, and that's where the idea of a dedicated Chopin forum gets appealing again: Having a thread on either Pianist Corner or ABF means the potential for participation will be limited to those who frequent one at the expense of the other. I know a lot of PW members read and participate in both forums freely; many, many others, though, are largely self-limiting to one over the other, i.e., they have a strong favorite and don't pay much attention to the other one.

We Chopin lovers are a diverse lot, with differing backgrounds, skills and nationalities. What option serves the most in the best way?

I learn a lot from other people's opinions here (and that's an understatement), so I hope that more will weigh in on this—if they can find the correct thread to do so!

Steven

Thanks, Peyton. Just thinking of you and your hand and was going to post a new topic asking how it was healing. I am assuming it's doing well. I'm glad.

Steven:

I DON'T KNOW HOW this link to the "Please Check In" for prelude players evolved into a "Suggestion Box" for creating or changing the way we do the Devoted thread now.

I believe it was started by my concern, which was posted by Ragnhild, that some of our long-time members have drifted away because the topics are getting too "academic."

Of course, I (and I believe others) want the thread to have something for everyone. Topics posted that are not of interest are easily skipped over.

Looking back over all the hundreds and hundreds of posts, we have run the gamut...some on the lighter side, (silly but fun) and others more serious and still others that are of geniune value to those who have had more theory, knowledge and experience. I believd there is room for "everything."

And, as I was giving the "New Forum" more thought this morning, I realized that we would run the risk of not getting enough traffic, as I mentioned above.

The posting of particular topics with prefixes...could be of value, at first, but to keep them going and on the first page (so important) they would require responses on a regular basis, or else (as I also mentioned) they would slip into oblivion and never get any feedback once they do.

Just as an aside...it takes almost constant activity to keep a thread going. I certainly can attest to that.

I am going to copy all of this thread on the main "Devoted" topic, hoping to get some opinions from the Chopinophiles.

I am still leaning towards the "What's New with Chopin?" A new topic, altogether, but one that will just provide links to the main "page." That way people can see which topics are being discussed or posted...and if any appeal to them, they can easily jump right to that link (I will make sure I provide the actual page inside the link).

Again, I think this plan will be easier to manage and keep current and ALWAYS ON THE FIRST PAGE.

I appreciate your comments. You have given it much thought...thank you. And thank you for joining us. Your posts are always so intelligent and insightful, and some enjoy "picking your brain." Others, (inlcuding me) ..well, their background isn't as deep as yours, and because of that, they feel the posts are getting too "technical."

With the new "plan" they can skip these, but others can find them immediately.

I would like to keep all of Chopin on the ABF. But this and all of the above are just MY opinions.

Regards,
Kathleen

I'm just checking in for #3, is Peyton doing #3 as well?

I got your PM, KG. Thank you.

Kathleen

Here is the FROZEN list I copied from the devoted thread page 58

1 - Piano again
2 - Frycek
3 - Kawaigirl
4 - Euan Morrison
5 - Op30no3
6 - Ragnhild
7 - Bassio
8 - Gerg
9 - Stephenc
10 - Op30no3
11 - Op30no3
12 - playadom
13 - MaryRose
14 - Op30no3
15 - NancyM333
16 - Jazzyprof & Playadom
17 - Kathleen
18 - Gerg
19 - Op30no3
20 - Thalamus
21 - Piano again
22 - Frycek
23 - Gerg
24 - LisztAddict
Op.45 - Hershey88


I think I saw someone mentioned Prelude #26, there is NO #26 unless it's recently discovered.

Thanks, LA:

But (just when you think you have it right...?), Peyton is playing #3. Kawaigirl PM'd me and said she wanted Peyton to play it, and she would act as a backup.

#26 is being played by Sotto Voce. I confess I don't know what this is, but he does, so ???

So I guess my list is correct ( I hope).

Your help is appreciated.

Kathleen

Well, of course there is, and I'm playing it.

Chopin's presto con leggierezza in A-flat was a gift dedicated "à son ami Pierre Wolff." The manuscript remained in the possession of Mr. Wolff's family until it was first published in Geneva in 1918.

The piece was not designated a "prelude" by Chopin, but its authenticity is not disputed. (And it is a finished piece, too, not a sketch.) Anyway, it's commonly known as Prelude #26 (including in the Paderewski edition).

Well, that settles that! Thanks, Sotto Voce for clearing this up. And for the description of the 26th. Who knew!!

Kathleen

Dern it! There really is No 26. I hate it when I am wrong, but what do I know about Chopin music? I am a Liszt addict.

Thanks for verifying that, Sotto Voce!

checking in - again! (see page 1) printed out my sheet (only 1 page whoohoo! and learning my first measures)

Hello!

Still working on the Preludes, every single day.

Not a lot of time to post because of work and baby, but have not been slack with the practice.

I assume that is the purpose of the thread.

Yes...thanks Greg.

Kathleen