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#104089 - 02/08/04 10:25 PM Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
merrod Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 8
I'm looking to buy one of these two in near future, like a week. I'm thoroughly confused. I've studied and heard the two of them side by side and they both sound great. The prices are roughly equal. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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#104090 - 02/09/04 06:18 AM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
Christopher James Quinn Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 2299
 Quote:
Originally posted by merrod:
I'm looking to buy one of these two in near future, like a week. I'm thoroughly confused. I've studied and heard the two of them side by side and they both sound great. The prices are roughly equal. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. [/b]
I've never played or even saw a JP, but I played a Petrof IV in december, then played a couple of different ones this past weekend (at Altenburg in NJ) and they were all very nice pianos. Some people actually like the Petrof IV better than the Petrof III (6'3") an opinion I may be moving towards myself, except I've only played one Petrof III.

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#104091 - 02/09/04 08:09 AM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
Dan M Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 770
Loc: California
 Quote:
Originally posted by merrod:
I'm looking to buy one of these two in near future, like a week. I'm thoroughly confused. I've studied and heard the two of them side by side and they both sound great. The prices are roughly equal. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. [/b]
I haven't heard the Pramberger, but the Petrof is a great piano with good reviews. The IV tends towards more warmth than the III to my ear. I recommend seriously considering the warmer piano between it and the Pramberger, as pianos get bright with age, and will probably sound brighter in the home than the showroom.

Dan
_________________________
The piano is my drug of choice.
Why are you reading this? Go play the piano! Why am I writing this? ARGGG!

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#104092 - 02/10/04 10:53 PM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
HappyGoLucky Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/07/03
Posts: 295
Loc: Arlington, VA
I can certainly vouch for the Petrof IV. Bought one "used" (barely used...3 months new) and I'm still in love with it. I'm sorry I can't speak to the Pramberger. But most of the folks on the forum will tell you to follow your heart & buy the piano that sings to you. Good luck!! Virginia (from Virginia)

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#104093 - 02/11/04 12:11 AM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14619
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
The new Pramberger series 2004 all come with full German Renner actions which could - I said could[/b] - give this piano the edge at least in feel and touch responsiveness.

And since they receive some fairly serious voicing now before being shipped to dealers, their tone can certainly be very 'interesting'.

On the other hand, Petrofs often -I said often[/b] ;\) - have a warm and very musical tone which appeals to the romantic ear.

Their 'feel' is,unfortunately, sometimes a little different subject and you will have to find your very own comfort level here.

Perhaps play several models by the same makers and see how your 'comfort zone' develops.....

Good shopping!

Norbert \:\)
[ex-Petrof and currently Pramberger dealer]
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#104094 - 02/11/04 12:37 AM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
me_dup1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 261
Loc: north of 53
The Petrof also has Renner action, whatever that means here.

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#104095 - 02/11/04 09:33 AM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
byebye Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/03
Posts: 1426
I think that the Petrof uses Renner parts, rather than a full Renner action.

Norbert gave a balanced response to the questions of touch and tone...with full disclosure, too.

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#104096 - 02/11/04 09:54 AM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10614
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
I believe that the JP Series now uses Renner parts as well.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#104097 - 02/11/04 12:37 PM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14619
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
A 'balanced response' is still always depending on whatever a player perceives him/herself in the end

And rightly so.

On the other hand there are some 'minor facts' not to be conveniently left out in the larger scheme of things here.

Which some makers like to 'nebulize'.

"German parts" does not make a German piano.

"Able wool" does not make an Abel hammer.

"Renner parts" does not make a Renner action.

The golden label on the hammer rail clearly stating "Renner,made in Germany".... does.[/b] .

You got it....or you ain't.

State you facts clearly to the high court,accused! \:D

Hope this is 'balanced' enough! \:\)

norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#104098 - 02/11/04 02:33 PM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
byebye Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/03
Posts: 1426
Steve,

According to Norbert the JP series pianos are using full[/b] Renner actions, not just "parts."


Norbert,

There once was a television ad in which "parts is parts" was used to describe "animal byproducts" in a competitor's dog food.


Reading between the lines: Many would prefer the Pramberger action and the Petrof tone. Can you have the best of both? Sure...but it will cost you more money.

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#104099 - 02/11/04 03:01 PM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
Christopher James Quinn Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 2299
 Quote:
Originally posted by MarkS:

Reading between the lines: Many would prefer the Pramberger action and the Petrof tone. Can you have the best of both? Sure...but it will cost you more money. [/b]
I played a few Petrofs this past weekend, a V a IV and a III. All of the actions were quite nice and the tone lovely. Note that I consider myself disproportionately focused on the action when I test a piano, probably 90% of my reason for buying a Foerster was the action. The Petrofs were all very nice - even going back and forth with the AFs. In a different league of course, but still very nice.

The Petrof V I played was actually purchased by a board lurker the day after I tested it (Hi Ellen!) and she said that there was some variablity among the Vs that she tested and she liked this one best.

SO they at least have the potential of being really nice actions.

I'd also point out that this particular V was leaps and bounds better than my Baldwin M which I sold last month. In action and in tone. IMO, of course.

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#104100 - 02/11/04 04:13 PM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
Kevin_dup1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/03/02
Posts: 343
Loc: Illinois
merrod,

Of course, buy what you like best! I can say, though, that the Petrof IV was on my short list of finalists. The action was quite good once the piano had been regulated.

During my search, I had been haunted by the suggestion that Petrof was digging into its parts bin and cobbling together a piano. That is not true. Pure Renner...great! Petrof-Renner...as good?? By all accounts, good enough for most any professional. And it was certainly good enough for me.

I dealt with a related issue regarding hammers in Petrofs, and in the end, I learned that Petrof makes very fine pianos, and they are definitely a great value for the money.

Trust your ears and your fingers. If you're satisfied with the Petrof-Renner action, then do not fear, especially if in your heart you truly like the Petrof better.

I can't comment directly on the Pramberger...it seems to have a lot of quality components, and so I suspect it's a fine piano, perhaps better than some of its Asian competition. But I doubt if it's "better" than a Petrof.

Bottom line: Pick what you like best.

Kevin

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#104101 - 02/11/04 04:26 PM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10614
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Dollar for dollar, I'd put the Pramberger JP Series up against Petrof any day. Both are very nice pianos.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#104102 - 02/11/04 04:34 PM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
shantinik Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/23/01
Posts: 4271
Loc: Olympia, WA
Dollar for dollar, a Pearl River is better than both of them. (It's a dumb way to compare pianos.)

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#104103 - 02/11/04 04:40 PM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10614
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Basing a purchase on value is dumb?

If I were willing to spend say $15,000 on a piano, I would consider it wise to search for my favorite piano at that price.

What's dumb is your constant attacks on my posts regardless of their validity.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#104104 - 02/11/04 05:06 PM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14619
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
As a former dealer I have played many Petrofs who had nice tone but in almost all cases needed a lot of fairly serious prepping.

While there is nothing inherently wrong with this, it shows - at least to me - both an attitude and[/b] aptitude by any given company.

Attitude,because if I sell anything to anybody, I would put it in the very best condition it can be to begin with.

But then, I'm perhaps still a bit of a hardnosed old Kraut! \:D

Aptitude: I would only be able[/b] to do this if I actually could.[/b]

Final prepping and concert regulation, voicing requires the highest skilled manpower in any factory and it's exactly those guys who don't like to "stick around" in those hustle-bustle,noisy and neon lit confined walls.

Not as long as they, as full fledged concert technicians, can make 10x more working as independent tuners in any major city in the world.

And have a beer in the sunshine at any time of the day....watching the beautiful girls of Prague walk by......

Actually the Czeks do make a fabulous beer!!

norbert \:\)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#104105 - 02/11/04 05:29 PM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
Christopher James Quinn Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 2299
 Quote:
Originally posted by Norbert:
As a former dealer I have played many Petrofs who had nice tone but in almost all cases needed a lot of fairly serious prepping.

[/b]
So that we know to which vintage Petrof you are referring , how long ago were you a Petrof dealer?

thanks

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#104106 - 02/11/04 05:37 PM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14619
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
1992/93

norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#104107 - 02/11/04 05:50 PM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
Christopher James Quinn Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 2299
 Quote:
Originally posted by Norbert:
1992/93

norbert [/b]
Thanks

So Petrofs of 11 years ago were:

Worse
Better
Same

in terms of landed quality, when compared to new Petrofs? Larry Fine lists a number of improvements in the Petrofs related to quality and finish.

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#104108 - 02/11/04 07:26 PM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14619
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
A recently fired store manager from a nearby Petrof piano dealer recently told me that the grands have become better in the last few years while the uprights have not.

On the NAMM show recently, there were also visible improvements especially in regards to hardware and finishing details.

If you like the touch and sound of any one particular piano,it should always be a serious contender.

Independent from make.

norbert \:\)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#104109 - 02/11/04 07:53 PM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
merrod Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 8
I appreciate all the input. All of you obviously have a tremendous wealth of knowledge and I considerate myself fortunate to have such a nice group of people helping out. Today I purchased the Petrof IV Chippendale Mahogany finish. My family and I are very excited and look forward to delivery. Kudos to Mathis Music in Sarasota, specifically Ted Hayes and Tom Mathis, great guys with great references. Again, thanks to everyone.

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#104110 - 02/11/04 08:08 PM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
byebye Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/03
Posts: 1426
Congratulations!

The Petrof will give you a lifetime of pleasure.

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#104111 - 02/11/04 10:20 PM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14619
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Ende gut...alles gut!

Congratulations to your new piano!

[Hope it came with a case of dynamite Pilsner..... ;\) ]

norbert \:\)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#104112 - 02/12/04 08:38 AM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
me_dup1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 261
Loc: north of 53

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#104113 - 02/12/04 08:41 AM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
me_dup1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/02
Posts: 261
Loc: north of 53
Norbert,
How many Petrof dealers are there in your area (Vancouver/Surrey)? I know you're the exclusive Estonia dealer in Western Canada. Is Petrof the same? Only one dealer in Greater Vancouver?

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#104114 - 02/12/04 11:57 AM Re: Petrof IV vs Pramberger JP-185
Norbert Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14619
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Yes, Petrof is imported, distributed and sold by Tom Lee Music
[and associated companies]
- by far the largest music retailer in this area with 7 different branches and locations.

norbert \:\)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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