Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Anyone Else Playing Anything Way Too Hard?

Hi Cindy - I learned this piece after 6 months of lessons. It does look scary, but if you approach learning it right, it's actually very simple, I think it's probably one of the easiest Chopin preludes, believe it or not. I think the problem is that you are trying to see the forest through the trees.

I'd suggest you begin by re-writing the score (use staff paper or something like Noteworthy composer or Finale Notepad on the computer) - but don't write the whole thing out, just write out the outline - that is, the top and bottom most notes of each hand (even though the top note isn't always the lead voice, that's OK)

While you're doing this, figure out what each chord is (the complete chord, not just what you are writing in) - that is, do a harmonic analysis of the piece and write it in as well. It may take you several hours to complete this exercise away from the piano, but the payoff will be ten-fold when you then approach the piano, as suddenly all these huge chords will have context. Also, while you are doing this work away from the piano, listen to your favorite recording of the piece over and over. During this time you are simultaneously memorizing the sound, the harmonic analysis, the visual score itself and the movement of the notes! Would you get that just squinting and sweating through each huge bar? (aside: some will argue that you shouldn't listen to recordings of a piece you are learning as it will "prevent you from coming up with your own interpretation".. I think that's a big load of phooey, especially for beginners, but that's another thread.)

When you're done with this "homework" (hehe), take this analyzed outline to your teacher and ask her to help go over your work, to see if you correctly figured out what the chord analysis is. Hopefully you got some of it wrong, and her helping fix it will help you understand it that much more! (I was very wrong about much of it when I did it the first time! after all, I only had 6 months under my belt, but it was a massive learning experience, as it will be for you!) She may be surprised to see the "extracurricular work" you've done, but if she balks or otherwise dismisses the worth of what you've done, or refuses to talk about any kind of harmonic analysis with you, find a new teacher, she's not worth your money. Seriously. Anyway, sorry to digress. As an aside, you should do this process with every piece you are going to learn, as every minute you spend on "study away from the piano" before actually diving right into the keys, will pay off ten-fold.

So.

Once you have the outline re-written, learn to play that outline. Start hands seperate. Each hand will just be thumb and pinkie, so you're ingraining the "big" movements. You will probably find this quite easy, as it's slow and each hand will only be playing 2 notes.

Once you've completely memorized the outline and can play it hands together, you'll find it much easier to add the other notes. Start again with hands seperate as you add notes back in. (have you read any of the recent threads that point to the "7/20 rules" on that pianoforum.net site? Try these approaches as well.)

I hope this helps! This is really a beautiful piece and it looks much harder that it is, you just have to tackle it in appropriate steps in the right order. Taking the time to dissasemble and analyze it like this before sitting at the piano, you'll see the patterns and voices emerge and it won't just look like random 8 note chord blocks, it'll all have context when you go to play it.

Finally, once you've gotten all the notes memorized and can play it, listen again carefully, perhaps to a professional recording and get your teachers advice, to make sure you are bringing out the lead voice at all times, as it is not always the top most note. This "musicality" is where the teacher will be of most use, as everything else from re-writing and learning the outline, to analyzing and putting it all back together, is stuff you can and should be doing on your own, relying on the teacher most for the musicianship part of it.


This is a great piece to get big chords under your fingers, which is even more reason why doing a thorough harmonic analysis of it is important, because if you really understand why every note is there, you have context and you'll remember it all better. What do you mean your teacher "is not having any of it?" She won't let you play it?

Lastly,

Squinting - I squinted alot, finally got me some glasses last week.. Not sure if that's your problem too heheh.. But seriously, again, learning the outline first will help alleviate this problem as you won't constantly be trying to figure out what every note is.

About the piano not sustaining long enough to find the next chord, here's a trick you can use that will help you prevent skips and stutters between chords. Instead of playing the big chord once as written, play it twice, or three times, or four times.. In other words, double, triple or quadruple the length of the piece by repeating every chord in time.. This will allow you to find the chord and sound it properly to ingrain it in your head, and then give you the opportunity, while you're simply repeating the chord (in rhythm) to mentally/visually locate the next chord so that when you do move to it, it is a clean transition from the previous one. Doing this is a great way to practice these tough transitions while preventing "practicing" skipping and stuttering. Give it a try! Start with 4 repetitions of each chord, or as many as it takes so that visually you know exactly where each finger is going to move to before you make the move. Then do fewer and fewer repetitions until you are down to one as it's written and your transitions will be clear and beautiful. If you did your homework and outline, you will only need to mentally locate the inner voices, as the outer motions are already memorized.

I hope this helps!

ps. somebody mentioned MIDI -get a proper printed score, don't try to print from MIDI.

-Paul

I used to think, Chopin Nocturnes are easy, right? Well, some are, some aren't. Like, I was working on Nocturne op. 27, no. 2 and I noticed how dang hard this piece is. With all the left hand jumping all over the place and the right hand playing off-tempos, it's a beast to sight read.

Cindy,

My nemisis is Lis Story's arrangement of "Someone To Watch Over Me", an old Gershwin standard. The chord progressions are all augmented 9th whatevers and just tie me up. But, if I ever get it right, look out.....

Chuck

Cindy,

I don't think many of us here would be happy with Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star. If you are not reaching (and screaming), then you are not challenging yourself enough. I must admit, I throughly relish the fight. There is nothing quite like finally playing everything accurately, at speed, after a long struggle for the first time.

I remember a month or so ago, I finally got the first page of Wedding Day at Trouldhaugen down at speed after struggling for weeks. (The piece is wickedly fast.) When I finished, I jumped up from the piano, thrust my fists into the air, yelled, and did and end zone strut in the living room... Just thinking about that brief moment makes me laugh today.

My wife came upstairs to see what the racket was all about, saw the score and just laughed.

Nothing feels that good. Of course, if I had just conquered "Mary Had a Little Lamb," my reaction wouldn't be quite the same.

David

A simplified arrangement is rather like meat and potatoes without the "gravy". Cindy obviously enjoys the music of "West Side Story". Bernstein's piano arrangements are a bit sketchy in structuring his catchy melodies but "Maria" is a short pianistic gem.

However, you haven't lived as a pianist if you've missed out on the original compositions of George Gershwin, Cole Porter, Jerome Kern, Richard Rodgers, Hoagy Carmichael, Harry Warren, Burton Lane... to mention a few.

What classics they left us!!

"Summertime"
"Begin the Beguine"
"Smoke Gets In Your Eyes"
"The Surrey with the Fringe on Top"
"Stardust"
"I Only Have Eyes for You"
"How About You"

But how can we leave out the likes of van Heusen, Styne, Fain, Arlen, Young, McHugh, Ahlert, Mancini, Friml, Weill, Brown, Jarre, Legrand, Loesser, Romber, Berlin .. the list goes on.

But out of reach if you don't start at the beginning. My earliest piano involvement used Jerome Kern's "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes" to sort out note location and fingering - a passion for the music made light of sight-reading as memorisation improved the flow.

Effort is dispelled when the pianist finds the music totally captivating.

I love Carmichael. Ran through "How Little We Know" this evening at the end of my practice, just for fun. I love the languid beguine rhythm. His "Stardust" is rather easy and has to be one of the most beautiful pieces of all time. I want to work on "Hong Kong Blues", but haven't tackled it yet. I work on his stuff regularly. Good practice for rhythms and jumps.

Gershwin's "Summertime" is one of those pieces that just came easy for me from the get go, a fact that quite shocked me. It's the only piece I've ever sight played exactly as I wanted to play it, the very first time I played it. (But it's a piece I'm very familiar with growing up in a house where I heard it often.) I love the original with that long two-page intro before the more familiar melody. That intro reminds me of his preludes--something else I want to work on soon. I especially love the tone of the old Chickering for Gershwin.

I've worked on several Porter and Berlin things, too and found them both satisfying and not so hard.

Carmen Cavallero did a wonderful rhumba arrangement of "Maria" for solo piano on his "Show Stoppers" album in the mid 50's (but the best of that particular collection of virtuoso arrangements on that LP was Hart's "My Funny Valentine". I love that piece in almost any arrangement but that one was the best I've heard. Wouldn't be for the faint of heart and would surely get the adrenaline going. The melody gets a variety of treatments throughout, but the part I like most is the close which gets as much energy out of a solo piano as one would associate with a full orchestra, with a great synchopated rhythm. I can't find that arrangement anywhere, so I've been picking at it and noting it myself.

My current favorite for improvisation is Kosma's "Autumn Leaves", another standard. It seems to be one of those pieces you can endlessly vary and it sounds good almost any way you play it, whether you simplify or dress it up. Every time I play it, I discover some new way to add texture or modulate a voice a new way. I like pieces like that.

just Rick...

You might enjoy "Piano Stylings of the Great Standards" from the Steinway Library

Griphon was kind enough to send me a copy.. Great arrangements - not TOO hard but pretty nicely arranged and not exactly easy..including

As TimeGoes By

Blue Moon

Don't Worry about Me

Stormy Weather

Over the Rainbow..

One could be an instant pianobar guy or gal

Apple - Why is there an * by your name? Just curious.

it's a kiss that someone threw away.

I put it back on my name and then, when I tried to change back to plain old apple the forum wouldn't let me... so now it's just an extra self appointed star I guess. You could put one by your name but you can't revert to your original name.

Nah - I don't want to copy you. *

Well,, I am not always emulatable... what can I say?

Hey, wait a minute, this is supposed to be a beginner's forum! How am I, as a beginner, supposed to be able to play these songs that I can't even pronounce?!? I'm just trying to get through Book 3A of the Faber Piano Method, much less Opus 4,987 of Shastarasatchaikovskychopinbach's 901st symphony!

Mark (who was previously proud that he was able to skip Faber's Book 1 when starting lessons)

Mark-

Great post! LOL I hear ya, brother...

oh. well apparently you haven't heard of Etude in z# minor op 234319873 number 54 by Garanistornoivitovamovich.

now that, my friend, is hard.