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Let me start by asking two questions. If the rest of this post is too long, at least answer these two: 1) Do you have to pay to participate in recitals, if so how much? 2) How often does your teacher/school hold recitals during the year? My teacher is part of a national music school (the Kawai company actually) which is mainly geared to children, and is of course profit-driven. In the past, the music school branch in my town has not had official company recitals held for adults because there weren't enough adult students. So I twice participated in the kids' recitals, but that was pretty awful, esp since I'm an elementary school teacher and it's kind of yucky being in that situation and being the center of attention (ooh, it's the foreign english teacher) and then having a bout of stage fright... Other adults were also not keen on being in the kids recital, so for about the last 4 years, my teacher has been putting together recitals for us on her own. We used to use the music school classroom and that was free, then a few times we rented out small venues that had grand pianos, and all the students split the cost of renting the space (usually $10 or $20 per student) This was fine, and we had maybe 2 recitals a year this way. However, apparently my teacher's activities go against company rules, which include something about all recitals having to bring in a certain profit to the company. So now she is no longer allowed to hold these "private" recitals, and the company has decided to set aside a time to have an "adults section" on the day of their yearly recital. So maybe the kids recital would end at 4pm and the adults would start at 5pm or something like that. This doesn't sound too bad, and it's in a very big hall with a concert grand, which is really nice. The only drawbacks are 1) participation in this recital costs about US$80!!! (that's the price of one month's tuition) and 2) there is only one recital a year, which IMO is not enough. Oh, and on top of all that, I think this was thrown together kind of quickly, so the adult students were told last week that we have until June 17 to decide whether we'll play or not (which is probably long enough to decide) but we have to report the piece title by June 10th (which is definitely not enough time!) (The recital is July 31st, it's the annual kids recital, so children and their parents are usually given a flyer about the recital in May) This has me pretty angry... If this is how it's going to be, we'll only have one recital a year. (which is not likely to help me get over my shaky hands...) And if I decide it's too expensive and I'm not going to participate, that means I'm not likely to have many/any other opportunities to play in front of people (except in my living room.) I've had some other concerns/issues with my teacher, and this almost feels like the last straw, I'm even thinking about maybe looking for another teacher, one who's not part of a big money grubbing company! It's frustrating too, because if you think about what's smart business-wise, it makes a lot of sense to have regular recitals to act as a motivator for adults, and also have "piano-parties" so that adult students can get to know each other and chat and all that. Happy, motivated students are more likely to continue and that means more people paying tuition etc... But this kind of gathering is apparently against company policy For a while now, I have wondering if maybe this company doesn't really care about taking care of its adult students, well now I'm sure it doesn't. Wow, that was longer than I expected! Thanks for listening to me rant. Any advice, comments, words of encouragement are welcome!
Started piano June 1999. Proud owner of a Yamaha C2
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ShiroKuro:
1) Absolutely not!!! I can't speak for all of the U.S., but I've never heard of a private teacher or community music school charging their students to perform in a student recital. Competitions (sometimes called Festivals) may have entrance fees, but the idea of charging students to play in a teacher's year-end recital is a new one for me. I wouldn't pay to play in this kind of recital.
2) My teacher generally hosts 1-2 student recitals a year. Depending upon the number of students wanting to perform, he may split the recital into 2 sections based on age. Thus far, I've been the only adult student interested in playing at the recitals. This year's recital was split by age, so my fellow performers were all high school aged. When setting the date, my teacher elicits input from the students regarding their personal calendars and then chooses a date/time that suits the majority. We know the general time frame (e.g., the target month) of the recital(s) at the beginning of the year. Our teacher informs us of the specific date about 6 weeks prior to the event. About 2 weeks prior to the recital, we submit info regarding the piece(s) we intend to play - although I'm sure he would accommodate changes (if necessary) right up until the recital.
In addition to the recitals, my teacher periodically invites his adult students to musical gatherings in his home. I really enjoy these events.
I'm sorry to read that your music school is so "unfriendly" toward its students. Good luck with your decisions.
. . . Linda
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ShiroKuro-while looking for a new teacher (!), you can also do things on your own to relieve some of the shaky hands and butterflie. Why not start your own piano club of adult students. You could meet (I would suggest monthly) at each other's homes for a small social event and then have everyone play music they are working on, or that they have completed and wish to perform for a friendly group. Volunteer to play at a community center for the elderly, or anywhere you can find a nonthreatening group that would like a few minutes of live entertainment. You are only limited by your own creativity. Keep broadening your own boundaries, and give yourself permission to be less than perfect. We tend to be our own most severe critics. Don't play piano with the intention of impressing anyone; perform because you want to explore your own growth and improvement. Compliment yourself on things you perform well and look on anything you feel was unsatisfactory as constructive clarification of what your next challenge should be. Your current teacher and the school sound completely unacceptable. I can forgive a teacher under constrained circumstances for having the students share the cost of the performing hall and piano rental, but that really should be covered in the fee for lessons.
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I can't speak from experience with piano lessons, but I'm in an on-going voice class at a major (non-profit) music school here in Chicago. Some of the classes incorporate an end-of-session jam session or public performance. There's no additional charge for that; it's part of the class. My voice teacher arranges — on her own, not through the school — three or four big recitals a year (only they are in bars and theatres and we call them "We Haven't Quit Our Day Job Yet Nights," ha-ha!) No fee, no cover charge, just work hard, rehearse, and get up there. People volunteer to run lights, tape the shows and edit together spiffy little videos for people to buy on VHS or DVD, if they like. (I think having shows recorded was something students just kept asking for, so it's become part of the routine. Certainly no one's making money on that end of things.) Where schools make money, obviously, is in tuition, book/music sales, instrument rentals and sales. And, in the case of my school and similar organizations, public membership fees and concert ticket sales (Pros perform, not students. ) If you ask me, the idea of treating recitals like profit-making events — much less expecting students to pay the equivalent of a month's worth of lessons to participate — sounds absurd. How has the school justified this additional cost? Do they have to rent a big venue to host the event or something? Are your lesson fees much lower than average in your locale, leaving no padding to cover costs of a large public performance? What does your teacher say about the company's policy and the fee? She might not be free to speak out directly, but has she given you the impression that this is okay with her? If so, I'd be very tempted to look for a new teacher. Especially if this is, as you say, not the only concern you have about staying with her. Good luck, whatever you decide.
Deborah Charles Walter 1500 Happiness is a shiny red piano.
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1) Do you have to pay to participate in recitals, if so how much?
2) How often does your teacher/school hold recitals during the year?
1. You must pay to participate in the studio recital. The fee is $25 per family per recital. The money goes to the venue in which we perform. The fee has been the same for the six years we've been in the studio. 3. Three recitals a year. January, April, May. There are also monthly group classes: Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced Intermediate and Adult. These are free and held in the basement of the teachers' home. I would strongly encourage you to consider starting a piano club. We have on in our area. You don't need many people to make a go of it. The recitals are in member homes.
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Our local music teachers assocation held an adult recital, my teacher paid $10 for me to participate. This included refreshments.
My teacher holds recitals in the Spring, Fall, and an Ensemble recital. These recitals are free and are held in her home. Everyone brings a snack to share. I am her only adult student so I decided to participate in the kids recitals.
Peggy
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Shiro,
I can understand your anger. It doesn't seem right to have to shell out that kind of money in order to return a profit to the music school. Do not the regular teaching fees of the adult students cover the recitals??
It appears that your teacher's hands are tied, unfortunately, as she is the school's employee and not an independent teacher. It sounds like you may have decided that for other reasons you need to leave her? At least now you know as you begin to search that your needs include frequent opportunities to play before groups and you can make sure you find a teacher who supports that.
Good luck!
Octavia
"These are the good old days" --Carly Simon
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I haven't done a recital yet, but they have one I think just once a year for the adults. It's mainly kids at this music school, but there are a few adults that take lessons also. They have a room at the school for recitals, it's also where the Austin Lyric Opera rehearses, (sometimes I get to hear them when I come for my lesson!).
That seems awfully an awfully high fee for a recital, I don't blame you for being upset.
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Thanks everyone! After I posted this, I was wondering to myself if I was overreacting, so it's nice to hear that others agree with my POV.
The hall is huge, it seats just over 1200 people. If you've seen my web page, that photo is from the second time I played in there, several years ago, when I played with the kids and was the only adult.
I'm sure that there is a tidy fee for use of the hall and the piano and all of that. However, the school has so many students participating in the event, even with it spread out over the weekend, that I can't believe they are not turning a fairly decent profit. So yeah, that bothers me. I don't mind paying a bit, esp when there is food or venue-rental involved, but the same as one month's tuition is just too much (and our tuition is about standard here I think)
It also bothers me that they have flat-out forbidden my teacher from holding more casual, small-scale recitals for adults (esp when there's no cost for that to the company) So if we can only have one recital a year, it's like a make-or-break deal. Apparently some of the other adults (who've played in the previous adult-only recitals) are a little worried about playing in such a big place after only playing in smaller places (and of course, there's no rehearsal.) If there are not 10 adults willing to play, the adults section will be canceled all together.
A piano club is defintely a great idea. I've actually tried starting piano clubs twice in the past, most recently just inviting two friends over to my house to play and chat. So maybe it's time to put a little more energy into that.
BTW, I think my teacher disagrees with the company's rule regarding recitals etc, but yes, her hands are tied. However, as I said, I have additional reasons for thinking about changing teachers, so we'll see. Because of my work schedule, I can't really do anything about that just yet, but I'm going to start asking around and see what kind of private teachers there are and whether there is anyone who has several other adults students.
In the meantime, I may pay up and play afterall. It's not likely I'll have another chance to play in that hall for awhile. And it would be nice to have a newer photo for my web page. :p Although, the photo costs extra!! :rolleyes: After all my complaining, I suppose that makes me a wimp (or worse, a hypocrit) but if there are 9 others who want to play, I can maybe console myself that I'm doing it for the greater good...
I have to decide the piece by tomorrow, so better get to the keyboard and see where I'm at...
Started piano June 1999. Proud owner of a Yamaha C2
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ShiroKuro,
I'm interested to know what the profit margin is for the company. I suggest you call the hall and find out what it costs to rent it for a few hours. Either you'll find out the recital is a rip-off or a fair deal. It might be nice to know.
Besides . . . I'm curious!
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Cindy, good idea!! Also, it occurred to me that if the music school is making a profit, then they might have to give a certain percentage to the hall... hmm, am off to look for a web site...
Started piano June 1999. Proud owner of a Yamaha C2
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Wow, I hope there's something wrong with my math!!!
I asked my teacher and she said there are close to 300 kids participating each year. So at US$80 with 280 kids, that's:
$22,400
that they take in for participation fees. I poured over the hall's web site and tried to include everything I could think of-- spotlights, AC fees, piano, tuning, backstage room etc all have prices individually listed. Even with adding up everything and multiplying it by two (since it's Sat and Sun) I calculated the fees involving renting the space at:
$2736.
That gives them a profit of roughly $19,800. Now let's say the teachers get paid separately for being there all day and they each get a bonus for having a certain number of kids playing... let's say 10 teachers get $300 or something, that still leaves over
$16,000
in profit. Am I missing something?! How can that be! Is this the school's bread and butter?!! I wish I didn't know this! And this morning I pretty much told my teach I would play...
I'll have to check this again when I get back home. Wow, now I'm feeling every more angry. I'm sure that's not going to be conducive to a relaxed performance... :rolleyes:
Started piano June 1999. Proud owner of a Yamaha C2
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I recalculated things, added a bit and then onfirmed that I was including what the school has to pay for using the hall for a for-profit event, and it still comes out that they have at least $15,000 left over in profits. hmmm.
Started piano June 1999. Proud owner of a Yamaha C2
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ShiroKuro, you know what you have to do, don't you?
You have to become the Official Studio Troublemaker.
By quietly letting all the other parents know about this particular rip-off.
Or, um . . . by sponsoring the recital your own self and going into competition with this thieving studio.
Are you sure the 300-student number is right? Can you lay your hands on last year's program?
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Originally posted by Cindysphinx: Are you sure the 300-student number is right? Can you lay your hands on last year's program? I like piano music, but I would not care to sit through a 300 student piano recital . . . Doug
"The secret to staying calm in a crisis is not having all the facts."
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I think I am attending the MacDonald's of music schools... I still don't really know if I included all the costs correctly, and it is possible that they don't make as a big of a profit as the one I came up with, for ex I forgot to include the cost of printing up the programs and there are surely a few more things like that. But yeah, this is pretty hard to reconcile. Cindy and Doug, I'm sure that 300 is the correct number of students, I got that info from my teacher. Pretty big number huh! But this is not just one teacher's students, it's the entire group of music classrooms for this town and 4 little towns in a hours-drive radius that aren't big enough to have their own recitals. That's why I said I thought there would be about 10 teachers present. What they do is put kids into groups, sometimes based on who their teacher is and what level they're at. The recital is held over two days, and the program has all these sections, and each section has an individual start time. You have to show up at a certain time (for ex, all section one kids arrive at 10, start at 10:45, section two kids arrive at 11:30 or something like that) Then if you were going just to hear someone, you'd go only for that section. It's probably a pretty good set up I suppose, all things considered. Cindy, your idea of becoming the Studio Troublemaker does have a bit of appeal to it, but I'm afraid it might not get me anywhere. My husband pointed out that this recital might appear to turn a nice profit, but that might only serve to balance out shortages during the rest of the year. Given that the school maintains all these different classrooms in various neighborhoods, each having at least one piano, and conducts regular seminars for the teachers and so on, it probaby has huge operating costs (in addition to paying all the teachers' salaries.) After the long talk he and I had, I doubt that many parents would feel like it was such a big rip off, and even if they did, no one would want to make a fuss. Actually, Mr ShiroKuro stopped just short of saying "this is the Japanese way" gyaaa! :rolleyes: I am planning on calling around to try to find out what other piano teachers do, private and ones that are part of a larger company. Yamaha also has branch schools in this town, so I'm going to ask what their policies are and how they deal with adult students. It should be interesting to compare. In the meantime I have to decide whether or not to be in the dang recital... If I don't play, I'll regret missing the opportunity, and if I do play, I'll probably feel angry at participating in something that I think is 1) a rip off and 2) doesn't value the needs of ABs. oh what to do...
Started piano June 1999. Proud owner of a Yamaha C2
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Well, I did one of those pluses and minuses things, and here's what I came up with:
Reasons to play in the recital:
1)I want to play in this hall. 2)My piece might be ready by then. 3)I can get a nice photo of me playing a concert grand. 4)I need more experience playing in public. 5)This might be the only chance to play in a recital for the next year.
Reasons not to play in the recital:
1)I don’t want to pay $80. 2)I didn’t have enough advance notice to pick a piece and prepare properly. 3)As a result, my piece might not be ready in time. 4)I don’t like the recital set-up (adults after kids only). 5)I don’t want to be seen by lots of the elementary students that I teach (who probably play better than me!) 6)It’s on a Saturday (we were originally told it would be a Sunday) 7)Since it’s on a Saturday, Mr. ShiroKuro can’t come, and neither can several friends who work past the recital start time. 8)There are too many strikes against it to justify the price. 9)If I play, it sends the message that I think this is an ok way to do recitals for adults.
The simple fact that the minuses outweight the pluses is pretty much enough, but looking at number 9, I just decided I can't do it.
So that's more than a bit of a disappointment, but at least I have a decision that I'm comfortable with. Now I'm trying to decide whether I want to write a letter to the head of all the schools in this area (and risk getting my teacher in more trouble) or not. In the meantime, I'm off to write a letter to my teacher. Sigh.
Thanks to everyone who's read all of these long posts! Sorry to go on so much!!
Started piano June 1999. Proud owner of a Yamaha C2
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Been going to piano recitals for 9 years. $5.00 donation once requested by the church where it was held. Otherwise, free. Parents bring the refreshments.
Same thing for cello recitals.
I would not pay $80. Period.
Our teachers have had recitals as infrequently as twice a year, and as frequently as 4 times a year, depending on the teacher. Plus, they arranged for the kids to play retirement centers in addition to the 4 recitals. Very good experiences. Kids become comfortable playing in front of crowds, to the point of liking it.
John, and my two sons play an Estonia 190 and a Samick upright.
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