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#10517 - 08/30/07 10:27 PM Re: Yamaha C7 Vs. Baldwin L1
lambo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/29/05
Posts: 64
Loc: Midwest
If one piano's pinblock has twice the life expectancy of another, and the cost of replacement is large, the issue is relevant. Some people may not agree but they can move on to the next thing in their life without concern and that's the beauty of "random access" forums like this -- take what you need, leave the rest.

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#10518 - 08/31/07 04:34 AM Re: Yamaha C7 Vs. Baldwin L1
Vince in Vegas Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/07
Posts: 169
Loc: Las Vegas
"That being said, I played two concert-grands side by side around 18 years ago. One was a Samick, the other was an Estonia. Both were junk by any other name, and I would not have taken either as a gift."

WOW Pels that's a strong statement! Surely both brands have improved since you sampled them.(?)

#10519 - 08/31/07 12:11 PM Re: Yamaha C7 Vs. Baldwin L1
John Pels Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 1269
Loc: Tomball, Texas
Lambo, if the life expectancy of the pinblock is twice as long as the owner of the instrument it is a moot point. I used my recently rebuilt Weber as an example. The original block had 1/0 pins and had NO loose pins. It lasted 100 years. I re-pinned that block. If it lasts another 100 years, it far outlives me. I am 52.

Vince, if either piano has improved since then, I say great. Estonia has become the darling of PW. Everyone cannot be wrong. It is academic to me. We have had a bit of a shakeup in the Houston area with the local piano stores in recent years and do not have quite the same sample available that we did 20 years ago. I was offered a Samick 9 footer recently for around $12K in supposed "excellent condition". I tried to get one of my college buddies to buy it, but his take was the same as mine. He had played it 20 years ago and it was junk, so why would he take a chance. They may have improved, but they shot themselves in the foot by cranking out such junk a few years back. Part of this may be generational. The folks buying new now may be considerably younger. Most folks my age that majored in music back in the 70's have already purchased their dream pianos by now. We were jaded by what we played in college and also what we played when we descended on local piano stores way back when. In undergrad we were a mostly Steinway school. We also had a brand new C7 that was universally despised. In grad school we had Bosies, Steinways and some Yamahas. I preferred Steinways from my college sampling, and still do. I owned an M that was a really fine instrument, but when I got off into the 9' esoterica, I found that most 9 footers are wonderful in their own way regardless of brand, and own a few non-Steinway 9 footers. Hmmm.. maybe I will start a new topic.

#10520 - 08/31/07 02:10 PM Re: Yamaha C7 Vs. Baldwin L1
Luke's Dad Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/28/03
Posts: 1426
Loc: Mid Atlantic
Originally posted by lambo:
Barry - I wouldn't bother with "Luke's Dad" - he's making a fool of himself (and Luke) in this thread. You offered VERY good advice (as the topic is Yamaha vs. Baldwin, a pinblock discussion is perfectly important and along the lines of what I've always heard as well) and he seems to be curiously defensive. [/b]
lambo, first, may I ask if you are a technician or what your backround is? It helps add context to your posts, and if you are a technician or a dealer, it is one of the rules of the forum
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/9462.html .

I've listed my affiliation, and in my post, you'll find that my company was also a Baldwin dealer as well. I have great respect and admiration for the Baldwin Artist Grands. After fifteen years in the industry, I have never heard anything to indicate that over time the Yamaha pinblocks need replacing any more than any other major brands as they get older. Sure, I've heard of cases where they have needed repinned, just as I have for Baldwin, Steinway, Mason, etc... And yes, I've heard of cases where the pinblocks have needed replaced, again, just as I have for everybody else, as well. In the vast majority of these cases, it's always been necessitated by water damage, fire, poor maintenance, etc... Which will affect any piano poorly, and require replacement of parts and perhaps complete rebuilding. If you can supply evidence, true evidence, that over 40-50 years the Yamaha pinblocks deteriorate and need replacement much more than Baldwin's with both pianos being under similar conditions, then I would love to hear it. Of course, then it would raise questions as t why thirty to forty year old Yamaha pianos are much more prevalent in the used market, and why they also usually command a higher price than an equivalent sized and aged Baldwin.

It seems to me that Neal has done alot of research and longevity of the pinblock and tuning stability were issues that he didn't have for either instrument. His concerns were power and the brightness of Yamaha tone over time. Rather than address these issues, a straw argument was made regarding pinblocks. Again, this had nothing to do with the issue at hand. I just wished to get past (imo) non issue, and get back to Neal's concerns. If that makes me a fool, so be it.
Purveyor of Yamaha, Petrof, Pearl River, and Kohler & Campbell pianos.

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#10521 - 08/31/07 10:55 PM Re: Yamaha C7 Vs. Baldwin L1
RachFan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1360
Loc: Maine, U.S.
I own a 1983 Baldwin L bought new. I chose it because I found the extra string length over the Steinway L to be richer in sound, and it was more competitive priced than Steinway. (I had been a previous Steinway M owner.) I didn't look at Mason & Hamlin at the time, as they did not offer a 6'3" piano then. Nor did Falcone (now defunct). I did compare to the Yamahas though--and didn't like them as much. I've tested Yamaha's since then and still feel the same way about them. What I do like about Yamaha is the very even action and the key surfaces. Things I dislike are the short tone decay, the woody bass, the tenor with little character, and the somewhat brittle treble. Baldwin gives you you what I would call a profound bass, a nasal tenor and a treble with incredible clarity. And somehow the Baldwin keyboard registers blend so well together. Please understand, I'm not out to knock Yamaha, as many people like them. They make very good instruments. It's just that I like Baldwin better. A last note: I don't think the Yamaha C7 to Baldwin L1 is the appropriate comparison, although I realize those are the choices at that particular dealer. The Baldwin SF10 (7') would certainly be the closer competitor to the C7.

#10522 - 10/12/07 08:52 PM Re: Yamaha C7 Vs. Baldwin L1
tritonstudio Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 20
Loc: Los Angeles
I have played and tested the C7 to many other brands including the Steinway. The combination of price value, design, look, artistry and the sound of C7 7'-11" will beat the rest seriously!
I'm trying to get it as soon as I save enough money now. This is just my own opinion.
Yamaha C7.

#10523 - 10/13/07 12:12 AM Re: Yamaha C7 Vs. Baldwin L1
curry Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/02
Posts: 3770
Loc: Hamilton Twp, NJ
G.Fiore "aka-Curry". Tuner-Technician serving the central NJ, S.E. PA area. b214cm@aol.com Concert tuning, Regulation-voicing specialist.
Dampp-Chaser installations, piano appraisals. PTG S.Jersey Chapter 080.
Bösendorfer 214 # 47,299 214-358

#10524 - 10/13/07 12:35 AM Re: Yamaha C7 Vs. Baldwin L1
pianobroker Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 4309
Loc: North Hollywood CA.
7'4" till 1985 ish Hey this piano is shrinking by each and every post. By tommorow it will be the same size as your C2.
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#10525 - 10/13/07 01:04 AM Re: Yamaha C7 Vs. Baldwin L1
RoyP Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 787
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
Originally posted by Luke's Dad:
Of course, then it would raise questions as to why thirty to forty year old Yamaha pianos are much more prevalent in the used market.[/b]
When more people are trying to sell, it means that they aren't keeping them. Think about it.
Roy Peters, RPT
Cincinnati, Ohio

#1216850 - 06/13/09 02:42 PM Re: Yamaha C7 Vs. Baldwin L1 [Re: RoyP]
louisrichards Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 25
Loc: Rochester, NY
Does anyone have opinions or advice regarding the quality of a Baldwin L1 built in the 1930s?
There are only two endeavors that use the word "play", one is Sports and the other is Music; if the enjoyable essence of "play" is absent from either, you have missed the point entirely.

#1216913 - 06/13/09 04:48 PM Re: Yamaha C7 Vs. Baldwin L1 [Re: louisrichards]
Larry Larson Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 992
Loc: Carmel, Indiana
Well, that entirely depends on the condition of the piano. I'm sure it was a great piano in 1930. But 79 years is pretty old in piano years. You would need to have a good tech check it out and find out what it needs. If it has a good "core", it could become a fantastic piano after rebuilding/refurbishing. But if it has some problems that could not be fixed at a reasonable cost, then it's just a money pit. I know PianoBroker and others deal with rebuilding old Steinways and Baldwins, so maybe they will chime in and let you know what to look for to see if the piano you're considering is worth getting. Good luck... Larry Larson
1995 Baldwin L grand
2001 Baldwin Hamilton upright
Yamaha S90 synthesizer
YouTubeChannel www.youtube.com/LarryLarsonPiano

#1217006 - 06/13/09 08:46 PM Re: Yamaha C7 Vs. Baldwin L1 [Re: Larry Larson]
Mark... Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4429
Loc: Jersey Shore
I just now realized I just read a 2 year old thread...

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