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#1051892 - 08/28/08 05:41 AM New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
RaGe Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 26
Loc: Paris, France
Hello everyone,

I am returning to studying piano and this time I mean it!

I started at 14 but I have always been cursed with bad teachers and a stubborn mind. I have never done any classical (didn't want to) but have studied jazz extensively until the age of 23. My technique is poor and I've hidden behind vertical jazz harmony to mask it: play some nice fat chords to impress the audience but in substance I don't have much going on the technical side.

Now at the tender age of 34, being more mature and having worked on myself I am ready to jump back at the piano and this time work harder than ever to be able to become a "good" pianist. Classical music is something I want to explore now that I have wisen up!

I am very pleased to have found such a forum where adults beginners can share their experience and be motivated among themselves.

This morning I dusted off the old Hanon book and did the 1st exercise at a very slow tempo in all twelve keys. It felt so good! I can feel that I just a little reconnected with the keyboard, amazing.

However I'd like to have some advice on how I can go over the Hanon. I plan to do 1 exercise a day (in all 12 keys) at the same tempo until I reach #20, then start over with #1 at a faster tempo. Is this a good approach?

Looking forward to your replies.

Cheers,

Regis

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#1051893 - 08/28/08 05:54 AM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
Monica K. Online   blank

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17699
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Welcome to the forum, RaGe!

I avoid Hanon like the plague ;\) so I can't offer any informed advice on your approach, except to say to take it easy at first so as to avoid injury.

I personally think the best way to learn the classical literature is through formal lessons. Do you have a teacher or do you plan to get one?

Check out our recital threads (stickied at top of the AB forum page). I hope you'll consider participating in the next recital... I'd love to hear some 'nice fat' jazzy chords. \:\)
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1051894 - 08/28/08 05:54 AM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
JDelmore Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/10/07
Posts: 634
Ooooo...you're gonna bring out the Hanon-haters on this one...

But it is useful if you can endure the tedium, and your plan seems reasonable.
_________________________
PTG Associate Member

"There is always room above; there is only the ground below."....F.E. Morton (with props to Del F.)

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#1051895 - 08/28/08 05:56 AM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
Monica K. Online   blank

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17699
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
 Quote:
Originally posted by JDelmore:
Ooooo...you're gonna bring out the Hanon-haters on this one...
[/b]
:D \:D He already did and I beat you to it. ;\)
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1051896 - 08/28/08 06:04 AM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
RaGe Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 26
Loc: Paris, France
I figured that would happen as a "hanon" forum search brings many interesting and colorful posts about Hanon.
But that's all I have right now at my disposal and you know what, I kind of like it! I've found that singing the exercise helps a lot to keep the focus and makes the pill easier to digest if you will.
I want to find a good teacher that will adress my very weaknesses, but like I said I've had my share of bad instructors so I am a bit wary.

Thanks for your very warm welcome, I'll check out the recital thingie ;\)

Regis

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#1051897 - 08/28/08 06:11 AM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
With Hanon every day you are just going to re-enforce all that 'poor' technique. Save yourself before it's too late arrggg....!
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1051898 - 08/28/08 06:41 AM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
Les Koltvedt Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 3195
Loc: Canton, MI
Been doing Hanon since Mayish of this year...on 11 and 12 right now...we try to do 2 a week...if one of them is a little slow, we carry over to the next week - or if I don't practice....

I try to go thru all the previous lessons each week. My teacher says the REALLY GOOD players can do the whole book in about an hour...omg

btw welcome to PW...
_________________________
Les Koltvedt
LK Piano
Servicing the S. Eastern Michigan Area
PTG Associate

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#1051899 - 08/28/08 07:20 AM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
cruiser Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1171
Loc: Cornwall, England
 Quote:
Originally posted by keyboardklutz:
With Hanon every day you are just going to re-enforce all that 'poor' technique. Save yourself before it's too late arrggg....! [/b]
...agreed!

If you really want a good - injury free - technique, Google Peter Feuchtwanger.

btw, I like your new avatar kbk - an improvement, if I may be so bold \:\)

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#1051900 - 08/28/08 08:02 AM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
RaGe Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 26
Loc: Paris, France
 Quote:
Originally posted by cruiser:


If you really want a good - injury free - technique, Google Peter Feuchtwanger.

From Peter Feuchtwanger's website:

 Quote:
The Video with the "Piano Exercises for Curing Playing Disorders and for Acquiring a Functional and Natural Approach to Piano Playing" with an appendent book will be puplished in spring 2009. A german version has been published in March 2004 and can be ordered imediately.
Didn't find much about Feuchtwanger ... and I don't read German. \:\( Where can I learn more?

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#1051901 - 08/28/08 08:03 AM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
RaGe Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 26
Loc: Paris, France
 Quote:
Originally posted by keyboardklutz:
With Hanon every day you are just going to re-enforce all that 'poor' technique. Save yourself before it's too late arrggg....! [/b]
Really? Like I said I have no opinion on Hanon's benefits or lack thereof. So what method would you recommend?

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#1051902 - 08/28/08 09:22 AM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
YD Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 590
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
 Quote:
Originally posted by RaGe:
 Quote:
Originally posted by keyboardklutz:
With Hanon every day you are just going to re-enforce all that 'poor' technique. Save yourself before it's too late arrggg....! [/b]
Really? Like I said I have no opinion on Hanon's benefits or lack thereof. So what method would you recommend? [/b]
First of all, welcome to the forum.
No comment re: hanon (I am one of the "hanon haters"). When you say "method," that's probably a little misguided. I suggest relying on a good teacher, who can pinpoint the poor technique and suggest etudes/exercises that would correct it. If you must read "technique" book (I am not familiar with the one suggested above), I recommend Fink and/or Sandor:
http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Piano-Te...19954780&sr=8-2
and
http://www.amazon.com/Piano-Playing-Moti...19954832&sr=1-1
(there are even accompanying DVDs, which I am not familiar with)
_________________________
Yuri
FWIW; YMMV

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#1051903 - 08/28/08 09:35 PM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
I have attended a Lister-Sink workshop, a Fink, an Alan Frazer, a Peter Feuchtwanger, many Carola Grindea and others too numerous... What ever you can get on Peter or Carola is highly recommendable. I believe they all have DVD's. I know Peter does workshops in London and Germany. Thanks cruiser, I don't think anyone understood the last one - kinda too Buddhist.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1051904 - 08/28/08 09:45 PM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
cruiser Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1171
Loc: Cornwall, England
Welcome RaGe! \:\)

Yes, Peter Feuchtwanger's excellent dvd is in English. You can only order the dvd - understandably - with the accompanying explanatory book which, as mentioned, is currently only available in German. Until the whole book is available in English in 2009 you can, however, order a translation - at no extra cost - of the most important sections, namely those relating directly to - and fully explaining - the exercises themselves. This is what I did.

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#1051905 - 08/28/08 11:12 PM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
Seaside_Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2160
Loc: Blackpool, UK
Yes Hanon...erm...don't they makes cameras or typewriters or something? :p

Welcome to the forum RaGe

(note to self: I just know I need to know more about hiding behind vertical jazz harmony cause if anything it just sounds cool)


Lee \:D
_________________________
My Piano Journey Blog...Seaside Lee's Piano Journey...
New Piano Video...Learn To Play "I Dreamed A Dream" with Seaside

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#1051906 - 08/29/08 01:25 PM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
RaGe Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 26
Loc: Paris, France
;\)

Try this C7#11 chord:

LH: C - E - Bb
RH: D- F# - A

Phat and vertical. But I can't play the most basic classical piece.

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#1051907 - 08/29/08 01:36 PM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
RaGe Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 26
Loc: Paris, France
Thank you folks for your suggestions - Doing some sloooow Hanon in the meantime, it's better than nothing I guess!

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#1051908 - 08/29/08 01:55 PM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
 Quote:
Originally posted by RaGe:
;\)

Try this C7#11 chord:

LH: C - E - Bb
RH: D- F# - A

Phat and vertical. But I can't play the most basic classical piece. [/b]
Hey RaGe - You are speaking my language. Just flat that D in the RH and you will have an even more delicious sound. \:D
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

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#1051909 - 08/29/08 02:28 PM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
Peyton Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2501
Loc: Maine
I think your plan for the Hanon sounds admirable. Another thing you can do is change the downbeat on the notes (rather than the first note put the downbeat on the second then the third etc.) As a real challenge try the exercises in different keys. It was said that Liszt could play anything and make it sound interesting. I still use Hannon to work on limbering up etc. and always keep that in mind. \:\)
_________________________
"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
www.youtube.com/Biffer5
www.peytonart.com


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#1051910 - 08/29/08 02:29 PM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
SantaFe_Player Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 607
When I was taking at the university, I did Hanon exercises, too. My professor did not want me to waste my time doing each exercise in all twelve keys. Moreover, I'd work one exercise (in two keys, three at most) for a few weeks. The aim was accuracy and speed. I would start metronoming it slowly, then a few speeds per day, work it gradually up to maybe 132 or 144 per quarter note, in both keys. When I could do this reliably, with relaxed hand, fingers and wrist, and accurately in both keys, then I would start the next exercise. I did work all twelve major scales every day, up and down 1, 2, 3 and 4 octaves with the metronome. Never faster than I could play the most difficult one accurately. Gradually these all got faster as well.
_________________________
SantaFe_Player

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#1051911 - 08/29/08 06:12 PM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
Shey Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 302
Loc: Greater Manchester, England
Hi all,

I have not even seen 'Hannon'. I presume it is a practise book to build skills.

I have been learning for 2 years and my teacher has never suggested Hannon.

Can someone tell me if I am missing something important?

I am learning from a childs book, which I now feel I am progressing with.

At first I was a bit put out, but feel my progress is only hindered by my lack of practise time. I have only 20 minutes a day for real practise.

My teacher says I am doing ok, but I feel my progress is very slow. So is Hannon my answer?

Thanks for any comments.

Shey
_________________________
Alfreds All In One Level 1
Alfreds Masterworks Classics Level 1-2
Adult returner

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#1051912 - 08/29/08 06:40 PM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
Peyton Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2501
Loc: Maine
 Quote:
Originally posted by Shey:
Hi all,

I have not even seen 'Hannon'. I presume it is a practise book to build skills.

I have been learning for 2 years and my teacher has never suggested Hannon.

Can someone tell me if I am missing something important?

I am learning from a childs book, which I now feel I am progressing with.

At first I was a bit put out, but feel my progress is only hindered by my lack of practise time. I have only 20 minutes a day for real practise.

My teacher says I am doing ok, but I feel my progress is very slow. So is Hannon my answer?

Thanks for any comments.

Shey [/b]
There are a lot of practice books out there. Hannon is just one of the older and better known. Some like it and some don't. If I were you... just for the heck of it I'd buy it and try it. It's not expensive and ANY reading is good practice. If you don't like it... it's a good fire starter for the woodstove... \:\)
_________________________
"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
www.youtube.com/Biffer5
www.peytonart.com


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#1051913 - 08/30/08 05:54 AM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3539
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Seaside_Lee:
Yes Hanon...erm...don't they makes cameras or typewriters or something? :p


Lee [/b]
Typewriter? What's a typewriter? ;\)

Regards, JF
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

As good at piano as I am at golf - very high handicap!

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#1051914 - 08/30/08 11:36 AM Re: New member, so glad I found you guys! :)
RaGe Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 26
Loc: Paris, France


A music typewriter. Imagine that!

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