Kathleen
I hope you will visit here too. Liszt was such a fascinating character and since he lived a relatively long time (age 75 I think when he died) there is lots of ground to cover in his evolution from child piano prodigy to touring virtuoso (the rock star of his day and arguably the greatest pianist ever) to composer to teacher to even becoming an abbe of the Catholic church later in life. An amazing story. Lots of myths and misconceptions have sprung up around him and it will be interesting to hear different perspectives on him.
His music was quite visionary for its time and he pushed harmonic language in music far forward. Wagner apparently got a number of his ideas from Liszt but did not adequately credit him apparently. Anyone able to comment on this?


Sophia

When I turned 40 I decided to start studying classical music seriously after years of messing around with blues and rock. One of the first pieces I wanted to learn was...ta da da... Annees de pelerinage sonetto 104 del Petrarca. I heard Horowitz play it and thought (and still do) that it was one of the most amazing piano pieces I had ever heard. I must have spent two years learning the first three pages. Now I have forgotten it alas but have planned on coming back to it.

Liszt was probably the most prolific composer ever. His transcriptions alone are mind boggling. Somewhere in my collection I have his transcriptions of all of Beethovens symphonies. They are amazing.

If i could learn any Liszt pieces it would be #1. Sonetto 104 and #2, his 4th transcendental etude (Mazeppa). Auuau's version of the etudes are out of this world.

Chopin may have been the ultimate musical poet but Liszt was the pianist of the people. The ultimate showman. If you could somehow combine the two I think you would end up with the most amazing pianist/composer of all time.

Dear Sophia and Peyton:

How I agree that Liszt was an amazing, prolific, and magnetic pianist/composer. Even Chopin, who was rather stingy with his praise, truly admired Liszt's virtuosity. And even dedicated his Op. 10 etudes to him. The only problem Chopin had with Liszt, as many know, was Liszt's habit of taking other composers' music (including Chopin's) and adding and changing notes. This did not sit well with Chopin.

I believe they could have been better friends if Liszt was not as flamboyant and was more discrete with his amorous affairs. Chopin was quite angered when Liszt used his (Chopin's) appartment for one of his rendezvous. But that was Liszt!

How strange that he ended up as he did. Truly a fascinating character. I hope this thread runs as long as the Chopin's. I believe there is much "fodder" here!!

I remember hearing his Consolation No. 3 and absolutely falling in love with it. I tried immediately to learn it, but that left hand was beyond my abilities at the time. I am going to give it another attempt soon.

Yes, I certainly will visit here often.

You gotta "Love that Liszt!"

Kathleen

HI Kathleen,
There are many myths and misconceptions about Liszt that have been passed on and repeated through poorly done biographies. I would HIGHLY recommend reading Alan Walker's incredibly well researched and documented biography of Liszt which helps to dispel many of these often unflattering things said about him. Walker shows that a piece that had been said to have been "stolen" from Chopin was actually written when Liszt was a teenager and predated Chopin's work (maybe Chopin borrowed from him! ). The Wagnerites tried to downplay Wagner's debt to Liszt because they wanted to practically deify Wagner but Liszt really influenced Wagner by developing advanced harmonic language before Wagner did.

He was also not the Lothario often presented (although he did, like many men of the time, have affairs and the apt story is probably true.) His two great love affairs (the disastrous one with Marie d'Agoult and his later relationship with Carolyne von Sayne-Wittgenstein) were long term relationships. He was an incredibly generous person as well, teaching for free after he retired from the concert stage, supporting students out of his own pocket frequently and giving many charity benefit recitals.

His becoming an abbe is not so strange once you know more about him. He always had a religious streak. He was devout and spiritual as a boy and wanted to go into the priesthood. He was discourged from this and started his concert career which consumed his life up until about age 36. When he met Carolyne, his interest in religion was rekindled and deepened. They had wanted to marry but she was never able to get free of her first marriage.

Seriously, read Walker if you want to get a deeper picture of one of the towering figures of the romantic era.
Sorry to go on, but there are so many misimpressions of Liszt out there.

Sophia

Thank you, Sophia. Everything you have mentioned about Liszt I have gleened from many books. But I will get Walker. And yes, I do know (as with so many people of the past) that unkind and untrue stories are widely circulated and have been accepted as fact.

One only has to read a few biographies to realize what a kind person he was and what a good heart he possessed. Never a nasty comment, especially when it came to Chopin (who could dish them out, now and then) whom he so admired.


Kathleen

Here's a beautiful rendition (imo) of Un Sospiro performed by Earl Wild:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aOw0sU24Ho

This is an amazing work by Liszt with a most beautiful melodic line and his typical cadenzas and arppegios that set him apart as perhaps the greatest of all the romantic virtuosi.

I trust you will enjoy.

Lisztener

Thanks, Lisztener. I'm amazed at the things you can find on youtube. I also watched Cziffra play the Grand Galop (totally inhuman, the man had unbelievable technique) and Horowitz the Petrarch #104 (heavenly).

Liszt gets unfairly (IMHO) pegged as a "thumper" of the piano--he wrote some of the most incredibly beautiful and lyrical music as well as the dramatic, heroic style he's often associated with.

Sophia

Wow..... what else is there to say.

Sophial, I listened to Cziffra play Liszt's old war horse the Grand Galop. Man... Never had a chance to actually watch someone play it. Amazing.

Here is the master playing my favorite Liszt piece.

As many of us already know and have heard, Franz Liszt did some of the most beautiful transcriptions of any composer of any era. In my opinion, some even surpass the original. But to share one of better transcriptions, here is a video, on youtube of course, of Beethoven's 5th 1st movement. Liszt transcribed all of Beethoven's symphonies for the piano and I believe his purpose was to share this amazing music with smaller villiages who didn't have a full orchrestra and never heard them. This is more proof of his kindness and pianistic abilities for they are all very difficult.

beethoven and Liszt-match made in heaven

Indeed; Liszt was an excellent interpreter of other composers, and to my ear (though some got really mad at him for altering musical content of the original), they often sound better than the originals. (Here, I said it, this is clearly a flamebait!) This especially applies to his interpretations of operaic pieces (fantasies on Don Juan and Figaro) and songs (Schubert's Serenade, Erklonig(spelling???), Ave Maria). His Paganini Etudes are one of my favorite piano music period.

Hi Yuri,
Yes, Liszt did a great deal to help publicize the music of other composers. In some cases, these were transcriptions (e.g. the Beethoven symphonies) and were very faithful to the original; in others, they were titled "reminiscences" or something similar to convey that they were loosely based on the original but were not intended to be straightforward transcriptions and allowed more freedom to bring in his own ideas (and sometimes these were indeed better!).

Sophia

Thank you all for posting the links to selections of Liszt's transcriptions on You-tube. I loved them all, with just a slight exception to the Beethoven. It sort of hurt my ears. I believe that particular composition by Beethoven was best suited for the full orchestra as intended.

Anyhow, as always...Gotta Love That Liszt!!

Kathleen

sophia,

Your research on Liszt has proven you to be an invaluable resource for this thread. I must get Walker's bio of the man. Both you and C7 Player speak highly of the book.

Your writing style is concise yet extremely informative and easily digestible. Thank you, kindly, for being here and bringing Liszt's generous and kind nature to the foreground.

Sincerely,

Lisztener

Hi Lisztener,

Thanks for the kind words. I find Liszt utterly fascinating as a person and musician, and am delighted we now have a thread devoted to this transcendent genius of the piano. Let's keep it going!

Sophia

This is a gross injustice. Time to resurrect this thread and get people talking about Liszt.

I'm there! I've been listening to Pensees des morts. This piece just goes right to the heart. Anyone else love this one?

Sophia

Yep, I love it. Which record do you have? Mine is from the Howard's complete Liszt recordings, vol. 7, and it's kind of uneven to my tastes.

BTW, anybody planning any Liszt for the November recital? Last recital I went for Chopin, and had my regrets as the recital turned out to be Lisztless :-( -yet another gross injustice. Let's not do it again! (The only Liszt' piece I have more or less ready is, hm, quite short..., but I may just submit it anyway)

Here's another almost unknown beautiful Liszt piece, Feuille morte, Élégie d'après Soriano, S428.

It's on the Spanish Album, Vol.45 in Howard's Complete Liszt series.

And not only is it beautiful, but it seems playable.


I have another unknown composer for the Recital, so no Liszt for me.


Mel

YD, yeah I thought I'd learn "Feux Follets" a couple days beforehand.

YD,
Stephen Hough. I don't have any of the Howard CD's. How are they overall?

Sophia

I'm not playing any Liszt in the next recital, except for the HR2, which I don't want to perform.

Apparently I've gone Chopin
Or at least Alkan.

I have a few, mostly for the older editions of the Etudes. The 1827 Transcendentals are way too slow for my tastes, but who can blame him? They're hard enough in their original form, but those second revisions are just amazing.

Howard's recordings are uneven; some are very good, some are mediocre, IMHO. However, it is a great reference library, as in "almost complete" Liszt recordings. For example, there is a first version of Hungarian Rhapsodies, that is quite nice and AFAIK, not recorded by anybody else,at least not completely. His Transcendental Etudes are not too good (either version), I have to agree with playadom. (But, again, who am I to critisize his playing of the pieces that are only remotely on the horizon of playability for me..???)

Some of the more melodic recordings I like very much, especially Schubert songs transcriptions (less Ave Maria, which was not up to my tastes). Erlkoenig is absolutely gorgeous!

Quality of particulat pieces aside, I have tremendous respect for Howard for doing COMPLETE Liszt, that was a humongous undertaking.

I see. Now, that leaves only a few hardcore Liszt fans to keep the recital from being Lisztless... Anybody has L3 ready? (not me, yet, maybe next recital...) I guess I'll go with the short Liszt piece; off to try to record it now :-)

I remember reading about these earlier Hungarian Rhapsody version thingys in a biography some while ago. What are these called? I intend to check out the Howard recording.

The earlier version of HRs are called Magyar Dalok & Magyar Rapszódiák, I believe it is Howard's vol. 29.

I confess I've been spending some time the last few days learning about the Transcendental Etudes, listening to them trying to increase my level of understanding of the music of Franz Liszt. They are so incredibly complex musically. Compared to Chopin's Etudes, Liszt's contain far more virtuosity (if possible) and considerably less lyricism - although the latter may indeed be a function of my own musical simplicity, and perhaps will change upon hearing them more often.

Liszt and Chopin are so thoroughly men of their time, so throughly joined together in the minds of many, and yet at the same time so different. Though each had a good measure of the other, it might be fair to suggest that Chopin was the Poet and Liszt the Virtuoso.

They were so different personality-wise too - the introvert vs. the extrovert, the serious vs. the practical joker, th straight-laced businessman vs. the rowdy drinking partner. Both men giants in the world of music, and supreme in the world of pianism... Both would have been a privilege to meet even just once...

gerg, I don't think Chopin was introverted. He loved partying when he was well enough, and was famous for his comic impersonations.

I agree it would have been wonderful to meet either of them - I have a soft spot for Liszt the man, as opposed to Liszt the composer.

An interesting point I'd like to make here is that you are probably right about Chopin being more complex in terms of musicality. However, Liszt's TEs, despite carrying a more virtuoso incarnations, have somewhat simpler, more accessible musical ideas and my 6-years old daughter may have just picked it up. I have played both Chopin etudes and TEs (and Paganini Etudes too) in her presense, but she definitely preferes Liszt, to the point that whenever we get into the car she asks me to play some. Her favorites are Mazeppa and Wild Hunt (#8, don't remember it's French name). On the other hand Chopin doesn't seem to move her as much (she had to survive through me learning the 10/12; mayby that put her off; though she asks me to play it once in a while :-) )

Anyway, I am diverging on a tangent here. The point I am trying to make is that Liszt is ultimately more accessible to wider audience, which may have added to his immense popularity in his time. Of course, nowadays the snobbish classical music lovers crowd consider themselves way too sophisticated to not enjoy Chopin's more complex musical ideas, ROTFL !