Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 3 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >
Topic Options
#1054051 - 10/19/07 07:55 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
gerg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 1651
Loc: Houston, TX
What I have to say here is limited to Liszt's Transcendental Etudes.

Fascinating that you posit that Chopin is more complex... I find almost every single piece of Chopin's with which I am familiar I can hum and in many cases play almost verbatim in my head. In fact, the only exception that comes to mind is precisely the one you mentioned: 10/2 - and even that paints a wonderful picture - perhaps a rabbit roaming around a dark forest. Liszt's music similarly paints brilliant imagery.

I can hum the theme that comes and goes, usually in the bass registers, in TE #10 "Appassionata", but it is otherwise so complex otherwise that, while quite an enjoyable listen, its themes are not readily pigeonholed into an easily-defineable melody by my ear.

Now, is that a product simply of my having more exposure to Chopin's music esp. at an early age than that of Liszt? (This excepts Lizst's extremely popular works like Liebestraum, HR2, of course, which virtually everyone has heard; my phone plays Liebestraum). Or are perhaps the Liszt TEs a bad example of lyricism? Is that, perhaps, what makes then "Transcendental"? After all, the HR's do have distinct melodies... I tried to compare apples to apples, etudes to etudes in this case.

FWIW my appreciation of Chopin is genuine and heartfelt. No snobbery here. I would like to acquire an analogous appreciation for Franz Liszt.
_________________________
http://www.ecital.net
Wikicital: A collaborative effort to build a knowledgebase of classical music history combined with examples. Your chance to both perform and write...

Don't click here!

Top
(ads P/S)

Sauter Pianos

#1054052 - 10/19/07 08:42 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
YD Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 590
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Gerg:

Wow, we definitely have very different understanding of TEs! For me the melodic part of TEs is extremely simple, almost bordering on trivial. It is an ornametation of the themes and harmonization that is extremely complex. A great example is my favorite, #12, where the theme is a very lovely, but trivial Db-C-Bb-A-Bb-Eb with responce Gb-F-Ab-Db-C-Bb. The harmonization and the fill of tremolos is, however, incredibly intricate. My 6-year old hums the opening melodic line from #8 whenever she is about to do something wild (great for me as a signal that something nasty is about to happen :-) ), so I take it it is pretty simpe too - easy enough for 6-year old to grasp.

Now, I am only saying that melodic lines of Liszt are simpler, the ornamentation and harmonization is pretty complex; and the pianistic skill required to play some TEs is obviously significantly greater that that required for almost any Chopin.

Could it be that your recording of #10 is just not very good? I find melodic lines kind of easy to follow. But I have among others, a rendition by Ovchinnikov, which is absolutely outstanding (I think he is the best interpreter of TEs currently alive). I can make an mp3 for you if you'd like that.

BTW, that comment about snobbery was meant as a harmless joke as indicated by (Rolling On The Floor Laughing) at the end. My appreciation of Chopin is also quite genuine, and just as you were, I was more exposed to Chopin music as a child. Still, I have heard more than one classical music lover mention something to the effect of Liszt being a piano basher :-), while Chopin never gets anything but praise.
_________________________
Yuri
FWIW; YMMV

Top
#1054053 - 10/20/07 12:01 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 3455
Loc: US
The more Liszt I've listened to (Lisztened to? \:\) ) the more I've come to appreciate and love his music. I think Chopin's music grabs people more easily and may be more accessible given its gorgeous lyricism and grace (speaking generally -- there are also pieces that are hair raising, powerful, shattering). I absolutely adore almost all of Chopin's work.
I also think that given Liszt's long life and huge output of music, there is more variability. But what depth of emotional communication and incredible range the man had-- symphonic poems, the huge piano literature he generated, masses, concertos, etc. Often people hear some of the more popularized pieces that have become cliches (Liebestraume, HR) and write him off on that basis, not having listened to a broader range of his works that show what a genius the man was.

Sophia

Top
#1054054 - 10/20/07 02:11 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
BB Player Offline


Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 2572
Loc: Not in Texas
After re-reading Watson's biography of Liszt a while back I've become interested in Liszt as a performer. I've just received Walker's three volume biography (I've got lots of reading time on my hands lately) and am looking forward to reading first hand accounts of "Liszt the Showman".

Something I'm curious about is how much his reputation as a showman was influenced by the performance practice and sensibilities of the time. For example, he was the first to not use sheet music during a recital and many considered this "arrogant and showy". Also, in a review of a concert he gave in London, a reviewer criticized him for breaking strings (easy to do on the pianos of the day) saying "this was a carelessness for which any 12 year old piano student would be taken to task".

To use an analogy, I recall a long time ago when Michael Jackson was touring promoting his "Thriller" album and came to our town. Naturally, he did his now-ubiquitous "crotch grab" which was dutifully caricatured in the local paper along with a review (by the elderly music critic) that would make one think he spent the entire performance with his hand on his crotch. I asked someone who was there about it and he said he'd done it once or twice at most. The point being that it was new and shocking at the time so much was made about it but someone reading that review 100 years from now would surely come away with a false impression.

As a result, I wonder if the cartoons of pianos breaking and dust flying under Liszt's hands and him staring up into the heavens don't have more than a little exaggeration in them influenced by the sensibilities of the day.

I wonder how his showmanship would be perceived today relative to say Lang Lang or some of the other more "expressive" artists?
_________________________
Greg

Top
#1054055 - 10/21/07 01:14 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 3455
Loc: US
Hi Greg,
You have a treat in store for you in embarking on the three volumes of Watson on Liszt. It's an impressive work of scholarship and great writing-- reads like a novel.
You make some great points although the idea of comparing Liszt playing to Jackson's crotch grabbing is uh, not one I might have come up with myself. But he certainly "broke the mold" when it came to the performance practice of the time. Accounts of his playing from other musicians talk about the emotional communicative power of his playing.
Have fun !
Sophia

Top
#1054056 - 10/21/07 01:24 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
Beethoven Fan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/06/07
Posts: 191
Just throwing this out there, but I do recall reading somewhere, not quite sure where, that one critic compared Liszt's antics of playing to an epileptic seizure at the piano.

Top
#1054057 - 10/21/07 01:43 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
playadom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Jersey
 Quote:
Originally posted by Beethoven Fan:
Just throwing this out there, but I do recall reading somewhere, not quite sure where, that one critic compared Liszt's antics of playing to an epileptic seizure at the piano. [/b]
That sounds *just* like Lang Lang...
_________________________
Practice makes permanent - Perfect practice makes perfect.

Top
#1054058 - 10/21/07 01:52 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
playadom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Jersey
 Quote:
Originally posted by YD:
 Quote:
Originally posted by playadom:
I'm not playing any Liszt in the next recital, except for the HR2, which I don't want to perform.

Apparently I've gone Chopin
Or at least Alkan. [/b]
I see. Now, that leaves only a few hardcore Liszt fans to keep the recital from being Lisztless... Anybody has L3 ready? (not me, yet, maybe next recital...) I guess I'll go with the short Liszt piece; off to try to record it now :-) [/b]
Apparently we've got some very listless devotees.
_________________________
Practice makes permanent - Perfect practice makes perfect.

Top
#1054059 - 10/23/07 12:39 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
Agilita Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/03/06
Posts: 476
Loc: Missouri
I came to this thread rather late and just tried to click on the IMSLP sheet music link in the initial post. IMSLP seems to be gone? That's a real shame, it was a wonderful resource.

Top
#1054060 - 10/23/07 01:00 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
YD Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 590
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
 Quote:
Originally posted by Agilita:
I came to this thread rather late and just tried to click on the IMSLP sheet music link in the initial post. IMSLP seems to be gone? That's a real shame, it was a wonderful resource. [/b]
Which Liszt score do you need? I have plenty...
_________________________
Yuri
FWIW; YMMV

Top
#1054061 - 10/23/07 01:30 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
Lisztener Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/12/06
Posts: 921
Hi all!

My wife and I have been away to Phoenix, Az on vacation for a week. It sure is great to see that playadom has pumped some life back into the thread. I see that Greg, C7 Player, is taking on the three volume set on Lizt by Watson.

I haven't had the time to read all the posts since playadom's resurrection of the thread, but I will.

Just a note to say hello and wish you all well.

Lisztener
_________________________


Top
#1054062 - 10/23/07 02:03 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
BB Player Offline


Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 2572
Loc: Not in Texas
Well, it looks like we've all missed it but here's a belated "Happy Birthday" to Franz Liszt (10/22/1811).
_________________________
Greg

Top
#1054063 - 10/23/07 02:43 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 3455
Loc: US
wow, yes! Here's a toast to one of the greatest on so many levels: trail blazing composer, virtuoso performer, teacher, humanitarian, supporter of the arts...
an incredible human being and musician for the ages.

Happy Birthday, Franz!

Sophia

Top
#1054064 - 10/23/07 03:28 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
Lisztener Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/12/06
Posts: 921
 Quote:
Originally posted by sophial:
wow, yes! Here's a toast to one of the greatest on so many levels: trail blazing composer, virtuoso performer, teacher, humanitarian, supporter of the arts...
an incredible human being and musician for the ages.

Happy Birthday, Franz!

Sophia [/b]
I second your toast, Sophia.
_________________________


Top
#1054065 - 10/23/07 03:34 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
playadom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Jersey
 Quote:
Originally posted by Lisztener:
 Quote:
Originally posted by sophial:
wow, yes! Here's a toast to one of the greatest on so many levels: trail blazing composer, virtuoso performer, teacher, humanitarian, supporter of the arts...
an incredible human being and musician for the ages.

Happy Birthday, Franz!

Sophia [/b]
I second your toast, Sophia. [/b]
I'll add to the birthday wishes.
_________________________
Practice makes permanent - Perfect practice makes perfect.

Top
#1054066 - 10/23/07 03:39 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
gerg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 1651
Loc: Houston, TX
Happy birthday Franz Liszt! Thank you for making pianism what it is, for making F. Chopin known to the world, and for your own voluminous and excellent contributions!
_________________________
http://www.ecital.net
Wikicital: A collaborative effort to build a knowledgebase of classical music history combined with examples. Your chance to both perform and write...

Don't click here!

Top
#1054067 - 10/23/07 07:34 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
YD Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 590
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Boldog szuletesnapot, Ferenc!
_________________________
Yuri
FWIW; YMMV

Top
#1054068 - 10/23/07 08:05 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
LiszThalberg Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 3288
Happy birthday!

I believe the opus ten etudes of Chopin were dedicated to the birthday boy. In fact... I think i read somewhere that Liszt sightread 10/1 (the etude i'm learning) at full tempo the first time he looked at it.

Top
#1054069 - 10/23/07 10:20 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 3455
Loc: US
Hi Debussy,
yes, Chopin did dedicate the Op 10 etudes to Liszt, who was by eyewitness accounts a phenomenal sight reader.


So in honor of Liszt's birthday how about

Top Twenty (or more) Reasons to Love Liszt:


1. The first true "rock star" of classical piano

2. those chromatic harmonies!

3. The Andante of the b minor sonata...

next?


Sophia

Top
#1054070 - 10/23/07 10:29 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
BB Player Offline


Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 2572
Loc: Not in Texas
4. His generous spirit. He tirelessly promoted the music of others and gave numerous recitals to benefit memorials to Beethoven and to help musicians who'd fallen on hard times.

5. His record as a teacher. He never charged for a lesson and although many claimed to be "Liszt students" who were far below his standards, he also had a number of important pianists as his students.

6. His enormous energy. In Watson's biography he details the schedule from one of Liszt's tours and it's truly astounding. He covered Europe from one end to the other and gave hundreds of performances and this was back when traveling was traveling[/b] with no roads, going by coach, etc.

7. His musical impact. Although many of his transcriptions were later decried as being "vulgar", they were in fact the only way that many people could hear operas or orchestral works and did much to popularize the work of Wagner, Berlioz and others.

next?
_________________________
Greg

Top
#1054071 - 10/23/07 10:33 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
LiszThalberg Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 3288
8. Without him, there would be no public recitals or the thought f memorization (i believe before that it was considered respectful to use a composers score while playing it).

9. His sightreading skills were unbelieveable! [Look 2 posts up]

Top
#1054072 - 10/23/07 10:46 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
gerg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 1651
Loc: Houston, TX
10. His sense of humor! Liszt is reputed to have clapped wildly after a bad performance by an ill-prepped student after having made faces to the rest of the students in the group during the performance. The student would smugly take it in then face the guffaws of the others. (Not real funny for the performer, but for the rest, hilarious!)

11. His contribution to the technical aspects of pianism.

12. His influence in the shaping of the future direction of classical music.
_________________________
http://www.ecital.net
Wikicital: A collaborative effort to build a knowledgebase of classical music history combined with examples. Your chance to both perform and write...

Don't click here!

Top
#1054073 - 10/23/07 11:49 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
YD Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 590
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Oh, so nobody wanted to do #13? I'll pitch in:

13. His music. Really, from wild energies of Mazeppa to deep poeticism of Chasse-Neige, from complex texture of B minor sonata to transparent brilliance of Liebestraume #3, from the explosive optimism of Valse di bravura to deep sorrowness of Pensée des morts, his music always finds its way to the inner hearts of true music lovers.

14. What he did to the music of great composers that came before him: his transcriptions of Schubert song , Beethoven's symphonies, Paganini caprices, etc.
_________________________
Yuri
FWIW; YMMV

Top
#1054074 - 10/23/07 11:51 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 3455
Loc: US
15. Consolation #3

16. His larger than life spirit and charisma

17. As a young man, he was incredibly handsome!

Top
#1054075 - 10/25/07 12:19 AM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 3455
Loc: US
18. He gave up a fabulously successful career as a touring virtuoso performer to devote himself to composing and teaching.

next?

Top
#1054076 - 10/25/07 12:28 AM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
19. He created a LisztAddict \:D

Top
#1054077 - 10/25/07 06:54 AM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
playadom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Jersey
20. Alkan!
_________________________
Practice makes permanent - Perfect practice makes perfect.

Top
#1054078 - 10/29/07 04:08 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
nutchai Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 227
Loc: Australia, Western Australia
I'm a big fan of Liszt followed closely by F. Chopin. On the first page a few posters mentioned Evegny Kissin (sorry if i got it wrong) performing La Campanella.

Here's another youtube video of Liszt's 'La Campanella' performed by Yundi Li.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEnfZjqMSy0

I feel that his interpretation is better than Kissin's (don't hurt me! \:\( ) simply because it doesn't sound as rushed i suppose. Anybody would like to refute/support this claim?

Cheers

P.S: Gotta love this Liszt thread! Thanks for bringing up my favourite composer \:D

For those who are wondering who Yundi Li is (this is for the fans of Chopin) he was the youngest child ever to win the International Chopin Competition held at Warsaw(?) every year!
_________________________
nUtChAi

Kawai K-5

"You are the music while the music lasts" - T.S. Eliot (1888 - 1965)

Top
#1054079 - 10/29/07 08:34 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
Lisztener Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/12/06
Posts: 921
nUtChAi,

I am quite taken by Yundi Li to the extent that he is my next favorite concert pianist behind Evgeny Kissin. I own two DVDs of Yundi Li; the first, his 2000 win of the Chopin competition, 2nd, Yundi Li Live in Concert. To compare with these I have the Kissin DVD, "The Gift of Music".

I listened to his performance from your link to YouTube and must admit his performance is breathtaking and trying to choose a favorite performance between the two is too difficult for me to attempt. It's like trying to compare two like diamonds of equal weight and brilliance cut by two different jewelers. For this performance I concede to equality but no more. Each is great. I hate to equivocate because I admire both performers immensely. My vote for the greatest living concert pianist still goes to Evgeny Kissin.

Congratulations on joining the forums! You will find much stimulating conversation about both of the romantic titans here and elsewhere. Enjoy your journey and welcome to the best forum on the Internet. If interested, feel free to contribute a performance in the upcoming (November) ABF piano recital. As the time draws near you will see a post from Monica K. on how to enter. It's great fun and you'll hear much beautiful music from all levels of play.

Enjoy,

Regards,

Lisztener
_________________________


Top
#1054080 - 10/29/07 08:42 PM Re: ABF Liszt Devotees Society
nutchai Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 227
Loc: Australia, Western Australia
Thanks Lisztener \:\)

I would consider joining in the performance but I'm all the way in Australia \:\(

Maybe I could've played Liebestraum Nr.3...

Will there be a video recording of the performances?

And this forum is great \:\) They've made me feel very welcomed.

nutchai
_________________________
nUtChAi

Kawai K-5

"You are the music while the music lasts" - T.S. Eliot (1888 - 1965)

Top
Page 3 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
124 registered (acortot, aesop, 36251, Allard, Abby Pianoman, 38 invisible), 1346 Guests and 22 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75901 Members
42 Forums
156859 Topics
2304815 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
4K piano purchase question
by ConstantlyConfused
8 minutes 8 seconds ago
Do you use a method series to teach jazz? What series?
by Maechre
46 minutes 17 seconds ago
Tuning my piano with an app
by johan d
Today at 03:14 AM
Tuning a piano
by johan d
Today at 02:14 AM
Yamaha CLP-430 or Roland RP-401?
by masterboy
Today at 01:22 AM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission