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#1055082 - 09/05/06 08:32 PM If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
193866 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 777
Loc: Manassas,Va
Dear Members...If you were Mozart right now and heard someone play your very favorite piano composition that you composed yourself... not as you intended... but... with their own creative style...Would you be offended or pleased? Sandy B
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Sandra M. Boletchek 08/02/06

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#1055083 - 09/05/06 09:10 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
Mozart probably wouldn't mind. Chopin would be gritting his teeth.
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Slow down and do it right.

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#1055084 - 09/06/06 10:29 AM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
Frycek:

Remember when one of Chopin's students was playing a certain Chopin composition.

When the student finished, Chopin said something like: "Well, I wouldn't have played it that way, but you should play it as you feel it."

This one sentence is the only thing that keeps me going when learning/playing Chopin. I don't always pay attention to the tempo, or the other markings. But I do play attention to how I sense the music should sound...to that inner voice. \:\)

Yeah, Chopin probably wouldn't be too happy about it. But I hope he will understand and not throw anything at me.

As far as Mozart... I couldn't care less. ;\)

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#1055085 - 09/06/06 10:46 AM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
gmm1 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1674
Loc: Spokane WA
I would hope that any genius would appreciate any attempt by a novice to understand music beyond his/her abilities or talent. They may point out areas where the student is missing the musical point, but I think everyone, including genuises, would accept and enjoy the efforts of others to reach and broaden understanding.

Now, those who play with authority and arrogance, all bets are off. To say "this is my best effort" is much different than "this is how it should be". I fear there would be no tolerance with those who profess to know.

I believe most composers would say "take this and make it your own, but remember, it is mine in the end".
_________________________
"There is nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself." Johann Sebastian Bach/Gyro

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#1055086 - 09/06/06 11:05 AM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
CC2 and Chopin lover Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 1981
I find it really interesting how the music world seems to have a double standard when it comes to this issue. In the realm of, what might be called, "non serious" music, it is actually a tribute to the original composer to perform their composition in a way never even imagined by them. A great example would be Joe Cocker's version of the Beatles "A Little Help from My Friends". How many people have performed Burt Bacharach's music over the years in totally different styles. Jazz Albums abound around Christmas time with "jazzed up" versions of the holiday classics by people like Dave Grusin and Kenny G. In all these examples, all the praise is heaped upon the performer for their "genius" and originality of interpretation. So why so diifferent with Classical music, might I ask? Are the Beatles any less geniuses, in their own realm, as Mozart was in his? If not, why is it an afront to one and not the other? Understand here, I AM NOT, trying to compare popular music to classical in any other way than how it relates to this particular subject. Maybe the answer lies in the number of tighta**es and snobs that pervade one over the other? Just a provoking thought on my part.
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#1055087 - 09/06/06 11:14 AM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
funburger Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 1417
i dont know mozart, but changing a style of a song lets say taking classical and turning it into jazz i think is wrong. the composer wrote it one way, and yes that song can be played and defined in many ways and played as you define it, BUT to change a songs style to another style i think is an abhoration(is that a word). i dont know the great classical artists well enough from reading what i have so far. if someone feels they need to change it to jazz to experience their artistic creative side, why dont they just create their own jazz song, and not chop up someone elses piece. i did play fur elise boogie and quickly threw it out as it wasnt art form, it lost something in the transformation that should have been there. so i believe you play a song or piece as you percieve it to be and with your own musical touch, but to change the style of it, not for me.
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If it ain't fun I ain't doin' it:)

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#1055088 - 09/06/06 11:15 AM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
Peyton Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2522
Loc: Maine
I'm guessing it probably depends on the composer. Who's to say. But in those days didn't many composers, Mozart included, add a cadenza for the performer to "jam" on? That to me would imply a certain looseness concerning interpretation.

As far as Chopin goes, there is that famous quote about Liszt playing one of Chopin's Etudes. Chopin loved the way he did it implying that it was better than he could do. That certainly opens the door for allowing other's interpretations of Chopin's music.
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"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
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#1055089 - 09/06/06 12:01 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
IrishMak Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 1614
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
 Quote:
Kenny G
That is assuming you consider anything there to be actual "music"....
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-Mak

1889 Mason & Hamlin screwstringer upright
Kawai MP-4 digital

---------------------------
When life hands you lemons, throw them back and add some of your own. Stupid life.

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#1055090 - 09/06/06 12:02 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
CC2 and Chopin lover Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 1981
Funburger,
I am definitely not advocating playing classical music as jazz, but, rather, an acceptance of a certain degree of deviation from the original timing or flow, say, adding rubato where there is no call for it in the score, as an example.
_________________________
Piano Technician/Tuner

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#1055091 - 09/06/06 12:11 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
rockpeter Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 607
Loc: Montreal Canada
Hey if Mozart or Chopin or Beethoven didn't want us to deviate from the original they should've recorded their pieces...... \:\)

Peter has left the building......


Peter
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Ok..Ok... If you don't want your Steinway give it to me !!!!

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#1055092 - 09/06/06 12:17 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
angelojf Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 742
Loc: PA
Heck, I'd be pleased if anyone played anything musically I created in any style they want. I'd be flattered.

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#1055093 - 09/06/06 12:20 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21246
Loc: Oakland
Mozart, like other composers, wrote variations on other people's works. Why would they not expect others to do that to their music?
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#1055094 - 09/06/06 12:37 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
193866 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 777
Loc: Manassas,Va
Thank all of you so much for all your posts...I learn from all of you...I would love to hear some of you play...I have no speakers now for several months...Hopefully soon..Grandma Sandy B
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Sandra M. Boletchek 08/02/06

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#1055095 - 09/06/06 12:43 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
Monica K. Online   blank

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17746
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
If you check out the "Let's Ask David Nevue a Lot of Questions" thread, you'll see that somebody asked him that very question: How does it make him feel to hear others perform his work? His reply, as I recall, was very politely phrased but indicated that it took him off guard, because people inevitably play it differently than he does, and he has a template in his mind regarding how it's supposed to sound...

But in the final analysis, musicians want their work to be heard and performed, so at least on one level I imagine it would make them feel good... or at least better than the alternative of nobody performing it at all. ;\)
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#1055096 - 09/06/06 01:04 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
Peyton Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2522
Loc: Maine
 Quote:
Originally posted by rockpeter:
Hey if Mozart or Chopin or Beethoven didn't want us to deviate from the original they should've recorded their pieces...... \:\)

Peter has left the building......


Peter [/b]
Damn right!! \:D
_________________________
"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
www.youtube.com/Biffer5
www.peytonart.com


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#1055097 - 09/06/06 01:41 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
 Quote:
Originally posted by Peyton:

As far as Chopin goes, there is that famous quote about Liszt playing one of Chopin's Etudes. Chopin loved the way he did it implying that it was better than he could do. That certainly opens the door for allowing other's interpretations of Chopin's music. [/b]
Then there's the other famous quote, Chopin to Lizst, something to the effect of, "if you're going to play it, play it the way I wrote it."
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#1055098 - 09/06/06 01:46 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
Peyton Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2522
Loc: Maine
 Quote:
Originally posted by Frycek:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Peyton:

As far as Chopin goes, there is that famous quote about Liszt playing one of Chopin's Etudes. Chopin loved the way he did it implying that it was better than he could do. That certainly opens the door for allowing other's interpretations of Chopin's music. [/b]
Then there's the other famous quote, Chopin to Lizst, something to the effect of, "if you're going to play it, play it the way I wrote it." [/b]
Well gosh, he should have just made up his mind! \:D
_________________________
"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
www.youtube.com/Biffer5
www.peytonart.com


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#1055099 - 09/06/06 01:50 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
 Quote:
Originally posted by loveschopintoomuch:
Frycek:

Remember when one of Chopin's students was playing a certain Chopin composition.

When the student finished, Chopin said something like: "Well, I wouldn't have played it that way, but you should play it as you feel it."

This one sentence is the only thing that keeps me going when learning/playing Chopin. I don't
always pay attention to the tempo, or the other markings. But I do play attention to how I sense the music should sound...to that inner voice. \:\)

Yeah, Chopin probably wouldn't be too happy about it. But I hope he will understand and not throw anything at me.

As far as Mozart... I couldn't care less. ;\)

Kathleen [/b]
I have a feeling most of Chopin's irritation at having his pieces messed about with was directed at virtuosi in concert who were trying to put their marks on his compositions. I imagine that toward a kindred spirit playing from the heart he would've been more indulgent.
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Slow down and do it right.

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#1055100 - 09/06/06 01:53 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
 Quote:
Originally posted by Peyton:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Frycek:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Peyton:

As far as Chopin goes, there is that famous quote about Liszt playing one of Chopin's Etudes. Chopin loved the way he did it implying that it was better than he could do. That certainly opens the door for allowing other's interpretations of Chopin's music. [/b]
Then there's the other famous quote, Chopin to Lizst, something to the effect of, "if you're going to play it, play it the way I wrote it." [/b]
Well gosh, he should have just made up his mind! \:D [/b]
When Chopin praised Liszt he was admiring his technique but he got irritated at Liszt when he started to embellish one of them during a salon performance.
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Slow down and do it right.

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#1055101 - 09/06/06 02:21 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
if i were Mozart, i would mind if someone else changes my genius composition into craps. of course, i would mind.

if you change a Mozart's composition by creating your own, i.e. using Mozart's theme but adding your own variations, then it doesn't matter because it's your composition not Mozart's. you can do all your creative composing as you want, but just don't call it as if it's still Mozart's but call it your own arrangement, or transcription or your improvisation.

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#1055102 - 09/06/06 02:25 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
funburger Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 1417
signa, you said it like a pro:)

that is exactly what my teacher said!!!!
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If it ain't fun I ain't doin' it:)

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#1055103 - 09/06/06 02:29 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
oh, thanks, and i think we're in agreement on this!

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#1055104 - 09/06/06 02:34 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
- Firstly, both Mozart and Chopin would probably be thrilled that their music is still being played 200+ and 150+ respectively - years after it was written.

- Secondly, as far as Chopin criticizing Liszt and others for their interpretation of his music: we don't really know what liberties they were taking with his music, so we don't know what he was criticizing.

- Also, the "stylistic" playing of piano music in Mozart's time is very different than the playing today - from articulation, pedalling, improvisation, etc.

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#1055105 - 09/06/06 02:39 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
if I were Mozart, i would indeed be pleased.

as to the question, i'd be delighted to hear anyone play upon my pieces, even a child just learning.
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accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1055106 - 09/06/06 02:54 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4690
Loc: Illinois
I can only imagine this...

but if the classical composers only knew that their music was so loved and treasured that it is still being played by thousands of artists over 200 years later, around the world, to packed audiences...

That, to me, would be humbling.

As a retired teacher, I often wonder if I affected the life or way of thinking of just one of the thousands of students I taught.

If only one...all those years of work would have been well worth it.

And Chopin admired the way Liszt played his etudes because Liszt had a powerful touch, whereas Chopin did not. Not that he couldn't play loud. He could and did. But basically his touch was on the lighter side.

However, he was NOT happy when Liszt changed his music.

Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#1055107 - 09/06/06 02:56 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
if I were Mozart, i would indeed be pleased.

as to the question, i'd be delighted to hear anyone play upon my pieces, even a child just learning. [/b]
If you were Mozart, you would indeed be dead. ;\)
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#1055108 - 09/06/06 03:03 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
no less dead than Chopin.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1055109 - 09/06/06 03:09 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5921
Loc: SC Mountains
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
no less dead than Chopin. [/b]
Hey, we could start a Dead Composers' Society.
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#1055110 - 09/06/06 03:19 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
dibbies on Bach
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1055111 - 09/06/06 03:35 PM Re: If you were Mozart would you be pleased.?
Peyton Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2522
Loc: Maine
Personally I like to think of composers being much more embracing of other's attempts. I always liked that story of Chopin gushing over Liszt's playing of the Chopin Etude. It showed a certain amount of humility. That is one thing (from the biographies I have read) that I admire about Liszt. He had a huge ego but seemed very embracing of others. From all the countless transcriptions he did of other's works to the founding of the artists retreat at Weimar (?) he struck me as someone that just loved music.

That all said, I'm guessing he would be happy with folks taking liberties with his works. Of course...he would also probably be thinking they could NEVER do it as well as he. \:D
_________________________
"One's real life is often the life that one does not lead."- Oscar Wilde
www.youtube.com/Biffer5
www.peytonart.com


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