for those who have taken or seen others taking the ABRSM (piano) grade examinations.. what's the fastest progress you have ever seen? For instance, reaching grade 8 from scratch in like 4years or something? what's the standard time gap between each grade that an average pianist should spend? i just started out.. just curious to check if i'm on track in the future..

It all rather depends on how old you are now, what age you started, your teacher, your motivation, available practice time, whether you already read music, etc. Info like that will enable others to make more specific comments.

By way of two examples, my better half started from scratch when she was about 14 and took ABRSM Grade 7 when she was 18. She already played the violin quite well and obviously knew how to read music. Then again, she had lots of schoolwork (O and A levels) during that period[1]. On the other hand, I started at age 6 and took Grade 8 at age 14. There were periods where I was more motivated and made more progress, and others where I seemed to be marking time a bit, so it wasn't really "one per year." I did start a bit slowly perhaps, and made quite a lot of progress once I changed teachers at around 10 years old. In contrast to Mrs B though, it was my first exposure to music notation. Also I was being not hot-housed at some conservatory/music school by pushy parents, just a normal state-school kid having piano lessons with the local teacher, so I very much doubt that this rate of progress is exceptional.

The important thing is go at your own pace, preferably with the guidance of a good teacher. It really doesn't matter at what rate you progress, as long as you are enjoying what you do and get something out of it.

-Michael B.
[1] She then gave up piano once out of school, and took a few classical guitar lessons in her 20s. She has recently taken up the guitar again (some 20 years later) with a local teacher, and is greatly enjoying it.

It took me nearly 8 years. I was a child though and forced to practice, so you could say I was doing it under semi-duress.

Someone who actually practised could do it in half that time. Especially with a good teacher.

If I were an adult starting afresh, I dont think I would bother with the lower grades at all. I would probably get myslef up to about grade 4 or 5 and start at that point. That would short cut the process quite a bit.

Dont forget that you will need to learn theory to progress above grade 5. Start that now!

Good luck

Adrian

okay.. just some background information about myself. I'm 18years old.. just started my piano lessons a few weeks ago. not under any stress, learning on my own accord. now waiting for national service.. so i practically have 24/7 to practise on my piano. no past music background, but personally.. i love playing PC music games.. so i kind of developed a good sense of rhythm by myself, does that help?

honestly speaking, the main reason i took up graded piano lessons is because firstly, i can get my certification, and hopefully be able to teach in the future ( a backup for my career ), and secondly, as time progresses, i'd be able to read all sheet music and play my favourite pop music ( that's my main interest actually ).

My piano teacher mentioned that for an average pianist.. it would take roughly a year for each grade ( till 8 ).

yup adrian, I wanted to take grade 5 straight.. but it seems pretty risky, isn't it? the fees aren't cheap.. my teacher's planning to let me take grade 3 next year.. and yeah.. she's teaching me grade 1 theory already..

PoStTeNeBrAsLuX : 4years to grade7 was impressive! furthermore you mentioned she had schoolwork.. that's way cool..

You may know but in case you don't know - there's an ABRSM forum for the students - you can ask your question there, too and get even more answers. The link: http://forums.abrsm.org/

Please excuse my ignorance, but what EXACTLY is is the ABRSM examination?

Specifically, how is the exam given, by whom and who is eligible to take it ...and where do you take it...whatever it is?

Kathleen

I took the grade 8 exam 3 months after I started playing!


Course I was laughed out of the testing room, someone even whacked me with a conductor stick.

I think they were antisemites.

Kathleen,

but what EXACTLY is is the ABRSM examination?[/b]

It is not just one examination... for instrumental performance there are grades 1 to 8, followed by three levels of diploma. There are also exams in piano pedagogy, as well as for ensembles, choirs, jazz, etc.

ABRSM stands for "Associated Board of the Royal Schools of Music," which are the following:

Royal Academy of Music (London)
Royal College of Music (London)
Royal Northern College of Music (Manchester)
Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama (Glasgow)

http://abrsm.org
"Welcome to The Associated Board of the Royal Schools of Music, the world's leading music examining board. Over 620,000 candidates take our music exams each year in more than 90 countries around the world. We also run professional development courses for teachers and ABRSM Publishing publishes a wide range of repertoire, music books and CDs."

-Michael B.

Thank you, Michael. I think I'll take a pass.

Kathleen

The ABRSM system is very well known in the UK and has gained increasing international acceptance.

Grade 8 is regarded by many as a pinnacle, but it isn't really.

The diploma examinations (the one that interests me is performance) are a major step above Grade 8. The grade progressions themselves are not especially linear (the gap from grade 7 to 8 is bigger in my view than the gap from 6 to 7).

The idea of the Diploma (also avaialble in teaching) is to demonstrate a professional standard. There are further qualifications above this.

A

"The idea of the Diploma (also avaialble in teaching) is to demonstrate a professional standard. There are further qualifications above this."

AJB: At what Grade can one teach? Is it 7 or 8

Can you jump in at any level or do you have to work through sequentially?

Do they welcome adult returners/beginners?

EJR

I'm so glad this came up. I was looking at a link someone posted to the ABRSM grading system of pieces, and the difficulty sure did seem to jump more between some levels than others. Now I understand it a little better.

Do many adults do this?

Nancy

EJR,

Anyone can advertise themselves as a teacher even with no qualifications at all, and none of the ABRSM practical examinations are considered an 'official' qualfication to teach. However at diploma level there are specific qualifications in teaching (and indeed Music Direction) as well as performance.

A quick look through the requirements of the teaching diploma would seem to imply that the DipABRSM (instrumental/vocal teaching) is intended to asses those who teach (or plan to teach) an instrument (or voice) as far as Grade 6. You are not required to have taught before, so this is an introductory qualification as it were. The pre-requisite for entry is a Grade 8 practical (or equivalent, e.g. Canadian Grade 9) in the instrument as well as Grade 6 Theory. So if one takes this and passes it, one could be considered to be qualified to teach up to Grade 6.

The next level diploma is LRSM, for which the pre-requisite is the above-mentioned DipABRSM (teaching) plus Grade 8 Theory. This qualification (whose requirements include video and case study sections) is considered to be a qualification to teach up to Grade 8.

[EDIT: And above that is an FRSM (teaching) intended to assess those wishing to prove their ability to teach DipABRSM performance pupils]

As far as the basic practical exams are concerned, one can jump in at any level, and miss them out on the way[1], as you like up to Grade 8; however entry for the performance diplomas have pre-requisites[2].

-Michael B.
[1] I did Grades 4,5,6 and 8 on the piano and 3,4,5,6 and 8 on flute, though at the time (late 70's/early 1980's) these were the only exams upto Grade 8 that they offered for wind instruments: these days they seem to have all levels from 1 to 8 for most instruments.
[2] I am preparing to enter for a DipABRSM this summer, a mere 27 years after passing my Grade 8 .

Im about to take my grade 8 abrsm exam in march and have been playing piano now 4.5 years.

I passed grade 5 theory and practical in spring 2004,then spent 18 months on 6 and 7 but not taking the exam but my teacher agreed I achieved the standard for 6 and 7 so rather than spend money on takeing the exams I have progressed to 8 and have took my time over 18 months for preperation for this grade 8 and now i feel ready.

I have no problem in learning the pieces and scales etc,but because I have achieved so much in a short space of time I will admit that my sight reading and aural do suffer.
Regards

Daren

Daren,

Best of luck with the exam. I see by your profile that you are all of 3 months older than me . Did you have no music experience at all before starting piano lessons four and half years ago? You certainly seem to have been very dedicated and have made impressive progress. Which pieces have you chosen for March, if I might be so nosey?

-Michael B.

Just one addendum to Michael B's post. I have not checked the syllabus (available in full as a PDF on line) but I believe that in order to enter grade 8, one must first have passed grade 5 theory.

A

Yes, Adrian you are right. One needs Grade 5 Theory[1] to enter for Grades 6 to 8 practical exams.

-Michael B.
[1] or Practical Musicianship or indeed solo Jazz subject at Grade 5.

Before I took to the piano I played arrangers for a few years and I still play them now,so you could say I had experience with reading treble cleff and chords for left hand as well as good time keeping.When i decided to learn the piano it was like starting all over again I had to go back to begginner books for piano.

The 3 pieces I am taking are as follows;

Allemande
Allegro assai
Impromptu

Regards
Daren

I'm not familiar with any of those, presuming they are the JS Bach, CPE Bach and Arensky from the 2006 list. I've been meaning to look into the JSB Partitas at some point, but his WTC has been keeping me busy for the past couple of decades!

I can understand that such fast progress could lead to a perhaps shakier grounding for the aural and sight-reading parts. If you feel that your pieces are looking solid, perhaps your teacher could set aside some substantial lesson time to work through some exercises on the specific aural tests that you find tricky: I never liked the singing bits, personally. Still, a lot of what is required can be learnt/fixed over a relatively short time with the right focus, I reckon, e.g. recognition of chord inversions, etc. Sight-reading is a bit more challenging, as you could get anything from an pastiche Baroque/Classical piece, to something quite modern. But remember that rhythm is your best friend: even if you do play the odd wrong notes here and there, at least try to play them in the right places

Cheers,

-Michael B.

Do you guys think its possible to get to grade 5 theory and practical in a year's time? its been a few months, and i'm currently @ grade 2 standard. I do my theory over weekday nights (3h/day), and only have time for practicals during weekends ( around an hour for each weekend ). I have lessons with my teacher on friday nights though. Is such practice sufficient for me to progress to grade 5? I do understand that its better to spend like 30min a day for practice, but I do not have the luxury of doing that.. ( personal reasons )

Just curious if you feel the need to take the exams for further education reasons or to help motivate you to practice? In my experience, especially with adults, exam achievement and actual playing ability are not well coralated. I am not necessarily against them (my children have taken dozens of exams in voice, theory and piano), but I don't believe they really demonstrate a long term commitment or for that matter a capacity for making music.

As for sight reading - just start with a grade level that you can play comfortably and then gradually work your way up. I'm not sure about ABRSM, but here the examination expectation is that you should be able to sight read two grade levels below your proficiency level (i.e. Grade 6 for Grade 8). If you do some sight playing every day, it eventually becomes a lot of fun and it is a skill that will keep you entertained your whole life. I also recommend trying to play by ear regularily. When does ABRSM start including keyboard harmony in their exams?

nope, i take the exams mainly for self-satisfaction and perhaps a career backup route.

As for sightreading, as the notes in the melody section jump too far apart ( >3 ).. i either play super slow or hit the wrong note..as for the chords i'll try to memorise within the time limit given. is that the way to go?

savvyguy - It sounds like you should discuss this with your teacher. In our exams you are only given a short period of time to prepare to play for sight reading, best used to get the rythymn well in mind and the key signature fixed, plus perhaps a quick few thoughts about fingering by looking at where you start and where you are going. Here you are also not allowed to touch the piano (or shadow play) before you start.

I am far from an expert, but I think the trick is to be able to focus as exclusively on the written page as much as possible, and on your hands as little as possible. However, I strongly disagree with teachers who block students from even seeing their fingers while they play, because your hands are within your field of view even when focusing on the music and you soon develop a sense of where they are even if your focus is higher. Sight reading is not a skill you can learn quickly and it is often one that falls to the wayside if you advance too quickly. Only learning a handful o pieces at each level is no way to fully develop your skills. Site reading is also built on a foundation of technique. If your scales, arpeggios, etc. are well ingrained in your muscle memory, sight playing becomes much easier because your hands and mind already have a 'memory' of what they need to do. It isn't simnple; you just have to start at a point where you can do it without 'cheating' and then work your way up. With enough repetitions you will likely have a 'Eureka' moment when it all starts to work - then you move up to the next level.

Know that the effort is worth it. If you are a good sight reader you will always be in demand.

Savvyguy

On another piano website there was an individual who used to post quite frequently who said that he/she had beginning students who he/she got up to the Grade 5 level in one year. For the students to get to that level within that time, they were given lessons every day for about half hour (I think). Therefore it is not impossible to get to the Grade 5 level within a year but it would require a lot of consistent practice of both playing and doing theory exercises.

Since you are still fairly new at the piano, I think it would be better to focus on acquiring and developing the appropriate skills for the level that you are at. It is very easy to rush through the graded exams whether it is ABRSM, RCM, etc. as if they were actual classes or grades at school. However if you proceed too quickly at the risk of not properly developing your piano playing and theory skills you may find yourself at an advanced level but unable to do the basics such as sight-read. My advice is to make sure that you have the appropriate skills for the level that you desire to be.

Enjoy your musical journey. It will last a lifetime. Exams are and should only be for a season.

Suzanne

over here in canada we use the system RCM (Royal Consevatory of Canada) which consists of grades 1-10 followed by a Diploma in performance(ARCT Performers) or teachers(ARCT Teachers).

Anyway majority of my present teacher's students all took 6-10 months to complete grades 1-6 and then 7 or more to complete grades 7 and 8 , 1 year + to finish the rest of the grades individually. For the dip's at least 2 years of study is reccommended.

Quite many of my teacher's students who started at 5-6 were already prepping/done with their dip exams by the time they were 12-15 but my teacher said that's not the important thing, the most important thing is to only work hard for yourself depending on what you want to achieve. There are quite many pianists out there who have had a later start or only had good teachers towards the end and have succeeded as well.

SCCDoug - over here, iirc, we're given 30seconds to prepare the sight-reading piece, and should be allowed to trial-play the piece before commencement of the proper exam.
My teacher did not block me from looking at my fingers, but I don't really have the habit of doing that. I almost always look at the degree of one note to the next, then try to feel for the key ( that's where the problem comes, because sometimes i feel for the wrong key! ) also.. she only mentioned that for sight reading, you just have to keep practising it, nothing else you can do to improve.. any other suggestions?

Musictuary - wow, having lessons everyday? Firstly, I'd be constrained by financial issues and secondly, I don't have the piano by my side, its only with me from friday to sunday ( for a reason ). that's why i only have more than enough time for my theory, but not on practical.
I'm wondering - why do you consider sight-reading as basics? for ABRSM, it will be tested for every grade, so this skill would be put to test also. In this case, there wouldn't really be any skill that's not adequate, am I right to say?

Amelialw - how is the RCM standard equivalent to the ABRSM standard? sounds like its pretty fast for the people to progress..

I do not mind putting in 100% commitment for this instrument, but the problem is, sometimes I just can't get a piece playing perfectly, then i'd be kind of ****ed off..

no, it is not. The RCM syllubus and examinations are harder then ABRSM. Check out some of the other posts about the RCM system.

One example would be that for the:

ABRSM Grade 8: 1 Baroque, 1 Classical and 1 18th C or 20th C piece

RCM Grade 10: 1 Baroque, 1 Classical Sonata, 1 18th C, 2 20th C and 2 studies

Sorry to disagree Amelialw, but playing at a diploma level by 12 years old, or even 15, is ridiculously fast. There is a famous case of an 11 year old from the 50's who achieved their ARCT, but it is rare for someone to get their diploma while they are still in high school. To put it in perspective, RCMT Grade 8 is considered a high school graduate level of study and recognized as such in most provinces. It is the typical minimum entrance requirement for a University music programme. On most music salary grids, ARCT is considered an under-graduate diploma. To expect a typical child (and a 15 year old is still a child) to be able to perform at that level is not reasonable.

I am not suggesting that there aren't child prodigies who can successfully move through the grades quickly, but it is the rare child who has the emotional maturity to take a bare technical proficiency and turn notes into music. I know many music educators who feel that in our rush to push higher standards down to younger ages we are cheating students of the opportunity to seriously explore repertoire in a way that allows them to fully develop a rich musical personality. One of the consequence is that a few years later they have stopped playing altogether. You need to let kids have a chance to be kids, to do as much exploring as they want. We never pushed our children to do more than one or at most two grades per year (albeit in multiple instruments) and they are well-regarded, successful musicians.

Sorry for the rant, but savvyguy, don't be in too much of a rush. If you take time to enjoy the journey, you will realize that the destination isn't all that important and continue to learn forever.

oh, my teacher's students all do well and are quick learners as she picks her students by interviewing and auditioning them...now you know why.

she usually picks students who are self-motivated or are talented and passionate in music

It is not a question of talent, it is a question of age-appropriate expectations.

Perhaps I am just naive, and should be putting this question to the Teacher's forum.