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Topic Options
#1060157 - 11/28/08 07:24 AM Pianomagic Voiceleading?
JJ757 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 14
Loc: The Netherlands
I am curious about pianomagic. I had sent an email to the teacher. But I dont get a reply. So do you know if Pianomagic teach you how to play voice leading?

Thank you in advance for replying,

JJ

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#1060158 - 11/28/08 01:49 PM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
mahlzeit Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1910
Loc: Netherlands
Hi,

Piano Magic doesn't teach voice leading (and in fact sort of discourages it!).

However, it isn't hard to learn:
http://www.pianoclues.com/2008/03/07/voice-leading/
_________________________
No idea what chords you are playing? Reverse Chord Finder Pro will tell you!

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#1060159 - 11/28/08 01:52 PM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
 Quote:
Originally posted by mahlzeit:
Piano Magic doesn't teach voice leading (and in fact sort of discourages it!). [/b]
What the Fux!?
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1060160 - 11/28/08 02:58 PM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
Ragtime Clown Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 684
Loc: Ireland
 Quote:
Originally posted by JJ757:
I am curious about pianomagic. I had sent an email to the teacher. But I dont get a reply. So do you know if Pianomagic teach you how to play voice leading?

Thank you in advance for replying,

JJ [/b]
JJ, you'll have a long wait - he has not replied to any of mine either! You have a better chance of one of his pupils responding..........

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#1060161 - 11/28/08 04:50 PM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
playadom Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1366
Loc: New Jersey
 Quote:
Originally posted by keyboardklutz:
 Quote:
Originally posted by mahlzeit:
Piano Magic doesn't teach voice leading (and in fact sort of discourages it!). [/b]
What the Fux!? [/b]
You win the thread.
_________________________
Practice makes permanent - Perfect practice makes perfect.

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#1060162 - 11/29/08 08:43 AM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
JJ757 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 14
Loc: The Netherlands
@ Malzeit

So Voice leading means playing inversions?

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#1060163 - 11/29/08 11:35 AM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
 Quote:
Originally posted by JJ757:
@ Malzeit

So Voice leading means playing inversions? [/b]
Ah..., out of the mouths of babes!
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1060164 - 11/30/08 05:34 AM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
mahlzeit Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1910
Loc: Netherlands
As far as playing popular music is concerned, yes. If you disagree, then please enlighten us simpletons.
_________________________
No idea what chords you are playing? Reverse Chord Finder Pro will tell you!

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#1060165 - 11/30/08 08:10 AM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
majones Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/21/07
Posts: 331
Loc: Deep East Texas Piney Woods
 Quote:
Originally posted by JJ757:
@ Malzeit

So Voice leading means playing inversions? [/b]
Ask two people what voice leading is and I bet you get two answers. Look it up in a music dictionary and I bet you never get an answer you can use. http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary/

But, yes, that hits it on the head.

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#1060166 - 11/30/08 08:12 AM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
Starting Over Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 1290
Loc: Toronto
What possible reason would Piano Magic have for discouraging the use of chord inversions? Inversions are a basic building block of harmony. We must be missing something here...
_________________________
Buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it.
Will Rogers


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#1060167 - 11/30/08 08:20 AM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
majones Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/21/07
Posts: 331
Loc: Deep East Texas Piney Woods
Voice Leading is beyond what is taught at PM. Of course IMHO[/b] PM just does not get into that area, and the discouraging remark -- the members become adamant if you deviate from the system or do not use the recognized language of PM.

PM's system is a good system, however, it has limits.

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#1060168 - 11/30/08 08:21 AM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
Studio Joe Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 1803
Loc: Decatur, Texas
I think "voice leading" means emphasizing the melody notes that are included in the chords and has nothing to do with the inversion of the chord. Chord voicing is different, and involves the inversion as well as spacing of the notes. In other words the spelling of the chord.
_________________________
Joe Whitehead ------ Texas Trax

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#1060169 - 11/30/08 08:28 AM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
Ragtime Clown Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 684
Loc: Ireland
 Quote:
Originally posted by majones:

PM's system is a good system, however, it has limits. [/b]
PM is the way that its founder plays the piano by ear. It may have its merits but it is by no means the only way to play by ear or the best!

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#1060170 - 11/30/08 09:37 AM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
JJ757 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 14
Loc: The Netherlands
I just get a reply from the Teacher !
And he says that PM does teach voice leading or am I getting it wrong?

Michael Anderson:

The smallest required movement” from one chord to the next = the study of chord inversions = ‘voice leading’

By contrast, the emphasis of PianoMagic is to present and teach a desirable, entertaining, beautiful and FULL sounding style for playing SOLO PIANO (melody, harmony AND rhythm – all at once). To ‘do it’, you first learn to MOVE YOUR HANDS over the entire keyboard, but at the same time, limit yourself to the minimum number of required chords…not the minimum movement between chord changes.

Although an understanding of ‘voice leading’ and ‘chord inversions’ is a by-product of the PianoMagic method, consciously applying ‘voice leading’ and ‘chord inversions’ too soon will delay (and often prevent) your success at playing ‘by ear’.

You don’t have to learn how to read music to successfully play accompaniment, but you DO need to learn how to play melody in order to accompany ‘by ear’.

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#1060171 - 11/30/08 09:48 AM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
gmm1 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1674
Loc: Spokane WA
Voice leading can be very complex. One of the better explanations (IMO) can be found here:

http://www.tonalityguide.com/tkvoiceleading.php

Ask 10 people and you get 10 explanations.

Mike over at PM (at least to me) suggested that I "put aside" my formal training until I "get it". He was right. I did not. He was right again....

If the OP wants to learn voice leading, it can become a study on it's own. It is my opinion that the parts of music and how it works gets absorbed by the learner no matter what path is taken, it is just a matter of timing.
_________________________
"There is nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself." Johann Sebastian Bach/Gyro

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#1060172 - 11/30/08 09:48 AM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
Ragtime Clown Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 684
Loc: Ireland
 Quote:
Originally posted by JJ757:
I just get a reply from the Teacher !
[/b]
JJ, could you please tell him that Tony would appreciate a response from his TWO emails?

That would be very kind of you.

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#1060173 - 11/30/08 09:50 AM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
Starting Over Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 1290
Loc: Toronto
Sounds like Michael is agreeing with the definition of Voice Leading as being the use of chord inversions to minimize hand movement from chord to chord. But he is also advising against it, at least in the early going, as it may limit your success at playing by ear.

I don't play be ear so I really have no opinion but this does seem to clear up the Piano Magic position on the issue.
_________________________
Buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it.
Will Rogers


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#1060174 - 11/30/08 10:17 AM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
gmm1 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1674
Loc: Spokane WA
OK, for what it's worth, here's what Mike told me about using inversions....

Inversions bring the notes of the various chords closer together (a form of voice leading for sure). This is good as it makes the transitions smoother, easier on the ear.

The problem when trying to learn by ear is the chords are too close together and it becomes harder to hear how the melody is using the notes of the chords (or not - long/short note combos).

So, play the basic triads to find the correct notes and chords until you can hear how they are used. Those of us with no or little "ear for it" will find it much easier in the early going.

I wish I would have listened (in more ways than one)...
_________________________
"There is nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself." Johann Sebastian Bach/Gyro

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#1060175 - 11/30/08 03:07 PM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
Seaside_Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2160
Loc: Blackpool, UK
...and of course you learn to play inversions in the beginning without even knowing it ;\) The big bonus comes further down the line when you do become aware IMHO \:D


Lee \:\)
_________________________
My Piano Journey Blog...Seaside Lee's Piano Journey...
New Piano Video...Learn To Play "I Dreamed A Dream" with Seaside

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#1060176 - 11/30/08 03:09 PM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
mahlzeit Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1910
Loc: Netherlands
 Quote:
Originally posted by JJ757:
And he says that PM does teach voice leading or am I getting it wrong?[/b]
He says it's a "by-product" of learning to play the Piano Magic way. So it's not being taught but you learn it anyway. \:D
_________________________
No idea what chords you are playing? Reverse Chord Finder Pro will tell you!

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#1060177 - 12/01/08 03:21 AM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
JJ757 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 14
Loc: The Netherlands
Thank you for all your reply \:\) It has really helped me ^^ I think I will sign up for PM, but I hav to buy a DP first... Just thinking about which one to buy...

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#1060178 - 12/01/08 07:20 AM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
Seaside_Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2160
Loc: Blackpool, UK
Hi JJ

There is lots of good advise over in the digital piano forum depending on whether you are thinking of buying a stage piano or a cabinet style for the home.
The most popular brands are Yamaha and Roland DPs but. of course it depends on budget. I have the Casio PX 320 which is weighted and has a lot of bang for the Buck and I like it and I also owned a Yamaha CLP170PE

The best recommendation though is to go and try them out for yourself because you'll know which you like when you play on them


Lee
_________________________
My Piano Journey Blog...Seaside Lee's Piano Journey...
New Piano Video...Learn To Play "I Dreamed A Dream" with Seaside

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#1060179 - 12/02/08 05:31 AM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
JJ757 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 14
Loc: The Netherlands
Really... Yamaha CLP170PE looks so nice... Really like it. But can only dream about it now:P
So..
because I don't really have DP experience I think it doesnt matter what kind of DP I have.
How do a PX 320 sounds like? Are the boxes good enough or have you to buy extern boxes?

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#1060180 - 12/02/08 11:25 AM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
Seaside_Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2160
Loc: Blackpool, UK
Hi JJ

If you go to my blog you can hear and (see and hear) how the PX 320 sounds. ;\)

Is the sound good enough? do you mean for gigging or just for playing at home??

For gigging I've run it though my amp/rig and it sounds very good but, I can also use my yamaha motif rack es with it and just use it as a midi controller for the rack and then put the rack through my rig and it sounds stellar!

For home use it sounds perfectly acceptable, even better through good headphones or of course I could run it through an amp speakers and a sub if I really needed volume at home.

If you are only going to play at home with no intention of taking it out on the road gigging then a proper cabinet piano style may suit your needs better

But the caveat still stands...go play on as many as you can before deciding because what I like isn't necessarily what you will.

And yes the CLP170PE is beautiful but, I had to leave it for the children to take their lessons on when I split up with the Ex (broke my heart more than leaving her LOL)


Lee ;\)
_________________________
My Piano Journey Blog...Seaside Lee's Piano Journey...
New Piano Video...Learn To Play "I Dreamed A Dream" with Seaside

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#1060181 - 12/02/08 02:45 PM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
JJ757 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 14
Loc: The Netherlands
Really... DOn't know what to say but...

anyway your lessons are really great!
It looks so easy, but it is not =P

So the PX 320 sounds like this with its own amp?
Or is it an extern amp?

BTW.. It's really nice your Improvising! I really like it! I wish I could play like you.. Did you learn it all at PM?

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#1060182 - 12/02/08 03:14 PM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
Seaside_Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2160
Loc: Blackpool, UK
Hi JJ

yes that was just the sound from the casios onboard speakers (as I say its best to try them out but if money is tight the casios can't really be beaten I had a PX 100 for 3 years and it was brilliant! I bet you could pick one of those up off ebay for little over $100)


Thanks for the compliment and yes I learned it all there. Some say I'm just gifted but, I don't think so? I'm just determined! DARN DETERMINED!!

Trust me I have played for hours every day as much as 8 some days but rarely do I miss at least an hour a day however, that's because I love playing I can't get enough! I don't have enough hours in a day to amuse myself playing my piano...and yet I am still yearning to get much better and am never satisfied with my progress!


regards


Lee
_________________________
My Piano Journey Blog...Seaside Lee's Piano Journey...
New Piano Video...Learn To Play "I Dreamed A Dream" with Seaside

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#1060183 - 12/02/08 06:07 PM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
DeepElem Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 366
Loc: USA
JJ757, I'm curious about something.

You started this thread asking about Pianomagic and voice leading. You received replies here and from Michael Anderson explaining how Pianomagic is not really concerned with voice leading or inversions but rather has a different approach. Then you decided to sign up for Pianomagic.

What were you trying to determine with your original query about voice leading with regards to Pianomagic ?
_________________________
-Buck
------
If you knew what you were doing, you'd probably be bored.
- Fresco's Law

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#1060184 - 12/03/08 06:25 AM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
JJ757 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 14
Loc: The Netherlands
Voice leading was my main priority to play piano. Not that I didnt find a course that do teach voiceleading, but I dont know what the results will be. PM shows the results of members... And I don't want to waist money for courses that isn't effective to learn.

So I decided to join PM.
Because I want to begin playing piano.
Micheal Anderson did tell me, "Although an understanding of ‘voice leading’ and ‘chord inversions’ is a by-product of the PianoMagic method, consciously applying ‘voice leading’ and ‘chord inversions’ too soon will delay (and often prevent) your success at playing ‘by ear’. "

If you know any courses that teach voiceleading and is helpfull, please tell me =) And it have to be "playing by ear"
Thank you all.

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#1060185 - 12/03/08 09:38 AM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
DeepElem Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 366
Loc: USA
JJ757, I think you will enjoy Pianomagic very much. I am still a member there and I am always looking to combine what Pianomagic teaches with more traditional approaches like voice leading.
_________________________
-Buck
------
If you knew what you were doing, you'd probably be bored.
- Fresco's Law

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#1060186 - 12/03/08 01:42 PM Re: Pianomagic Voiceleading?
JJ757 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 14
Loc: The Netherlands
How do you learn Voice leading than?

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