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Topic Options
#1061012 - 11/22/08 12:42 AM Re: Goodbye
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by -Frycek:
[...] there doesn't seem to be much point in continuing with piano. I will continue it myself however, in decent privacy, as my solace and release.[/b]
Of course you will continue—it's inevitable, so don't keep it private!

Each of us has a personal relationship with our practice of music, but none of us has to be alone in that. Everything you need is right here, where we teach, learn and share our joy.

I don't know [what else to say] that wouldn't seem trite, or patronizing, or inconsequential. Just know that I'm your friend to be called upon as needed. It's my honor and privilege to repeat those words back to you now.

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#1061013 - 11/22/08 12:53 AM Re: Goodbye
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1733
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
.
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D

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#1061014 - 11/22/08 01:09 AM Re: Goodbye
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 3489
Loc: US
Frycek,

I haven't been able to be around here much recently for a variety of reasons, but I saw your post and have to reply. You've had lots of great advice here but the other thing I want to say is please take care of yourself. You sound very down and I hope you can be kind to yourself and get some support. (Just read through this thread a few times!). I get frustrated as well knowing I'll never play at a really high level but that's not the point of music, is it? When you feel ready to share it again I think you've seen we'll all be here . Take care.
Sophia

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#1061015 - 11/22/08 01:12 AM Re: Goodbye
Bryan P. Carney Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/23/06
Posts: 148
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio, US
Dude, remember when I posted ~this~ last night?

I respect the feelings you are having because they seem to make me a better person.

I came to the conclusion I wasn't... ...how did I put it? Yes! That,
 Quote:
In the end I foundered on those rocks. I swore off the piano. I felt like a sham, a fake, and a delusional dilettante. I thought I was embarrassing myself with this silly musical affectation.
I don't know you at all so I must now be speaking to that part of me in you and you in me: I said, regarding musicianship,
 Quote:
The battles we face may not only be the difficulties of mechanics, the vagaries of the intellect's focus, nor prioritization; the foe which slays everyman equally is ardor. We can aim so high, even with the best intentions, that we climb the next biggest hill, to our peril, while Parnassus may be this pleasant plateau.

Ardor, the purely emotional will to be, the desire which burns brightest, is what is common, actually. It keeps mankind locked in the prison that is the paradise of intentions.
As they say to the drunk, the junky, and (as they should) to the artist: I hope you fall. I hope you fall hard. I hope it hurts. I hope it means something this time. Truly, there's not much more time left.

peace
_________________________
=====================
nil volentibus arduum
Do it for Fux' sake.
=====================

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#1061016 - 11/22/08 03:46 AM Re: Goodbye
Euan Morrison Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 1588
Loc: Edinburgh
Frycek, you have contributed so much to this forum! Your knowledge and passion for Chopin seeps through in every post you write. You have taught us all so much, pleeese don't go!

How about taking a break for a few days, or even a month? Re-evaluate things, but remember the wise words from everyone who has posted here so far.

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#1061017 - 11/22/08 04:12 AM Re: Goodbye
charleslang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 2084
I started playing two months before I turned 18, so I count myself as an adult beginner. No other music before that except a year of bell choir, which, I think, doesn't count for much.

I'm dedicating my recent improvisation to adult learners including Frycek. For me some of what adult learners feel is expressed in this piece. Some anger some frustration (but some beauty hopefully):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h37sLTCAgOk
_________________________
Charles Lang

Baldwin Model R; Hardman 5'9" grand; Rieger-Kloss vertical

Jazz, pop and classical

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#1061018 - 11/22/08 04:16 AM Re: Goodbye
Benny Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 44
Loc: Germany
Frycek,

I usually think: as long as *I* can hear all the weaknesses of my own play (oh, and I do...), then my musicality in my head is larger than I can express. So, there is some potential in the future. If I considered my play as perfect, it would be quite suspicious...

Please keep posting. I like your posts!

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#1061019 - 11/22/08 06:19 AM Re: Goodbye
PBruce Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 5
Loc: Malaysia
Frycek, if you don't mind, could you tell us what is bothering you that causes you to feel this way?
_________________________
Baby Grand Piano

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#1061020 - 11/22/08 07:05 AM Re: Goodbye
cruiser Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1172
Loc: Cornwall, England
Dear Frycek, since returning to the piano last year at the age of 56 I have often felt the way you've expressed. I don't know what - or who - exactly has prompted you to feel as low as you do right now, but please be assured that you're in good company here in the ABF with your frustration!

'Lacking in musicality'.... ah, yes that would be me me too! Except that I know the 'musicality' is in me just as I know - and I feel I know you quite well - it's in you too. Together, we will bring our musicality to the surface - just wait and see if we don't! Our love for the piano and it's repertoire is too great for any other alternative. Let's leave the virtuoso performances to the virtuosos. Our efforts are just as worthy.

and... forget the age thing. It's an advantage! \:\)

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#1061021 - 11/22/08 09:15 AM Re: Goodbye
Mike White Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 518
Loc: 90 miles West of New Orleans
Hey, I'm pushing 60. No concertos for me, but it is a thrill to make music from a bunch of dots on a page.
_________________________
My Recordings. Please feel free to comment or to ask a question.

Yamaha G3 & P-80 Digital

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#1061022 - 11/22/08 09:50 AM Re: Goodbye
DragonPianoPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 2368
Loc: Denver, CO
Frycek,

As Frank said: Play for yourself first, the rest is secondary.

Just remember that when you are ready to come back, you will be welcome back with open arms by many on the forum. We will miss you.

Rich
_________________________

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#1061023 - 11/22/08 10:02 AM Re: Goodbye
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3600
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
Frycek - sure, take a "break" for awhile - we all probably need that from time to time - relax and regroup your physical & emotional forces - reset your priorities and your goals - even if you decide you only or primarily want to play for your own satisfaction and pleasure (like many of us here) that's still a pretty lofty standard - in fact, the only one that really counts!

Besides, where else will you find so many people who are at once helpful and encouraging and yet have such warped senses of humor?

Regards (and expecting you to say the same to me when I make an impulsive "threat" to quit some day!), JF

P.S. "tough love" now demands you get busy on your next piece :p \:\)
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.

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#1061024 - 11/22/08 10:12 AM Re: Goodbye
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
if everyone here would expect to become a pianist of concert pianist level in techniques and musicality, then everyone here should just quit all together because it's just unattainable for many of us. but, hey, who cares, we just play and enjoy learning all the way!

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#1061025 - 11/22/08 10:17 AM Re: Goodbye
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
Frycek - we all have ups and downs on our musical journey. If we fall down into the deep valley, what we need is a break to recover. Then we can slowly climb our way back up. You have been pushing yourself way too hard on the piano. You need to cut down to just 10-20 minutes/day. Play only when you feel like playing. Play for your own enjoyment. Don't play to keep up with Ecital or whatever. And there are many nice simple pieces by Bach, Beethoven, Mozart that you can enjoy playing too. You don't need to put yourself through technical demanding pieces all the time.

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#1061026 - 11/22/08 10:23 AM Re: Goodbye
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10422
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Great story, Jolly. Nice attribute of the south, that storytelling!

Listen to him, Frycek.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#1061027 - 11/22/08 10:43 AM Re: Goodbye
wj3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 317
Loc: Salem, Or/Las Vegas, Nv
Frycek. Don't be so hard on yourself. We will never be as good as we want to be. Music and playing the piano is a long journey and there will always be that goal or technique or that piece that is beyond us that we strive to play and will never reach. I started from scratch at 60 I have been learning (very slowly) for two years. I realize that I probably won't live long enough to learn to play as well as some of the people here in this formum, but I will certainly try be get as good as I can be. As far as quitting the forum goes why not stay around. I am not anywhere near an expert on the piano but if I can help someone who is learning the same things I struggled with and I can offer advice then I feel that I am a contributing member of this forum. You, as you can see from the response to your post, that you are concidered a valuable member. Please stay with us.

Walt
_________________________
wj3

2010 Roland KR-115m, Yamaha clp-430
Working on Alfred Adult AIO 3 Super Special sorta song,Simply Joplin Bethena,Solace,Burgmuller


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#1061028 - 11/22/08 11:55 AM Re: Goodbye
Margareth Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 99
Loc: Estonia
I just want to show mu support to You, too. I have always found your posts very friendly and helpful, too.

Maybe you just need a little break.

BTW - who told you or where did the idea of "you lacking fundamental musicality" came from? And musicality can be developed, too and you've been real good at it.

You have made great progress so far! Keep it up!

I was very encouraged the other day when my piano teacher told me that if I myself enjoy what I'm playing then the listeners often will, too. And I'm so sure that you have had many emotional moments on your journey. Otherwise you wouldn't have hanged on for so long \:\)
_________________________
Attitude is everything.

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#1061029 - 11/22/08 01:18 PM Re: Goodbye
Ina Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/16/06
Posts: 109
Loc: Slovenia
Dear Frycek,

I don't know you. I agree with Margaret and many others, that musicality is something that you can develope. It's a journey... toward well being. Music can bring you somewhere else, up to the sky (and sometime obviously down down to earth and benath... ). Don't give up just because somebody told you something ... I mean... so what... we are not perfect.

I hope you find another teacher and enjoy your playing again. And again. And again.

My teacher thought a lady, who was 86 years old. All she wanted to do for all her life was playing piano. She got some instruction as a child and then restarted with my teacher at 74. She was not brilliant. But she was enjoying the music road.

I'm 41 and I know I won't perform for nobody. I know my limitations. But... with a little help from my teacher (and sometimes a kick in the posterior from myself) I'm progressing. And I like it, though sometimes I just wanna quit. And I think of MOYD, funny, but it helps practicing.

So, dear Frycek, I hope you just had a bad day.
_________________________


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#1061030 - 11/22/08 01:47 PM Re: Goodbye
kluurs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 3739
Loc: Chicago
Frycek,

You are such a sweet person. It saddens me that you've gotten hurt in all this. Your music is so much a part of you and your spirit. You have a great gift for music - and have shared it with others which is wonderful I've appreciated your courage in sharing so much of you.

What others think? - I know a bit of that. I have a friend who wonders why anyone would do anything if they can't be "competitive" - but that's not what music is all about. It is in finding solace or joy or humor - in it - it can be a deeply personal thing.

Don't ever give up that which is you - you are an exceptionally wonderful and gifted person.

Ken

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#1061031 - 11/22/08 02:45 PM Re: Goodbye
mdsdurango Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/04
Posts: 1755
Loc: Durango Colorado
Wendy and I had dinner last week at a local restaurant that has a beautiful old M&H centered in the eating area. The guy playing was about my age (55) and was totally fluent. He needed not even look at the notes he was playing and he could play requests without the music in front of him. As a player I listened closely and heard only two notes that I might consider "mistakes". He played fully and it was quite luscious.
Needless to say - He really p***ed me off!
After that evening I had to remind myself that it will be only what it will be for me. I have to practice very hard just to be average. I will not likely ever have that mans ability. But I will play like me, and hopefully that is not too bad.
Hey, even The Geezer Trio (three old men with one kids talent) has it's fans , , , ,Thankfully

In other words; Don't fret the small stuff. Enjoy yourself and play like you! "Musically" or not! I know a guy who sings like Bob Dylan with a cold, but he writes incredible lyrics and those make his songs spectacular.

Find your spot.

Mike
_________________________
WHAT???????
Yamaha S6, U5C, P120
http://michaelstith.com

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#1061032 - 11/22/08 04:21 PM Re: Goodbye
Woody-Woodruff Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 615
Loc: Coastal Mississippi
Frycek,
Just a recommendation, PM Apple* and talk to her about your issues.
Woody
_________________________

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#1061033 - 11/22/08 04:29 PM Re: Goodbye
Rosanna Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: San Francisco Bay area
Frycek,

As long as you enjoy playing, keep playing. That's all there is to it!

You aren't ever obliged to record, to be in recitals, to participate in MOYD, or do anything else. Having said that, hanging out with the PW family is obligatory! \:D
_________________________

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#1061034 - 11/22/08 05:19 PM Re: Goodbye
Damz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/06
Posts: 264
Loc: Montreal, Canada
I see that my message came off completely wrong, and now I feel like a horrible person. You know that I never said you lacked fundamental musicality, this is what you are telling yourself, maybe in an attempt to justify the fact that you're not progressing as fast as you would like... Why torture yourself like that? If indeed you're stalling in your progress, instead of focusing on the things you cannot change, like "innate musicality" - which, by the way, I'm sure you do not lack - why not focus on what you can change, like your teacher or even your mental state which seems pretty down right now and is certainly detrimental to your playing and everything in your life. And if somehow I'm the source of your down (or a part of it), then please realize that I was only trying to help and accept my sincere apologies, and I will refrain from further comments regarding you or your playing.

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#1061035 - 11/22/08 07:51 PM Re: Goodbye
Reaper978 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 1326
Damz, your first post in the revolutionary etude thread pretty well reflects the attitude of the professional music world when it comes to music. Evenness, clarity, and musical sense are all characteristics of good music, but I don't take these things that seriously anymore. Human beings can't produce flawless results, at least in the way we normally think of "perfection" as being without error.

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#1061036 - 11/22/08 11:42 PM Re: Goodbye
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
Originally posted by Damz:
I see that my message came off completely wrong, and now I feel like a horrible person. You know that I never said you lacked fundamental musicality, this is what you are telling yourself, maybe in an attempt to justify the fact that you're not progressing as fast as you would like... Why torture yourself like that? If indeed you're stalling in your progress, instead of focusing on the things you cannot change, like "innate musicality" - which, by the way, I'm sure you do not lack - why not focus on what you can change, like your teacher or even your mental state which seems pretty down right now and is certainly detrimental to your playing and everything in your life. And if somehow I'm the source of your down (or a part of it), then please realize that I was only trying to help and accept my sincere apologies, and I will refrain from further comments regarding you or your playing. [/b]
I think your initial post in that thread was unfortunate, and was thoughtless. It would help if we all remember that there are real people behind the pixels here, and while one shouldn't sugarcoat, one also shouldn't be dismissive and cruel.
Sorry to single you out, but there's too much of this happening at PW.
There, now I'm being direct. \:\)

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#1061037 - 11/23/08 12:14 AM Re: Goodbye
Oxfords Gal Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 1553
Loc: Jacksonville, Florida
Frycek,

I wouldn't take to heart any negative comments that might come from PW. As Phlebas, said there's much of this happening at PW.

The most accomplished pianist here offer great criticsm and couple that with words of motivation not put downs.

Dust yourself off, consider the source and keep on trucking.
_________________________
Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear, Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair.>>> Herman Munster

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#1061038 - 11/23/08 12:24 AM Re: Goodbye
Betty Patnude Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 4896
Loc: Puyallup, Washington
Frycek,

You said: "I just had confirmation of something I've suspected for a long time, that I am lacking some fundamental musicality, and that as I'm unlikely to develop it..."

That must have been a big blow to you and I'm so sorry to hear that. If someone said that to you, they had best be able to stand behind their words and explain to you what is missing and encourage how to go about fixing and improving.

Don't let someone rob you of your spirit and your love of music. It sounds absolutely thoughtless for someone to say that to you, which I am assuming might have happened, like a huge criticism coming your way.

Even if the greatest teacher in the world said that to me, I would qualify exactly what was meant by it and go about deciding if there was something I could do about it and how would I proceed. Discouraged? Yes, I would be? Angry? That too!

We need our music in our lives and the companionship and support of others and sharing our problems and troubles sometimes.

Because you have shared here, I think you will be healing soon, and any thoughts that you had of disappearing are going to be reevaluated by you.

One of my reminders to my students is that "Learning to play the piano is a big challenge, and you don't want to quit before the miracle that you are working for has been granted."

Purpose is all about investing our time, effort, energy, love, dreams, in the pursuit of something. We learn a lot about ourselves because of the ups and downs we face.

You have had a great turn out of people posting their encouragement to you. That is so nifty! Warmth and understanding from people a lot like us is a positive thing.

Saying good bye is harder to do.

Best wishes,

Betty

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#1061039 - 11/23/08 12:33 AM Re: Goodbye
Damz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/19/06
Posts: 264
Loc: Montreal, Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by Phlebas:
I think your initial post in that thread was unfortunate, and was thoughtless. It would help if we all remember that there are real people behind the pixels here, and while one shouldn't sugarcoat, one also shouldn't be dismissive and cruel.
Sorry to single you out, but there's too much of this happening at PW.
There, now I'm being direct. \:\)
And you are right.

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#1061040 - 11/23/08 01:21 AM Re: Goodbye
Larisa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 498
Loc: Philadelphia
One of the things I've found quite liberating is to say "This is me, this is how I play - take it or leave it." I came back to the piano at the age of 30 with seriously messed-up hands. I will never be a concert pianist - I have no endurance to practice enough for that. I cannot get the kind of flawless technique that others have. A cruel person, or someone who thought they were being "realistic", could just tell me to quit because I'll never be "good enough" - whatever that is. One of the more useful skills I learned, at the advanced age of 30, is that I don't care what cruel people say, and that I am going to keep playing regardless.

I listened to your recording of the Revolutionary Etude. You do not lack musicality. I think you should keep playing, and keep posting, and keep improving. That's all.

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#1061041 - 11/23/08 01:30 AM Re: Goodbye
Horace Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 505
While some people might lack innate musicality, nobody who enjoys and is moved by music lacks innate musicality.

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