Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1063684 - 07/25/08 05:50 AM Asking what the music wants
Jacob777 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/21/07
Posts: 103
The first time I hear a piece that I really want to play I always feel a deep contact with it and some sort of understanding for what it wants. So I start to practise it and it often loses that magical feel for big stretches of time as I focus on the technical aspects of it. Sometimes I am able to get back to that initial feeling but usually only shortly, and rarely when I am playing it myself. Of course it gets better and better but not quite to the level of intensity as when I heard it the first times.

Any tips on shortening that distance? Is it simply about asking the music what it wants more often? Or maybe just a function of what level you are at?

Top
(ads P/S)

Sauter Pianos

#1063685 - 07/25/08 06:06 AM Re: Asking what the music wants
LaValse Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 1224
Loc: Mumbles, Wales
I think that you have to disassemble it and develop each part separately (polyphony, dynamics etc etc) but hopefully when you put it all back together and instantiate it as a performance (even to yourself) it will be emergent - whole greater than sum of parts. If not I guess that yes, it's all part of the learning process and that in a year or so you'll be able to add another layer of nuance/sublety and get the result you're after...

Try keyboardklutz's recommendation - after the hard work as been done, hear what you want in your head and just make the piano do it...

\:\)
_________________________
http://uk.youtube.com/user/sailwavedev

Top
#1063686 - 07/25/08 06:07 AM Re: Asking what the music wants
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11656
Loc: Canada
I left behind the approach of feeling my way into music some time ago. That is, I still do so to some extent, but I have learned to examine the music and get at its meaning and how to bring it across through analysis. That analysis gives a technical template, in a way, which if I follow it creates musicality and meaning, ironically enough. Even better, once I've mastered the basics of playing the piece I get to work more and more on those details and blend them into the music. In this way the music gets more meaning instead of less.

Supposing, for example, that a piece of music is passionate. It may call for strong crescendos, or sudden dynamic contrast. You have to plan that contrast - play the preceding part piano in order for the sudden forte to stand out. You might have a dramatic pause for effect, or plan a pause that is slightly longer - how long? How do you end that note just before it ends?

These are all technical details that will help convey musical meaning, and they are things you must become able to do i.e. practice. When you work on such details which are specific and technical, but in a musical manner, then the music doesn't fade through familiarity - it gains clarity and it grows over time. At least, having done both, this is what I'm experiencing.

Top
#1063687 - 07/25/08 06:08 AM Re: Asking what the music wants
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11656
Loc: Canada
Or as Lavalse said in much fewer and better words .... \:\)

Top
#1063688 - 07/25/08 06:52 AM Re: Asking what the music wants
cs_carver Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/08
Posts: 52
Loc: Raleigh, NC
 Quote:
but not quite to the level of intensity as when I heard it the first times.
Or is this actually a non-musical issue, of familiarity breeding contempt?

I am reminded of a post-op glow I had once, thanks to Fentanyl, that left me astoundingly content with my life, in absolutely every detail. Later, I came to see that "content" was actually a choice, and a goal, and the drug only made it easier to recognize but I could learn to live that way. (which I have not been able to do, completely, but accept as a desired outcome.)

Therefore: What is it about listening the first time that makes the feeling happen, and what is it about the way you think about your own playing that gets in the way of the feeling?

However, there is an enormous difference in brain processing between listening to someone else and playing yourself. Could be that your brain is not able to feel the same emotions while you are playing. Does the problem apply to listening to recordings of yourself?

Was in an episode of House, MD, with an example of a piano virtuouso with epilepsy? who was calm when playing, but listening did nothing for him? Someone else will have to provide the details.

Top
#1063689 - 07/25/08 09:01 AM Re: Asking what the music wants
gmm1 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1674
Loc: Spokane WA
Jacob, you have touched on something here that I totally understand. What is it that touches us the first time?

Sometimes I think the study of a piece "removes" the magic a little, like learning how a magic trick is done.

Then, the other side of the coin....Have you ever been practicing/playing real slow, and find a certain note(s) combo/progression is pure and perfect? It just rings in your soul and makes you shiver? And, that becomes your favorite part of the piece, and when you point it out to others, they don't get it?

I take this as the trade-out for the "first time" thrill being lost with study....
_________________________
"There is nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself." Johann Sebastian Bach/Gyro

Top
#1063690 - 07/25/08 09:10 AM Re: Asking what the music wants
Donna R. Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 794
 Quote:
Originally posted by gmm1:

Then, the other side of the coin....Have you ever been practicing/playing real slow, and find a certain note(s) combo/progression is pure and perfect? It just rings in your soul and makes you shiver? And, that becomes your favorite part of the piece, and when you point it out to others, they don't get it?

I take this as the trade-out for the "first time" thrill being lost with study.... [/b]
Yes! That's a great description, gmm1. There are certain pieces I've really outgrown but still play from time to time just because I've had that experience with them.

Top
#1063691 - 07/25/08 09:14 AM Re: Asking what the music wants
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
 Quote:
Originally posted by LaValse:
Try keyboardklutz's recommendation - after the hard work as been done, hear what you want in your head and just make the piano do it... [/b]
Was it me doh? It needs to be done from note 1, minute one. i.e. it is part of the hard work.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


Top
#1063692 - 07/25/08 09:21 AM Re: Asking what the music wants
LaValse Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 1224
Loc: Mumbles, Wales
I was waiting for that after reading my post back \:\) apologies for misrepresenting you...
_________________________
http://uk.youtube.com/user/sailwavedev

Top
#1063693 - 07/25/08 09:29 AM Re: Asking what the music wants
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Hell, I'm chuffed! Hey, and no charge.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


Top
#1063694 - 07/25/08 09:41 AM Re: Asking what the music wants
LaValse Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 1224
Loc: Mumbles, Wales
\:\) I'll buy you a beer...
_________________________
http://uk.youtube.com/user/sailwavedev

Top
#1063695 - 07/25/08 03:46 PM Re: Asking what the music wants
ProdigalPianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 1049
Loc: Phoenix Metro, AZ
I think what happens a lot of the time is that we don't really work on the piece enough so that the technical aspects are learned enough that they can 'fall away' and we can really make what we hear in our head come out of our fingers.

We (I have been really guilty of this in the past) get frustrated and move on to another piece before we get to the stage where we can *really* play it like we hear it in our head.

My friend and teacher who's a PhD student in piano performance told me that all the music for her next recital will be 'learned' (memorized) and at tempo before the next time she sees her teacher (they're currently on summer break). *Then* they start working on it together!

Of course she's on an entirely different level but to me that speaks to the amount of work required to really play a piece...far after the notes are under your fingers and it's memorized!
_________________________
Adult Amateur Pianist

My only domestic quality is that I live in a house.

Top
#1063696 - 07/25/08 06:00 PM Re: Asking what the music wants
SantaFe_Player Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 607
Jacob, I think this is a normal part of the learning process. Playing an instrument is a fusion of your left and right brain. But the left brain has to take over for awhile so you can get the quantitative and technical aspects of a piece firmly under your control, before you can relax back into the right-brained, inspirational, paradigm. I saw this with many of my students and have gone through it myself with all of the pieces that I have fallen in love with and determined to learn and perform. It reaches a point, for awhile, where I am actually sick and tired of the piece (I call it my hate phase). But shortly thereafter, once it is technically solid and I can begin thinking about how I want it to sing, I fall in love with it all over again. My hate phase usually lasted a month or two. Maybe I"m more hateful than others \:\)
_________________________
SantaFe_Player

Top

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
150 registered (*windowlicker*, AaronM, 36251, ABC Vermonter, 52 invisible), 1356 Guests and 22 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75971 Members
42 Forums
157110 Topics
2307379 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Kawai ES-7?
by shndany
08/28/14 10:12 AM
Kawai MP7 - hidden gem
by Kevin Keys
08/28/14 09:21 AM
Paying to be a vendor
by Bob
08/28/14 08:39 AM
Does it get easier?
by Pover
08/28/14 07:10 AM
Correct fingering
by johan d
08/28/14 06:50 AM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission