Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1066112 - 11/21/07 12:36 PM The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
Filipiano Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 3
Newbie here, my 1st post, so pls. be gentle.

I have been with PM for a few weeks now, and I have had tremendous success with it, so much so that I opened the proverbial wallet and went for a Yamaha U-3 upright to support the piano addiction. Now I can play by ear many of my favorite old standards, thanks to PM.

However, human nature being what it is, man being transcendent, always longing, always hungry for new ideas, always questioning, always yearning for the infinite, I look askance at a competing program like Matthew Stephens' Piano by Ear DVD course, and I being to wonder...hmmm....what is it that he teaches that Mike could have possibly overlooked?

By reading old posts, I noted one big difference between the two courses - while chord inversions are anathema in PM, which strongly recommends playing only with closed left hand chords in root position, PBE emphasizes chord inversions in both hands, the exact opposite of PM's philosophy. So the question is, which is better piano technique - jumping great distances over 88 keys with a left hand frozen in root position, or using inversions to travel over relatively shorter note distances?

Will studying both courses with such diametrically opposed ideas result im my being torn apart by two irreconcilable approaches?

In any case, I am considering buying at least Volume 2 of Stephens' DVD course, if only to satisfy my intellectual curiosity, and perhaps add some variety to Mike's PM program and to combat the inevitable "sameness" syndrome. But since I don't need it right away, I'll wait til it goes on sale at his website or on EBay, where it used to be sold before.

I wonder what others think.

Top
(ads P/S)

Sauter Pianos

#1066113 - 11/21/07 12:53 PM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
mahlzeit Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1910
Loc: Netherlands
Hey fellow Piano Magician... \:\)

Even though I think about music using the PM "rules", I often voice my chords using jazz principles. In other words, I do what Mike teaches, but not all the time. ;\)

I don't use inversions per se when playing solo, but they do sound better when accompanying someone singing. But when playing solo, I like to use the whole keyboard so there isn't much point to using inversions then.

I doubt the different approaches are irreconcilable, but since you have only been in PM for a few weeks, you might give it some more time. There's no way you have already absorbed the entirety of PM-thinking and you'll only get confused and slow yourself down if you start along an additional path of thinking at this point.
_________________________
No idea what chords you are playing? Reverse Chord Finder Pro will tell you!

Top
#1066114 - 11/21/07 01:11 PM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
gmm1 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1674
Loc: Spokane WA
I failed at PM (my fault - lazy - impatient) and am currently on lesson 4 of Matthew's 1st course.

I am finding PBE much better for me, as I need structure. The inversion practice has improved my playing tremondously. Moving in and out of the black keys, touch, sound, positional awareness, and the general knowledge of chords has made me more aware of what things sound like, and it's easier to find the melody notes.

Now, to be fair, when I started PM, I was much more of a rookie and it was just too difficult to "hear" the melody. Now, I have advanced my overall skills from practice and can (at times) hear what neighborhood I need to be in.

If PM is working for you, then the structure Matthew offers may not be as helpful to you as it is to me. I would suggest sticking with Mike if it's working. Since I am still in the first DVD, I cannot compare the two systems yet, but I feel as if I am making progress and trying very hard to "not rush" (I own the 2nd DVD and refuse to even look at it until I finish the first).

In any case, I do not think Matthew's course would be a waste of money or screw you up (after all, by-ear courses use the same basic "tools"). Lots of valuable, usable information, and great support. I am happy.

(Keep in mind this is coming from a sheet music/method/lesson addict..)
_________________________
"There is nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself." Johann Sebastian Bach/Gyro

Top
#1066115 - 11/21/07 06:06 PM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
Rosanna Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: San Francisco Bay area
following this thread with great interest...
_________________________

Top
#1066116 - 11/21/07 06:29 PM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4223
Loc: Arizona.
The only possible shortfall I have against PM is that they will NOT permit you to use any sheet music whatsoever as that would be counter productive to Mike's teaching principals.

While (as in PM) I would much rather *create* my own composition as opposed to play someone else's, there are a lot of incredible piano pieces I would love to play but don't know well enough by heart (the entire melody/tune) to play by ear.

I can, however still play ALL of these pieces when I have at least a lead sheet in front of me just at least to see where the road is going before I get there!.

By using sheet music as only a guide, I am free to improvise at will while still peeping quickly at the direction of the original score while performing it. This at least gives me option to greatly vear off the road and proceed onto my own path or stay on the original course as mapped out by the original score.

I like options!.

Top
#1066117 - 11/22/07 05:20 AM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
mahlzeit Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1910
Loc: Netherlands
There is no Piano Magic Police, so if you use sheet music there won't be someone dragging you out of bed at night.

I have a couple of fake books that I play from regularly, to learn tunes that I cannot hum/whistle/sing (yet).

However, I did not use the fake books when I was trying to learn the Piano Magic principles. That would be counter-productive. If you want to learn to play-by-ear the Piano Magic way, you should play-by-ear the Piano Magic way. \:D

Besides, Piano Magic thinking also helps when reading sheet music.
_________________________
No idea what chords you are playing? Reverse Chord Finder Pro will tell you!

Top
#1066118 - 11/22/07 06:07 AM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
cruiser Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1171
Loc: Cornwall, England
 Quote:
Originally posted by Rosanna:
following this thread with great interest... [/b]
me too! \:\)

Rosanna perhaps you, like me, are considering giving this play-by-ear thing a go, to supplement the classical - in both respects! - approach?

Welcome Fipiano! Great first post, and very thought provoking

Top
#1066119 - 11/22/07 05:12 PM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
Rosanna Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: San Francisco Bay area
cruiser,

I have been considering learning to play-by-ear ever since I read threads here that prove (beyond my doubt) that it is possible to learn to do that without any innate talent in that department.

I actually have PBE Vols 1 and 2, but not having practiced intensely (for other reasons), I refrain to make too many comments. I can say that with piano experience, there is much in Vol 1 that comes across as very beginner-ish. (I watched thru Vol 1 in 2 sittings.) However I also have not practiced enough to make all the inversions of all the chords second nature to me. As for figuring out the tunes (right-hand melody), I was pleasantly surprised that it was not too big an issue. Even figuring out which basic chords to use (I, IV, or V) was not too big a challenge. So like Filipiano, Vol 2 is really what I would likely benefit from. (I have not watched that yet.)

Having said all that, I find the "traditional" approach of PBE a bit dull. In that regard, I am nowhere as good a student as gmm1. (I am sure gmm1 is building a very solid foundation in chords.) I am quite tempted to see if PM may provide a bit of "magic" for me. Very likely I will take the plunge into PM in Jan. or Feb.

The thing I find most surprising in Filipiano's post is that PM doesn't encourage using inversions (I assume in the beginning - or is it ever?) I always thought that using inversions would give much more varied sounds, and also facilitates chord changes by not having to move your hand all over the keyboard. (But Mahlzeit's post seems to negate this conjecture I have.) But in a way for someone like me who has been lazy about practicing all the inversions, but know the root positions quite well, PM sounds like it'll make things easy for me.

Well this post ends up having nothing to do with comparing PM and PBE - just my rambling -sorry!
_________________________

Top
#1066120 - 11/22/07 05:20 PM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
LaValse Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 1224
Loc: Mumbles, Wales
> The thing I find most surprising in
> Filipiano's post is that PM doesn't
> encourage using inversions

Ditto

Hey cruiser - you found your dizzy dog avatar after all... \:\)
_________________________
http://uk.youtube.com/user/sailwavedev

Top
#1066121 - 11/23/07 05:01 AM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
mahlzeit Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1910
Loc: Netherlands
 Quote:
Originally posted by Rosanna:
The thing I find most surprising in Filipiano's post is that PM doesn't encourage using inversions (I assume in the beginning - or is it ever?) [/b]
Piano Magic actually discourages using inversions. Not so much because playing them is "wrong" but thinking inversions slows you down and is unnecessary. In addition, you must learn to move your hand all over the keyboard if you want to take advantage of all that the piano has to offer.

"Piano Magic thinking" is thinking like a performer. You think about the music while you're playing, not beforehand. And while you're playing you simply don't have as much time to theorize so you have to simplify the theory into stuff you can actually use while you're performing.

It makes no sense to think inversions because they really aren't that special so there's no need to make them into a special case, and you can still get the same sounds while you're playing simple root position chords.
_________________________
No idea what chords you are playing? Reverse Chord Finder Pro will tell you!

Top
#1066122 - 11/23/07 05:39 AM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
cruiser Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 1171
Loc: Cornwall, England
 Quote:
Originally posted by mahlzeit:
It makes no sense to think inversions because they really aren't that special so there's no need to make them into a special case, and you can still get the same sounds while you're playing simple root position chords. [/b]
I really can't let this go without comment. Do you really believe this is how accomplished by-ear pianists play? LH chord inversions are absolutely fundamental in playing the piano beyond a basic standard, by ear or otherwise. If the LH chord is always played in root position then the music loses essential harmonic colour and often, depending on the RH content, can sound boring, 'amateurish' or even sometimes downright 'wrong'. If[/b] teaching to play chords always in root position only[/b] is PM's rigid approach then I for one will definitely not consider it.

Top
#1066123 - 11/23/07 05:40 AM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
text Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 73
Loc: Windsor, United Kingdom
Rosanna

I believe that if you find PBE too "Beginner-ish" because you have previous piano experience then you will find the same at Pianomagic.

I too have previous experience, albeit not classical training, I can read music and have a level of theory understanding.

However you really do have to put it to one side at the start of PM because its not about theory or reading music. I do believe that eventually after three or four months (depending upon your learning curve and practice time), previous experience becomes helpful.

There is no magical shortcut to playing by ear just as there is no shortcut to playing by reading music. You have to start at the beginning and spend time at the piano putting the principles into action. Which means playing simple songs just as most people do when learning to read music.

It is the time spent playing simple songs that is the downfall for most people that are already beyond beginner level in their conventional piano playing experience. A lot of people who join PM with previous experience just do not want to go back to that level.

I can liken it to learning to snowboard if you have been a skier all your life. You still have to go back to beginner slopes to get the basics of snowboarding before you can catch the lift up to the top of the mountain.

Cheers


Text

Top
#1066124 - 11/23/07 06:22 AM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
mahlzeit Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/24/06
Posts: 1910
Loc: Netherlands
 Quote:
Originally posted by cruiser:
I really can't let this go without comment. Do you really believe this is how accomplished by-ear pianists play?[/b]
It is how the teacher of Piano Magic, Mike Anderson, has been playing profesionally for the past 40 years. I don't know any other accomplished by-ear pianists, so I don't know how they play.

 Quote:
LH chord inversions are absolutely fundamental in playing the piano beyond a basic standard, by ear or otherwise. If the LH chord is always played in root position then the music loses essential harmonic colour and often, depending on the RH content, can sound boring, 'amateurish' or even sometimes downright 'wrong'.[/b]
"Depending on the RH content" (or context) is the keyphrase here. \:\)

In Piano Magic, chords aren't always played as blocks of stacked 3rds. You apply decorations such as arpeggios. Alternate bass notes followed by a close position chord create the effect of inversions. The right hand adds harmonic variety through the use of a special handshape. Finally, you can add even more harmonic variety through chord variations. Combined, none of this sounds amateurish or boring. (Although when I do it, it does often sound wrong, heh heh. \:D )

 Quote:
If[/b] teaching to play chords always in root position only[/b] is PM's rigid approach then I for one will definitely not consider it. [/b]
Piano Magic to me is two things: 1) learning to think about how music works, 2) a number of "shortcuts" (or better: "sleigh of hand tricks", hence the name Piano Magic) that produce an interesting sound without requiring years of study and too much brain power.

If you already know how to make good sounds then (2) might not excite you very much, but the actual playing-by-ear comes from (1) so that might still make Piano Magic worth it. \:\)
_________________________
No idea what chords you are playing? Reverse Chord Finder Pro will tell you!

Top
#1066125 - 11/23/07 06:31 AM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
text Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 73
Loc: Windsor, United Kingdom
Cruiser - there is absolutely no "rigid" approach in Pianomagic, you can take or leave what Mike teaches, its about a path of self discovery in your playing.

If you wanted to play inversions that's up to you, it's just not something that Mike teaches. Mike has developed a method basically that would seem to work in teaching people to play by ear, is it right for all of the people all of the time, who knows, probably not.

One thing is for sure its very much up to you what style you choose in your playing. However if you are saying that because there is no section on learning to incorporate inversions into your playing in Pianomagic you don't want to join, I would agree that is the correct decision for you.

cheers


Text

Top
#1066126 - 11/23/07 09:06 AM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
Rerun Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 583
Loc: Louisiana
Hi Cruiser,

I started playing piano in February, and I throw inversions in there from time to time out of necessity... to keep from getting 10 fingers in a pile on the keyboard. But, mechanically, I brought very little to the table when I joined PM.

I don't believe Mike is that rigid either, he just doesn't want to heap too much on your plate while he's working on getting your ears in the ball game.

But once he gets your basics locked in, and then starts throwing in bass rhythm patterns.... you talking about fun!!! Just to listen and watch that dude play piano was worth 10 fold to me. \:\)
_________________________
Rerun

"Seat of the pants piano player" DMD







Top
#1066127 - 11/23/07 01:02 PM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4373
Loc: Jersey Shore
I'd be curious to know what ear method produces what I call a slow mushy dragged out sound vs other ear playing that is just outstanding and has a clean non mushy sound. Or could it just be the level of the persons expertise vs their method.

Top
#1066128 - 11/23/07 04:49 PM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
Rosanna Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: San Francisco Bay area
Mahlzeit wrote
 Quote:
It makes no sense to think inversions because they really aren't that special so there's no need to make them into a special case, and you can still get the same sounds while you're playing simple root position chords....You apply decorations such as arpeggios. Alternate bass notes followed by a close position chord create the effect of inversions. The right hand adds harmonic variety through the use of a special handshape. Finally, you can add even more harmonic variety through chord variations. Combined, none of this sounds amateurish or boring.
Theoretically, I would would have believed what cruiser said about inversions bringing "harmonic color". HOWEVER having heard PMagicians play on this forum, I have found their playing to not lack such color! Whether one labels it amateurish or professional is a different matter. Perhaps Mahlzeit's further analysis explained why the lack of inversions can still sound good. Until I learn more of this art, the use (or lack) of inversions remains a theoretical debate for me, so I can't/won't take sides!

As for what Text said
 Quote:
I believe that if you find PBE too "Beginner-ish" because you have previous piano experience then you will find the same at Pianomagic.
I appreciate your "caution", shall I say. But I have to elaborate more fully what I meant when I used the word "beginnerish" rather sloppily. There was a mixture of things, not just the "beginnerish" aspect of PBE, that made me a little less enthusiastic. I can understand going thru where middle C is, scales, key signatures. That has to be the starting point. But in the first DVD (supposedly 1 year's lessons), one eventually would learn the root, 1st and 2nd inversions of C thru B maj, Ab, Bb, Db, Eb, Cm, Fm, Gm, Dm, Am and various 7 chords (not in that order) and some scales too but I can't remember that for sure. (BTW all chords are played in the closed position.) However for learning songs to play, it's only 4 songs (!) albeit in 3 keys. (As an aside, I don't know one of the 4 Christians songs used; but I knew this going in so I am not complaining about that.) So from my view the structure of the course really ends up using the same songs almost as a venue for learning chords/inversions. As one progresses, more interesting chord changes are introduced, adding ii, vi, and 7. All this time ornamentations are not discussed.

So my lack of enthusiasm comes from
1. too much emphasis on chords/inversions;
2. not enough learning to play-by-ear on the melody side. [I realize with my own initiative, there is nothing to stop me from playing around with as many melodies as I like. But I am talking about the lessons as designed.]
3. NO ornamentations at all after supposedly 1 year of lessons. [I suppose one can argue anything other than I-IV-V-I chord change is ornamentation...]
4. learning 4 songs over and over, eventually learning more chords, chord progressions, and playing in 3 keys.

On the plus side, I think the studious pupils would know his chords very well and can manage to play in 3 keys. I must add that the PBE course is very structured and clear in its delivery. So I am not complaining about the quality of instructions.

So am I being unrealistic with PBE (or any play-by-ear methods) and expecting too much? I don't know. But I suppose I can say I was expecting something different for one year's worth of lessons: much more practice with picking out melodies, some kind of simple ornamentations at least. From hearing some 1-year-or-less PMagicians, it seems like PM's emphasis would deliver results more in line with what I hope to learn in a year's time. Am I being unrealistic about PM - perhaps having built up certain expectations from the enthusiastic endorsement of some of its members?

Now I would love to hear from both PMers - and PBEers - about my remarks!! [Apologies about a long post, especially having said in my earlier post that I have not much to say!!]
_________________________

Top
#1066129 - 11/23/07 05:04 PM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
Rosanna Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: San Francisco Bay area
P.S. Perhaps after I try PM, I would be disappointed too, in which case Text's caution would prove true. It may be that I am suffereing from the "greener pasture on the other side" syndrome.
_________________________

Top
#1066130 - 11/26/07 11:40 AM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
text Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 73
Loc: Windsor, United Kingdom
Hi Rosanna

I can only comment on Piano Magic and not the PBE course, however from what you have described of the PBE course, two major differences between the courses appear to me:

a) Number of songs, in PM we are encouraged to try and play as many songs as possible, create lists of what we can and cannot play with the initial goal of trying to achieve a list of 25-30 songs that we can play, that we then enhance using decorations.

b) Initially everything we do is in the key of C, no other keys are used. This is to simplify the learning to play by ear process, more advanced students in PM are able to play in other keys but newer students (like myself) do not.

I don't think you are necessarily suffering from the "greener pasture" syndrome I just like to warn people that I don't believe there is a quick fix to learning to play by ear. From seeing new members joining PM with previous "traditional" piano playing experience it is apparent that many think that they can skim the basics because they "understand" the text of the lessons and therefore actually miss out on the most important bits that are contained in the first lessons.

This combined with a reluctance to apply the principles to simple songs means that those people who join PM with previous experience tend not to "get it" and become frustrated and leave.

I do think that people when listening to the likes of Seaside Lee and Balladeer should remember that they have been been members of PM for a good while now and that experience shows in their playing. I'm pretty sure that Matthijs has more or less dedicated the past year to the piano. So my advice would be to maybe not to expect too much in the first year if you joined because then you would surprise yourself with your progress !

I think PM is fantastic, I'm having a ball and I will say that you only get back what you put in.

Cheers


Text

Top
#1066131 - 11/26/07 04:19 PM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
Rosanna Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: San Francisco Bay area
Text, thanks for the response. Everything you said makes sense.

Now I have to apologize to Filipiano. I seemed to have hijacked your thread. I hope your question has been answered, re: whether you can be studying both PM and PBE at the same time. I know as far as PBE goes, Matthew the instructor does not have objection to students simultaneouly studying traditional piano, as in
"play-by-sight". That's not exactly an on-point answer, as PM is neither traditional nor play-by-sight. But I think Matthew is not so stringent as to tell students to only stick with his course alone.
_________________________

Top
#1066132 - 11/28/07 10:05 AM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
Filipiano Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 3
Hi Rosanna:

No apologies needed - I'm enjoying this thread from the sidelines just by reading other people's ideas.

They say if if you give Tiger Woods a broomstick, he'll still win any golf tournament, and that's because he has the right technique, and it doesn't matter what club he's using. Its the same with Pianomagic - the core material is not any more sophisticated than PBE or any other beginner material - it's the technique that Mike teaches that sets him apart from other lesson peddlers, because he shows you in great detail and in hands-on fashion what works and what doesn't, and the intense focus on the part that works will get you going in just a few weeks playing anything that ever came out of Gershwin, Cole Porter, or any other non-classical, pop piano stuff.

Other lessons are not so hands-on. For example, I have this Warren Bernhardt course where the instructor invites a guitar player and you are supposed to learn to play jazz piano by watching the two of them having a conversation. The same thing with Duane Shinn - learning to play by watching his dialogue with another musician. I mean, its like learning how to swim by reading a book. Not Pianomagic - Mike grabs you by the ankles and throws you into deep water, all the while holding your hands and showing you which strokes to make. And if Mike were a mortician and you lead him to the morgue, he'll extract the heart and brain and throw the rest of the cadaver away. Sounds morbid, but I just want to emphasize that Pianomagic goes for the essential stuff and discards the rest.

The reason I'm looking beyond Pianomagic is that there are embelishments or "decorations" that I would like to add to my already excellent (to my ear) playing technique that Mike taught me, but are not explicitly included in the formal lessons. It is possible that what I'm looking for is covered in the 15,000 or so pages of material in the members' forum, but since there is no index or table of contents to provide structure to this amorphous mass, all I can do is perform a hit-or-miss search. I know some people have tried to catalogue the material but its nowhere near complete. I'm supposed to ask Mike what I want to know about anything, but if I did that, I would have to ask him a question every day. And I don't like to bug people if I can help it.

For instance, I would like to add walking bass lines in my left hand in the tradition of Lennie Tristano, but its not covered in the formal lesson plans. I do a wildcard search in the forum but didn't really find what I'm looking for. So my feeling is rather than trying to find a needle in the Pianomagic haystack, I'll just find another course that I know will be compatible with Pianomagic and incorporate elements from the other course into my already proven Pianomagic technique.

Hope this helps.

Fil

Top
#1066133 - 11/28/07 03:25 PM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
Rosanna Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: San Francisco Bay area
Fil,

Your description/analogy of what PM does is most interesting! I also enjoy reading about your current "search".

I would recommend that you look into Yoke Wong's DVDs. Here is one link on the forum that talked about it. I have PMed several participants on that thread who own the DVDs, and they all gave me very positive feedback.
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/32/3783.html

Here is the link to Yoke Wong's actually site.
http://www.playpianotips.com/

I have looked at several of her free demos on the site, and am very impressed with the clarity, succinct-ness, and the demo. Short, sweet, informative. (If you look around a little, there are more than the 2 obvious demo links on the main pages.) I have also signed up for the free e-newsletters and they are consistently very good. I definitely have her DVDs kept in the back of my mind as a must-buy WHEN I get to your level. I always have a feeling with PM, one may come to your "impasse" and would want to look at other resources, and my sense is that Yoke's course may be a good one (for me.) Of course, I can't say if the DVD's approach is "compatible" with PM, which sounds like a criteria for you. Also the course is a bit pricey. I did email Yoke and she responded quite promptly, so you can always cross check with her about content details and approach before purchasing. I would be curious about your impression of the Yoke's DVDs.

BTW, I don't see why you can't post a question a day at PM to facilitate finding that needle in the haystack! Seems like that's what that discussion board is for, and that's how PM does things....

FWIW, here is the content list for PBE. (Scroll to the 3rd post.)
http://www.thepianobyear.com/bbs/messages.asp?categoryid=931&replyid=90999

From what you described, I wonder if the intermediate level content on Vol. II may not be something you know already. There is a Vol. III (advanced material) in the works supposedly for Summer 07, but I read that it's projected for Summer 08 now.
_________________________

Top
#1066134 - 11/29/07 05:18 AM Re: The PM vs. PBE Shhotout
text Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 73
Loc: Windsor, United Kingdom
Filipiano

The purpose of the forums is to take part and ask questions. Mike actively encourages it.

There are enough senior members that participate that can point you in the right direction. Most of the questions people ask (certainly in the first year) have been asked before and there's usually someone around that can point you to the answer or answer it themselves.

If it hasn't been asked before then the answer will benefit all of the members, so ask away I say !

Cheers


Text

Top

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
Our latest Issue is available now...
Piano News - Interesting & Fun Piano Related Newsletter! (free)
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
137 registered (A Guy, aesop, ando, 41 invisible), 1558 Guests and 30 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75609 Members
42 Forums
156342 Topics
2296211 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Yamaha P-85 closer to a Grand Piano action than any Upright!
by Paul678
08/01/14 07:22 PM
Do someone have a Sciortino Insta-COILER
by Olek
08/01/14 06:55 PM
Buying used piano for school district - need advice/cautions
by ChoralScholar
08/01/14 05:34 PM
Help with a leg!
by igirl
08/01/14 04:53 PM
Have you had to fire your piano teacher? Why?
by alans
08/01/14 04:02 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission