Welcome!
I will be leading a study group in learning the famous CPE Bach piece Solfeggietto!
If you need sheet music it is located here:
http://www.sheetmusicarchive.net/dlpage_new.cfm?composition_id=1595
If you would like to join please post!

List of Interested memebers:
Debussy20
palley
AdagioM
Opus45
Ishmael
SAS
Sleepingcats
Agilita
gabytu
[/b]


Goal of Group:
Learn and Memorize piece AT FULL TEMPO!

More information it come!

I'm in!

I've been working on it with my teacher for the past month.
I have it almost all memorized and am working on more control, precision and speed.

What metronome mark are we shooting for?

BTW, I am using the score in the John Thompson 4th Grade Book.

Oooh, I'd like to get that piece back. I'm in. I think.

This one is on my list. I'm in.

Lets shoot for 200 if thats ok with everybody.
We are going to get an enormous ammount of applause if we play this in full tempo in front of people.

The tricky thing is trying to not only play it at 200 (or whatever) but playing every note evenly.

By the way: we need to set up a time line for this peice

Lets say we aim to finish with full tempo in December.
1st page - full tempo - end of september
2nd page - full tempo - end of October
3rd page - full tempo - end of November
Polish and ready to preform - Beggining of December.
Is this ok???

Anouther question is pedaling.
I plan to use no pedal, i dont know about everyone else but when i play it with pedal, it sounds soupy.

Is anyone interested in an mp3 of this piece? If so, I will gladly upload it onto box.net.
Mike

Do so Mike
It is great to have an idea of what it is supposed to sound like.

http://www.box.net/public/cb4ilhvo1a

I made this by playing a midi file through my P-80 and recording with Audacity. I have no idea what is causing those popping noises? If anyone out there has an idea, please share it with me. It's only on the right channel.
Mike White

very good!
The popping noise (IMownO) is caused by the mic being too close to the piano.

...not using a mic, direct from keyboard to computer. I haven't tried defragging yet, that's next.
Mike

It sounded quite clean to me. I'm listening through a Mac G5, itunes and Harmon Kardon speakers. Maybe somehow, somewhere, the popping is removed?
Very nice playing, btw.

J

You should look at the wav form of the file in audacity (if you still have it) You may be able to tell by the shape at the pops what is causing them. If it looks like a peak in the signal, your cables may be not be carrying the signal well. If it looks like a blank in the signal, then it could be the same issue or possibly a hiccup by the computer where it is dropping some of the data as it comes in. Not a very scientific method, but might help determine the source.

This piece is oh so nice, but I'm not sure I am up for the challenge.

Still, I would love to try as I am really motivated to learn this one.

But Debussy20 is talking about 3 pages, and I only see 2? Is this correct?

DenCato - you are right
my book the one im using has 3 pages
the sheet music archive edition only has two

sorry for the mix up

I'm in.

Awsome!

Debussy20 I wonder if it might be easier to shoot for gradually increasing the tempo for the entire piece?

Perhaps something like this (?):
1st page - first week of September
2nd page - second week of September
3rd page - third week of September
Entire Piece - half tempo - end of September
Entire Piece - 3/4 tempo - end of October
Entire Piece - Full tempo - end of November
Memorized - Full tempo - end of December

????

yes your right,
a month per page is too much
It would drive us all crazy!

I'm at work (and going from long term memory, which is unreliable), but I seem to recall the third page was very much like the first page. If this is so, it will make this much easier to learn. I also seem to recall this piece being fairly easy to sight read at a slow tempo.

Working this piece up to speed will be challenging for me. I'm sure memorizing the piece will help, so I might also try to memorize as I go along (if I have enough time).

I seem to recall someone here posted a video of himself playing this piece on an old upright piano (i think it was Geek in the Pink?). It was pretty cool, he played it very well & looked like he was having fun playing it. Might be worth a search for that thread. It motivated me to get the sheet music.

Yes, it was geek in pink
Heres the link
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/32/2004.html

I've dabbled with this a little bit, so I'd like to get in on this. I don't think I can ever play it up to tempo, but we'll see!

I played this at a recital last Winter, but have become a bit rusty. I've always had a bit of a problem with evenness in some areas, but I'll work on it over the next few months.

Sleepingcats
(getting back to lessons after a rough 6 months of family illness and other issues)

Please count me in. All these learning groups are killing me, I joined too many and have too little practice time. But this one is in the "Applause" book I just ordered so how can I resist?

But no practice time this weekend. We leave this afternoon to drive a van load of boys to a karate competition in Iowa.

I'm not planning on playing it at tempo. I am, after all, an Adagio Babe.

But I'd like to learn the notes again.

At a quarter note=200, that would mean 13 notes per second!

I'll give myself an enormous amount of applause if I play this in full tempo in front of me.

I agree that a marking of prestissimo would be mm=200, but that is fast[/b].

Mel

I think it was Kreisler that said he played it at 150 - 160 and that was fast enough

What's the tempo of the version Yamaha G3 & P-80
posted?

Is that about 160 (I am afraid we are supposed to play it faster than that)?

MM=150-160 is an Allegro.

So yes, it's fast enough if the piece is marked Allegro.

But it is not; it's marked Prestissimo.

Mel

Thats just what Kreisler said,

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just stressing how fast prestissimo is.

Mike's wonderful recording is at a tempo of mm=120, or 8 notes per second.

Geek's terrific video is at mm=150, or 10 notes per second.

Both sound very fast.

The fastest that I can play a scale evenly, up and down 4 octaves is mm=160, or 10.7 notes per second.

Since a scale is the simplest thing one can play, I'm having a hard time imagining playing this piece at mm=200.

But it could be great fun to try.

Mel

Dannylux did you want to join???
I might have forgot to add you.

I can play the song at 100 evenly
How about every one esle?

I'm all over the place right now since I'm just getting back into the piece, so I'll take it slowly to concentrate on evenness and the correct dynamics.

I'll report back in a week or so after I recover from my nerve ablation procedure on the right side of my neck (!)

I'll start sometime this week. I'll first try to understand what's going on by reading the sheet with a recording.

Also, I first thought that this was a piece of the J.S. Bach.. It seems it isn't.. Who's this guy? One of his sons?

I'll also start this week or this weekend. I'm not sure what my current well-controlled-tempo is, but I'll test myself & report back later this week or this weekend.

I think we're supposed to get a lot of rain in North Carolina this weekend so it will be a good weekend for playing the piano.

Well, I brought it up! I don't think tempi are that precisely defined (even though you may see that number on your metronome.)

Wikipedia says:
"Can tempo terms be defined with the metronome?

Most musicians would agree that it is not possible to give beats per minute (BPM) equivalents for these terms; the actual number of beats per minute in a piece marked allegro, for example, will depend on the music itself. A piece consisting mainly of minims (half notes) can be played much more quickly in terms of BPM than a piece consisting mainly of semi-quavers (sixteenth notes) but still be described with the same word.
Metronome manufacturers usually do assign BPM values to the traditional terms, but these values are by no means correct for every piece."

Prestissimo is qualitatively defined as "as fast as possible".

I think MM100 IS possible for "Adult Beginner Hanger-ons". (No way is this a real beginner's piece!)

MM100 will be my goal for now.

Carl Phillip Emmanuel Bach or CPE Bach was one of many sons of Bach. One of only three the write music.

do you always do what the composer wanted you too?

I started yesterday. It seems it will be hard to memorize it.. Also, it sounds nice even when played slow.

But I'm not sure what's going on in the piece. Could somebody explain it maybe?

I'm having a problem. My problem is with the first measure on the second page and also with the fourth line of the second page. (This is on the two page version that's at the first of this thread. Mine actually is three pages.) How do you play this? I'm playing the left hand chords with my left hand staccatoing over my right hand.

We got back on Sunday from the out of town karate competition in time for me to go to hear my oldest granddaughter at a late afternoon piano recital. One of the older students played Solfeggietto and very fast, too.

I don't think there's any way I can memorize this. But that's not one of my strong points. I'll have to look at my score when I get home, I think I know the place you're talking about, but I'll have to look and see how I'm doing it.

It starts out with an awsome theme in c minor
then changes to g minor
then to f minor and back to c minor

Basicallly a I-V-VI-I movenment

Initial progress report:

I just dusted my copy of Solfeggietto today and found I'm able to play all three pages, mostly evenly, at less than half that speed Debussy....and, I'm embarrassed to say I'm not yet able to give much attention to dynamics & shaping, etc.. Most of my attention at this time is still on playing the right notes & fingering.

I'm setting my metronome speed between 60-70 for eight [/b]beats per measure. Once I'm able to play this more evenly, I'll switch over to a metronome setting for four[/b] beats per measure.

great!

I've been practicing.......but I'm having trouble with my even note values in measures 7 & 8, but I had that problem before. Does anyone have any suggestions? My 2-note slurs start to sound syncopated. Slow practice works up to a point, then it falls apart.

There are sections where I'm playing around 115, which is about my speed at a recital last December, but other sections need work.

Thanks a lot.

If it isn't too late I would like to join you. I learned this once, years ago, and would like to resurrect it. However, there is no way I would be able to play it at 200. It will be interesting to see what develops.

Gaby Tu.

This pretty much describes my progress! I'll keep plugging away. But I'm beginning to doubt I can get it up to speed!

I've finally started the piece with my teacher and I have to say it's much more fun than the pieces I've played before. Well, it might be too early to tell actually.. I'm currently playing 1/3rd of the first page:).

Glad you are letting me join you. As I mentioned in my other post, I learned this a long time ago and am looking forward to resurrecting it. Played through it this morning and am thrilled to find that I remember so much of it. It is much easier for me the second time around. I am just delighted about the way my fingers seem to know just where to go. However, unfortunatly, the mistakes are the same ones I made when I first learned the piece, so I will slow down, and learn to do it right this time.

Gaby Tu

Thought I would bump this up.

I'm going to commit to playing this daily for at least a few minutes.

My first goal will be to play it smoothly from beginning to end at some metronome setting. Let me quote someone from another thread:

(Dean, aka dk21208)
"Having the music playable from start to finish is always the most significant milestone for me with new music. I always feel like the momentum swings in my favor and the battle is downhill from there."

This works for me too. From that point, I can give proper attention to shaping the music, dynamics, velocity, and generally polishing it up.

Anyone care to provide some recordings of this piece in the development stage (slow tempo, mistakes, etc...)? I might volunteer if I can make time this weekend (or next, depending on how the weekend shapes up).

So far so good. It is all coming back to me after a long long period of lying dormant.. Got all the notes learned, and now am starting to memorize it. I am following Chang's suggestion, LH, the RH then Ht. Will keep you posted on how I am doing.
This much I know. I am not going for speed, but for accuracy. Gaby Tu

hmmmm..... almost a almost 2 weeks and no one has posted. Have we all mastered the piece?

I was just thinking about this piece. I picked up some new Christmas music at the Brook Mays sale just before they closed, so I've been playing Christmas music! I know it's a little early, but I need to practice it now so it's ready over the holidays.

I need to get back to this one. What about everyone else?

Sorry I missed this thread when it first started. I've been working on the Goldberg variations and would have enjoyed this.

Peyton: The rest of us aren't moving too fast so I'm sure you could join us!

I'd be starting from scratch and I'm slooooooooooooooooooooow. But I'll take a look. It's all fun eh?

Join in Peyton, I'm on the slow track myself, in fact, we really only just started as a group. I started on this a few weeks ago, working on it sometimes 5-10 minutes/day, sometimes more, sometimes not at all.

At this point, I'm working on it with a metronome setting of about 50-55 (when I do use it). I practice this about 50% with metronome & 50% without. At some point, I'll start memorizing.

How's everyone else doing?

[Edit]
This is a schedule I proposed on page one:

1st page - first week of September
2nd page - second week of September
3rd page - third week of September
Entire Piece - half tempo - end of September
Entire Piece - 3/4 tempo - end of October
Entire Piece - Full tempo - end of November
Memorized - Full tempo - end of December

I wasn't really following it, but it just occurred to me that I'm on track in terms of being able to play this at half tempo.

My self assessment is that, in addition to developing speed, I need to improve on playing this more cleanly & evenly....and I need to shape it better (playing louder as I go up & quieter going down), etc..

You are definitely not too late! I'm not very far along, and I don't think anyone else is either. So jump in! I've been playing around with other stuff and neglecting this, so I need to get back into it.

I was running pretty smoothly at about 60 today, but the engine started to rattle when I pushed it up into the 70's.

I've got it 95% memorized and am working to gain more confident control at faster pace. I have been playing it about 3-4 times daily.

I've neglected it since I started lessons again, and we're getting prepared for the movers coming next week! I'll get back to it soon.

I have it all learned (but it is a repeat for me,as I really learned it some time ago), so this is in the way of a refresher course. However, forget my being able to play it at 200.
I will try to get the speed up more, but can't promise.

It is a lot of fun to play as it lies well under the fingers.

Gaby tu

Just curious, is anyone here seriously going to try to play this at 200 ?

I hate saying I can't do something as much as the next person, but I don't think I'll be a member of the Sofeggietto 200 Club. I might be able to stretch a bit and become ABF Certified at 120-140.

How fast are you able to play your best scales?

I know I can't play it at 200! I don't care how much I practice!

Easy Jeff... just play and record it midi and bump up the speed. Voila!

I have it COmpletly memorized and at 150

Wow! Debussy that is fantastic!

I am very impressed, and very envious too. I think I remember somewhere on another post that you are 13 years old (am i right?). Whether you are 13, 30, or (gasp) my age, memorizing this piece, and playing it at 150 is a nice accomplishment.

If you find the time and means to make a recording, I know I wouldn't be the only one who would enjoy hearing it (even if it is not yet where you want it to be).

Way to go Debussy!

I've been able to spend about 10-15 minutes on most days on this and have it up to the lower 70's on the metronome (haven't even bothered with memorizing it yet). If I progress at this same rate, I should be playing this in the 80's next week, unless I find more time, or my progression becomes exponential (wouldn't that be nice?).

How's everyone else doing on this one?

I'm young (13) and when it comes to playing fast... im the roadrunner. I can also memorize thngs almost instantly...

Thanks opus for you comments, but i have no way of recording...

Keep up the good work team.

Solfeggietto...poorly

Hi all, sorry I haven't been around much lately.

I kinda hate to do this for all you serious piano players, but for those that are just struggling along like me, I thought you might care to see someone else really stink up the joint. You've been warned.

:rolleyes:

sorry bout the birds =)

I thought that was well done! You kept the tempo even. When I learned this piece that was the hardest part. Not speeding up at the "easy" parts and slowing down for the hard ones. I still get stuck on mesures 5 & 6 and then zoom through 7 & 8. With your evenness, this won't be a problem for you when you speed it up. Good job!!

Oh man that was cool Naught! It's really awesome to be able to watch you play as I listen along.

It sounds (looks) to me as though you've got all the notes pretty well under control, and (as Sandy mentioned) at a pretty even tempo. If you've continued working on this since you posted the video, I would bet you might have increased the tempo even more. I would be interested in hearing and seeing your progress if you're willing to keep recording and posting in this thread.

I think I'm playing this at about the same tempo as you (maybe a bit faster), and I've just started trying to give the music some "shape"...a little bit of gradual volume increase going up & a little bit of gradual volume decrease going down.

Since I've recently finished all the grunt work in my home projects, I might be able to find some time to make a recording myself & post in this learning group thread. I don't have video equipment, and I'm still making tinny sounding midi recordings but, Christmas is around the corner and I'm thinking of treating myself a little.

(Sorry it took so long to realize that this thread had been updated...I was probably sanding the inside of kitchen cabinets & drawers...something I'll never do again as long as I live)

well done and very even...

I'm 'bout done with the piece, I preformed it for a recital last Sunday.

Naught - nice job. this song is on my radar screen, but I am not there yet. Thank you for posting your recording.

I have a video (youngest son) of Solfeggietto (MPEG format-83MB). I signed up for boxnet but it will only let you upload 10mb or under at no cost.

What are the options? Is there something other than boxnet, can I compress the file, can I utube it?

Try:

rapidshare

or:

megaupload

They both accept 100MB files.

With youtube, you loose a huge amount of the quality of the video. I wouldn't use it.

Mel

Naught...

Dude, are you sill here?

We are eagerly awaiting your next recording.

(even a very little progress is fine)

Seriously Naught, your recording was pretty fantastic...give us another one!

Jeff, you might want to send him a private message or even email to get hold of him. I too eagerly await his next recording!

hahaha

I'm here. Let me tell you about that recording. I learned that piece back in May. I was recording on my PC, but the quality sucked and the effort was extreme to get a recording, so I broke down and bought a camcorder just for my musical recordings. (Told wifey I would make a video of her dog to talk her in to it)

I play Solfeggietto every day as a warmup for my practice, but I don't practice it. In fact I have probably only played it as well as that recording a handful of times.

I'm hoping that sometime in February, when I will have been playing for 2 years, to get a recording of the 1st movement of the Moonlight Sonata. That will probably be the next recording I do.

I think I am different from most of you here, in that, I am doing this just for fun. I have no intentions of being some great piano player. I just want to be able to plink around and have fun doing it. I have almost as much fun from making stupid mistakes as I do from playing something really well. I don't do scales and exercises, I just play.

When I get something of note on film, I'll post it up here, if only to give the "real" beginners, like me, hope. =)

I keep a page of my progress. So I can laugh at how bad I am. If you have the stomach for it, you can hear my progress over the past year at http://www.naughtington.com/piano.htm

It's not all for naught, but it is, all for Naught. =)

Naught,

That was really wonderful and fun to watch !!!

Could you, or someone else tell me how to domeasure 21 -- what fingering in the right hand?

Thanks, ILM

I just decided to pop in, I've beeen busy with my classes, I got to tell you

• NAUGHT[/b], I really liked your recording on the Solfegg.......(darn I can never spell it right and I'm too lazy to look it up). How long did it take you to learn to play it so well ? I am sure that song would make a great warm up. I third the motion Naught[/b] send us some more recordings, I could use a good distraction from my exams next week. :p

Ilikemozart,

measure 21, my teacher wrote in, 5-2-1, 5-3-1, 5-3-1, 5-2-1. But thats not what I do, I do, 5-2-1, 5-3-1, 4-3-1, 5-2-1.

I wonder if she ever noticed that. =)

Petrof, I memorized it really quick, say 2 weeks. I probably was playing it decently after a month. However 6 months later and I still wouldn't say I play it well, and I certainly wouldn't play it for someone w/o 30 mins of warmup on it. =)

I'm still working on it and can play it fairly well. (I am using the score from John Thompson's Fourth Grade book and keeping fairly well to the fingering and dynamics indicated.)

I always have a flub or two but can crank the tempo up pretty well now but usually work slower and try to build precision and a steady tempo.

Of course, if I turn on the RECORD button of my Clavinova CLP280, I fall completely to pieces soon enough!

That was great! I am playing it a bit slower, and don't have the notes under my fingers as well as you do. I loved the birds! It's like they were singing along.

I too am in it just for fun, I don't think you're that different from most of us. Keep us updated on your progress. I loved the video, it's nice to see a person play as you listen.

Naught, I'm going to have to agree with SAS...I don't think you're so different from the rest of us...we're also in it for the fun.

When I play your video (the one with the birds singing along), my little dog goes nuts!

There are a couple places in the piece for "rit" at measures 25 and 30.

Is anyone playing with the rit?

Edit: I have a question about this piece, but since I just found out this post is in adult beginners, I posted the question at http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/2/14631.html instead. In case you're interested, that post has a link to my son's youtube video of this piece (he played it in a recital at around 180 I think, he couldn't do as fast as you guys are aiming here).