50 "grand" then.

But seriously, think about it:

If there was some "ABF Party Fund" with $50,[/b]000 bucks in it, free to spend, wouldn't you accept an invitation to come to a party in San Fransisco with all your ABF friends, all expenses paid?

And by that I mean, roundtrip ticket for you and a guest (wherever you are in the world), one or two nights in a hotel, and plenty of food and drinks during the day?

I'm thinking a one or two-day event here, including a live recital of everyone willing to participate.

The more I think about it, the more fun it sounds!

Wouldn't you come?

I would definitely *want* to attend such a momentous event... but I'm guessing Life and Pragmatics would get in the way. Talking my family into making an AB recital our yearly vacation would be, I think, a tough sell. Going by myself would be possible, but it would depend on the time of year and my teaching schedule and how guilty I'd feel about leaving the kids.

So I guess I would say I love the idea in abstract but am somewhat doubtful about whether I'd actually feel able to go.

Well, I'd certainly come... if you can get the money. Remember, I'm just 14!

In fact, have it in NYC. That way you won't need to fly me out.

Hmm, mahlzeit, I wonder how would you get 50 000 dollars?

Aha! Finally, someone represented 50k in a way that I like!

Perhaps he could go around automating recitals?

I knew someone was going to ask this, but getting the money is not the point.

The real question is: do people want to attend an awesome party, for free, even if it means flying to the other end of the world? And are people willing to put in some work to make that happen?

If the answer to those questions is YES! then making 50K is just one of the problems to tackle. Handling the logistics of everything is probably a worse problem.

But to answer your question: You create money by providing something of value. First you create something of value, then you show it to the right people, and they will give you money in exchange for it.

The advantage of the internet is that you can do this with very low startup costs and overhead.

You basically set up a web site and a mailing list, then get as many potential customers as possible on the mailing list. Then you sell your products to these people.

The fact that people are on your mailing list means that they are interested in what you have to say and that they give you permission to market your products (or even other peoples' products) to them. To get and keep customers on your list, you provide relevant stuff for free on a regular basis (things of real value, not fluff).

One obvious line of products, for us, is (e)books about learning to play the piano. There is an enormous wealth of information in the archives of the ABF (and in the other Piano World forums). We could extract this information and put it in several downloadable books or CD's. I have no doubt that some of this stuff could rival (or even better, complement) other piano courses on the web.

This is just one possibility, there are many others.

The only thing it takes is time. If, let's say, 10 good ABF people volunteer to do this, then no one has to make a large time commitment and we can all still play the piano in our spare time.

So here's the answer to question where we would get 50,000 dollars: we convert our time and energy into 50,000 dollars. In other words, we make[/b] 50,000 dollars.

Now, if you have a 40-hour-a-week job and you don't make anything near that you might be thinking: "yeah, right". Believe me, there are plenty of people on the internet making a VERY comfortable living selling information products this way. MUCH more comfortable than 50K...

Of course this is a crazy idea, but I like my ideas crazy.

Seriously, that sounds quite interesting. If you're actually going to attempt some type of moneymaking for this, I'd be more than willing to help.

Does anyone have any potential dates in mind for this live recital?

First off, a quick note on money making.

Earning a bunch of money(legally) is extremely easy to do in a group setting. I can remember a few years back when Mrs Hunky and I were coaching the local swim team in town. We had 150 little "salesmen" available to us.

In just one weekend of fund raising, we made enough money to pay for everyones suits, goggles, swim bags, team towels as well as buy new lane lines for $10k and new starting blocks for $5k.
We literally had to think of things to buy for the team as we could'nt keep the money personally.

Back in junior high school, I went around selling pencils door to door for $1. I would ring peoples door bell and ask if they would like to buy a nice pencil for $1. Of course, they would always ask why and I would tell them that I would like to make enough money to buy a used car for high school in a couple of years.

The succses rate of my pencil selling was just about 100%!. Almost everybody bought one!. After about 3-4 hours of going door to door, I would bring home around $200 and remember, I was just a 15 year old kid back in the early 80's!.

After only a couple of months, I made enough loot to buy my dream car....a 1979 VW Rabbit..."Diesel"!!...Woo-hoo!!.

Anyway, the point is money should NOT be a reason to not participate as if we all got together as a group, the cash can easily be made.

I'm more interested if our ABF members would *seriously* consider participating in an actual formal real recital. You know, a nice concert setting with a REAL concert grand piano to perform on.

Some of us may have some built up frequent flyer miles that they can use. Others may just be looking for an excuse to take a vacation to a warmer or coder climate. I know I personally would love to meet some of our members personally and finally put a face to a name.

The chance to perform in front of a live audience in a real concert setting on a real concert grand may also be a once in a lifetime opportunity for some as well.

The logistics of doing this are very realistic so long as a location and date are chosen WELL in advance and are acceptable for most of us.

I still think (if there is any real interest of doing this) that we chose a location that can be turned into a vacation to justify the travel and time. Bring the spouse and kids!. One evening is dedicated to the live recital, the rest of your time can be Disneyland, Las Vegas or whatever/wherever!.

So, is there any REAL interest in doing this or are we forever stuck at our desks behind our monitors just dreaming what it would be like to perform at a concert hall in a real recital setting?. This could be our chance!.

I'd be willing to go wherever - but if I need a passport I need to know way ahead because I understand it takes a looooooong time these days. (I know, I'm an unsophisticated midwesterner who has yet to enrich her life with world travel.)

I've gotten to a place in my life where I've decided to just do things that previously I would have hemmed and hawed about for a while, wondering if I should or shouldn't, so now I just do it. No time to wonder what if.

So now that I wrote this, I should just go ahead and get that passport because you never know when an opportunity might present itself, like this!

I'm interested. Dates and locations may be an issue but if they are not I would love to have this opportunity.

I'd be game if it fits reasonably well in my work schedule (meaning no end/beginning of quarter dates)...

Send me free tickets and I'll go anywhere.

On the money side, the answer is obvious! Form a 501(c) nonprofit and start peddling all our ABF recital CDs, advertised as "real music by real people" ...tickets goes to the participants under a weighted vesting schedule.

We can divert to more lucrative stock speculation and narco trafficking once we've got our seed money (speaking of which, members well versed in the bureaucratic grant application process should get cracking)

Yuri and others:

Since there DOES seem to be some interest in this opportunity to perform in front of other members with similar experience/ability levels while possibly combining a location into a family vacation for some, two main iteams need to be addressed. Where and when?.

I think the "when" should be WAY[/b] in the future...(next summer, next year etc), so there is NO scheduling conflicts for anyone.

The "where" will obviously be open to good suggestions that make sense. Since some members may be taking the family or making a mini vacation out of this, Fargo North Dakota may not be the best choice in the dead of winter!!

If this is going to happen, suggestions of sensible locations are greatly encouraged as well as a future date WAY ahead of time.

Just think, if we all actually work together and pull this off, we will ALL have the opportunity to perform in a large concert hall in a LIVE recital setting on a well tuned concert grand.... You might want to bring a video camera for this one!!

I think that it's a great idea, but for some, it's just a pipe dream.

I'll be lucky if I can afford to take the family to Bognor Regis this summer.

P.S. Is Fargo a real place. I thought it was just a fictional film location where everyone says Ja instead of yes. lol.

On reading MrSH's later posts, I would say that I am more interested in the social aspect than the recital aspect. I got back into playing solely for my own enjoyment and a live recital actually would make me feel a lot more pressure than I care to handle!! (I am not putting down the live recital idea tho'.)

Not being a business minded person, I appreciate hearing enterprising ideas of how the ABF can make money to support such an event. I would be wiling to assist in the effort if it comes to that.

If travel expenses were paid for, it definitely takes away one consideration for me.

I don't understand what Van said about "tickets goes to the participants under a weighted vesting schedule" - lack of business understanding here.

And finally don't you wonder what Frank B. has to say if the ABF tries to make money out of the content of this forum?? It's not for us to decide, is it?

Hi Rosanna.

Some of our members may actually very much look forward to being able to participate in such an event while others may not.

Some may view an event like this as just added stress while others may see this as the opportunity of their piano playing life time!.

"Different strokes!" Everyone is certainly invited and it's up to each individual to choose to participate or not depending if they would welcome such an experience or if it would just cause them more stress.

One comment I may add is that people play piano for various reasons. Personal enjoyment, satisfaction, or whatever.

If, and I mean "IF" someones goal is to not only improve but also someday perform in front of others or in public, sooner or later they will actually have to do just that.

What better enviroment than a group of familiar friends with the same abilites and goals in mind?. On the other hand, it would be wrong to participate (although you could still attend) if an event like this causes you nothing but stress, nerves and gas!! as that would also be defeating the purpose.

At this point, we are just tossing some very rough idea's around. If there is interest, we can all pusue this idea further. If not, it dies!.

So far, it seems that some members are for it, others are not and some may be undecided. Who knows where this will lead!

What about something on the middle of the east coast? DC area?

How about holding it in beautiful Midland, Texas. Then we could all tour the George Bush childhood home and drive by the places he lived as an adult. Then we could . . . umm . . . umm . . . hmm . . . there MUST be something interesting to do around here.

Cliburn competition near there Dennis? I'm not very familiar with Texas, even though my father is from there and is a full AGGIE fan. (it was crazy at my house tonight... the Aggies beat the Longhorns)

Then there's always the possibility that we have conceived images of the people here that are so far from reality that we wouldn't even like each other when we are not communicating with an avatar or a mind created image.

In my experience, reality rarely meets our sweet imagination.

Unfortunately people usually disappoint me and I'd rather just experiance forum members in the abstract.

It's an interesting idea though and I'm certain many or most don't share my cynical viewpoint.

i say raise the 50k and at the end of the year we can have a competition online live recital and vote for the best and buy that person the grand they have always dreamed of!!! :p

seriously you think that much money can be raised from the abf???

Come on, there's only one viable place for this meet...the Aleutian Islands, haven't you seen Copper's map?

Ha Ha, good one. Actually, if you've ever seen the Austin Powers movie with "Fat Bastard", you know, the guy that sais "I want to eat the baby" all the time, thats actually me! :p

Fargo is real place, a real life film location where everyone say Ja instead of yes. (The area was originally heavily settled by Swedes. My theory is that no one ever actually learned English. They just kept on speaking Swedish until it mutated.)

MrSH, don't get me wrong. I would fully support having a life recital if there is a consensus. My earlier post was coming from the point where I "discovered" on re-reading your post that it's more about a life recital than about a ABF get-together. Then I realized that I would shy from the recital part - but not the get-together part! I fully understand the joy, excitement and gratification of performing for a live audience - just doesn't happen to be a goal for me, that's all.

I'd be interested in both. Such an event for me would be part recital, part hanging out and teaching each other piano tricks.

It was just one business idea. Also, I did not mean we would copy&paste the forum contents. But you can certainly take the ideas and knowledge from these forums and put them in a structured, readable book (or whatever) and sell it as your own. There is no law that protects ideas or the discussion of ideas. (Nor would it diminish the value or appeal of these forums.) And of course we'd invite Frank B. to the party.

No. But I never said we would "raise money from the ABF". I said: let's get some people from the ABF together to make[/b] money.

Id be willing to help but only at weekends, because only then I have enough time.

So, if we're going to realize this idea - count me in!