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#1070617 - 12/16/07 04:33 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4372
Loc: Jersey Shore
Great Job Kim, can I link your pages to the opening of the Alfred threads?

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#1070618 - 12/17/07 11:00 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
PianoTeacherKim Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Kailua-Kona, HI
Crusader - you're welcome. My passion really is helping and encouraging adult beginners, so I hope that what I write is useful.

Mark - of course, I'd be honored!

Redcard - I'll send you a PM today! Thanks!

Have a great Monday everyone. The sun's shining here today after some nasty weather this weekend (if it had just been snow, it would have been so much better!).

Kim
_________________________
Find some help for stage fright and share what helps you -- Stage Fright Tips. Let's learn from each other!

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#1070619 - 12/17/07 10:06 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
Tony V Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 354
Last week, I got to Cafe Vienna and Lullaby. I am quite content with my progress so far.

Now that I am on break from school, I have no piano to play for 3 weeks. I hope I don't forget anything.

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#1070620 - 12/18/07 09:55 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
redcard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/24/06
Posts: 28
Couple of questions that the book doesn't make clear. As I'm learning by myself, I'd like to get it right.

1. The suggested method is to learn right hand, then left hand, (or reverse), and then build up to tempo, correct?

2. I'm having real trouble hitting things on finger 4 in my right hand. Harmonic intervals are especially difficult, as is the C chord. This is due to the tendon tie between 3,4, and 5. (Yay biology) Flipping forward, I actually see a diagram from Gray's in there. Are the exercises given after that diagram a good idea of exercises?

3. I'm certain I'm doing the hand position wrong as well, any advice on that?

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#1070621 - 12/18/07 10:17 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
PianoTeacherKim Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Kailua-Kona, HI
Tuan Vo: I love Cafe Vienna! \:D That's one of my favorites in the whole book! I think you'll be fine without a piano. Did you bring your book home with you? You can "play" on a tabletop, you know. It can be a great exercise in reading music!

Redcard, your questions:

1) Well, there are various schools of thought on learning. The method you described is probably the most common way of pulling apart a song, and will work fine. Just be careful that you don't EXPECT that when you put your hands together, you'll be able to play as well or as fast as you do with your hands apart. In fact, it may feel as though you've gone back to the beginning. In a way, you have -- controlling two hands (and pedal, etc) is very different for your brain than controlling one hand.

Another way of learning songs is to take them apart measure by measure and beat by beat. So instead of just doing RH, you'd just look at beat 1 of measure one and see what you have to do with both hands. Then look at beat 2. And then link them together. Then, when you've worked through the song, you can pick apart RH or LH to work on the melody line, or articulation, dynamics, whatever the case may be. Try it and see what you think. Different ways of learning might work better with different songs!

2) Ah, finger 4, and the tendons in the hand, bain of the piano player! Yes, I like those exercises... as always, you just have to make sure to be completely relaxed as you work on finger strength and independence.

3) Could you be more clear about this question? Are you talking about the hand position in the exercises? Or in a certain song?
_________________________
Find some help for stage fright and share what helps you -- Stage Fright Tips. Let's learn from each other!

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#1070622 - 12/18/07 10:37 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
redcard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/24/06
Posts: 28
I'm talking about the general positioning of the hands above the keys. I find myself not doing the "holding a bubble" enough, and wonder what I can do to increase that.

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#1070623 - 12/18/07 12:41 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
PianoTeacherKim Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 255
Loc: Kailua-Kona, HI
OK, I understand now!

First, let me say that as you play songs, your hands change shape continually, so you're not aiming for the perfect "bubble" all the time.

What you're aiming for is:

- relaxed, no-tension hands
- no "wrist droop" where your wrists fall (like what happens when you type at a keyboard with your wrists resting on the desk)
- allowing your hands to slide into the keyboard (toward the piano) as needed to play chords or reach notes

I like to think of this whole "curved fingers/holding a bubble" thing a different way: think of playing with the very tip-tops of your fingers instead. This allows you the freedom to change your hand shape to fit what the music is asking you to play. (I'd personally break my bubble when I play a 7th, for example, from C up to B).

For me, that helps. I had quite a few adult students who let that holding a bubble idea develop into tension. Don't want that!

Hope that helps!

Kim
_________________________
Find some help for stage fright and share what helps you -- Stage Fright Tips. Let's learn from each other!

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#1070624 - 12/25/07 09:19 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
preston08 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 7
Loc: BC, Canada
I am a college student, and am going to take up the piano next semester in January. I am most likely going to buy a Casio PX110.

A question... is the Adult All in One book the same as the Basic Adult Piano Course book but with more Theory and more Songs?

I think I'll buy the All in One series and see how far I can get this semester. (I'm a pure beginner so if I get into the tough stuff on book 1 I'll be pleased)

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#1070625 - 12/25/07 07:16 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4372
Loc: Jersey Shore
 Quote:
Originally posted by preston08:
.

A question... is the Adult All in One book the same as the Basic Adult Piano Course book but with more Theory and more Songs?

[/b]
From what everyone has been saying I believe you are correct...

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#1070626 - 12/26/07 05:31 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
vayapues Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 103
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mark...:
 Quote:
Originally posted by preston08:
.

A question... is the Adult All in One book the same as the Basic Adult Piano Course book but with more Theory and more Songs?

[/b]
From what everyone has been saying I believe you are correct... [/b]
It is absolutly identical, but it is all in one. You can buy the lessons, theory, and technical all in seperate books, or you can buy them all in one book.
_________________________
There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary numbers, and those who don't.

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#1070627 - 12/26/07 07:12 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
preston08 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 7
Loc: BC, Canada
All in One it is. I'm starting in January when I'm back at school. I'll certainly use this thread for guidance, and to ask questions.

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#1070628 - 12/27/07 12:09 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
SHPiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 246
Loc: S.Central Texas
It's a pretty good course. The AIO has some theory, but it's pretty limited. I think they've could have beefed the theory up a bit more, but what the heck. I've supplemented the theory in the book with some of the on-line sources recommended here.

BTW: I'm polishing O Sole Mio, Chiapanecas, The Stranger and starting Greensleeves.

Good Luck.
_________________________
Bösendorfer 225 My New BÖSENDORFER Arrives
Blüthner Style 9 My 1926 Blüthner Arrives
Shoninger upright
Roland FP7
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#1070629 - 12/28/07 06:38 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
crusadar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 670
Loc: Middle England
I must confess I haven't been doing the ammount of practicing of the Alfred's songs as I should have been, I've sidetracked and been playing music from other sources. I can play through all of the songs in Alfred's Book #1 so my sight reading is progressing well, the only thing holding me back is the pedaling, but I'll get it down eventually. I have Alfreds All-in-one Book #2 here waiting for me to start once I think I'm finished with Book #1, or once I think it can't hold my interest any longer and I need to press on. That's my progress update.

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#1070630 - 12/28/07 06:56 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
Oxfords Gal Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 1553
Loc: Jacksonville, Florida
I'm in the same boat as you Crusader. My new teacher shifted me to Helen Curtis and we do Alfred's because I asked her if I could stay on it but it's one piece every 2 weeks.

However I trust her fully (have I mentioned what a brilliant pianist she is?) and I got a really nice surprise last week.

She critiqued me and put me at level 3 and I owe it all to her because she gives me challenging music and makes sure I do it perfectly.

Although I love Alfred's I'm finding that taking lessons with her will get me where I want to be faster without missing anything.
_________________________
Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear, Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair.>>> Herman Munster

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#1070631 - 12/28/07 07:26 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
Sundew Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 281
Loc: England
I've also had Alfred on hold. I got him out again yesterday and reviewed 3 familiar pieces, The Entertainer, Guantanamera and Theme from the Overture. My hands hurt. The other, non-Alfred, pieces I work on do not create that level of discomfort. I am inclined to think it is due to the chords as my LH hurt the worse. Obviously a fault in my technique. I just received a couple of volumes by Helen Marlais, Succeeding With The Masters, so I rather think my focus will shift to those. Much more my thing.

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#1070632 - 12/28/07 10:52 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
crusadar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 670
Loc: Middle England
Hi, Oxfords Gal, I think I would progress faster with a teacher, I need someone to set goals for me to aim for.

Hi Sundew, Which Helen Marlais volumes did you purchase, I may buy a couple myself to add to my music library? You could always check your technique by watching the pieces being performed on You Tube.

I purchased a number of other piano methods before I settled on Alfred's and I found Alfred's to be the best of the bunch, as I'm self learning. All methods tend to have some pretty corny old tunes in them, they just have to treated as exercises. Considering I really haven't put the practice time in I'm pleased that Alfred's has got me through to my present level.

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#1070633 - 12/29/07 06:33 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
Pete105 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/09/07
Posts: 20
I got a HUGEEEE Questions about this book, I am on London Bridge, in and around page 57 (intervals of 6ths coming up next). But I look down the book (Can Can etc) and it seems like there is different fingerings for every song after...where does all this tie in??? I think between 70 and 75 will be tough!

Is this something my teacher will be showing me or what (different finger positions etc)?

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#1070634 - 12/30/07 03:31 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
Sundew Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 281
Loc: England
Hi Crusader - I have the Baroque and Romantic Vol 1. It is early days to comment on them but I like the idea that each piece is introduced with tuition on technique and the accompanying CD will be useful.

Alfred was my first method, like you I have tried a few! I think most give something. Alfred Book 1 has given me a good base to explore other methods and move forwards. I could never focus on one particular method - I flit about, which probably holds me back but I enjoy the flitting. I'm going to follow Kim's lessons with interest {thanks Kim}and limit my Alfred time so my hands don't hurt.

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#1070635 - 12/30/07 01:23 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
crusadar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 670
Loc: Middle England
I got a HUGEEEE Questions about this book, I am on London Bridge, in and around page 57 (intervals of 6ths coming up next). But I look down the book (Can Can etc) and it seems like there is different fingerings for every song after...where does all this tie in??? I think between 70 and 75 will be tough![/b]

Sorry Pete105, fingering is one of my weak points, so far I have difficulty playing music without fingering. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will answer your question soon, in which case I too will be following the answer with interest.

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#1070636 - 12/30/07 06:10 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
Pete105 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/09/07
Posts: 20
Thats ok crusader, I am slowly reading through the book, the different fingering positions (oppose to C,mC,G so far what Ive learned) comes from the different intervals (4ths 5ths 6ths etc) again, from what I can see of it...thats what it is...havent had a lesson yet since XMAS...anyone feel free to correct me ofcourse!

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#1070637 - 12/31/07 11:52 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
Oxfords Gal Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 1553
Loc: Jacksonville, Florida
I'm not sure what you're asking Pete.

Depending on what key the music is played in the fingering is going to be different.

Most music you buy will have fingering in it for you, sometimes you have to insert your fingering in some places on the pieces and you figure it out the more you've taken lessons.

For instance you'll automatically know when to do thumb under sometimes to get the fingers further up on the keyboard according to the music played.

I'm still not sure what the question is but as I mentioned most music you run into will have the fingering outlined.
_________________________
Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear, Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair.>>> Herman Munster

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#1070638 - 12/31/07 12:03 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
gmm1 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1674
Loc: Spokane WA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Pete105:
I got a HUGEEEE Questions about this book, I am on London Bridge, in and around page 57 (intervals of 6ths coming up next). But I look down the book (Can Can etc) and it seems like there is different fingerings for every song after...where does all this tie in??? I think between 70 and 75 will be tough!

Is this something my teacher will be showing me or what (different finger positions etc)? [/b]
Pete, are you asking if you play a note, say C, with a different finger from another piece?

If that's your question, then the answer is yea. Don't think of a finger "owning" a key. Depending on what you just played and what you will play next, the fingering may be different for notes from song to song.

Once you get the hang of it, it is not a problem, and as you play more and more, you don't even notice....
_________________________
"There is nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself." Johann Sebastian Bach/Gyro

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#1070639 - 01/01/08 08:28 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
Oxfords Gal Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 1553
Loc: Jacksonville, Florida
Oh I hope you weren't thinking that only certain fingers play certain keys as gmm1 mentioned \:D . No such thing with the piano.

That kind of thing is true for the flute, recorder and tin whistle, those kind of instruments but for the Piano anything goes if I could use my toes I would. he he he he

Sometimes I have to figure out my own fingering in some situations and you have to do it logically by seeing what the highest note is in that measure will kind of tell you what finger to use for that first note and use thumb under if necessary and stretches etc.
_________________________
Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear, Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair.>>> Herman Munster

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#1070640 - 01/01/08 10:10 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
Pete105 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/09/07
Posts: 20
Thats exactly what I am asking \:\) So a finger doesnt own a key (like I said I am sure Ill learn this in my next lesson hehe I am just curious). I am on lonstar waltz now in the book...and from what I see the positions are all totally different from all the previous songs.

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#1070641 - 01/07/08 03:16 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
ninja8701 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 284
Loc: El Paso, Texas
It's going very slow now. On about page 99 or so with Cafe Viena and Lullaby (don't have the book in front of me so I may have mispelled). Does it get slower as you progress towards the end?
_________________________
Kawai RX2/Yamaha Digital YPG625

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#1070642 - 01/07/08 06:28 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4372
Loc: Jersey Shore
 Quote:
Originally posted by ninja8701:
It's going very slow now. On about page 99 or so with Cafe Viena and Lullaby (don't have the book in front of me so I may have mispelled). Does it get slower as you progress towards the end? [/b]
yes...I was doing a piece a week on average unless it just clicked and then once in a while two pieces. The pieces get longer as the book progresses too...

If your doing other stuff like side pieces that will slow you down too.

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#1070643 - 01/07/08 07:07 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
SHPiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 246
Loc: S.Central Texas
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mark...:

If your doing other stuff like side pieces that will slow you down too. [/b]
Indeed it will. After polishing up Greensleeves I decided to go outside the book and work on Bach's Minuet in G. It looks pretty easy, so I thought "What the heck." I worked on the first section (page 1) for a few days and was very pleased with myself for getting it "under my fingers". I proudly played it for my teacher. Now, I've got all kinds of work to make it more musical. I'll work on Scarborough Fair simultaneously but I'm guessing to really play the Minuet well will take a bit of time.

I've written it before, but it's worth repeating: There are things you (at least I) learn from a teacher that might never pick up on your own.
_________________________
Bösendorfer 225 My New BÖSENDORFER Arrives
Blüthner Style 9 My 1926 Blüthner Arrives
Shoninger upright
Roland FP7
Yamaha EZ30

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#1070644 - 01/07/08 07:29 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
Late Beginner Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 588
Loc: West Australia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Pete105:
I got a HUGEEEE Questions about this book, I am on London Bridge, in and around page 57 (intervals of 6ths coming up next). But I look down the book (Can Can etc) and it seems like there is different fingerings for every song after...where does all this tie in??? I think between 70 and 75 will be tough!

Is this something my teacher will be showing me or what (different finger positions etc)? [/b]
Hi Pete,

This is something that I've been grappling with recently too. Once you get away from the beginner books it's common to have to work out fingering for yourself, and there are always several options. Not everybody will finger the same piece in an identical way.

For instance, I have some simple versions of songs that I can play on guitar, so I want to try them out on piano. But no fingering is shown on the scores.

As others have said, on some instruments it's pre-set - each finger always performs the same task. Either that, or there are general rules or guidelines to suggest which finger plays each note, or covers all the notes across each fret.

But on piano you need to make many more decision about which finger to use on each note, and when to change hand position for a while. Sometimes it's no more than a simple extra stretch and at other times it's a complete change of hand position. It seems that the most effective choices can depend on your hand size, general skills, and even musical style.

I was struggling recently with working out the fingering for what had been a very simple piece on guitar - a basic melody line for Loch Lomond - and asked a friend for advice. The problem was that no matter which position I started from, the same logic and 'scale style' fingering would always collapse at some point, either going up or down, depending on the way the notes followed each other. It was intriguing to note that (despite her undoubtedly advanced skills) she still spent a considerable amount of time experimenting with a variety of possibilities before she settled on the one she felt was most efficient, and suited her best. I eventually ended up using something similar, but still a bit different.

There are lots of little tricks and twiddles, and although there are probably a great deal of of wrong ways, there can also be more than one 'right way'. For instance, another experienced teacher told me that if you need to play the same note more than once in succession it often pays to change fingers. I think his reason on that occasion was more to doing with control, expression or smoothness of playing, but it certainly fixed my 'change position' problem with Loch Lomond. I was able to play the same note in quick succession with different fingers, and my hand was then set up to avoid what had been a problem further along the line. But there are always opportunities to move your basic hand position for as long as needed. It feels a bit odd at first, but you soon get used to it.

Cheers,

Chris
_________________________
Who needs feet of clay? I can get into enough trouble with feet made of regular foot stuff...

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#1070645 - 01/07/08 08:33 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4372
Loc: Jersey Shore
 Quote:
Originally posted by SHPiano:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mark...:

If your doing other stuff like side pieces that will slow you down too. [/b]
Indeed it will. After polishing up Greensleeves I decided to go outside the book and work on Bach's Minuet in G. It looks pretty easy, so I thought "What the heck." I worked on the first section (page 1) for a few days and was very pleased with myself for getting it "under my fingers". I proudly played it for my teacher. Now, I've got all kinds of work to make it more musical. I'll work on Scarborough Fair simultaneously but I'm guessing to really play the Minuet well will take a bit of time.

I've written it before, but it's worth repeating: There are things you (at least I) learn from a teacher that might never pick up on your own. [/b]
Thats why I'm totally dedicated to finishing Alfred and do minimal side work. Since I've taken this approach my progress in Alfred has increase markedly...and hopefully my piano skills

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#1070646 - 01/08/08 11:48 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #1
BazC Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 711
Loc: Cambridgeshire, UK
Well my book arrived today so I'm starting right from the very basics. Anyone else out there starting from scratch?
_________________________

Korg SP200, Pianoteq

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