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#107221 - 06/06/05 03:04 PM What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
GreatLakes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Originally the midwest, now th...
Does anyone have an opinion on a fair price for a Yamaha GH1 (I'm pretty sure that's the model)? It is 12 years old and being sold privately by a local family. It has been used by a daughter who took lessons for a few years and by her father, who apparently plays "occasionally" as a beginner/intermediate. It had regular tunings but has not been tuned in the last 2-3 years. It is ebony polish. I have not yet played it or seen it. It is being offered for $6000. That seems a bit high to me.

I have purchased a Kawaii RX-2 recently (not yet received delivery). It will be my main piano (living room). If I purchase this Yamaha it would be a secondary piano for my master bedroom or "bonus room". Since space is an issue, I am comfortable with a second piano (if I buy one) being a 5'3" or smaller baby grand. The purpose of the second piano is: (1) To have a piano to play upstairs when my wife is doing work in the home office (so I can be closer to her); (2) To experience a different "sound" / tone / action than is what I will experience on my Kawaii -- just for variety; (3) I'm planning for the future -- no kids now, but when we do have them it will be nice to have a second piano so that two kids or an adult and a child can play at the same time and not have to schedule practicing time.

I'm an advanced intermediate player with 11 years of classical training and one year of jazz training. I'm not as good at classical as I should be (not played much lately in the classical genre). I also play a lot of improvisation (a la George Winston-like).

I've always liked the Yamaha tone and action and think it might be a nice complement to my 5'10" Kawaii.

Please feel free to give me feedback on the price that seems fair for this privately-owned, 12-year old Yamaha GBH1 offered at $6000 and any other comments anyone would like to add.

I'm relatively new to PianoWorld. I've been reading the forums for about a month and have learned a lot. First time post, though. I think I am getting a pretty good deal on my Kawaii RX-2 (new) at under $14,000, taxes and shipping included. Based upon that price, it would seem like about $3500 or $4000 is more of a fair price for the used Yamaha.

Thank you in advance for any feedback and comments. I appreciate everyone's wisdom whether it is based upon years of experience or just a subjectively-based hunch or anecdote.

I have no affiliations other than the fact that my mother has been a private piano teacher for the last 35+ years (about 30 students) and has been and continues to be very satisfied with her 6'1" Kawai (not sure of the model number). Her piano has never been moved (she's lived in the same house all that time) and has never had any major problems. That factor was a slight nod in the direction of Kawaii for me. However, I played about 20 pianos of numerous makes and models before finally settling in on my RX-2 purchase.

Thanks.

-GreatLakes-

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#107222 - 06/06/05 03:51 PM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
GreatLakes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Originally the midwest, now th...
Additionally, any opinions about whether it would be more advisable for me to get an upright piano as a "2nd" piano, given that space is an issue. Again, I'd like to consider a Yamaha b/c I like that brighter, yet relatively tight, controlled sound and quick, responsive action. I've never played a Yamaha upright. Are they similar in tone and action to their baby grand counterparts?

Is it possible to get a respectable Yamaha upright (new or used) for the $3000 - 4000 range? Again, I'm not going to be overly concerned about getting THE BEST piano. Remember, it would be a secondary piano purchased mostly for tonal/action variety and convenience. I'd really like to limit my expense to a max. of $4000 for a second piano.

I greatly appreciate everyone's opinions/suggestions in advance and look forward to learning a lot about my possible options.

Thanks!

GreatLakes

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#107223 - 06/07/05 11:46 AM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
Randy88 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/31/05
Posts: 16
Loc: Alberta Canada
You might be interested in some reviews of the Yamaha GH1 http://www.scopereviews.com/piano.html
I've heard these instruments are difficult to keep in tune. I'm not an expert myself but this may be of interest.
Randy
_________________________
Some people cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go----Oscar Wilde

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#107224 - 06/07/05 12:00 PM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
GreatLakes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Originally the midwest, now th...
Thanks for the link, Randy. I'll take a look.

GL

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#107225 - 06/07/05 02:01 PM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10570
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
Yamaha had a number of problems with the early GH1s such as this. I would keep shopping.
_________________________
Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#107226 - 06/07/05 02:08 PM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
Rich D. Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 1280
Loc: Rehoboth Beach De. USA
I've never been a fan of the really small grands. Not enough bass for me though for some folks that is not a factor. Since it would be your second piano it might be ok, but if your going to be on it daily for extended periods of time and it's only so so sounding you may be disappointed. Therefore buying a large upright or used grand that's slightly larger (5'6" - 5'8")might be a better choice. Just my two cents.

Rich
_________________________
Retired at the beach (well maybe not completely)

Anton Rubinstein said about the piano: "You think it is one instrument? It is a hundred instruments!"

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#107227 - 06/07/05 02:09 PM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
piano_deb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 787
Loc: Memphis, TN
This is from Larry Fine's "The Piano Book," which is frequently recommended in this forum:
 Quote:
Finally, some technicians complained about the tone quality of some Yamaha grands. The 5'3" models GH1 and GP1 were both heavily criticized for poor tone and for tuning difficulties due to poor scales. These two models also don't come wth a sostenuto pedal, duplex scales and several other features found in the larger pianos, prompting some technicias to say they would recommend a Korean piano or a Kawai over these two models."
I only mention this because you said you were open to uprights as well as grands so maybe you're not convinced that the GH1 is the right second piano for your household. As for uprights, it's not an uncommon thing for people here to say better a high-quality upright than a not-so-great baby grand. If you like Yamaha, the U models might interest you. Use the search function at the top of the page to search for previous threads on U1, U3, U5, Yamaha upright, and so on.

Good luck!
_________________________
Deborah
Charles Walter 1500
Happiness is a shiny red piano.

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#107228 - 06/07/05 02:40 PM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
GreatLakes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Originally the midwest, now th...
When I have a spare moment I'll check out some of those threads concerning the "U" models. I haven't played many uprights -- it's been more than 10 years since I have -- does anyone know if the tone/action of the Yamaha uprights are likely to be similar to those of their baby grands?

I like the Kawaii RX-2's medium/expressive action. But I would like something a bit tighter and brighter for a second piano ... again, for that variety. I've played Young Chang's Pramberger PG-185 and it was a bit too "soft and mild" for my taste (in tone and in action), so I'd like to steer away from that kind of sound/feel. I've also played some of the Dongbei "nameplates" like an Everett. For the low price it was okay. But, again, a bit soft and unresponsive "mushy" for my expectations and playing style.

I've played a Petrof IV (5'8") and liked it a lot -- but it's way too expensive for a second piano (and that model is too big for my room). The Petrof was not as tight and quick as the Yamaha, but it was very expressive and subtle. I would not mind that kind of tone/action as an alternative option to a Yamaha.

Any thoughts on Petrof uprights?

Also, are Weinbach's the exact same as Petrof's but simply in a less stylized cabinet? Or are there additional compromises in the Weinbach line beyond cosmetics?

Anyone responding, please keep in mind that I'd like to keep my budget to around $4000 for this second piano (used is acceptible).

Thanks so much.

GreatLakes

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#107229 - 06/07/05 02:41 PM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
GreatLakes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Originally the midwest, now th...
Steve,

Thanks for the heads-up on the potential problems w/ the GH1.

GL

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#107230 - 06/07/05 03:04 PM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
GreatLakes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Originally the midwest, now th...
Quick aside:

I noticed in my shopping for my primary piano that I was able to get a much better deal on Kawaii compared to similar models by Yamaha. Based upon not only my own opinion but also many of the PW forum's members, I think most people would agree that Kawaii and Yamaha are very similar in quality, durability, and performance level.

The primary difference between the two seems to be based upon personal subjective preferences surrounding tone/action and unending arguments about plastic versus wood actions, etc.

Why the price differences? For instance, I could have purchased a Kawaii RX-1 from at least two dealers for about $12,400 (taxes/delivery included). The RX-1 is 5'5" and considered to be similar -- for comparison purposes -- to the Yamaha "C" series, if I'm not mistaken. The Yamaha GC1 (a 5'3" that does not have all of the features of a good ol' "C" series Yamaha) was holding pretty firm at around $15,000 (taxes/deliv. included).

I ended up getting the RX-2 (5'10") for $13,600 (taxes/deliv. included). Why such a HUGE price difference. I would have gladly purchased a Yamaha C2 (5'8") if it were offered to me in the $13,600 - $15,000 range. But I didn't see anything close to that!

Why such a difference? Did I get "lucky"? Is Kawaii offering fantastic price-breaks to dealers right now? Are Yamaha dealers less willing to negotiate? Were Yamaha dealers thinking that they could make a good profit off of me and therefore being "stingy" with their negotiating which consequently had the effect of losing my sale? Or is there some legitimate reason (beyond the purely subjective) that makes a Yamaha C2 that much better than a Kawaii RX-2 that will justify a consumer paying several thousand more for it?

Thanks for your input.

GreatLakes

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#107231 - 06/08/05 07:52 AM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
josfai Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 15
Loc: US-MidWest
If you are shopping for a second piano and you do not have a digital already, I would recommend that you consider getting s Yamaha Clavinova or something like that.

It is less maintenance and it will allow to play with your headsets on. You mentioned that you are planning for a family. A digital will allow you to practice when the baby is sleeping...

Just a suggestion.

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#107232 - 06/08/05 08:03 AM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
Christopher P. Smith Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 1306
Loc: Timonium, MD
I would have to agree, I personally would stay away from a GH1. If you can find a GC1 used, it would be a much better buy!

Good luck!
_________________________
Representing Yamaha, Story and Clark, and other fine instruments
Menchey Music Service
Associate Member of PTG
Serving Central Pennsylvania and the Greater Baltimore Area

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#107233 - 06/08/05 08:22 AM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
Miss Mouse Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 276
Loc: Southeastern Pennsylvania
There are a number of used Yamaha uprights listed in PianoWorld's for sale section. Pianomart.com probably also has a large selection. Perhaps also check them to see if a used Charles Walter or Schulze Pollmann is available.
_________________________
Go Eagles! (Well, maybe next year.)

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#107234 - 06/08/05 10:51 AM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
GreatLakes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Originally the midwest, now th...
Thanks for the suggestions everyone! I'll check out pianomart.com (didn't know about that).

I actually DO have a Yamaha clavinova already and like it for the reasons mentioned. I'm interested, however, in a second acoustic piano b/c I like the "feel" and "sound" of them (even if not a really high-end, expensive one).

GL

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#107235 - 06/08/05 11:13 AM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
Christopher P. Smith Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 1306
Loc: Timonium, MD
You could also check out Rick Jones (here on the east coast)if you are considering buying online.
_________________________
Representing Yamaha, Story and Clark, and other fine instruments
Menchey Music Service
Associate Member of PTG
Serving Central Pennsylvania and the Greater Baltimore Area

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#107236 - 06/08/05 12:42 PM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
GreatLakes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Originally the midwest, now th...
Christopher,

Is it safe to buy a piano sight unseen? Could I count on a Rick Jones used Yamaha, whether 2 years old or 30 years old, to have that characteristic Yamaha sound and feel? Or are some older pianos that he sells beyond hope or a severe compromise in quality?

It would be about a 6-hour drive for me to make it up there to play his pianos first-hand.

Does he offer a full satisfaction guarantee for those who buy from him without first testing the piano purchased?

Thanks.

GL

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#107237 - 06/08/05 12:48 PM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
Christopher P. Smith Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 1306
Loc: Timonium, MD
GL -

Well, I would not suggest buying a piano sight unseen; however from just anyone, I do believe you can trust Rick Jones to deliver exactly what you need. If you look him up on a search engine, you can get a feel for what they are all about.

I do believe he has a 100% garauntee on all pianos sold (including warranty and trade in)

I am sure you will get several forum members that would discourage you from buying sight unseen.

We'll see!

Just my 2 cents
_________________________
Representing Yamaha, Story and Clark, and other fine instruments
Menchey Music Service
Associate Member of PTG
Serving Central Pennsylvania and the Greater Baltimore Area

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#107238 - 06/08/05 12:50 PM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
Christopher P. Smith Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 1306
Loc: Timonium, MD
sorry for the jumbled first sentence. hopefully you get my point
_________________________
Representing Yamaha, Story and Clark, and other fine instruments
Menchey Music Service
Associate Member of PTG
Serving Central Pennsylvania and the Greater Baltimore Area

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#107239 - 06/08/05 01:43 PM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
GreatLakes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Originally the midwest, now th...
Christopher,

Thanks again for your input. I'll look into the R. Jones angle.

Do you (or does anyone else) have any input that you are comfortable sharing regarding my earlier aside regarding why I was able to get a new Kawaii RX-2 for what seems to me to be a pretty good price (under $14k complete). But a comparable Yamaha would have been at least $5-7k more expensive?

GL

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#107240 - 06/08/05 01:55 PM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
Christopher P. Smith Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 1306
Loc: Timonium, MD
Regarding your price on the RX2. It is a fine piano, and it seems you received a GREAT all inclusive price.

Did you buy it off the floor or was it ordered in for you.

Reason for the generous price may include any one of the following:

1. it may have been a floor model for several years, meaning they wanted to "move" it
2. they may have collected rental income on this piano
3. they may have been desperate for the sale
4. yada yada yada. . who knows

The fact is, its seems you received a great deal. I would encourage you to enjoy teh RX2 and enjoy your second piano for your master bedroom.
_________________________
Representing Yamaha, Story and Clark, and other fine instruments
Menchey Music Service
Associate Member of PTG
Serving Central Pennsylvania and the Greater Baltimore Area

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#107241 - 06/08/05 04:40 PM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
GreatLakes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Originally the midwest, now th...
Thanks for your input, Christopher. The owner asked if I'd like the floor model or a "new in the box" RX-2. I opted for the brand new one. He was a very nice gentleman who has had a family-owned business for many, many years. I think he keeps his labor costs down given that the store's employees are mostly family members and he's not in a really expensive "high lease" district or city. However, I was still rather baffled b/c another dealer was also willing to sell me a brand new RX-2 for just a few hundred higher. Anyway, it would not have been practical for me to spend $5000 - 7000 more on a comparable Yamaha model. I have just been rather surprised at the big price disparity and wondered if it was a local anomaly or more of a national phenomenon where Kawaii is trying to undercut Yamaha for extra business.

I'll take my time selecting a second piano. Thanks again for your suggestions and input.

GreatLakes

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#107242 - 06/10/05 10:50 AM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
GreatLakes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Originally the midwest, now th...
What's a fair price I should expect to pay a local Registered Piano Technician to travel to an individual's home and give me their professional opinion on the quality and capabilities of a privately owned used piano?

Feel free to comment on this or any other qu's I've had in this thread.

Thanks.

GL

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#107243 - 06/10/05 12:44 PM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
Paul Y Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1083
Loc: Nashua, NH
GreatLakes,

Most people are puzzled as well regarding Yamaha versus Kawai, especially in the pricing arena. With the popularity of Yamaha, Kawai dealers seem intent to take a little shorter profit margin in order to "take business away" from Yamaha.

I believe Kawai is very close in quality and workmanship to Yamaha (despite me working for Yamaha for a long time and currently selling Yamaha in retail)! They come from the same area of Japan, the pricing is similar in many models and the quality remain close between the two brands. However, out in the real world, unfortunately, Kawai seems to remain relatively "invisible". You see the Yamaha name and logo everywhere (TV, stages, concerts, etc). But hardly ever do you see the Kawai name. It's always seemed to play "second fiddle" to Yamaha for some reason.

While you may find some PW posters have their own personal opinion about both brands, you can't go wrong with either piano! When it comes time to sell the piano, perhaps Yamaha might garner a little higher price (because of the name recognition). But you won't enjoy the Kawai any less over the years.
_________________________
Retired Industry Professional

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#107244 - 06/10/05 01:38 PM Re: What's a fair price for a 12-year-old Yamaha GH1 that has been used lightly?
GreatLakes Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 51
Loc: Originally the midwest, now th...
Paul,

Thank you for your candid feedback. I'm very comfortable w/ my selection of the Kawaii RX-2.

It's funny what one is used to as far as name recognition goes. My mother is an at-home piano teacher and has had a 6'1" Kawaii for 35 years that has received A LOT of use and has had no significant problems. Additionally, my piano teacher (my mother wanted me to learn from someone else who had a PhD in music and was a performance major) had two Kawaii grands. Then, at Indiana University (I was not a music major there -- far from it), there were pianos ALL OVER the campus in dorms, classroom buildings, etc. I played several pianos there: Kawaii, Yamaha, Kimball, Steinway, and everything in-between.

So not only have I been fortunate to have played on probably 100 different pianos, but I am very aware of the Kawaii name from all of those experiences. But, I suppose you're right. If one is not a piano player and hasn't been around pianos much, Steinway and Yamaha are probably the two best known names.

-------------------------------------------------
Hey, I just called Rick Jones and asked about the used Yamaha uprights they carry. Is there anyone out there who is particular about what they want (as far as tone and action is concerned) and communicated such to Rick and let him pick out a piano for you to meet those descriptive tone/action needs? If anyone has some first-hand feedback about buying a piano from him sight unseen and are happy w/ his selection for you -- I'd be interested in your results purchasing that way. Did he get the right piano for you (tone/action/etc.) what you expected?

Furthermore, any opinions out there concerning the Yamaha U1, U2, U3 (or the comparable UX models)? Do the Yam. uprights have a bright tone like the grands? Do the Yam. uprights have that firm, yet predictable and responsive action like their grands?

Thanks.

GL

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