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#1077382 - 12/26/08 12:47 AM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
rosa2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 168
Loc: Hong Kong
\:\) Happy Holidays Everyone.

OK, I finished the first lesson on Hola, yes and even wrote my own hit. :p

That was a lot of fun as it got me out of mixing a variety of pattern in my LH. In the past, I've just stuck with one pattern when I improvise so that was a breakthrough.

I am wondering if Pete would like to listen to it?

In the past, I am used to doing the kind of closed voicing, something like the stride. I've never really used 'throb' throughout a section. I am surprised that throb is a good pattern, and it is easy and rhythmic, quite good for variation.

In the progression of Hola, the B section where F goes to Bb and then to E. It sounds quite good. Is this a change of key here because there is no Bb and E chord in key of C?

Rosa

Oh, I love that progression: Am E/B Am/C C#dim -- the walking up bass sounds so good. \:D

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#1077383 - 12/26/08 01:31 AM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
Pete the bean Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 465
Loc: Canada
Rosa: Please post your hit so we all get to enjoy your hard work. (It is humbling to think that a little exercise I put together has touched someone half way around the world.)

I see the Bb and E chords as leaving the key of C for exactly the reasons you have stated- there is no Bb or G# in the key of C.
Pg 17 of the book describes the chords are moving down a 5th at each chord change. Here the composer is visiting a different key center. This makes for more interesting music.

The progression is almost exactly the same as a typical progression found in baroque to pop music. The one chord that is different than Hola is the Bm7(b5) which in Hola is varied to Bb (One note different.)
This progression goes Dm7|G7|Cmaj7|Fmaj7|Bm7(b5)|E7|Am7| The progression modulates from C major into the new key center Am, the relative minor of C. These are the chords for the A section of Autumn leaves. (Begin with an A in the melody).Add the 10th pattern to the LH and now you got a pop ballad version of Autumn Leaves on your song list.

Another trick to try is to change Hola's chords from triads to 4 notes. For the A section try Am add9 ABCE to G6 GBDE to Fmaj7 FACE back to G6. Change E to E7 EG#BD.
If you feel ready try 4 note chords for the B section as well. I will post a quick lesson on A/B voicings in the next day or 2.-Happy piano ing
_________________________
http://www.poppianopro.com/

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#1077384 - 12/26/08 12:06 PM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
rosa2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 168
Loc: Hong Kong
Pete, I used to live near where you live as I grew up in Vancouver. Now I live across the ocean from you.

Here is the link to my Hola HIT .

http://www.box.net/shared/vjdsalofyu

In section B bar 12, I extended that bar as I could not play so fast in that progression. Let me know if that bar sounds ok to you as I love the progression in that bar.

I didn't know this is the progression of Autumn Leaves. The Bb sounds like a good chord in place of Bdim. I never knew that. I always play Bdim for key of C. Bb works very well for some reason.

I'll have to try the add9 and 6 chord. I mainly used chord tones and added in a 7 or a 9 here and there.

Rosa

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#1077385 - 12/26/08 01:27 PM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
Serge88 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/06
Posts: 775
Loc: Canada
Rosa, wonderful recording.

Pete, you're book looks very good, it will be my next piano course.

Serge
_________________________

“Being able to hear recorded music freed up loads of musicians that couldn't necessarily afford to learn to read or write music. With recording, it was emancipation for the people.”
-Keith Richards


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#1077386 - 12/26/08 03:04 PM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
Ragtime Clown Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 684
Loc: Ireland
Serge

Come on, join us here!

I've just ordered the book from Pete and looking forward to getting it.

Rosa, that was a really nice piece of work, well done!

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#1077387 - 12/26/08 04:12 PM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
Pete the bean Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 465
Loc: Canada
Rosa: Your piece is wonderful. Extending the progression is just the kind of creativity that makes for wonderful magic to happen!
_________________________
http://www.poppianopro.com/

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#1077388 - 12/26/08 06:26 PM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
Serge88 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/06
Posts: 775
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ragtime Clown:
Serge

Come on, join us here!

I've just ordered the book from Pete and looking forward to getting it.

Rosa, that was a really nice piece of work, well done! [/b]
yes I would like to but right now I have so many things to do at the piano. I just received PlayLikeMe DVD and after it's over with that I'll move to PopPianoPro.

Serge
_________________________

“Being able to hear recorded music freed up loads of musicians that couldn't necessarily afford to learn to read or write music. With recording, it was emancipation for the people.”
-Keith Richards


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#1077389 - 12/26/08 10:48 PM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
rosa2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 168
Loc: Hong Kong
Serge, Pete, RC, thanks for listening to the recording. I'm going to try out the 9ths and 6ths to see how different the piece can sound.

I've been used to free-style improvisation and just play anything for the last 2 years but I discovered that I sound the same all the time. Don't know how to make it different. So this time doing this exercise helps me break out of that shell.

This is not hard work at all.

 Quote:

I'm gonna have to take a look cause I've just listened to that roxanne .mp3 and it sounds fab. Bizarre really?

Lee, I just had a listen to Roxanne. You can do it. You don't need to read music to do this. You just need to know what chord you are in. Don't boom, just keep chucking in an even rhythm with your LH. Don't do it too low at the piano.

Rosa

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#1077390 - 12/27/08 01:44 AM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
Pete the bean Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 465
Loc: Canada
Rosa: When you are ready to move to House of the Moon there are a few licks to use in your improv. A bit bluesy

When you are done here are some songs that can take the Root Octave pattern:
Against All Odds-Phil Collins

California Dreaming- Queen Latfifa does a tasty version

Doin' it All for my Baby-Huey Lewis
Easy - Lionel Rithchie

I'M a Believer-Monkeys -Easier song-

It Might Be you- Theme from Tootsie easier song

Maybe I'm Amazed -Paul McCartney

True - Spandau Ballet
_________________________
http://www.poppianopro.com/

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#1077391 - 12/27/08 03:41 AM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
Ragtime Clown Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 684
Loc: Ireland
Pete, as you know I have been taking weekly lessons and although I am progressing very well I think I need to put some of the technique and learning into practice. I play mainly classical pieces from various sources that my teacher provides and they are very good pieces to develop reading and technical skills.

AS you know my aim is to play songs by The Beatles, The Carpenters and solo Paul McCartney. I am pleased that you will be able to help me fulfill my dreams here.

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#1077392 - 12/27/08 12:05 PM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
rosa2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 168
Loc: Hong Kong
Pete, I am working on House of the Setting Moon. I like those triplets there. I've never played bluesy improv before.

I was doing F chord and followed that same procedure you have there for lick 2, so can I play Ab and C together and slide down from Ab to A. It sounds ok to me. That will change it to Fm chord though.

I notice for the Bb7, it is Ab there and for Lick 2, it is G# and D (which is Ab and D). I am just wondering if I am seeing a pattern in this song that the G# or Ab sounds good in this song. Is this the tone that makes this song bluesy?

Rosa

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#1077393 - 12/27/08 01:53 PM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
Pete the bean Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 465
Loc: Canada
Rosa: The sound that you are noticing is the tritione which is the interval (distance between 2 notes of #4 or b5) . This interval is found in a dominant function chords,( a big word that means C7 or G7 or X7). Yes, this gives the bluesy sound.

In a G7 chord, GBDF you find this interval between the B and F (3rd and 7th). When you play blues in major, you can change all the major chords to dominant chords, so C becomes C7 and now you start sounding bluesy-er.

I purposely did not discuss this topic in my book. 4 note chords are not the easiest concept to deal with. Yes you are only adding 1 more note to the chord but that makes the situation a lot more complex.

The scale I am using for the solo is the D minor blues scale: D,F,G,Ab,A C D. RH fingering 1,2 3 4, 1,2,3
You can play this scale through all the chords in the song. Add a couple of the licks to it and things tighten up and you will sound like a pro with the blues.

*there is a typo on the solo chart. Please add an F chord bar 5 beat 3 between Dm and G7.
.

Ragtime clown: I hope my book is able to open up a bit of freedom in your playing. Things are happening fast here on this thread and I will try to get back to you soon.
The book "the Ultimate POP ROCk fake book" Hal Leonard HL00240099 contains 8 Beatles songs and 10 Carpenters songs which already makes it worth the price. There a 582 other songs as well.
_________________________
http://www.poppianopro.com/

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#1077394 - 12/27/08 02:46 PM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
Ragtime Clown Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 684
Loc: Ireland
Peter, I think you should consider doing the following:

1. Expand your website to feature video tutorials and demonstrations
2. Add a forum to discuss your methods
3. Introduce an annual fee for membership to access the forum and in particular your video demonstrations

The membership fee would hopeful pay your costs and time.

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#1077395 - 12/27/08 05:04 PM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
blues flat 7 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 89
Loc: PA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Pete the bean:

Another trick to try is to change Hola's chords from triads to 4 notes. For the A section try Am add9 ABCE to G6 GBDE to Fmaj7 FACE back to G6. Change E to E7 EG#BD.
If you feel ready try 4 note chords for the B section as well. I will post a quick lesson on A/B voicings in the next day or 2.-Happy piano ing [/b]
Pete,
I am really glad that I started this thread, and I love the way that you are describing chords here by spelling them out. That will really help the play by ear people out a lot. I am informing a few of the people over at Piano Magic about this thread because I think it will be a lot of fun for them too, especially since you are playing some songs for everyone to get in their ears.
Mike,over at Piano Magic, teaches that 10th pattern, so that goes along fine with your free lesson that you posted. As you know, I own your book, and can't wait to get started with the things that you have posted here as soon as I get home from my 1 week trip to Ohio.
Thanks for all of your help (WORK) on the thread Pete...

Dale aka blues flat 7

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#1077396 - 12/28/08 02:43 AM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
Pete the bean Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 465
Loc: Canada
Ragtime Clown: Thanks for the encouragement. Let's see if I can't get you playing a Carpenters song before I take on the world.


Rosa: I promised you 4 note chords for the B section of Hola. Here is a mini lesson: http://www.sendspace.com/file/jt4bb3
You will have to change the Bm7b5 to Bb Maj7 (BbDFA) to make things work Hola.
_________________________
http://www.poppianopro.com/

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#1077397 - 12/28/08 01:32 PM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
Alene Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/05
Posts: 78
Loc: Oregon
\:\) Hi Everyone: Thanks to invitations from Dale, Rosa, and Pete, I also want to join in on this thread. I've just ordered Pete's book and rec'd an email saying it's in the mail....thanks Pete. This is so great that Pete is helping us on this thread and looks very interesting.

I have a question on this first lesson. For the rhythm on the RIGHT HAND do we keep that same rhythm but use different notes, or do we make up our own rhythm pattern in right hand? Also, reading the instructions, it seems that we are supposed to land on those guide tones in the right hand and I'm wondering if this is necessary or can we just make up our own right hand melody completely?

Thanks,

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#1077398 - 12/28/08 02:29 PM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
Pete the bean Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 465
Loc: Canada
Alene: Thanks for joining the thread.
For the right hand melody - write your hit- make up your own rhythm. If you are having a hard time, keep it very simple.
The guide tones are there simply to get some creative juices flowing. You can use them but shift them rhythmically or if you have an idea that does not follow the guide notes, please use your own idea.
The point of the exercise is to find a starting point , keep in mind the notes of scale or arpeggio, and hear your way to the end of the phrase.
Keep playing the LH over in small 2 bar sections and try to feel where the music wants to flow.

Sometimes when I write my idea on paper, I see a pattern that I did not even hear, and then edit to work the idea.

Once you get your melody down, it helps to put it away and come back to it. I find I can get so invovled I can not tell if it's good or bad. If I leave it, work on something else and come back to the piece a few weeks later, I have the advantage of hearing it as though it was someone else's work. It gives me a much better perspective in the editing process.
_________________________
http://www.poppianopro.com/

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#1077399 - 12/28/08 02:54 PM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
Alene Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/05
Posts: 78
Loc: Oregon
\:\) Thanks Pete....that was a perfect answer to my questions and good additional advice too. This is going to be fun!

Thanks,
Alene

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#1077400 - 12/29/08 01:23 AM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
rosa2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 168
Loc: Hong Kong
Pete, thanks for the 4 chord LH voicing. I seldom use inversions in LH but it works fine. Moving down the chord a 5th down is very easy as you just alternate changing the 2 fingers. I also see how you just break away from that walking down voicing so that it doesn't get too low and muddy. I'll try that out on Hola again with the G6 and Am9 on the RH.

OK, for lesson 2, so it is the tritone sound.

How come for your Dm you play C#. I don't see C# in Dm nor in Dm scale.

I just use plain C.

What is your reasoning for using C#?

Rosa

Al, glad to see you here. You are going to enjoy it. I'm sure.

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#1077401 - 12/29/08 02:40 AM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
Pete the bean Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 465
Loc: Canada
Rosa: You ask good questions.


If you were to use D minor blues scale DFG G# A C D on your improv you will be playing C as natural.

I am using the D Harmonic scale DEFGABbC#D to produce my melody at this part of the song. I am working a little idea that goes DC#D (R7R) then FEF and then GFG on each of the chord changes. This is melody pattern is called a lower neighbor tone. I like the 1/2 step between the D and C#. It has more pull than a C natural. (The word leading tone is used to describe the C#.)

Just because I use a D harmonic minor to produce my melody, does not mean you can not use the Dm blues scale on your improv and use a C in that part of the song.

Here is a little tip-try playing an A major arpeggio over the last Dm chord for a fancy ending. I play DAF (10th pattern in my LH and run through AC#E as an arpeggio(RH fingering 135 repeated) You are just moving the RH up an octave for each arpeggio. Classical pianist may think the fingering is incorrect but you will find their arpeggios do not sound as stylistically appropriate as the tricks I use. I touch on some of the arpeggios later in the book.

If you get a chance, please post an improv on the chords for House. \:\)
I have started posting Root Octave pattern audio examples in the post above.
_________________________
http://www.poppianopro.com/

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#1077402 - 12/29/08 03:23 PM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
Ragtime Clown Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 684
Loc: Ireland
The Carpenters-Top of the World

Just wanted to give you an up-date, Peter. This evening I marked a verse and corus up on manuscript paper and used the tips that I read in the 'Hola' tutorial to expand the single note melody to chords and harmonise the bass line.

Well, in the key of Bb I may play around with two-note chords before I go to triads. Triads may not sound as good as playing the melody note as a fifth and a first below it (there must be a name for this type of chord, Peter??).

The harmonised left hand is quite easy and may I say obvious. Its a lot easier to write it than play it as it really is good practice for a weak left hand!

I feel I'm on the right track, will keep you posted.

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#1077403 - 12/29/08 09:22 PM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
Pete the bean Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 465
Loc: Canada
If anyone wants to join Ragtime Clown in his quest to learn a Carpenters song you will need to get a copy of Top of the World in Bb. You can find it here for $4.95 http://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0015699

It is a good idea to transfer the song to lead sheet format.


Arranging tips on 2 beat pattern: http://www.sendspace.com/file/7jerll
_________________________
http://www.poppianopro.com/

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#1077404 - 12/29/08 11:58 PM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
Dave123 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 203
Loc: Canada
This is an interesting thread. A while ago I started a thread asking some specific questions as a result, I did get a copy of the lesson Pete posted on this thread (legally, Pete did give it to me ), my reaction at the time was, huh
Now a little down the road it is beginning to make sense. One day I will have enough confidence to attempt the course.

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#1077405 - 12/30/08 12:39 AM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
Pete the bean Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/04
Posts: 465
Loc: Canada
Dave: Let me know what level your at and see if we can't get you going now.
_________________________
http://www.poppianopro.com/

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#1077406 - 12/30/08 09:17 AM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
rosa2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 168
Loc: Hong Kong
 Quote:

Rosa: I promised you 4 note chords for the B section of Hola. Here is a mini lesson: http://www.sendspace.com/file/jt4bb3
You will have to change the Bm7b5 to Bb Maj7 (BbDFA) to make things work Hola.

Hi Pete, in the B section, I used your mini lesson in page 2 on the 4 note chords on the LH and continued on with the throb pattern. I changed to Bb.

For the RH I did Am add9 G6 Fmaj7.
Can you hear the difference?

There is still some thinking going on.... but everyone here, do have a listen Hola Hit 2 :p

http://www.box.net/shared/02qrqat493

Thanks for explaining the C# in the Dm. I will work on House improv next and post a recording.

Rosa

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#1077407 - 12/30/08 09:45 AM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
rosa2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 168
Loc: Hong Kong
 Quote:


If anyone wants to join Ragtime Clown in his quest to learn a Carpenters song you will need to get a copy of Top of the World in Bb. You can find it here for $4.95 http://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0015699

It is a good idea to transfer the song to lead sheet format.

Audio for my arrangement: http://www.sendspace.com/file/0aocgh

Arranging tips on 2 beat pattern: http://www.sendspace.com/file/7jerll

I'll join in the fun to play On Top of the world. (You can tell we are in the same age group). I did mine in the key of D. Bb sounds very low to me. Thanks for preparing the pdf Pete.

Let me know if this is on the right track:

http://www.box.net/shared/naufyls2rz

Rosa

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#1077408 - 12/30/08 10:44 AM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
Ragtime Clown Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 684
Loc: Ireland
Rosa, your contribution to this thread has been enormous.Your recordings are so nice and can only fuel my desire to play like you.

My playing level is obviously lower than yours and thats why theres a struggle at this end!

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#1077409 - 12/30/08 09:29 PM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
Dave123 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 203
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by Pete the bean:
Dave: Let me know what level your at and see if we can't get you going now. [/b]
PM sent, I really don't want to hijack the topic, for the most part I am just reading and soaking up the comments.

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#1077410 - 12/30/08 11:08 PM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
blues flat 7 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 89
Loc: PA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Dave123:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Pete the bean:
Dave: Let me know what level your at and see if we can't get you going now. [/b]
PM sent, I really don't want to hijack the topic, for the most part I am just reading and soaking up the comments. [/b]
Dave, You will not be hijacking the thread. I wanted to see if Pete would give some tips on his book with this thread, and we are all getting much more than expected. The audios that Pete and Rosa are doing are a big help. Any question that you ask here in the thread Dave, is going to help everyone.

Dale aka blues flat 7

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#1077411 - 12/30/08 11:40 PM Re: Pop Piano Pro - Hot Tips and Mini Lessons
Dave123 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 203
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by blues flat 7:
Dave, You will not be hijacking the thread. I wanted to see if Pete would give some tips on his book with this thread, and we are all getting much more than expected. The audios that Pete and Rosa are doing are a big help. Any question that you ask here in the thread Dave, is going to help everyone.

Dale aka blues flat 7 [/b]
In a nutshell, as I take lessons and as I use the Alfred's course, practice scales, etc. I see me improving daily, what I do not see is heading in a direction I want to be in. All the things I am doing I have no doubt it will help me learn the piano. Some of the examples I have listened to on this thread is the direction I would like to go in.
I use a quote from you in the opening post
 Quote:
I do not really care at all for classical, so that is out
I am similar, I do like some classical and would like to play some classical pieces well, but that is not my goal or the direction I would like to go in.
I did get some DVD lessons from Mr Music Canada and I was surprised I did manage to get a couple his songs down quite well albeit not up to speed yet. I am not sure at this stage of the game if I am ready for the course, but my thoughts are my whole reason for me wanting to learn piano is right in that course, going off the information I have read and the samples I have heard.

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