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I use a stop watch to keep my piano log time and I use it for timing Canon. Never used it for other pieces. Funburger played Canon on U-tube in 3:33 and that gives me a goal time.


Mark

Mark, I started Book 3 about a month ago and have worked my way up to the Serenade, but I still have work to do on the Canon in Book 2. Since you seem to have mastered it I wonder if you could help me with the fingering on the last page where it says "Still Slower". My fourth finger after the triad is letting me down and I can't get it to play smoothly. Any suggestions?

I haven't mastered Canon yet...

In regard to your question I use the suggested 531 fingering for the triad of ADF# but move in tight so the pinkie can hit the F# then the 4 is right over the E ready to be struck fairly easy.

If its a strength or control issue with the normally weak 4 finger you might need to do some exercises. But if you made it to book 3 I wouldn't think it would be an issue.

Hope this helps..

PS: with the Serenade make sure you practice the Alberti base a lot. It makes a world of difference...

Mark...

Mark, it might be a strength issue. I don't recall having anything in book 2 that required use of the 4th finger in quite the same way. As it happens, I can only practice that section 2-3 times at a sitting as my wrist gets very tired. I'll try digging out an appropriate Hanon exercise. Do you use your arms to help you here?

The Alberti bass did not give me any problem. It seems that once I recognized the chords being used, I didn't have to read the LH and it moved along fairly easily. I am having some trouble with the 3 measures in the bottom line of page 1 though. It's a fair jump in the right hand and I don't have that going smoothly yet.

Bob

That area of Canon hasn't been a problem. Do you bring your hand forward? You get more control that way.

I also need to work on the bottom of page one in Serenade.

Hang in there, you will get it...

Mark, my teacher solved my fingering problem by suggesting I use 1-2-4 on the triads. I know this is not cricket, but since I'm not preparing for the Royal Conservatory, what does it matter. Besides, at my age, I'm lucky that my fingers work at all.

Regarding Serenade, I was so focussed on getting the Alberti Bass that I was excessively heavy with my left hand. It turns out that this piece is a very nice exercise in balance, whereby the left hand is played much softer than the right. I find that difficult to do, but it makes the piece more interesting to play and it sounds much nicer.

My teacher say what ever works for you is a good thing.

I thought I meet a wall when I first started Serenade because of so much contrary left hand work, But after a while it started to come together. Haven't played it close to clean yet.

Now that I've been exposed to pieces like The Chopin Etude, Danny Boy, Canon and Serenade, I'm less inclined to want to spend my time and effort on those labelled "Just for Fun". Mark, since you and I seem to be the only remaining partcipants in this thread, I was wondering what your thoughts were with respect to the "Just for Fun" pieces.

Hey! I'm still here! Tho, I admit, not real good at posting a lot...

I've also been out of the Alfred's book for a bit again, and have gotten back into it the last few weeks.

As for the Just For Fun pieces, I haven't really found any (so far) that have caused me to want to work them to fully polished "perfection." So, while we don't skip them, they are ones that my teacher and I often agree are "good enough," and then let them go. I have to admit that the ones that get to me are often the distillations of orchestral works to a piano piece. Some (not all, of course) just don't condense well and it's very hard to hear anything in them. And I am a person who has to hear the - hmm, not sure what to call it? Melody?- in the music to be able to play it. Otherwise, it's all just random notes to me, and has no cohesion. Sometimes, if I listen to the original, it helps, but sometimes, it is so different from the piano reduction that it just isn't any better. And so I've been struggling with the Scherezade piece and the Unfinished Symphony in Alfred's 3. Scherezade is finally starting to come together, but that Symphony- eek! I have to admit that, right now, I am enjoying the supplemental pieces I am working on more than Alfred's.

I haven't even tried the "Just for Fun" pieces. I so busy working on the regular book 3 stuff. Some are really tough...

I agree a piece has to have a sweet spot to my ear to fully get involved in it. Some book 3 pieces haven't done so, but many have.

I know why the Unfinished Symphony was unfininshed...

Mak, I'm sorry I forgot about you, but I'm glad my remark brought you out of the woodwork. Your comments made me feel a little guilty as I have been tempted to skip the "unofficial" pieces completely. I'm sure they must have some value, but I hate to invest a lot of time in something I don't like. At least in Book 2, the lessons were always couched in well-known pieces. I'm afraid I just don't care to learn Palmer's creations.

Do you, Mak and Mark, record your teacher playing the pieces you are working on. Perhaps I'm cheating by using my Zoom H2, but I couldn't practice without it.

Just to keep the record straight, I'm still working on Serenade trying to get the balance and timing right. I tend to speed up as I get into it. This week I've also started to work on the Prelude, skipping the Palmer pieces.

Bob

I don't record my teacher but she does play each piece. Especially one's that are very unfamiliar.

I agree with you about Palmer's pieces, those are not very interesting. I plow through them just enough to try to get some value out of them.

Prelude in D is excellent, check the video link of a gentleman playing on u-tube. Its on the opening post of this thread and a good example of what it should sound like...

I do not record my teacher playing, mainly because I have no easy way of doing so. No Zoom or anything like that.

If I am hesitant about one of Palmer's pieces in Alfred's, my teacher usually points out why it is there- even the Just For Fun pieces have some basis in the lessons that have gone before. Some do go back to much earlier things, but there is usually something. So we got thru them, but, as I said, many get tossed aside rather quickly. One thing they have done is help (a little, tiny bit) with my not being able to play something I can't "hear." Since these are originals, there is no recording I can look up (barring the occasional YouTube video) to help. And I guess that's one reason I will at least try them.

Mark- As for the Unfinished Symphony- this past week, when I was fighting those off-beats in the right hand and trying to fit the left hand dotted rhythms in there, my teacher said: "This is a hard piece because those rhythms are tricky to get right. That's probably why it's "unfinished." I replied: "Oh, so it was too hard for him, too??" LOL

So true...lol

That piece is killing me and Steal Away looks like a bear too...

Mark, thanks for the pointer to the U-tube video. My teacher has been after me about getting my hands into the keys, almost pushing on the fallboard. Watching the video gave me a better understanding of what my teacher was getting at.

Did you try the Bach Prelude after the Prelude in D?

Mak, the great thing about the Zoom H2/H4 is that I just turn it on, point it at the piano and record. No fuss, no muss, not wasting any of my teacher's time with setup etc. I then edit the pieces using Audacity and use "The Amazing SlowDowner" to slow them down if it's too fast for me in the beginning. The combination is a nice set of tools for learning to play.

HI Oldfingers - those fingers can't be too old - you really took off in Book 2 & zoomed thru it and now I find you here deep in Book 3 - good for you - I'll be joining you one of these months, but by then you'll probably be off into bigger & better things

Regards, JF

John Frank, well at 68, the fingers are pretty old, but thankfully, not yet too old to learn to play the piano.

I must say that what is happening to me is quite weird. I struggled for a couple of years trying to play from lead sheets, which, in retrospect, was not the right approach for me. Now that I'm into reading the notes and playing classical pieces, my fingers are responding surprisingly well. So far the only piece in Book 2 that I have not been able to play satisfactorily is the Canon as there is one measure on the last page that forces my 4th finger to do something it hasn't had to do before and the muscle is weak. But I keep working at it and it's getting better.

To be fair, with the lead sheet approach I spent a lot of time learning a very large number of chords which I used to practice by going around the circle over and over. I also played all the scales around the circle too so that I was developing some dexterity in my fingers. Although I don't exactly know why, I think this has probably been a big help in allowing me to progress as quickly as I have.

I continue to visit the Book 2 thread and notice that you are also progressing quite well. It won't be long before you are joining me, Mak and Mark. It will be great to have you along for the ride.

Bob

Progress note:

Well I spoke with my teacher at the end of practice and told her I felt I was falling behind and not playing some of the book 3 pieces as well as I liked and that I would like to go into a holding pattern and try to clean up everything up to where we are currently. We have been doing a piece a week for a long time and trying to get two pages down has been a struggle lately.

It's amazing when you add a piece a week how it just piles up...even with 2-3 hours of practice a day...

She thought that was a very good idea so after adding my new piece "Steal Away" we shall not move forward till I feel I have cleaned up everything. It's a great relief to take a break and concentrate on fine turning everything.

Now if I could just get rid of my 2 1/2 jobs...

Mark - I think that's a real good idea for you - at several points I felt the same urge - ultimately I decided to do what I call "concurrent review", which means that I'm always moving forward on new pieces, but at the same time I'm reviewing (in depth ) one or two old pieces that I originally started say about 6 months before - as I move ahead with each new piece I also move ahead with an old piece or two, thus "polishing off" or "cleaning up" as I go trudging forward - of course, being retired I have the time to do this - you have 2 1/2 jobs?

Regards, JF

P.S. I may have some time this next week 1 or 2 new pieces from Book 2 for you to upload - will PM you when they're ready.