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#1079660 - 02/06/09 05:24 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
IrishMak Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 1614
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by OldFingers:
Mak, I'm not a musician, but I know enough to know that the ability to hear the music in your head before you play it, is a gift. Have you ever thought about playing jazz piano?

Thank you for reminding me to slow down. It seems that I need to be reminded of that lesson almost weekly.

Bob [/b]
You and me both, Bob! You have no idea how many times my teacher says: "Slow down! Speed is easy to add. Learn to play it right[/b] first!" I think I should tape a sign that reads "S--L--O--W" across the front of my piano! LOL

As for the jazz stuff, I love jazz! But those tricksy rhythms are the killers for me. Sure, I hear 'em, but can I play 'em? Umm, no. But I have a book of jazz and blues stuff that I pick at occasionally. And I love to work on those old standards, too.
_________________________
-Mak

1889 Mason & Hamlin screwstringer upright
Kawai MP-4 digital

---------------------------
When life hands you lemons, throw them back and add some of your own. Stupid life.

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#1079661 - 02/07/09 05:49 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3602
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
I'm putting the fiishing touches on "A Classy Rag" (nice ragtime piece with no major challenges), and looking ahead I see the that the next piece in line is Clementi's "Prelude in D Minor", which from just glancing at the structure of the music doesn't appear to be a very difficult work.

However I notice that the time signature is indicated as a C with a vertical line thru it (as in the old "cents" symbol), which is common time cut in half (aka "cut time") or 2/2 time instead of 4/4 time. This means, of course that there is two beats per measure with a half note getting one beat. This also implies that quarter notes are treated as eighth notes and that eighth notes (of which there are many in the piece) are handled as sixteenth notes.

This all brings up two questions:

(1) there is no explanation here about "cut time" (nor is there a definition in the glossary) for those who may not be familiar with it - was this introduced previously in the first 2 Alfred books somewhere (I can't recall that it was)? Or is this a concept that the authors supposed that the student's teacher would explain (and demonstrate) at this point? It would seem that a brief intro to (or review of) the idea would have been nice at this point.

(2) when you worked on this piece did you play it in "cut time" adjusting the note values as appropriate, or did you simply "think" of the time signature as 4/4 time (ignoring cut time note values) and play it with the more accustomed note values in 4/4 time (which it would be easy enough to do) and perhaps speeding up the tempo to compensate)? You might have done this inadvertently if you hadn't noticed the cut time signature when you originally played it \:\)

Regards, JF

P.S. Edit to add that this may have been a misprint, but doubtful; the next piece in Book 3 in cut time is Sailor's Hornpipe on pg.90.
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.

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#1079662 - 02/07/09 11:38 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
IrishMak Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 1614
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
John-

The way I was taught to deal with cut time is to think of it as an indication of emphasis and speed. So you want a definite "two" feel to the music, with the emphasis on the first beat in the measure: Strong[/b] Weak | Strong[/b] Weak. And, in clasical music particularly, it indicates that the piece is meant to flow fairly quickly. But that's just what I was taught, and could be well off base.

As for that Prelude, the cut time indication is generally held to, and that piece is played rather quickly. I like it slower, but then I'm not going to be playing it at Carnegie Hall or anything! LOL
_________________________
-Mak

1889 Mason & Hamlin screwstringer upright
Kawai MP-4 digital

---------------------------
When life hands you lemons, throw them back and add some of your own. Stupid life.

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#1079663 - 02/07/09 12:31 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3602
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by IrishMak:
John-

The way I was taught to deal with cut time is to think of it as an indication of emphasis and speed. So you want a definite "two" feel to the music, with the emphasis on the first beat in the measure: Strong[/b] Weak | Strong[/b] Weak. And, in clasical music particularly, it indicates that the piece is meant to flow fairly quickly. But that's just what I was taught, and could be well off base.

[/b]
Mak - yes, that's exactly how I understood it - I've also noticed that a lot of marches are in cut time, and we all know how they clip along!

Thanks for your input, JF
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.

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#1079664 - 02/07/09 02:21 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
IrishMak Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 1614
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
Yes, indeed, most marches are in cut time. It is used to indicate that feeling of constant forward movement.
_________________________
-Mak

1889 Mason & Hamlin screwstringer upright
Kawai MP-4 digital

---------------------------
When life hands you lemons, throw them back and add some of your own. Stupid life.

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#1079665 - 02/07/09 03:04 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
OldFingers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 546
Loc: Boston, MA
JF and Mak, thanks for the lesson on cut-time. I am embarrassed to admit that when I worked on the Prelude I didn't even notice and my teacher didn't make an issue out of it. Perhaps it's because I simply tried to emulate his playing, which temporally was just as IrishMak explained it. His comment to me was to get a "rolling" feeling. I think I know what he means by this but I can't explain it.

JF, it's no wonder you don't need a teacher. Thanks again for your lesson "copying".

Bob
_________________________
Aspiring Retirement Home Lounge Pianist

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#1079666 - 02/07/09 03:46 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
DaveInMichigan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 307
Loc: SE Michigan
I agree it is for the feel and rhythm (measure wise and also phrase wise).

Sometimes you have to sing it out to get the feel (it also free yourself to express the music without worrying about your fingers and wrong notes, etc.)

It is the same with 6/8 versus a fast 3/4. Mathematically you can make the two the same in speed, but the feels are (should be) different.

I know Frank is familiar with classic hymns (sorry to others, I cannot think of a popular song as an example as I don't sing much popular songs), so take "Praise Him Praise Him" for example. It is 6/8. If you sing in 6/8, the feel (and slight and not overdone emphasis) should be:

One - two - One - two - PRAISE[/b] Him, PRAISE[/b] Him, JE[/b]sus our blessed reDEEM[/b]er

Whereas if we do it in 3/4, even after bringing up the speed so that it is the same as the 6/8 version, the emphasis would be more or less like

One two three One two three PRAISE[/b]--HIM[/b]--, PRAISE[/b]--HIM[/b]--, JE[/b]sus our BLES[/b]sed reDEEM[/b]ER

I don't know if I successfully communicated it. Well, I tried. \:\)
_________________________
Dave

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#1079667 - 02/07/09 05:08 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
DragonPianoPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 2462
Loc: Denver, CO
Dave,

Your counting shows that you understand the difference between 6/8 and 3/4.

Most 6/8 pieces are closer to 2/4 than to 3/4, and that is the meter you are describing. The pulses in 6/8 are on 1 and 4: Strong weak, Strong weak. One reason a composer would use 6/8 is to make it easier to notate as eighth notes rather than to use eighth note triplets in 2/4.

If you are looking for another time signature that is closer to 3/4 in feel, it would be 9/8. The pulses are Strong weak weak in both of these.

A key to help you understand how the composer wants the pulse to feel in these signatures is to notice how the eighth notes are beamed. If they are beamed in groups of 3, that indicates that 6/8 should feel like 2/4.

Rich
_________________________

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#1079668 - 02/10/09 10:53 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3602
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
I'm starting to work on the middle section of the "Prelude in D Minor" (I usually break a piece into study-sections based roughly on phrases, work on each separately for awhile and then put it all together) and when I came to the 15th & 16th measures (the 3rd & 4th measures of line 2 on the 2nd page) I came to a screeching halt and had to study the music for a little to figure out what was going on.

My final determination was that the 2 sets of 8th notes in measure 15 shown on the bass [/b] staff are to be played by the right [/b] hand because (1) the fingering as indicated is really twisted and torturous for the left hand and (2) there is no music indicated at all on the treble staff.

Now I know in the past when one hand played notes on the "opposite" staff there was usually some indication such as RH or LH as a guide, so they either forgot it here or figured by this stage you should be able to figure it out. But it did give me pause - did you find this to be the case with you when you played this piece?

Regards, JF
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.

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#1079669 - 02/10/09 02:13 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
IrishMak Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 1614
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
Yes, those are played with the right hand. The same figure occurs again on page 3. It really didn't give me any trouble, because when we got to those measures, my teacher said, "Use your right hand to play those." \:D
_________________________
-Mak

1889 Mason & Hamlin screwstringer upright
Kawai MP-4 digital

---------------------------
When life hands you lemons, throw them back and add some of your own. Stupid life.

Top
#1079670 - 02/10/09 02:36 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
OldFingers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 546
Loc: Boston, MA
In my case I had had my teacher play it for me and I saw that he had used his right hand, so I can't take any credit for having figured it out. JF, it's no wonder you don't need a teacher.

After having dealt with Prelude in C Minor at my lesson today, I talked my teacher into letting me skip forward to the Moonlight Sonata. I'll probably regret it, but I am anxious to try something serious, and I think I have most of the tools, but we'll see.
_________________________
Aspiring Retirement Home Lounge Pianist

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#1079671 - 02/10/09 03:51 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3602
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by IrishMak:
Yes, those are played with the right hand. The same figure occurs again on page 3. [/b]
Page 3? There's only 2 pages alloted for this piece in my All-In-One book. The figure is played again, but after the D.S. al Fine on this same page.

 Quote:
It really didn't give me any trouble, because when we got to those measures, my teacher said, "Use your right hand to play those." \:D [/b]
:D
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.

Top
#1079672 - 02/10/09 04:00 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3602
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by OldFingers:
In my case I had had my teacher play it for me and I saw that he had used his right hand, so I can't take any credit for having figured it out. JF, it's no wonder you don't need a teacher.
[/b]
Well, that remains to be seen in the long run. I've allowed for the possibility that as I move into more difficult repertoire some day (perhaps sooner than I would wish) I may be forced to give some serious consideration to engaging a teacher, if only on an occassional basis, to help with more complicated techniques and the finer points of artistic interpretation (especially with Classical works) - and learning the best ways to accompany singers and other instrumentalists, which I would like to be able to do in a very professional manner some day.

 Quote:
After having dealt with Prelude in C Minor at my lesson today, I talked my teacher into letting me skip forward to the Moonlight Sonata. I'll probably regret it, but I am anxious to try something serious, and I think I have most of the tools, but we'll see. [/b]
Go for it Bob - good luck and have fun!

Regards, JF
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.

Top
#1079673 - 02/10/09 05:01 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
IngridT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/07/08
Posts: 244
Loc: Netherlands
Oldfingers...hmmm...the moonlight sonata. I am still working on the 1st 1 1/2 page. I love it, and my teacher said 'the sound was there' (which I took as a compliment), but the big (octave and 9th) right hand stretches combined with the fact that you actually have to play some stuff with the fingers in between...I have the feeling I lack some necessary relaxation somewhere. I feel tension in my hands that shouldn't be there. So I am trying to take care of that issue before going further. The volume stuff is pretty tricky as well. Have to play a loud melody with your right little finger, while playing a soft 'background tune' with the other fingers OF THE SAME HAND! Whaaah!

Oh, and John, I looked at your right hand/left hand passage (then at least I'm prepared when i get there myself). Just looking at it I guess I would have drawn the right conclusion because of that very low D that is dangling at the bottom side of the bass cleff. It's just impossible to play that lefthanded together with the other notes....but you're right usually they make some kind of remark to highlight the 'other hand' thing. We are probably supposed to become good at stuff like this without additional guidance once we got this far.

I am working on the classy rag this week. Special Day is over and done!!

Ingrid

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#1079674 - 02/10/09 05:45 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
DaveInMichigan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 307
Loc: SE Michigan
Yes, I think they assume you don't need any guidance anymore. I don't have Book3 (or any book), but they have probably mentioned it before. If you look at Moonlight Sonata, there are plenty of places like this.

As for playing Moonlight Sonata, as Ingrid say, if you are familiar with the things that she mentioned, then I think it is ok, otherwise it might be a little frustrating. But there is always different views on this. Some says that whatever technique you need to learn, you will learn it when you learn the piece. Others say that it is better to learn the technique first (on smaller pieces, e.g.) before you get to the bigger piece.

That sounding out the main melody while playing the "accompaniment" in soft tone needs some time and practice. If you have played piano before and are a restarter, I think it is ok. If you only study from Alfred series, then I would recommend wait till later. Not that I think you cannot do it, but it will be a little frustrating.

When I restarted, I found that my theory, chords, harmony, listening, sight reading etc have improved a lot over the years, so reading Moonlight Sonata is easy for me, so I am doing it. Years ago just the reading of it would have given me headache or caused me to stop.

But it is in Book 3, so of course you can if you want to. \:\)
_________________________
Dave

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#1079675 - 02/10/09 05:53 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
IrishMak Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 1614
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by John Frank:
Page 3? There's only 2 pages alloted for this piece in my All-In-One book. The figure is played again, but after the D.S. al Fine on this same page.

[/b]
Umm, yeah, sorry. I was looking at the piece from my copy that I used my notation software to print out for my "keepers" notebook. I spread it to 3 pages to make it easier to read on the smaller, 8x10 printed sheets. My bad, for not realizing...
_________________________
-Mak

1889 Mason & Hamlin screwstringer upright
Kawai MP-4 digital

---------------------------
When life hands you lemons, throw them back and add some of your own. Stupid life.

Top
#1079676 - 02/10/09 07:00 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
OldFingers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 546
Loc: Boston, MA
 Quote:
Originally posted by IngridT:
Oldfingers...hmmm...the moonlight sonata. I am still working on the 1st 1 1/2 page. I love it, and my teacher said 'the sound was there' (which I took as a compliment), but the big (octave and 9th) right hand stretches combined with the fact that you actually have to play some stuff with the fingers in between...I have the feeling I lack some necessary relaxation somewhere. I feel tension in my hands that shouldn't be there. So I am trying to take care of that issue before going further. The volume stuff is pretty tricky as well. Have to play a loud melody with your right little finger, while playing a soft 'background tune' with the other fingers OF THE SAME HAND! Whaaah!
[/b]
Thanks for pointing out the pitfalls, which I am sure to fall into, but I think I'll try it for a couple of days. It's just that I have reached page 106 with the Ab exercises in front of me and I'm not inspired by the music I see in that section. Nor do I see anything in the remainder of the book that will help me with the sonata. So I really don't have any excuses.

I'm working on the first page and must admit to having difficulty figuring out the chords. Any suggestions?
_________________________
Aspiring Retirement Home Lounge Pianist

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#1079677 - 02/10/09 07:20 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
DaveInMichigan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 307
Loc: SE Michigan
 Quote:
I'm working on the first page and must admit to having difficulty figuring out the chords. Any suggestions?
It is mainly in C# minor (though it is hard to say that the whole is in C# minor because he cleverly changed from one part to another), but as a minor key, you would expect those familiar minor chords.

If you think C (Am rather) key, then you would expect Am, E7, Dm, those kind of keys, and basically you see the same thing except it is in C# minor key. The first measure is C#m inverted, of course.

But there are places where the tune changes to major tune, so you have E, A or A7, B7, Bm. etc.

Then there are place where there is progression. He changes one note at a time and beautiful leads to the next section, like E (inverted), Em (inverted), G7, etc.

If it is difficult to see it at first, just listen to it and feel it first, and close your eyes and don't think about the notes but the feel. They are familiar chords actually, just transposed to C#minor key, and they are often inverted too, so they don't look very familiar.
_________________________
Dave

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#1079678 - 02/10/09 07:31 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
OldFingers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 546
Loc: Boston, MA
 Quote:
Originally posted by DaveInMichigan:
It is mainly in C# minor (though it is hard to say that the whole is in C# minor because he cleverly changed from one part to another), but as a minor key, you would expect those familiar minor chords.
[/b]
I am ashamed to admit it, but I looked at the four sharps and was thinking Emajor even though the first chord was clearly C#-. Thanks for getting me off on the right footing. Please stand by as more questions will be forthcoming. You obviously know this piece very well indeed.
_________________________
Aspiring Retirement Home Lounge Pianist

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#1079679 - 02/10/09 08:06 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
OldFingers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 546
Loc: Boston, MA
 Quote:
Originally posted by DaveInMichigan:

If you think C (Am rather) key, then you would expect Am, E7, Dm, those kind of keys, and basically you see the same thing except it is in C# minor key.
[/b]
Dave, I'm going to press my luck a try for a free piano lesson tonight.

In Cmajor, the chords are Cmaj, Dmin7, Emin7, Fmaj, G7, Amin, Bmin7 flat 5. What are the chords associated with the relative minor Amin? Alfred's 3 discusses only the three triads Amin, Dmin, E7. How can I figure out the others given the three minor scales?

Bob
_________________________
Aspiring Retirement Home Lounge Pianist

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#1079680 - 02/10/09 08:11 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3602
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by IngridT:

Oh, and John, I looked at your right hand/left hand passage (then at least I'm prepared when i get there myself). Just looking at it I guess I would have drawn the right conclusion because of that very low D that is dangling at the bottom side of the bass cleff. It's just impossible to play that lefthanded together with the other notes....but you're right usually they make some kind of remark to highlight the 'other hand' thing. We are probably supposed to become good at stuff like this without additional guidance once we got this far.

I am working on the classy rag this week. Special Day is over and done!!

Ingrid [/b]
Yes, I noticed that large stretch between the low D and the other notes (a 10th or 11th) and there's no way for me to do that

I'm trying my best to finish off "Classy Rag" - I can play all the sections fine and at tempo, but when I try to put it all together there's always some dumb mistake - except that the mistake pops up at a different place each time - maybe it's the overall length, which is 52 measures with repeats and playing the intro as a Coda - but I'll keep beating on it until I get a good recording.

Regards, JF
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.

Top
#1079681 - 02/10/09 08:55 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
DaveInMichigan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 307
Loc: SE Michigan
 Quote:
What are the chords associated with the relative minor Amin?
Hi Bob, while I like to read about theoretical stuffs, I didn't go through music school formally, so my answers might be incomplete (or can be heredetic too). ;\)

In general, any chord can go with any chord, but there are certain chords and progressions that are pleasing (and what is pleasing is subjective and cultural too).

But given something like Moonlight Sonata which many find so pleasing, you can pretty much tell that the chords are not strange or eccentric.

I don't know all the chords commonly associated with minor keys, especially since there are natural minor, harmonic minor, and melodic minor (and Beethoven is playing with those in Moonlight Sonata).

But if play these chords going up:
Am E7 Am Dm E7

and these chords going down:
Am G F E E7

They should sound familiar (and harmonious, nothing strange or odd). You can also invert them and play them and in any kind of broken style.

Then if you transpose those to C# minor (or E key signature) and play those, and invert those and play them (as full chord and broken), they will sound familiar too, and you will find them in Moonlight.

Maybe if you try the above as a suggested exercise until you are familiar with the sound, then when you approach Moonlight, you will feel easier (and it is a joy too when you can say, "ah, I know what Beethoven is doing here."
_________________________
Dave

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#1079682 - 02/11/09 10:38 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
OldFingers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 546
Loc: Boston, MA
 Quote:
Originally posted by DaveInMichigan:

But if play these chords going up:
Am E7 Am Dm E7

and these chords going down:
Am G F E E7
[/b]
Dave, what do you mean by "going up" and "going down".

 Quote:
Originally posted by DaveInMichigan:

... and it is a joy too when you can say, "ah, I know what Beethoven is doing here." [/b]
Dave, I couldn't agree more. It's really neat being able to understand how the chord sequence affects the trajectory of the overall sound.

Thanks for your generosity in sharing your knowledge with me.

Bob
_________________________
Aspiring Retirement Home Lounge Pianist

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#1079683 - 02/11/09 11:53 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
DaveInMichigan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 307
Loc: SE Michigan
 Quote:
Dave, what do you mean by "going up" and "going down".
What I mean is not just playing the chord in root position (although you can too), but play it in some ascending order, for example (the following are notes, not chord)

C E A (for Am key), then
D (E) G# B (for E7)
E A C (for Am again but note the inversion)
F A D (for Dm)
G# B E (for E or E7)

so instead of playing just the chord, you are actually using the chords to make melody too.

Then break the chord in any way you want but do the progression. We are not talking about serious composition here, but just enjoy them, like

For Am, play A C E C E C A E A E C E C, etc. (don't even have to think, just play any way on the notes of Am), then move to E7 and do the same, the move to Am....

And you will be an instant mini-Beethoven. (ok, my strange sense of humor. I am a newbie here, so I hope I am offending anyone especially those doing serious composition. I am just joking). \:\)

 Quote:
Thanks for your generosity in sharing your knowledge with me.
Just remember that I am not a musician, music major and teacher or anything. I am just a restarter but I never really stopped in the past, and I like reading, including some theoretical stuffs. I am sharing what I know, but they can be wrong or not fully accurate in strict musical terms.

But I am a little concerned that I might be talking too much in an Alfred Book 3 thread though. It might be a little distracting/bothering to some. I don't know if we should move this to a separate thread.... but if no one objects, I don't mind doing it here either.
_________________________
Dave

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#1079684 - 02/12/09 05:37 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3602
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by DaveInMichigan:

But I am a little concerned that I might be talking too much in an Alfred Book 3 thread though. It might be a little distracting/bothering to some. I don't know if we should move this to a separate thread.... but if no one objects, I don't mind doing it here either. [/b]
Dave - I, for one, have absolutely no objections - in fact I strongly encourage you to continue to participate here, including offfering us your ideas about music theory in general, and the application of it to specific pieces we're working on.

At this stage of our developement we probably should be discussing some music theory now and then.

I've worked my way thru both "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Music Theory" and "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Arranging and Orchestration" so I know a little about these things now (I'm a certified "Complete Idiot" \:D ) and might just jump into your discussions once in awhile.

Regards, JF

Edited to add that inspite of their titles the two books I mentioned above are, in fact, nicely written and, as introductions to their respective subjects, very informative.
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.

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#1079685 - 02/12/09 07:50 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
IngridT Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/07/08
Posts: 244
Loc: Netherlands
 Quote:
But I am a little concerned that I might be talking too much in an Alfred Book 3 thread though. It might be a little distracting/bothering to some. I don't know if we should move this to a separate thread.... but if no one objects, I don't mind doing it here either.

Hey Dave (InMichigan)! The moonlight sonata is part of Alfred's book 3, so don't worry!!

And Oldfingers... also about the monlight sonata:

 Quote:
Thanks for pointing out the pitfalls, which I am sure to fall into, but I think I'll try it for a couple of days
I didn't mean to discourage you! I am glad you are picking it up, and looking forward to share our progress! (or lack of it, I haven't played it at all the last few days. i am re-polishing my Satie pieces, which I had been neglecting for a few weeks, and I was not glad to find out that that had a significant impact on the quality of my playing. GRRR! Keeping up some limited type of 'repertoire' is not easy. At least not for me.)

Ingrid

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#1079686 - 02/12/09 07:29 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
Mark... Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4382
Loc: Jersey Shore
I see no problem keeping the Moonlight conversation here, in fact after Fur Elise its on my to do list. I did a watered down version two years ago and look forward to the full version.

Mark...

PS: IngridT, I was toying with a Satie piece at the music store while I was waiting for my lesson and one of the other piano teachers asked me what was the name of the piece and how must she liked it. I only played like 4 measure too... \:D

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#1079687 - 02/12/09 09:35 PM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
OldFingers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 546
Loc: Boston, MA
 Quote:
Originally posted by DaveInMichigan:

.. so instead of playing just the chord, you are actually using the chords to make melody too.
[/b]
Dave, I get it, you are just inverting the chords such that you can have a chromatic progression on top to make a simple melody.

When you look at "moonlight sonata" from this point of view, the melody is unbelievably simple, but the chords underneath the melody and the way they are played make it so beautiful.

I've managed to play through the first page very very slowly, but I can handle the 9th so I don't think there is going to be a deal-breaker. But getting all four pages to speed with some musicality will be something else.


 Quote:
Originally posted by DaveInMichigan:

But I am a little concerned that I might be talking too much in an Alfred Book 3 thread though. It might be a little distracting/bothering to some. I don't know if we should move this to a separate thread.... but if no one objects, I don't mind doing it here either. [/b]
I got you into this discussion as a result of my work in Alfred's Book 3. When I got to the last section of new theory for the Ab major scale, I couldn't generate any enthusiasm for the pieces in that section and none of them had anything to do with the sonata, so I jumped forward. So not to worry, it's my fault. Besides, with Ingrid, JF, Mark and me on board, we have a quorum.

Thanks again for your help. I have some more questions but I'd ask then at another time.
_________________________
Aspiring Retirement Home Lounge Pianist

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#1079688 - 02/13/09 07:26 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3602
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
Mak is probably with us on theory discussions, and so would be piano4 and Cyborg . . .haven't heard much from those latter two lately though . . .

Currently trying to (1) put the finishing touches on Handel's Minuet No. 1 from the Royal Fireworks Suite and (2) still get a decent recording of "A Classy Rag" while continuing to plow thru the Clementi Prelude piece.

Also started my "concurrent review" process of selected Book 3 pieces & currently hammering "Super, Special, Silly, Stupid, Sucky Song" (or whatever it's called) into submission! \:D

Regards, JF

Historical footnote: Clementi was considered the most highly skilled and technically dymanic pianist of his time - he was a contemporary of Mozart and they once met in a head-to-head competition where it was generally agreed that Clementi came out slightly on top from the standpoint of "dazzling the audience", although it was conceded by most that Mozart was a little smoother, polished, more accurate and with much better improvisational skills (from the book "The Great Pianists" by Harold Schoenberg).
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.

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#1079689 - 02/13/09 10:04 AM Re: Alfred's Basic and ALL in One Adult Piano Course Book #3
IrishMak Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 1614
Loc: New Hampshire, USA
Oh, yeah, I am definitely in favor of the theory discussions. It does help to know how a piece is put together, and it certainly can make it easier to see the framework underneath all the embellishments. I may not always comment, but I read with much interest.
_________________________
-Mak

1889 Mason & Hamlin screwstringer upright
Kawai MP-4 digital

---------------------------
When life hands you lemons, throw them back and add some of your own. Stupid life.

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