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#1081359 - 01/30/08 03:23 AM I am into Magic - the Piano kind
Rosanna Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: San Francisco Bay area
Just thought I'd mention to some of the dear folks here that I just started PianoMagic this weekend - finally! I have asked enough questions about it that I assume some of you may be interested to find out this latest development.

It's definitely a different way of thinking and learning, and it's not "traditional". So far I am approaching each lesson with a sense of excitement of discovery. I haven't taken paid lessons of any kind for a long time and these lessons just keep me so interested.

Any slim hope that I may prepare a piece (playing from score) for the upcoming recital is gone. :p I am spending a bit more time over at PM and at the piano learning. But don't do anything I won't do - I am still keeping an eye on all of you!
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#1081360 - 01/30/08 05:05 AM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
gmm1 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1674
Loc: Spokane WA
Good luck kiddo. I will be watching your progress as well.

Sounds like you are going to "dive in the deep end" and put aside everything for a while. As you know, I think that's the smart thing to do, based on my short roadtrip the other way.

Keep in touch.
_________________________
"There is nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself." Johann Sebastian Bach/Gyro

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#1081361 - 01/30/08 06:15 AM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
text Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 73
Loc: Windsor, United Kingdom
...another convert methinks !! Just wait until Brother Lee reads this \:\)

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#1081362 - 01/30/08 08:21 AM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
Seaside_Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2160
Loc: Blackpool, UK
Brother Lee?...LOL

text, I have already said "hello" to Rosanna over there and have been looking forward to her joining for quite a while \:\) I am really excited about how things are going to pan out...lets wait and see ;\)

To be honest I'm sure she's in for a real blast I can just feel it...Rosanna, to let you know I just can't wait for the pennies to start to dropping

regards


Lee \:\)
_________________________
My Piano Journey Blog...Seaside Lee's Piano Journey...
New Piano Video...Learn To Play "I Dreamed A Dream" with Seaside

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#1081363 - 01/30/08 08:25 AM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
Rerun Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 507
Loc: Louisiana
[quote : Any slim hope that I may prepare a piece (playing from score) for the upcoming recital is gone.]


Jeepers, you'll be ready to post something by ear then anyway, and I can't wait to hear it! \:\)
_________________________
Rerun

"Seat of the pants piano player" DMD







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#1081364 - 01/30/08 09:00 AM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
text Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 73
Loc: Windsor, United Kingdom
...I know Lee I was also at the initiation ceremony.

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#1081365 - 01/30/08 09:13 AM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17698
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
 Quote:
Originally posted by Rosanna:
So far I am approaching each lesson with a sense of excitement of discovery. I haven't taken paid lessons of any kind for a long time and these lessons just keep me so interested.

[/b]
That's terrific, Rosanna! That's what piano should be all about.

Looking forward to hearing regular progress reports from you. \:\)
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1081366 - 01/31/08 01:54 AM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
Rosanna Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: San Francisco Bay area
 Quote:
Originally posted by gmm1:
I will be watching your progress as well.
[/b]
 Quote:
Originally posted by rerun:

you'll be ready to post something by ear then anyway, and I can't wait to hear it!
[/b]
Uh-oh, no pressure pleazzze...

I posted a question over at PM yesterday, and another member's answer (actually Troy, who is also a PW member) made me see a whole different perspective on playing by ear (vs playing by score.) It's exciting and scary at the same time. It's a whole new awareness, new way of relating to music than what I consciously know, or have been trained for. I also realize that whatever piano experience I have doesn't count at all - at least not at this stage. But the good thing is that I was made conscious of how I relate to music now, and can put that aside in order to learn a new way.

We've heard some PM members warn that some people with previous piano experience don't progress as well, or don't like the PM method. I think it may not be due to closed mindedness, or trying to go too fast, etc. It may just be not seeing the existing "filter"/awareness that they carry, and thus missing the "right" way to relate to PM. I for one was in that situation, unknowingly, until I got a very enlightening answer from Troy.

Sheesh, I may sound like Seaside someday, the way I am extolling the virtues of being in PM. :p
_________________________

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#1081367 - 01/31/08 03:12 AM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
Sundew Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 281
Loc: England
It's lovely to read and feel such enthusiasm Rosanna. \:\) Have a great time there and I look forward to reading about, and hearing, your progress.

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#1081368 - 01/31/08 02:33 PM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
TonyB Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 314
Loc: Twin Cities
Hi all:

This Piano Magic sounds interesting. Though I am involved in the Shinn course for the next year or two, I will at some point be interested in looking at Piano Magic as another approach to learn with in addition to what I will already have learned. However, I looked at the site and it appears to me that you would need to be running something other than Linux to have the necessary tools to use the videos and whatever other teaching materials the site presents. Is this true?

Thanks,

Tony
_________________________
my blog: http://ajourneyintomusic.blogspot.com

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#1081369 - 01/31/08 03:08 PM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
Astra Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 391
Loc: Slovenia
Hi Tony!

Go to the site and try to register. You will see that before you can register there's first a compatibility check. If you 'pass' it, then you will be able to use PianoMagic.
_________________________
ex - pian00b

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#1081370 - 01/31/08 03:18 PM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
TonyB Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 314
Loc: Twin Cities
Astra:

Thanks! I will try that. Reading all the discussions about Piano Magic, that method seems quite viable, and I am interested in checking it out as an addition to what I am already doing sometime in the future. Maybe that is not the best way to do it, but right now I want to stay focused on my current course until I finish it. But I also am intrigued by the things people are saying about Piano Magic.

Thanks,

Tony
_________________________
my blog: http://ajourneyintomusic.blogspot.com

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#1081371 - 01/31/08 06:56 PM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
bigbeardale Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/06
Posts: 49
Loc: PA
 Quote:
Originally posted by TonyB:
Hi all:

This Piano Magic sounds interesting. it appears to me that you would need to be running something other than Linux to have the necessary tools to use the videos and whatever other teaching materials the site presents. Is this true?

Thanks,

Tony [/b]
Hi Tony
I am a member over at Piano Magic, and sometimes I use my mepis linux cds in live mode, and everything seems to work fine.

Dale

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#1081372 - 01/31/08 08:08 PM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
TonyB Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 314
Loc: Twin Cities
Dale:

Thanks for the info! That definitely tells me what I needed to know.

Thanks,

Tony
_________________________
my blog: http://ajourneyintomusic.blogspot.com

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#1081373 - 02/01/08 05:39 PM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
troy1troy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 90
Loc: USA
Wow Rosanna! I didn't realize that I made my point that well. I usually just ramble and don't make sense. I'm REALLY glad you understand......that's probably the biggest hurdle for folks with previous experience.

You've been there for only a few weeks, and I assume you already see why you need to check your experience at the door? It's not because it doesn't apply. It's because it "temporarily" gets in the way of seeing things in a different perspective.

After a good amount of time with PM, you'll be shocked at how much better you'll understand the "written stuff".

Take care,

Troy

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#1081374 - 02/01/08 11:43 PM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
Rosanna Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: San Francisco Bay area
Troy, I have to say your answer in that PM thread, among all the others, was THE answer. Even Mike's didn't quite do it for me.

I have been wanting to send you a pvt msg just to say thank you, but there is some nasty software interaction in my computer that makes it not possible for me to use that function over in PMMO. Glad you see this thread here - Thanks!
_________________________

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#1081375 - 02/02/08 05:24 PM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
dvs cycles Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 158
Loc: SoCal
This thread made me curious so I went to PianoMagic and looked around.
So this is all online with no book?
My computer is no where near my piano and won't ever be.
He relates piano to dog training?
I consider myself a fair dog obedience trainer having raised 2 semi obedient Shar Pei over the last 17 years but spoiled them rotten and made them fat with treats.
Do I put candy on the piano and everytime I think I did good take one out.
I imagine getting fatter just thinking about it. \:D

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#1081376 - 02/02/08 06:08 PM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
Rosanna Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: San Francisco Bay area
dvs cycles, good thing I am not a candy-ohlics!

I have experience in teaching in my previous job. From these early PM lessons, I would say Mike happens to have a very unique way of bringing the students to the water, so to speak, and letting them make their own learning and discoveries. His languaging may be rather unconventional, but then he is being true to himself. For the lessons where I can tell the underlying intent of where he is guiding the students, it actually all makes sense. One has to be careful not to get too stuck on his pedagogical language and means. (I am not implying that you are.) I actually find his means to be rather entertaining and also very thoughtful underneath.

I told you guys. I am at risk of sounding like Seaside_Lee the second. (Hmmm, "SL II" does have a certain royal look to it. \:D )
_________________________

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#1081377 - 02/03/08 12:14 AM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
Elssa Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1484
Loc: NY
"He relates piano to dog training?"

I'm a life-long "cat person", never owned a dog, am my cat's human, etc., but I still find PMMO very helpful and useful, and believe me, I wouldn't stick around for one minute if I wasn't learning a lot musically from it and getting my "treats" (tuna preferred). \:\)

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#1081378 - 02/03/08 10:10 AM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
Rerun Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 507
Loc: Louisiana
quote DVS cycles: This thread made me curious so I went to PianoMagic and looked around.
So this is all online with no book?
________________________________________

Yep, pretty scary huh?
___________________________________________

quote: My computer is no where near my piano and won't ever be.
_____________________________________________

Yep, he prefers that the piano be inside.
______________________________________________

quote: He relates the piano to dog training.
_______________________________________________

Jeepers, you are on a roll, move your treats under the piano. \:\)


Mike's no snob. It's about having some fun while you are learning. \:\)
_________________________
Rerun

"Seat of the pants piano player" DMD







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#1081379 - 02/03/08 12:13 PM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
Seaside_Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2160
Loc: Blackpool, UK
Hey DVS \:\)


we like it in the DAWG pound dude ;\)


Lee \:\)
_________________________
My Piano Journey Blog...Seaside Lee's Piano Journey...
New Piano Video...Learn To Play "I Dreamed A Dream" with Seaside

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#1081380 - 02/03/08 08:43 PM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
Kawaigirl1 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 989
Loc: Toronto
This new adventure sounds exciting and fun Rosanna....keep us inform of your progress
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flickr

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#1081381 - 02/03/08 09:49 PM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4195
Loc: Arizona.
Rosanna;

I too will be looking forward to hearing (and listening) to your PM progress.

As you may know, I have invented my own home-brew method of learning piano which revolves around two basic principals; cheating and stealing!.

The "cheating" part comes from my use of some form of a written score that I use as a guide to improvise from.

The "stealing" portion comes from closely listening to what many of the PM players are doing in the performances and copying it.

I really love Lee's full usage of the ENTIRE keyboard when he plays a tune. Making any piece sound full and rich (like a one person orchestra) really appeals to me and I like the way many of the PM students/players do it.

The only pitfall I see is Mikes strict adhearance to NOT using any written score whatsoever as that may be counter productive to what he's trying to teach you to do.

While I fully understand his reasons for doing so, I would never have been able to learn pieces like Nefeli, To Zanarkand, Path of Repentence etc as I've never heard these tunes before and so I could not "humm" them.

Even if I could humm them, they are way too complicated to play by ear (IMO).

Still, the proofs in the pudding and I have only very positive compliments for what many of the PM students have accomplished which is why I'm eager to see your progress as well.

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#1081382 - 02/03/08 10:28 PM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
Rosanna Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: San Francisco Bay area
Hi Mr SH,

I am as curious as you are to see how I will progress! \:\)

Your stealing and cheating have served you well from what I can tell! I am not that good learning things without any guidance, so I doubt very much I can get anywhere by trial and error. It would cause me too much frustration - and when it's no fun, I would just give up.

As for learning without any sheet music (a la PM), I think it boils down to what one wants to do. For me, I am very glad about this particular aspect of PM. If I am allowed to "cheat" by reading lead sheets, I will never develop my ears - not just for the melody, but for hearing chord changes in general. I do see the pitfall, if you want to call it that, that with PM, it may be challenging to play the "new age" tunes, as they really aren't singable. I imagine it's quite possible to play improv based on the hummable skeletons of those songs tho'. [Senior PM members, feel free to jump in!]

But like I said, it boils down to where one wants to get to. Luckily, if I want to play the new-age pieces, I can sight-read! (Jab, jab \:D )) But it turns out I would love to play pop singable tunes - Bee Gees included, Monica! And boy, I watched Mike play on some PM videos. Wow, I love it!

Anyway, with ABF's eyes on me, I hope I can make y'all proud!
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#1081383 - 02/04/08 12:04 AM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4195
Loc: Arizona.
I would like to see a combo of lead sheets, PM methods, and improvising all wrapped into one.

I guess THAT'S what I'm trying to do but I can't speak of the PM portion since I've never taken the PM course. (Again, that's where the "stealing" portion comes in!).

I do know of, er..um, *some* un-named member of PM that DOES use lead sheets but like I said, I think Mike discourages that.

If Mike offered a course that combined the pricipals of the PM methods along with using lead sheets and written scores, I would jump in in a second. Again, I have no idea if this is possible as may just be counter productive.

I guess I'll just keep on cheating and stealing various piano methods as in some weird way, it works for me.

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#1081384 - 02/04/08 03:24 AM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
Seaside_Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2160
Loc: Blackpool, UK
Hi Mr S-H

 Quote:
If Mike offered a course that combined the pricipals of the PM methods along with using lead sheets and written scores, I would jump in in a second.
Why would he do that?

His course is about learning to play solo piano by ear and the way to do that is to play without lead sheets or written music :p

You can already play with lead sheets and writen music the only bit you want to learn is how to PBE and thats the bit he teaches ;\) :p

BTW...Mike uses lead sheets all the time and can read music too...its not forbidden it just doesn't help much when learning to play by ear (or else everyone would simply be able to do it just by reading lead sheets or when playing written music wouldn't they?)


regards


Lee \:\)

Im looking forward to see how "SL II" is going to do, too
_________________________
My Piano Journey Blog...Seaside Lee's Piano Journey...
New Piano Video...Learn To Play "I Dreamed A Dream" with Seaside

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#1081385 - 02/04/08 04:29 PM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4195
Loc: Arizona.
Lee:

I must admit that being able to sight read along with the ability to play by ear can be an incredible combination.

Someone could play scores that they have never heard before by sightreding and once they get the jist of the piece, embellish it with their own personal inflections.

To be honest, I think the piano player with the greatest advantage in any situation is someone who can proficiently do both. (kind of a best of both worlds scenario).

I can sightread music, just not very good but ultimately can get through an advanced beginer/intermediate piece.

I try very very hard to learn how to play by ear and am doing so with some succsess.

So far, I have accomplished this by doing two things:

1.) Paying VERY close attention to where certain sounds and combinations of sounds come from (and memorizing them).

2.) As nutty as this may sound, I consider myself to be an athority of how NOT to do certain things!. I.e, I know why you should'nt stick a scewdriver in an electrical socket!. ..I know why you don't lick the frost on a freezer with your tongue!. I even know why you don't want to try and light a fart on fire as a college prank!.

This sort of applies to my piano learning experiences. I know what combinations of notes DON'T work together even though I have no idea of the actual theory behind it.

I just know that with much daily practice I have been able to make the connection between many compatibly sounding notes and chords as well as numerous combinations of notes and chords that just don't work.

while I do have my reasons for doing my "dumb-luck" way of figuring stuff out, my comprehension of the newly learned matterial is much better as now I not only know what works, but what does'nt as well.
I admit this is NOT the most effecient learning method and is in many ways re-inventing the wheel. I guess my only response would be that although my method may not be efficient, it IS effective; at least for me.

No matter what learning methods are used, the bottom line is that in order for them to be *effective*, the student must be able to respond to it and make noticable progress. Having fun while doing so is also paramount for the longevity of any activity as well.

I am making progress using my wacky methods and still having a lot of fun in the process so I guess I am meeting my goals. That said, I am always open to better, more efficient methods of learning and would highly encourage others to do the same.

I am NOT willing to give up my written scores/lead sheets just yet but at the same time, I would be willing to learn how to play by ear in the abscense of them. Ultimately, my goal is to combine the two into a deadly combination or arsenal from which to draw from.

This is why I am very much looking forward to hearing and listening to Rosanna's progress.

Btw, Lee. I don't know if I ever asked you but can you read music?/sightread?. Just wondering 'cuz you seem to have a good grasp on the PBE aspect of playing music.

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#1081386 - 02/04/08 04:53 PM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
Seaside_Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2160
Loc: Blackpool, UK
Hi Mr SH

If you are having fun...then thats all that matters IMHO \:\)

I have a feeling you are going to be thrilled with Rosanna's progress ;\) \:\)

 Quote:
Btw, Lee. I don't know if I ever asked you but can you read music?/sightread?
I can read a lead sheet in the key of C, F and G however only at slow speed...tricky keys? not a chance in heck!

I cannot read music at the moment


Lee \:\)
_________________________
My Piano Journey Blog...Seaside Lee's Piano Journey...
New Piano Video...Learn To Play "I Dreamed A Dream" with Seaside

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#1081387 - 02/04/08 08:32 PM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
troy1troy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 90
Loc: USA
Mr. SH,

Lee has essentially mentioned this, but I just wanted to mention that things at Piano Magic aren't quite that dogmatic. Your methods (both cheating and stealing ;\) ) obviously work for you...all we have to do is listen.

However, the goal at PM isn't to make you "give up" the rest of the piano methods. It is just encouraged that you put them on hold while your trying to learn a new method. You don't even really have to put them on hold. Other methods don't interfere with PM. It's just that other methods take your time away from PM hence slowing your progress with PM.

You've been around here enough and have heard these things 1000 times, but your post made it sound like once you join PM, everything else goes into the fire. I just wanted to make sure that you knew that isn't the case.

Even though you play beautifully...much better than me. I think you would benefit from PM because you wouldn't have to "cheat and steal"....you'd learn to do it all by your self.

Just my 2 cents.

Best of luck....

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#1081388 - 02/04/08 09:01 PM Re: I am into Magic - the Piano kind
Rosanna Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: San Francisco Bay area
Mr SH, I second what Troy says 110%. For someone like you who already has developed an ear, you'll speed to the more advanced lessons and start your "cheating and stealing" there. [Edit: just discovery really, not cheating nor stealing.] For me, if I use lead sheet (which, ahem, Lee supposedly did, naughty, naughty), I would never develop my ear. But you are past that stage already!

Sheesh Troy, your thinking/perspective works for me like a glove!! I couldn't have said it better!

 Quote:
Originally posted by Seaside_Lee:
I have a feeling you are going to be thrilled with Rosanna's progress
Yikes, pressure!! I can't take it!!
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