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Hi everyone!

I searched through some of the newbie threads and found a lot of useful information, but not everything I was looking for. So I figured I'd start my own thread with a few questions.

I'm a 22 year old University student in Canada and I've recently acquired a taste for playing music. I've been playing the acoustic guitar for about 8 months now and I try to play at least an hour a day. I enjoy learning songs via tabs and just having fun with them. I took lessons for about 3 months while I was working in the summer, but now I just am trying to improve on my own.

Recetly, I've really wanted to learn to play the piano for two reasons. Firstly, it sounds really nice and secondly, it would be really cool if at parties to pick up and play some more modern music (I listen to stuff like Coldplay, Keane, etc. I'm not huge on classical, but I enjoy it too).

From what I've read, everyone says to go with a 88 Key Electronic Piano with Weighted Keys. I think this is what I'm aiming for -- does anyone know where I can get one for fairly cheap in Canada? Or even somewhere they sell used things? Any good music forums with for sale sections?

Is it necessary I take lessons? I was thinking about taking a course through my school (University of Toronto) to learn some of the basics of music theory anyways. I've read on another forum that taking lessons to begin is really important because it teaches you how to move your hands, arms, and posture and without it you're almost guaranteed carpel tunnel syndrome if you start with bad habbits. As I said before, my goal is not so much to be able to play classical music, but to be able to just hang around with some friends and play some coldplay, keane, oasis, and other more modern music. Would it be best to just learn to read music and start playing? Or are there some good books to follow? Online tutorials?

I want the piano to improve my overall sense of music. Improve my ear. Most importantly I want to have fun with it!

Oh, and one more thing. I spend my summers out west working. Are things like Electronic Pianos hard to transport via Airplane? I obviously wouldn't be able to take it on board, plus I wouldn't really have the space with me carrying a guitar and my laptop. But do they come with cases? Can I check them in safely? Or are they too fragile? Most of my learning would probably be in the summer when I have more free time.

I'm open to any suggestions!

Thanks!
Asim

Hi Asim,

Welcome to the forum! Here's just a few random reactions to your questions:

1.) You're not guaranteed to get carpal tunnel syndrome without having a teacher, but I do believe it is an enormous help to have at least one or two lessons where a teacher can evaluate your posture and seating and hand positioning. I know that I developed back/shoulder pain that was resolved completely once a teacher friend of mine pointed out I was sitting too close to the keyboard.

2.) Check out your university course offerings. In addition to basic music theory classes, most universities also offer beginning keyboard or piano instruction classes, which would be a cheap and easy way of accomplishing my point #1.

3.) Electronic pianos come in all sizes and shapes. Some look just like regular pianos and would be difficult to transport. Some are just the keyboard itself and lack a stand and would be easier to transport. In the latter case I would make sure to save the cardboard box and all shipping inserts/supplies, and then I'd probably ship it UPS to the summer address.

4.) There are lots of self-teaching resources available. Do a search of the archives for 'self teaching' or 'self-teaching' and see what it gets you. Try searching as the topic of a thread if just a plain search results in too many hits.

hope this helps...

Hi - firstly welcome to the forum! My uncle stays out in Toronto, so I've been past the Uni (what was that thing about Spad'i'na / Spad'ee'na Street, again?!)

You are right - typically weighted keys are the best option in terms of learning to play piano.

Uh-oh - looks like I'm in trouble!

Obviously bad habits / posture / movements are an important issue, and it would be foolish of me to suggest otherwise. However, I haven't really checked my posture yet - I was more concerned with playing (or trying to) play the instrument.

In terms of the case issue - I'm sure there was a post recently about that. You could maybe do a 'search' and hunt for posts containing that word. It was probably in the digital piano forum. I personally would be wary of taking my beloved piano on a plane, but I'm sure it will have been done tons of times before. If the worst comes to the worst, there is always an option of buying a real cheap 61-key keyboard just for the summer?

Not being local to Canada, I can't help with locations / dealers to buy pianos.

You will probably find the guitar a good help with trying to play coldplay / keane stuff. If you can learn the chord progressions fairly well, then you just have to learn the keys for the progressions on piano. (i always find it easier to work out songs on guitar than piano, i don't know why)

Music lessons will certainly do no harm, worth it if you have the chance.

All the best,
Euan.

no, it's not guaranteed to get any injuries without taking lessons or having a teacher, because i am an example of it! for about 5 years, i had been teaching myself playing and never acquired any bad posture, bad hand positions or injuries. one reason is that i went through a basic instruction book and then read a lot of books on techniques and i was very conscious about right posture, body/hand/finger positions. i was constantly watching myself or my hands through a mirror on the side of piano to see if ever my posture or hands looking any odd when i was playing. i had taken some dance lessons before (althogth quite a while ago), so that i had awareness over posture and body isolation stuff. when i finally got a teacher and took the first ever lesson with him, he's even happy with my techniques and hand positions. he said that i had nothing to be unlearned but just need to build/add more to what i had. to me, what he said was a huge compliment, even though i played everything pretty badly for him that day.

however, a good teacher would make your learning faster and more effective, and you could get instant feedback on what you do. but then again, a bad teacher would make things worse for you.

My suggestion, if you're the type who just wants
to have fun, is to get one of those 61-key
portable keyboards. They are lightweight,
easily portable, about the general size
and bulk of a guitar, durable, and can be
got for about $150.00 (US) or less new with AC
adapter--even less used. (Even the most compact
88-key weighted stage piano will be about 50 inches
long and 30 lbs., which is not that convenient
to carry around easily--and the least expensive
one would be about $400.00 (US) new.)

Some people riducule 61-key portables,
but I consider them every bit as much a piano
as a concert grand--for example, the piano
that Bach owned had only 49 keys. You can
play all kinds of music on them without needing
more keys. Several people on the forums are
taking classical lessons on them. The keys
are unweighted, so there will be a slight
physical adjustment you'd have to make when
you switch to an acoustic or weighted keyboard,
but this is a minor thing.

A piano, in theory, is much easier to play than
a guitar, because there is no special physical
skill needed to make it sound: you just press
the keys in the right combination, and
the built-in mechanism, or circuitry, produces
the sound for you without you having to find the
right fret, and so forth. So it would be
possible to instruct yourself; for example,
all you need, in theory, is a chart showing
which key represents which note, and you can
start playing it right out of the box.

You could take a few lessons to get a
general introduction, like you did
with the guitar, but if you just want to
have fun, this might not even be necessary
--and the wrong teacher can take all the
fun out of playing the piano. You should
not worry about picking up bad habits or
injuring youself--one of the worst places to
pick up bad habits in fact is in formal
piano lessons; and the only pianists you ever
hear of injuring themselves are highly-
trained classical pianists playing
physically demanding pieces under a
teacher.

WOW!

Sorry Gyro, but I have remained good natured in the past about some of your posts but this one I have to take issue with on SO many levels. It is nothing personal but I feel that the advice offered here (IMO) is so off base that if this interested consumer actually happens to listen to what you wrote in this post....We could potentially lose yet another interested musician for life.

First and foremost, a 61 key unweighted touch sensitive keyboard is no substitute for even an 88 key digital piano, let alone an acoustic instrument. The physical adjustment required to go from one of these instruments to even an 88 key weighted keyboard is significant!

If the constraint is budget and/or space and the 61 key instrument is the upper level of requirement for this consumer, then fine. But don't insinuate that this adjustment from 61 keys unweighted to 88 key weighted action is minor. It is not.

Piano is one of the most rewarding instruments to learn but contrary to your assertion, "Just play the keys in the right combination" and "get a chart to show you the right notes" is exactly the same thing as putting your fingers on the right fret. It is all about learning the relationship between the notes that makes the music. The juice is worth the squeeze (i.e. you get out of it, what you put into it!) there are some amazing courses that can get you playing by ear quite quickly but not instantly or "out of the box" with a couple of charts.

Formal lessons (and I should qualify this) with a teacher that knows your goals and piano playing aspirations is the best and most rewarding way to explore the fantastic world that knowing some basics can open to you. As far as learning bad habits in formal lessons and the only pianists that are hurting themselves being highly trained concert pianists......Laughable at best is Gyro's assertion here. Yes I do beleive that some concert pianists may suffer from Repetitive Stress injuries due to the INSANE amount of practice it takes to get to this level. BUT and this is a big BUT, Asim wants to play some popular music with his buddies and having weekly lessons from a qualified piano teacher (again who understands his goals and aspirations and is willing to help him reach those goals) is the best way to ensure a lifelong love of music, instead of some dumbfounding chart that will only frustrate and confound the untrained eye. Your assertion otherwise is irresponsible.

Asim,

As far as the transport East to West, Asim keep the original packaging of whatever you buy and it will normally cost about, 35-50 dollars with Air Canada and about the same with WestJet

I Travel regularly with an 88 key stage piano and for the first 5-6 trips just used the original box and packaging. Granted it does get beat up after a while but for twice yearly transport, the original box will suffice for a while without having to make the financial sacrifice of a hard case.

In the TO area you may want to check any of the Long and McQuade locations, Steve's Music, and dont forget about eBay too for some good used deals.

if you want to play piano (not keyboard), then get a piano (digital/acoustic with weighted action). it's as simple as that...

I think about the cheapest Digital Piano will be the Casio PX series. I have the PX100 which has now been replaced by the PX110 I believe. I'm quite satisfied with mine. From reading posts over on the Digital board, I think a lot of people agree that for the money, these Casio's are a pretty decent digital piano.

Ditto this...and the rest of ProPianoGuy's post.

Not picking on you Gyro but, I would just like to point out that many piano teachers (for one reason or another) seem to have a big problem with their students taking lessons on an 88 key digital piano nevermind the 61 key unqeighted keyboard.

I should probably post this in another thread but please folks, allow me my soapbox for just a mere moment in your lives.

In my experience, many piano teachers who seem to have an objection to technology last tried an 88 key digital piano some years ago and do not realize that today's digital pianos offer more realistic touch and sound than ever before.
String & Damper resonances and Key-off sounds are standard fare on many of todays quality digital instruments. There is so much more than just recording the sound of a grand piano at a few velocities to make a quality digital instrument.

I challenge some of those who haven't tried today's digital pianos to go to a local piano store and try some of the quality digital instruments available for sale. (I don't mean the BIG BOX cheapies) Roland, Yamaha, General Music (to name a few) are making better and better instruments all the time.

Just keep an open mind, and don't automatically discount these pianos because they are "digital"

PPBC climbs down off his soapbox now and thanks you for your time.