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#1085872 - 10/31/04 04:05 PM Advice on Chopin PRelude 28-7
teachum Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/19/04
Posts: 2913
Loc: idaho
I goofed.

Don't laugh at me please. In the second measure, do you cross your thumbs over? You have a D in the right hand and an E in the left. Does anyone play it with a d in the left and the E in the right so you don't have to cross?

Meant to post this message here because I received no response in the "gifted" forum.
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#1085873 - 10/31/04 04:09 PM Re: Advice on Chopin PRelude 28-7
markjpcs Offline


Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 3170
Loc: Wisconsin
I cross the thumbs so the left is playing E and the right is playing D.

I would never think of laughing at anyone for asking such a question.
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#1085874 - 10/31/04 04:36 PM Re: Advice on Chopin PRelude 28-7
markjpcs Offline


Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 3170
Loc: Wisconsin
I edited my initial response after you reposted.
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#1085875 - 10/31/04 04:54 PM Re: Advice on Chopin PRelude 28-7
teachum Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/19/04
Posts: 2913
Loc: idaho
Thanks,Mark. I've played things where my hands cross completely over, but not just my thumbs. Tight quarters!
_________________________
You will be 10 years older, ten years from now, no matter what you do - so go for it!

Estonia #6141 in Satin Mahogany

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#1085876 - 10/31/04 05:17 PM Re: Advice on Chopin PRelude 28-7
markjpcs Offline


Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 3170
Loc: Wisconsin
I love this piece. To most it sounds like a very elementary simple piece but it is full of nuance as are all of Chopin's works. It sounds deceptively easy.

Tight quarters yes, but it feels good after a bit of practice.

I can now play 7 Chopin pieces.

Waltz in A Minor (Post)

Preludes (Op.28)
No. 4 E Minor
No. 6 B Minor
No. 7 A Major
No. 10 C# Minor
No. 15 Db Major <-- Current Project
No. 20 C Minor

I started learning Chopin in March of this year. His works are highly addictive. \:\)
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#1085877 - 10/31/04 08:07 PM Re: Advice on Chopin PRelude 28-7
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Hi teachum,

The overlapping of thumbs doesn't often happen in the classics. Maybe Chopin wanted to establish a firm opening key relationship with two bold LH E chords (5th degree in the key of A Major). Schumann uses a similar overlapping of thumbs in his famous "Traumerei".
However, for smaller hands a reduced spread can be achieved by swopping the adjacent notes of the treble and bass chords - if this helps.

Hi markjpcs,
Must share in your enthusiasm for the Chopin Preludes. Congratulations on your progress to date. One of these days you'll venture into the Nocturnes.

As your repertoire is positively out of the "top drawer", why not include the top 3 in the Pianist Forum newly started thread "3 small classics". Any choice would do but I've beaten you to it with my first choice of Prelude no. 4 in E Minor.

These would be great
Waltz in A Minor (Post)
Prelude 6 ("Raindrop") and
Prelude 7 (described as " a tiny exquisite song in two sentences")

Your present project Prelude 15 in Db Major is a special favourite. The drumming effect of Ab's is intoxicating. Interesting developed Interlude in C# Minor. You must have pretty deft fingering to include no. 10 on your list.

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#1085878 - 11/01/04 07:33 AM Re: Advice on Chopin PRelude 28-7
markjpcs Offline


Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 3170
Loc: Wisconsin
 Quote:
Originally posted by btb:
Hi teachum,

The overlapping of thumbs doesn't often happen in the classics. Maybe Chopin wanted to establish a firm opening key relationship with two bold LH E chords (5th degree in the key of A Major). Schumann uses a similar overlapping of thumbs in his famous "Traumerei".
However, for smaller hands a reduced spread can be achieved by swopping the adjacent notes of the treble and bass chords - if this helps.[/b]
Oh! I agree about the smaller hand fingering. I can easily reach it so it feels really natural for me. YMMV.


 Quote:
Originally posted by btb:

Hi markjpcs,
Must share in your enthusiasm for the Chopin Preludes. Congratulations on your progress to date. One of these days you'll venture into the Nocturnes.[/b]
I never suspected his works would have this much of an intoxicating effect on me! I have pretty much pushed aside all other composers while I concentrate on Chopin. That's not to say that I do not review weekly or more the pieces I know from Beethoven, Mozart, et. al. but I am really concentrating on Chopin.

 Quote:
Originally posted by btb:
As your repertoire is positively out of the "top drawer", why not include the top 3 in the Pianist Forum newly started thread "3 small classics". Any choice would do but I've beaten you to it with my first choice of Prelude no. 4 in E Minor.

These would be great
Waltz in A Minor (Post)
Prelude 6 ("Raindrop") and
Prelude 7 (described as " a tiny exquisite song in two sentences")[/b]
I will post three pieces to the thread. Do they have to be short in length? I also adore the 2nd movement of Beethoven's Pathetique (Adagio cantabile) and I play that from memory.

 Quote:
Originally posted by btb:
Your present project Prelude 15 in Db Major is a special favourite. The drumming effect of Ab's is intoxicating. Interesting developed Interlude in C# Minor. You must have pretty deft fingering to include no. 10 on your list. [/b]
Yes. My teacher is having me place the droning Ab's in the "background" by playing them within the double escapement action and keeping them ever so soft. He says that it will drive the audience insane to hear as he puts it "40,000 Ab's in a row!" \:D

#10 was definitely a challenge and I am still polishing (as always hey?) of you want to hear my progress on #10 you can give a listen here:

http://www.pcsincnet.com/music/PreludeCSharpMinorOp28No1016Bit2.mp3
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#1085879 - 11/01/04 08:13 AM Re: Advice on Chopin PRelude 28-7
teachum Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/19/04
Posts: 2913
Loc: idaho
Isn't Raindrop 15? I'm pretty sure it is - 4 is the Funeral Prelude - E minor. I too, love the Waltz in A minor (post), I also find a lot of Mendelssohn to be very Chopin-like.

ANyway - You guys are way ahead of me, but I love reading the discussion. I have fairly large hands but I have to play the alternate chords in measure 12. I just can't make it from A# to C# so it says you can drop out the bottom A. and play the left F# to E.

My sister plays the Raindrop beautifully. I think I could play nothing but Chopin and always be happy.
_________________________
You will be 10 years older, ten years from now, no matter what you do - so go for it!

Estonia #6141 in Satin Mahogany

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#1085880 - 11/01/04 08:55 AM Re: Advice on Chopin PRelude 28-7
markjpcs Offline


Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 3170
Loc: Wisconsin
teachum,

#6 was originally titled "Raindrop" but George Sand attached the name to #15 over Chopin's explicit objections.

In measure 12 I use the thumb to play A# and C# at the same time. I lay it down in a horizontal position between the two notes. My teacher can reach that insane stretch without resorting to the two note one thumb approach. It is quite a painful looking contortion of the hand though!

My (teacher's suggestion) Fingering:

A# & C# - 1
E 2
A# 4
C# 5

It still takes some practice to hit this correctly but it sounds as intended by Chopin.

HTH!

Mark
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#1085881 - 11/01/04 03:12 PM Re: Advice on Chopin PRelude 28-7
markjpcs Offline


Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 3170
Loc: Wisconsin
teachum,

In addition to the crossed over thumbs in measure 2 the left hand assumes this same position in 7 which again crosses over The this same position happens again in measure 8 minus the A from measure 7.

It is my opinion that you should keep the same hand position or fingering as much as possible as to not get confused. Whether or not this is valid I suppose could be debated but I am a member of the "movement conservation" club. ;\)

Mark
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#1085882 - 11/01/04 04:05 PM Re: Advice on Chopin PRelude 28-7
teachum Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/19/04
Posts: 2913
Loc: idaho
Thanks a lot, Mark. I will try the two-notes thumb trick. I have to break the chords in Gershwin's Prelude II as well. Just no way I can hit an 11th with one hand, so I roll it. That is an interesting bit of history on the Raindrop as well.

Going home to practice!
_________________________
You will be 10 years older, ten years from now, no matter what you do - so go for it!

Estonia #6141 in Satin Mahogany

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#1085883 - 11/01/04 09:02 PM Re: Advice on Chopin PRelude 28-7
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
teachum

You're in good company if your sister can play Prelude 15. Hang in there on 7 which is not as easy as it's shortness might suggest.

markjpcs
quote
#6 was originally titled "Raindrop" but George Sand attached the name to #15 over Chopin's explicit objections.

The femme fatale Georges Sand (at best in my book "she wrote a bit") was exactly that in her day.

My reference book "The Literature of the Piano" by Ernest Hutcheson obviously goes along with Chopin in saying of the no. 6 Prelude in B minor

"This, not no. 15, is the famed "Raindrop" Prelude. The slow beating of the repeated notes in the right hand should resemble a "Bebung" effect, every second eighth-note barely audible. The important thing, however, is the complaining cello-like melody of the left hand".

Good luck with 15. a structural masterpiece for piano. For what it's worth - the "drumming" effect is far more insistent than the steady raindrop patter of no. 6 - and irregular in the opening measure to give prominence to RH melody notes.

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#1085884 - 11/02/04 08:09 AM Re: Advice on Chopin PRelude 28-7
teachum Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/19/04
Posts: 2913
Loc: idaho
No. 6 B minor is what I want to tackle next. I think 15 will be awhile in the future. ;\)
_________________________
You will be 10 years older, ten years from now, no matter what you do - so go for it!

Estonia #6141 in Satin Mahogany

Top
#1085885 - 11/02/04 07:47 PM Re: Advice on Chopin PRelude 28-7
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
teachum,

Good choice. Keep us informed of progress.

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