Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Bittersweet news.

When it comes to money, I get weak!.

My wife and I had built our dream home nestled in the mountains of North Scottsdale AZ (Troon), but unfortunately, it is no longer our little secret.

We literally now have a four seasons resort just across the way from us, a local scottsdale Lamborghinni dealer, and some of our neighbors are Charles Barkly, Phil Nicholson, and even Evil Knievel!.

Nearly 15 years ago when we purchased our property, people thought we were nuts, and at the time, we started to think so too.

Property has become so outragiously expensive that we can't afford to live here anymore just based on the property taxes alone!!

While we only paid $150k for our property back in '93, the remaining properties around us now are selling in the multiple "M"'s!!(and yes, that is only for the lot!).

It does'nt take a genious to figure out how much money we now have to pay in property taxes alone!!. In a way, its not really fair as we have no control of the values in the area and you don't "realize" the monetary value of your home unless you actually sell it!.

Anyway, we decided to sell our place and will be moving out in two weeks.

The big question is what do I do with my M&H acoustic?. While we do have another home outside Flagstaff AZ, the weather there is radically different from here in the valley and there can be radical humidity changes as well as lots of extremely dry to very wet weather since we are at the base of a 12k foot mountain.

I would hate to risk the piano, specifically the soundboard, to such violent and constant weather changes.

We do plan on building a new ranch outside of Wickenburg AZ next to Merv Griffins ranch, but that will take at least a year or two from groundbreaking.

I don't see any other option other than to store my acoustic in a climate controlled storage unit until a new place is built and finished, but like I said, that could be a couple of years!.

Playing my piano is one of the only things I can really enjoy these days as my physical abilities have become somewhat limited.

It really breaks my heart to think that I won't be able to play my piano for a year or two but I don't know what else I can do.

I think I'm out of options, but if you have any suggestions, I'm all ears!

Could always "store" it in someone's climate controlled home where it would be loved until you are playing it again... but I agree, the move from Scottsdale to Flag would seem to be a bit much for you piano.

Bummer... what will you do with your animals?? Do you have room at your Other place for them? or can you board them else where. Did this transform over night or have you been dealing with this for some time now...[if I'm being to nosey...just say so]. Wish I lived somewhere close and could store/house it for ya...good luck Mr & Mrs. s-h

Not sure if this is possible in AZ, but my dad filed his property as a "homestead" and was protected from increased taxes. The hook is at the end if and when you sell, the county will get most if not all of the equity and maybe even some of the non-eq recovery.

Sounds like you have already sold, so hope you got a killing on it so you can afford to build your own climate controlled storage area while you build a new place for your old M&H and your new 9 footer to live.

I feel for ya, but only a little.

Good luck in Wickenburg.

Couldn't you move the piano to the Flagstaff place and install a Dampp-Chaser to control humidity levels? With the climate control of the house combined with the Dampp-Chaser, the piano's internal environment should remain well controlled. Besides, it usually takes decades of harsh temperature/humidity changes to cause serious damage to a piano.

If you sold a house and lot for several million $$$ (after paying "only" a few hundred thousand $$$ for lot and home construction), you should be financially well-prepared for the worst-case scenario for the piano. That is: even if a highly variable climate in Flagstaff destroyed the piano in just two years' time (not likely), you could easily afford to rebuild or replace it!

I say put in a Dampp-Chaser, keep the temperature at Flagstaff place comfortable, and the piano likely will be fine.

Bummer. It's a shame when "progress" takes this kind of toll on people.

As for the piano, I am by no means an expert and you may want to ask a technician more specifically, but I'm not sure a couple years will do that much damage. Do you have a DampChaser installed on the M&H? That would help to stabilize the immediate environment surrounding the piano itself and help to minimize the damage, I would think. Again, you might want to ask a real expert. Those M&H pianos are built pretty darn solidly and I'd think it would take more than a couple years to really do significant damage. Look at mine- it's 117 and still going. Yes, it's been rebuilt but basically, it is in decent shape. Best of luck, whatever you decide to do.

Mr S-H,

Bittersweet indeed. Unfortunately, it seems to happen when an area gets "hot" that those who were there first get priced out of it as their property taxes go up. It's especially heartbreaking when it happens to elderly people who've lived in the same area all their lives and are forced to move. For them, the killing they make selling their house is small recompense to giving up a lifetime of memories.

It must be difficult for you also, having built your dream house that you no doubt thought you'd spend the rest of your days in, to be forced to move. I'm sure the money helps soften the blow but still, there are all of the hassles that go with moving and the heartbreak of losing your home.

At any rate, on to your piano problem. I wonder whether you could do enough climate control in your home in Flagstaff that your piano would be ok. Installation of a dampp chaser, a string cover, an undercover, whole house humidification, etc., can go a long way to creating a good environment for your piano. That way you could continue to enjoy it and my guess is any money you spent would be significantly less than the cost of climate controlled storage for two years.

Hope this helps and good luck in whatever you decide.

Sorry....

Mr, SH, I know, it's a great sacrifice on my part, but if you can ship that puppy out here to So. Cal. I hereby volunteer my home for the storage of your M&H for the duration...

Thanks for all the suggestions so far. A bit more info.

First, we did make a killing and the descision to sell was ours. That still does'nt lessen the the fact that I feel a little sad inside for selling as well as possibly being without my piano for a few years.

Our other home is a log home. It is located on the side of a mountain with very steep steps to the main level.

realistically, moving a seven foot grand up to the main level could turn out catostrophic if not done properly i.e a crane.

The weather around the Flagstaff area makes me very nervous as the humidity can go from the lower single digits to a full blown rainstorm in minutes. This is because the mountain creates its own micro-climate. Thats what happens when you have a 12k foot high mountain popping up in the middle of the desert!.

I have checked into climate controlled storage and it is not that expensive at all. $100 a month for a 5x10 room..climate controlled.

I really like the suggestions many have given me on installing a whole house humidity system as I would be willing to do that.

I just would have to figure out a way to get the piano into the house as well as re-enforce the sub floor due to the weight (approx 1200 lbs).

While the money from the home sale IS insane, its just a figure in a bank account but in no way can give you the joy of performing beautiful music.

At this point, I just can't see being without my piano for that long a period and may possibly end up putting it in storage for a short time while I look into a crane to move it up to the home level as well as re-enforcing the floor.

Thanks for all the great suggestions, and again, I'm all ears if you know of anything else I could do.

I don't have any advice for you on the piano, but I did want to say I commiserate with you on the tax situation, as I am fearful that will eventually happen where I live. Regardless of whether I make money selling it, this is my house ... I built it and I want to stay here. Best of luck.

So sorry that you are faced with the possible necessity of giving up your piano for a while. However, There must be some way of dealing with the problem. Perhaps you should post your information in the Piano forum and see what the various technicians have to suggest.

I sure hope that something can be worked out so that you can keep your beloved piano with you.

Also, I am so glad that you realized a good profit on the sale of your property. Now you will have enough so that you can prepare your new house (and even your temporary one), properly so that you and your piano will be united, and both will be happy. Best wishes. Gaby Tu

$100 per month for climate controlled isn't bad at all. A little over $2k until you get your new place built would allow you to keep your current piano. Another option (which I'm sure you've considered) would be to store your M&H and buy a digital piano. Even a relatively inexpensive one like the Casio PX-110 (which I own) plays pretty well and the more expensive ones are really nice. I bought mine for a beach house we have and though I'd never confuse it with my C7, it certainly serves as a way of keeping up with my playing when I'm down there. A better one would probably be even more of a reasonable intermediate term solution. You might also find that you'll continue to use it even when you get your new place built as a practice piano, a way to play without disturbing others, etc.

Just a thought.

If you trust the new owners maybe they can keep it as a display and you can pick it up when the new house is done. In the mean time buy a nice digital...Kawai MP8 or whatever to hold you...

Or sell it out right, get a digital to hold you over and then go out and get a new grand...

Well, you have your roland digital. Put the mightly M and H in storage until the stress of sell and move are over.

The you have two choices, pull the M and H out of storage and put it in your house, OR buy a less expensive piano for 8-15K and use that for the two years it will take to get re-settled.

I'm sympathetic. We purchased ocean-front land in Maine ten years ago, and built a very nice house on it. Taxes were nothing. Then all of a sudden, taxes skyrocketed, and we could barely afford to own the place any more. Did the same thing -- sold it. The money was stupid big, but didn't mean that much to me. I understand your plight.

As for the piano, well, I have had a long and sad history with instruments and climate problems. My old Martin guitar -- a gift from someone I love dearly, many years ago -- disintegrated in a barn in Massachusetts, where I lived and heated with a 100 year old coal stove. When my old friend who gave me the guitar turned out to have a serious illness, it inspired me to restore the old thing. Since then, I have paid a lot of attention to climate control. Right now, I'm sitting in my "music room" here in NY. It's 11 degrees outside, and without control, it would be about 20%rh in here. But right now, it's 41% rh.

Climate control is not that difficult. It can cost dollars in terms of power usage. But it is really pretty easy to do, if you keep on top of it. Even a simple "console humidifier" from Sears can do wonders: for about $150, you can buy the thing; fill the tanks once a day, and you will feel like you are living in the tropics, the humidity will be so high.

I dunno. I think if I were you I'd buy the best digital money can buy, sell the M&H, and buy a brand new one when the new house was done. But if you don't like that approach, it is *very* possible to control the climate, without much expense, but with moderate diligence, in even the most primitive structure.

So sorry to hear that sh. you have such a beautiful unusual home.

what about your animals? are you taking them with you?

don't you have your digital? i would store the acoustic of course and since you still have your digital you won't be totally cut off.

glad you have some positive things that came from the sale though.

Thanks for all the great replies, but now you will all hate me.

Lots of good suggestions on buying a good digital piano in the meantime, but remember, I have a very good $5k Roland KR-7 digital as well!

Greg was VERY tactful in saying that "he does'nt *confuse* it with his c-7"

Since I am not as tactful, I will just express my own personal opinion exactly as I experience it.

My M&H "BB" is almost brand new. It was built in the summer of 2006. Even though my digital is a very good one, comparing a seven footer semi concert grand to a digital piano is....well....not an apple to an orange.

Playing this piano is literally playing a tier 1 world class instrument. My digital piano is more like typing on a computer keyboard.

Before I continue to alienate everyone with a digital, let me explain. I love my digital. I loved the incredible sounds I can perform on it so much that I wanted to further expand upon this new found love for the piano and purchase a good quality acoustic.

If it were'nt for all the pleasure my digital had given me, I would'nt have ever even considered buying an acoustic.

Now that I finally bought a very good large sized grand, I can enjoy my love for this music even more. I can't even begin to tell you what kind of goosebumps and chills I can get just by hitting a super-deep low bass note and listening to it resonate for almost a full minute. It is really incredible.

I am in no way putting down digitals but rather "raving" on how incredible the resonance and "feel" you can get from an acoustic grand. This simply cannot be duplicated with any digital.

The touch or action of an acoustic can be very different as well.

I hope this explanation does'nt come across the wrong way with any digital owners as it is not meant to. Remember, "tact" is not my forte!.

Also, don't feel "bad" for me either. I really should be very grateful and thankful for this opportunity. Remember, I did say "multiple" "M"'s!!!.

What just bugs me is that since the property is valued at over 2m, you really don't have a choice to not sell other than to pay the outragious property taxes every year.

In my case, that could pay for a new Lexus....every year!!.

This might be a silly suggestion, but why not buy an existing house near where you plan to build next? Maybe it won't be your dream house, but for 2-3 years you could get by and keep your piano. Plus you would be nearby to keep an eye on construction...

Not sure what real estate is like near Wickenburg (actually I don't know where Wickenburg is) but I know that $400k-$500k can buy a pretty nice place in the Tucson area (prices have been falling a bit recently)...

Mr. S-H,

As the cliche goes, "If they can put a man on the moon,..." then you can make it happen to have a grand piano in your Flagstaff home, whether it's your M&H or something else. You might want to post over on the Piano Tuner-Technician's Forum and get some good technical advice on climate issues.

Two crucial facts:

1. You get tremendous, irreplaceable enjoyment and satisfaction from playing your grand piano.

2. Life is very short.

Personally, I'd say: Make it happen.

Mike, that is not a silly question but a very good suggestion.

Wickenburg is a far cry from Scottsdale and we could probably buy an existing house there for the amount you had mentioned.

Our ranch up north is where we spend the summers as it is not uncommon to not get below 100* for many months straight in the valley (sometimes night-time included!).

More than likely we will end up doing exactly what you had mentioned and either purchase or rent a home while our new place is being built.

In Arizona right now, only the multi-million dollar homes and properties are selling as the rest of the market is flat to declining.

With so many adjustable rate mortgages possibly defaulting in the upcoming year or two, I am a little hesitant to purchase anything that I could get stuck with. This makes renting something in the meantime a more attractive option.

The Llama's will be going with us to the log home as that is actually their summer home too. It would be cruel to even attempt to keep them in Phoenix in the summer months....kind of like a polar bear!

All of our Llama's come from Argentina, chile or Peru, high up in the mountains. They are at home in cold-high elevation climates.

I know exactly what you mean Mr S-H... a similar situation has happened with my family's tiny little cottage... was bought 2 generations ago, and now giant mansion sized 'cottages' have sprung up all around it, and property value has skyrocketed! So far we haven't had the heart to sell it, but it will soon be a case where we need to sell it with the taxes. I can't imagine how I'd feel if I were in your shoes, having to sell your actual home!

Here's hoping your move goes smoothly, and good luck with the piano!

Well, I am sorry for your situation about the piano. I know the M-H is a wonderful instrument. BB's that I played in California were the main reason for me getting my "A".
As far as Wickenburg, before Interstate 10 was completed and bypassed Wickenburg, it was a notorious speed trap catching people going to from PHX to LA. When I was in college, we were always VERY careful to watch the speed limit in the middle of the "downtown area". Typical for a speed trap, branches of trees were allowed to grow so that they covered the speed limit sign. Then the black and white "holstein" would pull you over!! I detested the place and have been thankful that you avoid it on the way to California. However, I have heard that Wickenburg has turned out to be an up and coming place in recent years and I do wish you the best of luck in your moves!

I think this is right on target. Hunky, the piano is way too important a part of your life to give it up for 2 years if you don't have to. Locate the best piano movers you can find in your area. Pay them whatever it takes to move the BB to your temporary home for two years, and then move it again to your newly built home. Buy an umbrella insurance policy to cover damage to the piano that includes the moving. Worst case scenario, the piano is dropped from the crane and bursts into a million pieces. Go out and buy a new one with the insurance proceeds and try a different mover. Repeat until you get a BB in your house that you can play. Yes, it will be expensive, but we're talking thousands of dollars, not hundreds of thousands, and certainly not millions. So you can afford it.

The question is: can you afford it, emotionally, NOT to move it? I know what the answer would be for me. Two years is just way too long of a time.

yes, YES!, You are all so very right. If there is a will, there is a way; and boy oh boy do I have the will!!

I have been called several unflattering words over the past few years on this forum, some of them deservidly so. The reason I still hang around and try not to raise the neck hairs on too many people is that my love for the piano and the music it can create is real.

While many of my moronic antics are just that, I can honestly say that I get unequalled satisfaction out of just playing my piano for as long as I want to.

Taking it away from me for a few years would really leave a void in my life and I would probably feel miserable.

I think I will move it into storage for just a short time while moving, look into a whole house humidity system, and then ultimately pay whatever it takes to get that thing up the hill and into the log home.

I will take much of the advice given and insure the move as well; besides, everyone likes to see some cool piano/crane pictures right?

With having a new HOME being built, you are going to have many stress'...and I for one, know of no better releif then to sit down and play them away... not to mention ...WE STILL WANT TO HEAR THIS THING!!! If they can get a Bosie in John-NYC's place, yours can't be THAT DIFFICULT. I've seen pics of a Grand Piano at the overnight spot on the RUBICON...for the EXECS!!!

And on the (off-)topic of grand pianos in unusual environments ... Visit the annual Moab Music Festival , where each year they take a grand piano by riverboat to a grotto on the Colorado River that forms a natural amphitheater.

I understand your feelings on selling your house, S-H. My parents sold the house I grew up in a few years ago. And, while I know it was the right decision (Mom just can't do the old, steep staircase anymore), it still feels odd to not be in that house when we visit. The money, as you say, is just that- money. Nice to have, but it doesn't replace something that has an emotional value, does it?

Am I getting somewhere with this? Yeah- I think. All I want to say is that I think everyone is right- you NEED to have your piano with you in your temporary home, wherever that is. It means too much to you to be without it for so long. We were faced with the possibility of having to move out of this house a few years ago, and would most likely have had to go to something smaller. I was sooooo afraid I would not be able to take my piano. Luckily, that did not happen, but I know how I felt then. Make it work- whatever it takes. If they can get a piano into those upper level apartment buildings, that grotto in CO, and in and out of some concert venues I've seen, someone can get yours up to your log home.

SH: If all else fails (and I know a digital can't compare with a M & H grand), in the interim, you can always purchase digitals (for about $500) that will at least give you some practice and the sound isn't really too bad.

Good luck,
Kathleen

What a ying/yang.

I like the idea of finding a way to keep your piano in your home by whatever means.

It will bring you pleasure.

To sell at this early stage will probably be a loss.

To repurchase, with an expected price increase in couple of years will negate the storage/crane installation. And besides, your piano has now gone through the breaking in one year period.

I cannot imagine that you would be happy with a digital after playing your big MH.

Glad to hear that you had a windfall! Good for you.

LL

This is our home that we have sold. My wife and I had built it ourselves over several years.

It will be very sad to leave it, but we will build another place and this time with a dedicated piano room!

Ohhh S-H, that's just so sad to hear but happy at the same time. Sad in the sense that you'll have to part with the piano temporarily but happy that you've received lots of money for the home. Does your parents have any room in their place to store your piano? Then that way you can play there.

Like many others have suggested Install the Damp Chaser on the piano to keep the humidity level constant may be worth a consideration.

You need to watch the movie "The Piano". There was a scene in the movie where the natives were moving this grand piano from the beach to the mountain top

Dedicated piano room...do I read party??

Beautiful house!

I am so there!

I'm thinkin March or April of 09. Maybe a weekend kinda thing, with lots of places to crash.

OK, I'm in.

Hey Hunk!

Enough of the pity party, OK?

There is the answer to your problem.

Don't you think there are any 7' grand pianos being played every day of the week in Flagstaff? And, don't you think that among these grand pianos that some of the owners had to hire special movers to get them in place? And, the biggest question of all, do you think there's a possibility that someone else in Flagstaff has an M&H “BB” like yours?

I don’t feel bad for you. I think you have a predicament that you will overcome. There sure are one heck of a lot of people (probably many on these forums) who struggle financially to buy the cheapest keyboard available and sure aren’t in areas filled with celebrities like the ones where you are leaving and where you are going.

Wow, sorry, but this sounds very elitist to me. You're the only multimillionaire I've ever seen post that fact in the forums.

OK, you’re having a few bad days, but you’ve overcome a lot worse, so, pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get those party invitations in the mail.

Do you understand the points I’m making? I sure hope so. I fully understand the problems you face.

Good luck with the move.

Listener

Lisztener:

Once again you have decided to disect my posts into individual paragraphs and analyze them. In doing so, I can't help but think that you may have not fully understood exactly what I am trying to express so I will re-state my main points once again for you.

First off, I stated that we paid $150k for our property in the mid 90's. We had purchased such a remote and secluded location that everyone and I mean everyone told us that we were insane and nuts to do so.

Bear in mind that at the time we had purchased our property, it was NOT evern Scottsdale, but rather, an unincorporated part of maricopa county!.

We took a big chance by investing so much of our time and effort by personally building this home in this location.

For over ten years, we have lived in our "dream" house that we built in our "dream" location.

We had NO lumber yards near us, NO supply houses, NO NOTHING. Everything was at least a 45 minute drive on dirt trails back then.

Many contractors would not even work for us as we were just too remote so we had to do most of the trades ourselves.

We had built everything ourselves. It took us many, many years to do this and only in the past few years have we actually finished with everything.

In that time, our taxes went from literally nothing (because we still had a cattle lease on this land) to more than some people make annually.

We were not the ones to make this area so popular, its just that real estate in Arizona went absolutely ballistic in the past 4-5 years.

Lisztener, When you have to pay around $4k per month on drugs like Mepron @ $1,200 a bottle, zithromax @ 15.00 per pill 2x per day, $700.00 per month on liver panels, blood smears, on and on and on, PLUS thousands of dollars per month in taxes because the rich and famous decided to move in next to you, a four seasons resort decided to buy the land across the street from you and so on; you see where I am going with this.

This is NOT a "pity" party as you have so rudely referred to it but rather stating the actual facts that no matter how hard you work, save, or accomplish, no one is safe.

You obviously don't understand that even though your property has become extremely valuable, you DO NOT realize that value until you sell it.

Let me state that again for you in bold so it sinks in this time okay!. YOU DO NOT REALIZE IT'S MONETARY VALUE UNLESS YOU SELL IT!.

What if you don't want to sell it??????. What if you worked so hard the past 6 years spending every single weekend, nights, holidays, any spare time you ever had building it yourself only to be given an ultimatim. Sell it, or pay outragious taxes???.

Thats the point I was trying to make and I'm sorry that you did'nt get it.

I can only ASSume that you have never spend thousands of hours building something over the course of many years only to have it taken away from you or being forced to pay outlandish taxes on it.

You obviously have not seen the steep hillside that our cabin is on either or you would not have made your other comments as well. So, to answer them, NO, there is NO other parcel in our area on such a steep hillside as us.

All I am trying to do is take care of and protect a very valuable investment without doing any harm to it. I absolutely can't believe that you are trying to turn this against me!. What is wrong with you?

Lisztener, I gave you five stars before, I am really starting to question if that was a good choice! Its replies like this that make me go nuts!

What a beautiful home and such a beautiful setting. So sorry that you are having to move from there.

Hunk:

Thank you for restating the problem in a better way.

This time you don’t make it sound like a poor little rich man who is bragging about making a fortune using a rather lame excuse (the welfare of your piano) to do so.

This is now a good human-interest exposition with the fluff removed that portrays the true problem in a way that most anyone can relate to regardless of socioeconomic position.

I'm sorry that I felt the need to rile you into a response, but now I'm glad I did.

The major problem has much less to do with the piano than it has to do with the strain in your soul for being forced out of a place you love so deeply. After spending a good deal of time on your Pinnacle Peak website I came away with a sense of knowing you much better than who you are in this forum and feeling proud of you and your wife for what you have accomplished.

Is it OK with you that your restating of this major disappointment in your life saddens me? You need not answer that question because you can’t change how I feel. You cannot hold my paternal instincts in check.

I want you to understand that I didn't attack you on a whim. I thought about it for quite some time before posting. I’m satisfied that we had this exchange. I hope never to lose the will or the fortitude to question the motives of those who interest me. Flawed as the rating system may be, I hope you’ll not regret giving me the rating you felt I deserved. I rate you higher after your response than I did after reading your posts leading to that response.

Sincerely,

Lisztener

Mr S-H

If I have read your post correctly you have just posted on a message board that you have made at least a couple of million $. Well congratulations that is fantastic. However just by making that statement here you are going to evoke a variety of responses.

Personally I found your original post a bit of a strange one but then I am British. In the UK if you posted on a message board in the way that you did and that you had just made $2m+ that would be considered boastful, I understand that in the US it is far more commonplace to freely discuss your finances with people.

I also understand that you have a genuine dilemma, in fact I had an aunt that in her old age was cash poor but asset rich and refused to move out of her large old house - she died living in relative poverty because she could not bear to give up the memories that she had in that house.

$2m+ is alot of money for most people and therefore the natural reaction will be if the sacrifice is that you have to move out of your home (no matter how attached to it you are) to realise that then for alot of people that wouldn't be a problem.

I think its a testament to the people that post on this board that they have understood the "problem" as you see it and tried to give you some constructive advice rather than just saying:

"problem ? what problem ? you just made a load of cash and all you have to do is spend a little of it (move your piano, install the required air conditioning, in several locations if necessary) and problem solved."

Text:

I'm not sure you are understanding the "problem" either and at this point, I can only conclude that I must be doing a very poor job explaining myself properly.

You keep reffering to how much I made on the sale of the house. You seem to forget that I have'nt "made" anything because now I have no house!!

I can't just simply buy the lot next to me because as I have stated THE LOTS ALONE cost more than what we sold our house for now!!.

The replacement cost to build just the home itself now in 2007 @ a very modest $150.00 per square foot would be around $900k.

So, if I were to purchase the property next to mine for 2M, spend $900k to build a new home at today's prices, I actually just lost $900k!!

The land in our area has become so outragiously expensive that I cannot replace what we had.

If you are wondering why we sold at 2M if the replacement cost of the home plus the value of the land is more, than all you need to do is look at the real-eastate market in the U.S for the past couple of years now to see how soft the market has gotten.

If you are wondering then "why did you sell"?, then as I had stated, we went from paying zero property taxes due to a cattle lease with the state on this land to having to pay incredible amounts of luxury taxes only becuase so many other people have decided to move in and build very expensive homes and communities right next to us.

Like I said, we used to have to drive on a dusty dirt trail to get to our property without a paved road anywhere to be seen. That was only 10 years ago. Now, I literally have a four seasons resort directly across the way from us, literally!!

If you really read this story closely, you will come to realize that this is NOT a story about a little rich kid that just made 2M....Boo-Hoo!, but rather, its about someone who had spend many years of their life physically building their dream home only to be forced to sell it or pay outragious sums of money to keep it in taxes.

This is a story of someone who would literally have to pay around $900k just to replace what he had!

Like I said, you don't realize any monetary value on your property until you sell it. Then what?, What if you want to replace what had only to find out that it will cost you even more money to do so?.

What if you realize that the replacement cost of your property is more than the market is selling for but the cost to stay in your property is just to high??

I hope this scenario is starting to make a little more sense and that I am better explaining the situation.

We did'nt just make a huge windfall profit- but rather are now forced to rebuild somewhere else in another county district that was similar to what we had done 10 years ago.

If I am to purchase a sililar type of property in a much less expensive town (say Wickenburg). I will be able to purchase a similar property for around $700k as opposed to 2M in North Scottsdale. (YES, land in AZ is VERY expensive).

If I take the proceeds from the home sale 2M, subtract $900k for the home replacement cost, subtract $700 k for the cost of a similar lot in a MUCH less desirable area, and then factor in say $4k per month home rental with livestock fascilities for two years (96k), then I am almost up to $1.7M.

So, the bottom line is that it is going to cost me almost as much money to replace my former home in a MUCH less desirable area, MUCH further out of town while taking about 2 years of construction time to do so!

All this, just to hopefully be able to hang on to that place without getting luxury taxed to death!

Somehow, I think that if you really read this post closely, you will now realize that I am not the spoiled rich brat you are trying to make me out to be, but rather, someone who just got the shaft as a result of others peoples actions.

Maybe this is why we are not happy about this but instead saddened on how much work we now face ahead of us just to replace what we had!

Hunkster, I can't escape the feeling that you are leaving piano world, when of course you are just leaving your house.

It must be hard to let go after personally investing so much of your life to build up the property to what it is today, I hope you can create another dream home elsewhere.

Well, this tread went south.

Hunk, you made yourself very clear. As someone who was forced to sell in Southern Cal a few years back, I fully understand what you are saying.

We made a killing if you compare what I paid to what I sold it for. I lost my A** when I had to buy another place to live.

I agree having 7 figures in the bank is only a number and it will evaporate as you replace or try to replace what you had.

There, now, lets get back to the party in your new piano room.

I was thinking that hunky's dilemma raised some deja vu in me, as it brings back California in the 1970s when Proposition 13 was passed. Too many families were being forced into bankruptcy and selling their homes by ballooning property taxes; Prop 13 was one of the first voter-initiated propositions and successfully placed a cap on how much property taxes could rise. Although Prop 13 had its own fair share of unintended negative consequences, it did allow people to keep their houses. My mom would never have been able to remain in Orange County without it.

A couple of more suggestions:

(1) You seem to have an unusual amount of flexibility regarding where you live. I would not assume without thorough study that building new is an absolute requirement. As you say, the AZ real estate market shot up in recent years, prompting a lot of speculative building. It seems to be shooting down right now (you seem to have lucked out and sold in a spot that remained at least warm if not hot). Given your apparent location flexibility, you might find that something very close to your ideal house (or maybe even better) already exists.

(2) A dedicated piano (music) room is a great idea. We added one when we built our current house and I can't imagine living without it. I can play my piano (a BB like yours) any time of day or night without interfering with the rest of the household. The only other use for the room is as a listening room for our good stereo or as a quiet spot for reading (no television, computer, etc.)...

(3) Of course, requiring the dedicated music room makes it harder to find an ideal existing house (we occasionally look around at other houses and always ask "but where would we put the piano?"...). However, I know that at least in southern AZ it is not uncommon for larger properties to have guest houses - I bet a guest house could be adapted to a music room pretty nicely...

I am glad there is a law in Florida that property value can only go up 3%/year max. for tax no matter what the market value might be. So if I bought a house for $150k ten years ago, I only have to pay tax on about $200k now even if its market value might be $2m. A friend of mine with about 50 acres of land is still paying a few dollars/acre for tax because the land was bought by his grandfather back in the stone age. While people that are buying land next to his having to pay about $4000/year tax based on average $150k/acre.

SH - I actually feel sad that you get run out of the home you built just because of this crazy housing market. You should just move to another state. But wherever you go, don't forget to move the piano with you.

Hi Mr. Hunkey,

Listen, I live in New York on Long Island where the taxes, price of housing and just about everyting is out of sight! I own a place in NE and one on Marco Island Fl. as well as live in NY. I thank God every day that I planned my future right and made investments and that my partner and I worked together to obtain the things we have today. I feel VERY badly that you have a tough decision to make but the piano should be the least of your problems. If I were in you position, the piano would certainly have a place no matter where I go. There are ways to ensure that the piano has the right environment and it seems to me, that if you HAVE to move, you DON'T have to have another multi-million dollar home! Noless buy another ranch next to Merve Griffin! If the piano means that much to you, take it with you and do your homework and ensure the safety of the piano. I LOVED the photo of the piano in the canyon! It Can be done. And I must admit, reading your post was sort of telling everyone of your success. Sort of goes along with the rest of your profile...model...beautiful wife...budybuilder...get the picture!

Mr. S-H -

I would add that if you are flexible about where in the country you live, rather than limiting yourself to a certain area, it is possible to do quite well in this scenario.

If there is not a family- or job-related reason to stay in the Phoenix area, there are many other places to live in the country where the real-estate market isn't as overheated (or vulnerable to fall).

It is quite feasible to get a similar property (a large house on wild country acreage) an hour outside of Austin, TX for far less than $2M. (Close in to Austin is another story, it gets expensive fast.)

With the job market as lousy as it's been, I wish I'd made the right moves to ride the real estate market upward and cash in. If I'd taken a job and bought a house in San Diego instead of Austin in 2000, I'd be independently wealthy right now.

---

As for dedicated music rooms - isn't that what a "formal living room" is for? Lots of people leave this room empty in their house, yet it's big enough for a 7' grand (especially if you're talking about large / upscale houses). I don't know anyone who actually entertains in their formal living room; everyone gathers in the family room just off the kitchen.

Hunk,
Let me also add that I am truly sorry that your health has failed! I re-read your post regarding meds...sounds prety serious...which leaves me to tell you that your HEALTH should come FIRST. The piano can be a very good thing for you and your well being! I apologiz if I may have come on too strong in my first post, but relly, you need to be in a place where you can get well and it doesn't have to be next to Merve Griffin!

The problem is that in most houses the formal living room is open to the rest of the house and frequently has living space (i.e., bedrooms) above. This makes it difficult to isolate from the rest of the house. Our "music room" is off the formal living room (french doors separating). It has no living space above and only adjoins the formal living and dining rooms (used infrequently).

The "music room" is actually a standard builder's option in our development - probably 20% of the houses have the addition. Most people seem to use the room for a pool table, although I've seen them used for a large home office and for an in-law suite. We have the only "music room" that I know of...

Yeah! You can move to Kentucky!! Llamas and (especially) alpacas are starting to get big in Kentucky. Apparently the bluegrass that does so well for race horses is good for llamas, too.

What about renting an acoustic piano while your M and H is in storage? I know it isn't the same but it would be more to your liking than the digital and you could get one to fit your temporary space?

You would also get to see how the environment works with a piano and decide how much you want to invest in fixing the humidity etc, without having that experiment involve your dream piano

Thanks again for the positive, non-assuming suggestions.

I was dealt a very nasty card back in the early seventies by contracting Lyme disease as well as Babesia.

It was never properly diagnosed until about two years ago. Long story short, Having a severe chronic case of it now causes extreme inflamation in all of my large joints. Most people who have the levels in their red blood cells as I do and who are producing the amount of antibodies for this disease as I am are permenently disabled from this debilitating disease.

The fact that Arizona is always warm and has extremely low humidity is a huge factor in my physical well being. This is why I must stay here or at least find another location that is always warm and has extremely low humidity.

I am currently on a drug for Malaria called Mepron (atavaquone). Only in past year has this drug been used to treat Babesia.
It is the only thing keeping me moving at this time and without it, I would be in my wheel chair permenently.

There is no known cure for chronic Lyme disease and it can absolutely turn your life upside down.

this is another reason for not wanting to totally rebuild again as I can't do it myself anymore.

Now you know!

S-H,

You tangled with one nasty tick! Best wishes in your battle with these conditions and in finding a suitable home in the area.

Okay, that rules out Kentucky.

I feel for you Mr. Hunkey. I had a friend who neurologically was turned upside down due to his Lymes. LI is known for many cases. He was wheelchair bound for quite some time. You have come down to Earth and realized why you need to stay in Arizona. I am sure there are many affordable, nice places for you to find a new home for both you and you're piano. My sincere best wishes!

Mr. S-H:

Have you considered Los Cruces, New Mexico? Always warm, always dry, good size but not huge, New Mexico State University, real estate reasonable, etc. etc.

SH Whatever you do don't give up your piano!I did that once and lived to regret it. Your piano is an important part of your recovery. Music is healing.
You have accomplished so much as a pianist. I know because I have heard you play! A piano room or a climate control system like some of the others have suggested will be helpful.

I know you are sad to leave the house you worked so hard to build , that's to be expected.That is another reason you need your piano with you. I have a feeling everything will work out fine. Just keep the faith.

This may be a completely stupid idea, or simply out of the question given your Flagstaff terrain.

But...how expensive would it be to simply build a little piano room (standalone) on your Flagstaff property? You could climate-control it easily, and possibly build it where moving the piano in and out wouldn't require a crane and all that other stuff.

After your Wickenburg place is built, you can convert the piano room into something else... garage, feed storage, tack room, whatever. You could even get one of those prefab jobbies that can be assembled in, like, a weekend or something.

Nina:

That is a good suggestion, but you living here in AZ know that Flag can be downright nasty all winter long.

I cannot live there for more than the summer due to the bitter cold temps and humidity that they can get there. Cold, damp, wet weather makes me just lock up and I can hardly move in those conditions.

Warm, dry low humidity conditions allow me to function fairly normally while on all the meds.

The main point of this post to begin with was two-fold.

1.) I am having to relocate due to conditions that are out of my control

2.) In doing so, I have no "realistic" option of putting my acoustic piano in without having to due some very extreme moving of it...i.e crane or similar.

While I am willing to move the grand piano into the cabin, that still does'nt really solve my situation as I cannot under any circumstance live there for more than a summer due to the intolerable weather conditions the rest of the year.

The only reason we even have our northern cabin is for the animals. They cannot live in the summer heat of phoenix as that would surely kill them.

I think that this will all work out somehow and I really appreciate all the good suggestions without drawing any pre-determined conclusions based on assumptions.

One other possibility is to sell the new "BB" and buy another one when the time is ready. Since I can get these pianos almost at wholesale cost (friend owns the dealership), I may possibly look into that option, however, I would much rather play it somehow as it really does bring me a lot of pleasure and satisfaction.

If anyone knows of a year round warm and extremely dry climate, I would love to hear from you and your suggestions.

Thank you.

As I may have hinted at earlier in this thread, I am a big fan of the greater Tucson area (lived there for six years and am dying to return). I go back there 3-4 time a year and it always breaks my heart to get on the plane to leave. IMHO the natural beauty far surpasses the Phoenix area. The real estate market never quite hit the PHX peaks and I think has fallen back at a faster rate. There are large properties not terribly far from downtown, especially west of town. Plus you still have access to a large teaching hospital and the other advantages of a college town...

When we lived there the locals used to complain that Tucson was turning into Phoenix, but that nobody noticed because Phoenix was busy turning into LA...

Well, it goes without saying but I'd be only too happy to store your BB for awhile...

Seriously, it is a dilemma. You have your land in Wickenburg, right--so that will be your primary residence once things are built. Your Flagstaff place is just for summers...hmmm. Can you rent a place in Wickenburg while your house is being built?

Where were you planning to live during the winter while your Wickenburg place is being built? (Sorry if you already mentioned this.) Is it possible to put the BB there? Not ideal, but for example if you have an extra bedroom...? Since you know it's temporary (even if a kind of lengthy temporary) it's not like you have to find an ideal location. I'm guessing that even buying for two years may well be cheaper than renting for the same amount of time.

Are you stuck on Arizona/Wickenburg? There are some good spots in New Mexico as well...or like Mike says, SE Arizona. Check out Elgin, Hereford, Amado, Sahuarita. (I'm deliberately looking at small places since I'm thinking they are cheaper than Tucson proper.) That would make a great road trip, and the perfect time to do it is NOW!! (Weather-wise.)

These are all good suggestions.

The reason we are even considering Wickenburg is because we already own the land. Our property taxes there are zero because of a cattle lease.

To be honest, I may even consider selling everything and just finding one location that is warm and dry enough for me and my joints while not being to warm for the Llama's.

We have even tossed around Fort Collins area of Coloroado as it appears that they have mild temps with very low humidity.

mikewu99, tucson is beautiful as you've said, but it is still very hot; to hot for our animals to live in the summer. If we are going to build another location in a hot climate, it will most likely be on our property in Wickenburg.

The problem in our state right now is that if you don't already own the land, it is almost unaffordable to purchase.

I think we may take a breather for a week or two after we move in two weeks and go over all of our options.

I'm sorry for getting so many people riled up in this and of course I am throwing about 10 wrenches into the equasion as well.

Nina, in good housing market conditions, buying a home near where we will will build is a great idea; we have done that before.

Unfortunately, with so many adjustable rate mortgages potentially going bad, I fear that if we purchase a home in a depressed market which could very possibly get worse, I would end up stuck with that home for who knows how long.

Ironically, only the mega-expensive homes are selling (at a discount), nothing else is.

Anyone familiar with colorado?, I hear it is beautiful, mild temps and low humidity.

You have some conflicting requirements which will make an ideal location tough to find.

Fort Collins is mild relative to the mountains in Colorado, it still gets significant snow (55 inches and an average winter high of 42 degrees according to the chamber of commerce).

What about Prescott, AZ area? I've never been there but I've heard it's more bearable than PHX in summer. Not sure how the winter gets...

How about far southeast AZ (Cochise county/Bisbee) - enough elevation to take the edge off of summer, not enough to get really cold in the winter...

If I had to pick one place on earth to live it would be Sedona, but it still gets plenty hot there and the cost of real estate is way out of sight...

Now you've got me daydreaming about Arizona, the rest of the afternoon is shot...

You could always move your llamas back to their ancestral home in the Andes...

I used to live near Denver, Colorado, which has a similar climate to Ft. Collins - a high-altitude, semi-arid, continental climate. You may find it colder than your body will happily tolerate.

Here's how I would describe a typical year's weather in Colorado.

January tends to be cold and dry - highs in the 40s, lows in the 20s. Sometimes there are cold snaps that bring sub-zero temperatures for up to a week at a time.

February and March are cold, wet, nasty months. You may get a taste of spring with a slightly warm sunny day (highs in the 60s or low 70s), but just as you're getting comfortable, a spring snowstorm will roll in and give you a pile of heavy wet snow and highs in the 30s or 40s.

In April and May, spring begins to assert itself more, and those warm sunny days become more frequent. But there is still a chance a cold snap or snowstorm will come in until Memorial Day.

In June, things warm up dramatically. Some of the best Colorado weather is in late May to early June - highs in the low 80s, lows in the 50s. Late June and into July are a very hot, dry time of year - highs in the mid- to upper 90s, lows in the high 60s to low 70s.

In late July and throughout August, monsoon moisture brings afternoon thunderstorms every few days. The overall climate is dry - unless a storm comes through. This time of year brings the most violent thunderstorms, with potential heavy rains and the rare threat of a tornado. Most days are still hot - highs in the 80s-90s, lows in the 60s. This weather pattern may continue into early September.

Things begin to cool off dramatically in late September and October. The first snows may arrive this early but are infrequent. The fall months tend to be dry, and the weather gradually gets colder.

In November, highs will be in the 50s and lows will get below freezing on a consistent basis. Snow is pretty sparse until after Thanksgiving.

December brings consistently cold temperatures - highs in the 40s, lows down in the 20s. It's usually pretty dry, but sometimes (like in 2006) you can get a big snow around Christmas.

Just know, MSH, that what ever you decide is best for yourself, that we care about you and wish you the best.

We only know the pianist side of you, for the most part, and want to see that your playing will be part of your life for your wellbeing.

LL

Thanks LL and thanks Colin for the in-depth review of Denver.

There is no way I could take that cold. I've never been there so I don't know what it is like.

Today in Arizona, it was in the 90's, and its only the begining of March so you have an idea of what I am used to.

If it were'nt for my joints locking up in cold or damp weather, I would have all sorts of choices, but they do, so I have to be very picky.

We do have options within the state of AZ but I am also interested in other possibilities.

I've heard New Mexico is also very dry and possibly warmer than Colorado. I may do some research and look into it.

How about NM - I googled "retirement low humidity warm" and the first couple hits were for NH, specifically "truth or consequences".

BTW - I think you ought to give yourself a couple weeks to ponder yoru options.

Dorrie, did you mean NeMexico, or New Hampshire?, or was that just a typo??.

I grew up in Connecticut for nearly 20 years and New England will not cut it for me anymore. Besides, I kinda have a bad taste in my mouth (or body rather) from living just outside of "Lyme" connecticut. Actually, I'm still "ticked off" about it!!

S-H,

I have to agree with Colin on the typical weather conditions. I currently live in the Denver Metro area and this last December through January we just went through a streak of weather that was 30's and below. This is not quite typical for this area, but seeing a few days that drop below freezing during the winter is very common.

We do get periods with a lot of snowfall, but in most cases it is gone within a couple of days. This year we got hit with a blizzard just before Christman and had snow every single weekend after that through January. Normally we have a green Christmas and a blizzard sometime in March or April. Last year at Christmas I had a friend who was in NW Ohio, below freezing, while we were in the 70's.

It is great weather here, and mostly dry, but not nearly as "naturally climate controlled" as you are describing for your home.

Good luck with building a new home, and I am sure you will find a way to keep playing no matter what.

Rich

I am sure Dorrie meant NM, not NH. I live in NH and I can tell you it would not suit your needs at all: freezing temps in winter (maybe not for prolonged periods most years, but we do get cold spells) and high humidity for periods in summer. It's gorgeous when it's nice, but there are bad spells.

Again– look at Las Cruces NM; sounds just right for you.

Famous:

You drive a M&H so you must have some smarts!!. I will look into it as well as possibly grand junction colorado, and outskirts of St George Utah. These are just a few possibilites people have informed me of.

Yeah -

Typo - I meant New Mexico - Sorry about that.

I'm sure you have a top notch financial planner, but if you don't get one! You've got some long term planning to do between real estate, livestock, pianos and health issues.