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#1091728 - 05/07/08 11:10 AM OT gas prices
Roger Ransom Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 1254
Loc: SouthWest Michigan
Now that we in the United States are whining about high gas prices again, I wonder what people in other countries are paying.

We are somewhere around $3.75 USD per gallon. That varies somewhat daily and depending where you live.

Nothing to do with pianos unless the prices keep me home playing more instead of joy riding or taking long trips.

Just curious.
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#1091729 - 05/07/08 11:21 AM Re: OT gas prices
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17776
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
I read in the Times that SUV sales have plummeted 25% recently. It's about time.

Unleaded is going for $3.50 a gallon today in Lexington.

When I tell my students I can remember when gas was just 30 cents a gallon they look at me like I'm hopelessly ancient. \:D
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Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1091730 - 05/07/08 11:23 AM Re: OT gas prices
Les Koltvedt Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 3195
Loc: Canton, MI
I hate to admit it, but I do remember when I first started driving...5 gals for a buck... oh the GOOD OLE DAYS...lol

then waiting in lines at something like $0.75 gal

oh ya...$3.65ish SouthEast Michigan
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Les Koltvedt
LK Piano
Servicing the S. Eastern Michigan Area
PTG Associate

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#1091731 - 05/07/08 11:29 AM Re: OT gas prices
mjs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 365
Loc: München, Germany
Between about € 1.35 and € 1.50 per litre (depending on grade) in Germany, so, per US-gallon (3.6 l), that would make about US$ 7.50 to 8.40.
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Neupert Telemann harpsichord

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#1091732 - 05/07/08 11:41 AM Re: OT gas prices
Triryche Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 1451
Loc: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
 Quote:
Originally posted by Roger Ransom:


Nothing to do with pianos unless the prices keep me home playing more instead of joy riding or taking long trips.

Just curious. [/b]
Could also affect delivery charges of new pianos.

$3.79 in Milwaukee, WI today \:\(

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#1091733 - 05/07/08 11:45 AM Re: OT gas prices
Euan Morrison Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 1588
Loc: Edinburgh
The most expensive price I have seen so far here is £1.30 for a litre of diesel.

So converting litres to gallons, and £ to $, I make that:
$9.13/gallon.

(although our country is much smaller than USA, it still hurts \:\( )

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#1091734 - 05/07/08 11:51 AM Re: OT gas prices
Triryche Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 1451
Loc: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
OUCH!!!

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#1091735 - 05/07/08 11:52 AM Re: OT gas prices
melissa d Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 113
Loc: Cibolo, Texas
I am feeling somewhat lucky after seeing gas prices elsewhere. Although at about $3.70 it still hurts.
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#1091736 - 05/07/08 11:54 AM Re: OT gas prices
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
it's pretty much around $3.50-60 here. i wish i'd have a hybrid to drive...

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#1091737 - 05/07/08 12:03 PM Re: OT gas prices
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4236
Loc: Arizona.
I drive a very rare VW Jetta wagon TDI This little turbo diesel gets an avg of 50 mpg!!, and that is the average!.

It is very spacious inside being a wagon and being a diesel, the torque is incredible. I am always the fastest car going up steep hills.

The VW jetta's that are diesel (TDI), are the most fuel efficient vehichles you can buy (other than the Golf TDI) . They get MUCH better gas mileage than even the toyota Prius because of the "catch"

The "catch" is that in the past, automakers fuel economy reports were based on driving 55 mph on the highway. Realistically, who drives 55 on the highway??

The diesels "sweat-spot" is right around 70mph when cruising. Because of the torque of the diesel, it easily makes up for wind resistance.

Other "hybrid" cars are fantastic in the city where they can utilize the braking energy but on the highway going realistic highway speeds (70-80mph), they start to fall WAY short.

The Toyota Prius highway mpg has been adjusted this year to only 41 mpg highway as opposed to the 61 once claimed.

The other "catch" is that diesel cars will NOT show up on anyones list of "best GAS mileage cars" since they do not run on gas!.

They CAN (and many do) run on pure vegetable oil and other bio-diesel fuel.

I'm really not sure why american farmers don't go back into business growing corn for bio-diesel fuel. It would put many farmers back in business, the fuel produced would be 100% american produced and there would be ZERO emmissions from the cars!

In europe, Volkswagon makes a little diesel car called the Lupo which gets 70 mpg. Also, the original Smart car (which uses a tiny diesel) also gets in the 70+ mpg range but of course the U.S will NOT allow the importation of the diesel Smart cars due to its impact on the us auto makers!.

Diesel costs a little more now, but that's only from a marketing perspective. Diesel is SO much cheaper to produce since it is MUCH less refined. This is why diesel in the past (since early man) has always been much cheaper to purchase. It used to be this way with skim milk too until skim milk became the in thing!.

Anyway, even at $4.00/gall, getting 50 mpg (with a heavy foot) still works for me!

BTW, You can still buy a VW Jetta TDI in a sedan version but they stopped making the wagon in 2005. You can or course buy used ones.

Volkswagon is putting out a new little diesel wagon later this year called a "Sport-wagon" which is essentially a Jetta wagon in the new body style.

The price will be in the mid to upper 20's. Not bad for a 50 mpg spacious car!.

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#1091738 - 05/07/08 12:04 PM Re: OT gas prices
Babs_ Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 321
Loc: Gulf Coast
Down here in Florida, I am paying $3.74 !

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#1091739 - 05/07/08 12:08 PM Re: OT gas prices
YD Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 590
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
I remember renting a car in Europe (I think it was Brussel, but I might be mistaken) before 2000, and paying just under a dollar for gas, and then after I filled the car up I realized that the price was per LITER, not per GALLON. So, now we pay for the just about the same as poor Europeans were paying for it a decade ago. Just puts everything in perspective for me...
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#1091740 - 05/07/08 12:09 PM Re: OT gas prices
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4375
Loc: Jersey Shore
What upsets me is that the price of gas isn't being driven by supply demand issues, but its speculator commodity buyers that are manipulating the market...

Also the oil companies claim that are just passing the cost to the consumer, yet they are making windfall profits.

Just hope the price can stabilize for a while. Its killing the little guy and hurting the economy big time.

Some say $7 a gallon in the next few years...

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#1091741 - 05/07/08 12:21 PM Re: OT gas prices
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4236
Loc: Arizona.
Here is a photo of the 2008/9 VW Sportwagon TDI.


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#1091742 - 05/07/08 12:26 PM Re: OT gas prices
Sundew Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 281
Loc: England
No joke here is it Euan? The price seems to rise every other day though it is a tad cheaper in the south, diesel was £1.19 a litre this morning. I wouldn't like to say it is still the same tonight. The petrol/diesel differential is now 10p a litre, in favour of petrol. I get an average 50 mpg max from my diesel{Mazda 3}which includes a lot of short about town journies. Well, it did, my son now walks home from school and I do more and smaller shopping trips by shanks's pony. It isn't just fuel prices {including gas and electricity in the home} that are rocketing in the UK. The cost of staple foods has also increased. Winge over. LOL

{gotta laugh or cry really, one feels so impotent}

Some say $7 a gallon in the next few years...

Heck Mark I would {almost} cheerfully settle for 7$ a gallon.

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#1091743 - 05/07/08 12:34 PM Re: OT gas prices
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
£1.19 x 1.95 = USD 2.32

USD 2.32 x 3.78 $/gal = $8.77/gal (about twice the price of diesel in the USA right now)

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#1091744 - 05/07/08 12:40 PM Re: OT gas prices
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
 Quote:
Originally posted by mr_super-hunky:
The Toyota Prius highway mpg has been adjusted this year to only 41 mpg highway as opposed to the 61 once claimed.[/b]
It has a lot to do with how you drive. I drove my relative's 2003 Prius for 170 miles of mix highway and city (with A/C on), I got 59 mpg.

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#1091745 - 05/07/08 12:54 PM Re: OT gas prices
Roger Ransom Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 1254
Loc: SouthWest Michigan
I suspected that prices were much higher in many countries. Thanks for the perspective.

I can easily remember 30 cent per gallon gas and even though I should be hardened to new prices, it still takes by breath away when I can put 40 USD worth of gas in my Miata. I'm glad I never bought into the SUV thing.
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#1091746 - 05/07/08 12:59 PM Re: OT gas prices
Roger Ransom Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 1254
Loc: SouthWest Michigan
 Quote:
Originally posted by Euan Morrison:
(although our country is much smaller than USA, it still hurts \:\( ) [/b]
I don't think the size of the country has much to do with how much the price hurts your wallet. \:\)
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#1091747 - 05/07/08 01:26 PM Re: OT gas prices
billyshears66 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/08
Posts: 84
Loc: Dracut, MA
One of the worse things I do on my drive into work, is calculate how long I have to work that day to just pay for my gas to get to and from work... it gets more depressing each week... I drive 80 miles round trip, and I have a decent car for MPG (around 35).

I used to drive a truck, and decided that the first hour of each work day was not worth paying for my trip. I got rid of that 2 years ago... now with the higher prices, I'm back to working the first hour just to pay for my trip.

Very depressing... need closer job \:\)
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1905 Geo P. Bent Orchestral Grand Upright "Crown" 35415

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#1091748 - 05/07/08 01:44 PM Re: OT gas prices
bluekeys Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 1337
I filled up in Virginia Beach, VA this weekend for $3.20/gal. After reading the other posts on this thread I consider myself very fortunate! \:\)

BTW--There is a web site, GasBuddy.com , that lets you type in a zip code and shows you the lowest local prices. Very Helpful!!

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#1091749 - 05/07/08 01:53 PM Re: OT gas prices
ddh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/22/06
Posts: 458
Loc: Abitibi
Make that $4.94 a gallon (USD/CAD) here in Kanada.

The lowest I ever saw when I was but a young brat was $0.34 a gallon but that was a lonnnnng time ago \:D
_________________________
Daniel (Pramberger JP 208B)


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#1091750 - 05/07/08 02:15 PM Re: OT gas prices
Rosanna Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: San Francisco Bay area
It was $3.97/gal 2 days ago but it's higher in San Francisco proper. Luckily my husband and I work from home, so no commute (and no traffic headaches.) I have been much more conscientious about combining errands and decreasing driving ever since last year when prices started to go up. We are contemplating replacing my 12-yr old Nisson sedan with a Prius.

There are many people around SF area who commute 1-1.5 hrs each way! I feel really bad for them, even before the rise in gas. Now it's so much worse. And this is not to mention food prices soaring too.

 Quote:
I'm really not sure why american farmers don't go back into business growing corn for bio-diesel fuel.
Mr.Hunky, in the Oct. 07 issue of National Geographic, there were some very informative articles on corn ethanol (E85). It turns out corn E85 isn't as much of a wonder solution as the media makes it sounds.

Part of the success in Brazil that is used as a talking point to promote E85 here is because in Brazil, they use sugar cane for E85. For every 1 unit of fossil fuel energy put in to produce sugar cane ethanol, 8 units of energy is produced(vs only 1.3 units energy output for corn ethanol.) The Greenhouse emission of production and use for sugar cane E85 (compared to gaoline) is 56% less. For corn ethanol, it is only 22% less. There is a lot more info in the article, e.g. land use issues, etc.

Anyway, I am very much a greenie liberal. But after being informed by the article, I have second thoughts about E85 being a major solution for us in the US.
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#1091751 - 05/07/08 02:15 PM Re: OT gas prices
Stacey E Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 81
Loc: Chicagoland Area
I'm all for bio-diesel. My brother is a mechanic and thinking about going to Sweden (or maybe it was Switzerland or Norway, not really sure) to take a two week course on manufacturing bio-diesel. The big problem with where we live is that it tends to turn into a gel in the colder weather. Some say you can do a mix of regular diesel and bio to counteract that issue. I think my brother was telling me that the guy who invented the diesel engine (named Diesel) actually designed it for use with plant based fuels, but that the auto manufactures adapted it for use with petroleum instead, in the interest of oil companies. Not sure if this is true, though.

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#1091752 - 05/07/08 02:19 PM Re: OT gas prices
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
 Quote:
Originally posted by Stacey E:
... my brother was telling me that the guy who invented the diesel engine (named Diesel) actually designed it for use with plant based fuels, but that the auto manufactures adapted it for use with petroleum instead, in the interest of oil companies. Not sure if this is true, though. [/b]
That is TRUE.

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#1091753 - 05/07/08 03:19 PM Re: OT gas prices
ProdigalPianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 1049
Loc: Phoenix Metro, AZ
 Quote:
Originally posted by YD:
I remember renting a car in Europe (I think it was Brussel, but I might be mistaken) before 2000, and paying just under a dollar for gas, and then after I filled the car up I realized that the price was per LITER, not per GALLON. So, now we pay for the just about the same as poor Europeans were paying for it a decade ago. Just puts everything in perspective for me... [/b]
That's true, but it's my general impression that a lot of Europe is reasonably covered by public transportation...whereas only a small percentage of the geographic area of the U.S. is covered by any public transportation at all.

And it will take years and years before that gets caught up...if ever.
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Adult Amateur Pianist

My only domestic quality is that I live in a house.

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#1091754 - 05/07/08 03:35 PM Re: OT gas prices
whippen boy Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 3886
Loc: San Francisco
 Quote:
Originally posted by Rosanna:
It was $3.97/gal 2 days ago but it's higher in San Francisco proper.
Every day on the news I hear the reporter say "highest gas prices in the nation are to be found in San Francisco". \:\( My car is supposed to take premium, but I've downgraded a notch; even so, the price is still well over $4.00.

I must drive from gig to gig - I'm on the road several hours every day, and must pay bridge tolls too...

I also notice a new trend - gas stations are charging for air! I have a slow leak in one tire, which equates to a slow leak in my wallet.
_________________________
Grotrian 225
S&S Hamburg-C
M&H "A" at home

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#1091755 - 05/07/08 03:48 PM Re: OT gas prices
ROMagister Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/26/08
Posts: 518
Loc: Bucuresti, Romania
The rise has a fundamental cause, called PEAK OIL. Easy to find oil is running out, or has already. It will get only worse, and surely ! So we better PREPARE !!
www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
is a quite mild site about that. I know much more radical...

By the way, it seems to me most US-ians were much too willing/accepting of auto-commuting and dispersed living like "Desperate Housewives" ;-);-)
Us Europeans had compact cities started when cars weren't there ;-)

The typical popular Romanian-made car is the Dacia 1410 or newer Logan. Originally a copy of Renault 12, then upgraded, and again, in last 8 years with injection engine. Burns ~6-6.5 l / 100 km. Normal-sized to largish and underpowered (60 HP) for today's European cars, smaller than usual US monsters. Cost new $3500 a few years ago, the current version is 6000-8000. This is NOT the Tata Nano ;-)

... Still I don't forecast so expensive electricity for electronic keyboards to stop working so we remain only with acoustic instruments... back to 19th century !

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#1091756 - 05/07/08 03:50 PM Re: OT gas prices
Triryche Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 1451
Loc: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
 Quote:
Originally posted by whippen boy:
I also notice a new trend - gas stations are charging for air! I have a slow leak in one tire, which equates to a slow leak in my wallet. [/b]
In Milwaukee, I saw that start in the late 80's, I remember a buddy of mine (who had been going thru some tough times) exclaiming, "25 cents for air!!? Yes!! Now I can finally breathe!!”

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#1091757 - 05/07/08 04:13 PM Re: OT gas prices
Rented Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 174
Loc: Spain
I always smile a tad when I see news of Americans complaining about their gas prices. Now that you see what we pay in Europe I hope you understand why I think it is amusing \:\)

I can't blame you though, as it's human nature. I recently moved here to Spain from the Middle East (I'm originally from Sweden). In Saudi Arabia gas was about US$ 0.20 per liter. I later moved to the United Arab Emirates where the price 0.30. Well, that's 50% more expensive and I didn't like it \:\) The UAE then decided to raise it by 30% which didn't quite cause riots in the streets, but people where not happy.

I, for one, hope oil prices continue to rise! Our planet is sick people, and I'm afraid that nothing but a thin wallet will make us change our habits.

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#1091758 - 05/07/08 04:20 PM Re: OT gas prices
whippen boy Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 3886
Loc: San Francisco
 Quote:
Originally posted by ROMagister:
By the way, it seems to me most US-ians were much too willing/accepting of auto-commuting and dispersed living like "Desperate Housewives" ;-);-)
Us Europeans had compact cities started when cars weren't there ;-)
Don't be too quick to judge... I live in an area that has a higher population density than your city, Bucharest. ;\)

If I could take public transportation to all of my musical events, I would. Unfortunately I must carry a trunk load of heavy music scores everywhere I go. The time factor is also a consideration. Even by car, I barely have enough time to get from one venue to the next.
_________________________
Grotrian 225
S&S Hamburg-C
M&H "A" at home

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#1091759 - 05/07/08 05:06 PM Re: OT gas prices
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
 Quote:
Originally posted by whippen boy:
My car is supposed to take premium, but I've downgraded a notch; even so, the price is still well over $4.00. [/b]
Do you often check the gas mileage? It's likely that you get a difference in mileages bigger than the difference in prices.

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#1091760 - 05/07/08 05:12 PM Re: OT gas prices
bluekeys Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 1337
 Quote:

That's true, but it's my general impression that a lot of Europe is reasonably covered by public transportation...whereas only a small percentage of the geographic area of the U.S. is covered by any public transportation at all.

And it will take years and years before that gets caught up...if ever.
I don't think public transportation will ever reach the level of acceptance in the US that it has in other parts of the world. Both as a matter of geography and national mindset, Americans demand independent transportation. Even if that means driving golf carts to work.

BTW--I'm actually glad to see gas prices rising. It's inevitable that an alternative to gas guzzling autos will happen, and higher prices will make it happen sooner, and therefore less painfully.

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#1091761 - 05/07/08 05:23 PM Re: OT gas prices
Roger Ransom Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 1254
Loc: SouthWest Michigan
When I posted this morning the prices were around 3.75 USD. I filled the tank in my Miata after work and it was 3.99. Pretty scary.

We have always had fairly fuel efficient cars because I've alway realized that we WILL run out of oil. Not in my lifetime certainly, but petroleum is not being replaced - not very fast anyway :-). In the middle 70s the US had a scare that made people start thinking of alternative enery sources and smaller cars but shortly after that there was an insane rush to gigantic vehicles with huge engines.

I hope we take it to heart this time and get busy.
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#1091762 - 05/07/08 05:27 PM Re: OT gas prices
Johan B Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/07
Posts: 968
Loc: The Netherlands, Grootegast-Gr...
We pay in the Netherlands this day:

€ 1,519 for one litre!

BTW......above all....we are many times in a traficjam in this crowded country.....
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Yamaha clp320PE

Currently working on:Sonaten of Haydn/Mozart, Suites Bach/Hndel, Sonate pathetique Beethoven
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#1091763 - 05/07/08 05:27 PM Re: OT gas prices
Les Koltvedt Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/05
Posts: 3195
Loc: Canton, MI
Update for SouthEast MI..$3.85
_________________________
Les Koltvedt
LK Piano
Servicing the S. Eastern Michigan Area
PTG Associate

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#1091764 - 05/07/08 05:30 PM Re: OT gas prices
JeanieA Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 503
Loc: Reno, Nevada
Please don't paint all Americans with the same brush: Public transportation would be wonderful, but out here in the wide open spaces of Nevada it's near non-existant. Towns are hundreds of miles apart, there's no bus service between. I'd LOVE to take public transport (or walk or bike) to work, but it's not an option. I live 9 miles (horizontal) and .25 miles (vertical) from work and the road is four lane highway, not safe for either. We were in Prague a few weeks ago, and I see how many Europeans can live easily without a car; public transport is available everywhere, inexpensive, and efficient. If only.

Corn & ethanol...that's a contributing factor to the rise in food prices. Farmers are able to get higher prices for the corn (good) and it's going to create a cleaner fuel (good). But that means there's less feed for cattle (bad) and it's more expensive (also bad). It's a start, but not a panacea. I can't even mention this thread around the house: husband sells commercial vehicles for GMC and is a certified master mechanic in alternative fuels. His blood pressure goes up with these kind of discussions as folks who don't have all the facts suggest things that aren't realistic.

BTW: gas is $3.83/gal. regular as of this morning in Reno.
_________________________
Collector of sheet music I can't play.

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#1091765 - 05/07/08 05:39 PM Re: OT gas prices
gmm1 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1674
Loc: Spokane WA
 Quote:
Originally posted by bluekeys:
BTW--I'm actually glad to see gas prices rising. It's inevitable that an alternative to gas guzzling autos will happen, and higher prices will make it happen sooner, and therefore less painfully. [/b]
Except for the pain to those families that cannot afford it, I'm with ya, bluekeys...

I am lucky in that the price is inconvienent, but does not really cause me to re-think what I buy or not. Some families are making very hard decisions, as gas is something they must buy to continue to work.

Some of us have become spoiled. My lovely bride DRIVES to the the gym. If gas was 20.00 a gal., she could walk, and not need the gym to begin with. Notice, I picked on her, with no mention of me.

Our zoning laws have "forced" us (OK, maybe allowed is more correct) to live away from our jobs, causing millions to be spent on roads to get back and forth.

I sometimes wonder, though, just where is everyone going ALL THE TIME. And, just a guess here, but I'm thinking 75% of the cars have one person in them.

Traffic is becoming an issue everywhere, and the price of fuel does not seem to be stemming the tide, so maybe it's still too cheap.
_________________________
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#1091766 - 05/07/08 07:08 PM Re: OT gas prices
Deserves Fudge Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/20/06
Posts: 15
Loc: Seattle
I'll chime in with a different perspective. I have no idea how much gas costs in Seattle. North of $3, I'm sure, but my bike doesn't use it, so it's not very relevant. I have a car, but I put about 500 miles on it last year. I'm seriously considering selling it.

I'm not trying to convert anyone, and I understand that bike commuting doesn't work for a lot of folks because they have to haul stuff, travel long distances, suffer from health issues (though some of those can be solved through exercise), or live in inhospitable climates. My wife has a car and drives it most days. For me, though, biking is pretty much the perfect solution year-round. I save the cost of parking, wear and tear on the car, gas, and a gym membership. All that savings last year made a substantial dent in the price of my grand piano!

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#1091767 - 05/07/08 07:14 PM Re: OT gas prices
Late Beginner Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 588
Loc: West Australia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Stacey E:
I think my brother was telling me that the guy who invented the diesel engine (named Diesel) actually designed it for use with plant based fuels, but that the auto manufactures adapted it for use with petroleum instead, in the interest of oil companies. Not sure if this is true, though. [/b]
He was right about the plant based fuel. Rudolph Diesel lived from 1858 - 1913, so corner gas stations weren't as plentiful as they are today. ;\) Early engines ran on all manner of liquids and gases. Diesel used peanut oil, but he was apparently also interested in the potential of using coal dust. Any oil, including the petroleum based stuff has an organic origin, so early inventors tended to start out using whatever was locally available or what they thought might give the best "bang for their buck" - i.e lamp oil or whatever.

I think that petroleum based fuels won out basically because they had widespread applications for heating, lighting, power etc and could provide an efficient range of products at a reasonable cost. Bio-diesel looks interesting, but I think it still has a way to go. There are still large environmental costs involved with growing it. Anti-petroleum, pro-bio enthusiasts tend to overlook (or not know) all the costs of turning over large areas of land from food production to fuel, using modern agriculture methods. It's a whole big can of worms in itself. Interesting stuff though.

When I first pumped gas as a job to help work through college it was less than 2 shillings a gallon. So about 19c US I guess. In Australia it's now somewhere around $1.40 per litre, which I suppose is between $5 and $6 US for a gallon.

I might have to get myself a steam car. \:\) (Not as outlandish as it sounds, one of my brothers recently rebuilt a steam car, and has a friend who built a steam powered motor bike. )

Cheers,

Chris
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#1091768 - 05/07/08 07:20 PM Re: OT gas prices
crusadar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 670
Loc: Middle England
originally posted by LisztAddict
 Quote:
USD 2.32 x 3.78 $/gal = $8.77/gal [/b]
Good point, the Imperial (British) Gallon = 4.55 litres, slightly more than the US Gallon = 3.78 litres, it still means we pay a lot more for our road fuel though. The new industrial countries, India and China, are prepared to pay anything for oil so things will get worse. Here in the UK we could, if forced to, get by using public transport but I don't think you could in the USA....the country is too big. I once tried to spend a few weeks without a car in the USA, travelling by bus, after three days I gave up and hired a car.

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#1091769 - 05/07/08 07:22 PM Re: OT gas prices
DanXZ Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/06
Posts: 69
Loc: North Yorkshire, UK
I'm interested to hear how much of the US price is tax. Here in the UK with several layers of taxations hitting the process approximately 63% of our gas price goes straight to the government.

Wumpusbear: I cycle to work too and where I live it's actually faster due to growing traffic congestion. On the occasions I have to take my car it takes between 15 and 30 minutes longer - including shoe & shirt changing times!

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#1091770 - 05/07/08 07:24 PM Re: OT gas prices
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5924
Loc: Down Under
 Quote:
Originally posted by Late Beginner:
When I first pumped gas as a job to help work through college it was less than 2 shillings a gallon. So about 19c US I guess. In Australia it's now somewhere around $1.40 per litre, which I suppose is close to $6 US for a gallon.
[/b]
Yeah - I remember 30c a gallon when I had my first car (a cute but seen-better-days renault 10). Now I'm happy if I manage to find it for under $1.50 a litre. Still better than Europe, though \:\) .
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#1091771 - 05/07/08 07:26 PM Re: OT gas prices
Rosanna Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: San Francisco Bay area
 Quote:
we are many times in a traficjam in this crowded country
Johan B, unfortunately around San Francisco, we have the same problem. Commute traffic jams can start as early as 6:00am and last until 9:30am. In the evening, it's from about 3pm (2:30pm on Fridays) to after 6:30pm. S. California is similarly bad.

Unfortunately, the US cities just weren't planned nor built with the use of public transport in mind. Of course we can try to use public transport, but the infracstruture really works against the best of intentions in many cases.

After the long lines at the gas stations back in the 70s went away, everyone just went back to business as usual. I wonder if this round of price increase will really and finally push Americans to permanently go for cars with better mileage, and for a real push towards developing alternative fuel and energy.
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#1091772 - 05/07/08 07:41 PM Re: OT gas prices
polostrings Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 216
Loc: Hawaii
$3.96 / gallon in Hawaii, for premium. It's always been high here.

I hear around mid century the auto companies bought out the railroads and ran them to the ground.

It's all a cycle, the high gas prices will force economical cars or new technology which will bring it down again.( like the eighties)
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#1091773 - 05/07/08 08:00 PM Re: OT gas prices
Late Beginner Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 588
Loc: West Australia
We can even relate this more directly to pianos.

Everything in our houses has some connection to the petro-chemical industry. Not only are oil based products used in the transport of goods and to provide power for manufacture, they are also widely used in everything from plastics to paints and so on.

Digital keyboards owe a large debt to oil, and even acoustic pianos use finishes and plastics that would connect back to oil.

I'm not sure how many octaves to the gallon you get when you make a modern keyboard though... \:D

Chris
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#1091774 - 05/07/08 08:13 PM Re: OT gas prices
Late Beginner Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 588
Loc: West Australia
 Quote:
Originally posted by currawong:
Yeah - I remember 30c a gallon when I had my first car (a cute but seen-better-days renault 10). Now I'm happy if I manage to find it for under $1.50 a litre. Still better than Europe, though \:\) . [/b]
I remember the old Renault 10. Friends had a 10 or two and I had a 16 for a while. Quirky but cute, as you say. \:\)

My first car was a 1930 Austin 7. That's going back a bit..... \:D

Living where I do, some sort of motorised transport is essential for most journeys. We did have a railway somewhere near but they tore it up many decades ago. Now the land is used as a walk/cycle trail. Maybe I should investigating getting a camel.... but on the other hand I knew somebody who had one and it did massive damage to the orchard and general vegetation at his place, so maybe not...

Chris
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#1091775 - 05/07/08 08:26 PM Re: OT gas prices
Akira Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/27/07
Posts: 1645
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Not much you can do about the price, whatever it is.

Just make the best of a bad situation.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/drive.shtml

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#1091776 - 05/07/08 09:37 PM Re: OT gas prices
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4236
Loc: Arizona.
Rosanna:

A couple points on "bio-diesel" or diesel vs hybrids.

We currently have....a lot (however that much is!) of used grease/frying oil which is virtually FREE to use in a car set up for bio-diesel. The problem is simply economics. It is cheaper to pay $4.00/gall for ready pump fuel than to go through the filtering process as well as the pain in the arse factor of obtaining used frying oil and cleaning it.

What I like most about a diesel engine is the torque it provides (to counter wind resistance and go faster up steep hills) and also the longevity of the engines.

It is NOT uncommon for a diesel engine to run 500k miles with no major engine work.

Hybrids such as the Prius as absolutely fantastic in stop and go driving situations to regain the energy from braking. Also, wind resistance is not much of a factor at lower speeds.

A hybrid is NOT the most efficient way to go if you primarily do highway driving; especially at speeds of 75-80 mph.

This higher speed driving is where the diesels shine best.

Here in Arizona, everything is very spread out and we also do primarily highway driving so the diesel makes the most sense.

In mostly city driving, a hybrid may be a better choice.

If you are a "greenie", don't forget to ask yourself where the bank of batteries will end up when they are spent!. Many people don't realize this.

BTW, to REALLY make everyone mad, there is a patent on an combustion engine that uses water (H20) as its fuel source. Rumor has it that the big oil companies have spent millions buying up these patents and burying them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An unamed source has been following the trail of potential water powered cars for a few years now, over this time he has compiled a list of successful inventors!
Here they are!

Andriah Puharich
Archie blue
Bob Boyce
Carl Cella
Charles H. Garrett
Daniel Dingel
Hector Pierre Vaes
Nakamatsu Yoshiro
Sam Leslie Leach
Stanley Meyer
Steven Horvarth
And a few other unidentified people!

The most noteable of these was Stanley Meyer who is dead unfortunatley! In fact so are Carl Cella & Hector Pierre Vaes all before there time and under suspicious cercumstances! The rest have either been threatend, sold out or keep to them selves! Apparently it's not a good idea to threaten Big Oil companys. An internet search will find info all of these individuals!

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#1091777 - 05/07/08 10:18 PM Re: OT gas prices
Rosanna Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 1360
Loc: San Francisco Bay area
Mr. Hunky,
 Quote:
In mostly city driving, a hybrid may be a better choice.
Yep, that's my situation.

 Quote:
If you are a "greenie", don't forget to ask yourself where the bank of batteries will end up when they are spent!. Many people don't realize this.
You are right about disposing the batteries. Even for CFL (compact fluorescent lightbulbs), the mercury in there makes it unwise to just toss the bad bulb into the trash. Me, greenie, has thought of such things. But what to do? Choose the better of evils for now. I think we need to invent Star Trek transporters.
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#1091778 - 05/07/08 11:09 PM Re: OT gas prices
Late Beginner Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 588
Loc: West Australia
 Quote:
Originally posted by mr_super-hunky:

BTW, to REALLY make everyone mad, there is a patent on an combustion engine that uses water (H20) as its fuel source. Rumor has it that the big oil companies have spent millions buying up these patents and burying them.
I don't imagine that it would be hard to prove or disprove the idea that "Big Oil" has bought up and suppressed water fueled engines. But it does sound more like a colourful rumour than the full story.

I can still remember the fuss (and laughter) that occurred here a couple of decades ago when one of our State Premiers officiated at the unveiling of a 'water powered' car under development by a local inventer. Nothing was ever heard about it afterwards.

Presumably water can be used by breaking it into its component gases, but there could be problems extracting enough power from a litre of water to make its use practical?? A more traditional way of getting power from water is by heating it and using the steam. Steam cars, steam trains and even steam motor cycles have a long history. A combination of solar energy and steam power could be used for a variety of stationary situations, but is probably not good enough for cars yet. I believe that it's also being trialled as part of a system that converts solar energy to electricity that can be pumped into the power grid too.

The other big problem with water is that it's a precious resource in its own right. So I guess we'd need to make sure we weren't going to solve one environmental problem by creating another (a popular trick! ).

I like the sound of your diesel. Having been brought up on a farm, with tractors and trucks, the smell of diesel is as aromatic and nostalgic to me as roses. (true) \:\)

Cheers,

Chris
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#1091779 - 05/08/08 12:08 AM Re: OT gas prices
TX-Dennis Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 4126
Loc: Texas
One misconception that has been mentioned is that diesel is only more expensive than gasoline because it has become the "in" thing. The truth is that refiners are now required to re-refine diesel in order to get its sulfur content down to that mandated by current U. S. law. This makes diesel, which once was much less expensive to produce than was gasoline, now more expensive to make than gasoline. Another minor factor is that the federal tax on diesel is 24 cents per gallon whereas the federal tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon. Of course, state tax is added to each gallon on top of that, and it varies from state to state.

Yes, I live in an oil producing area. No, I do not work in the petroleum industry. I drive a relatively fuel efficient 4 cylinder vehicle as does my wife. The area where I live, though, is known as the per capita truck capital of the world. It seems that virtually every vehicle on the road here is either a Suburban, a Tahoe, a Hummer, a Ford Expedition, a Lincoln Navigator, a pickup, or a Cadillac Escalade. I would hate to have to buy gas for one of those. This morning I paid $3.52/gallon for gasoline. I did not buy from the least expensive place in town, as I prefer to purchase brand name gas for its higher detergent content versus the generic. Disclaimer: I once owned a pickup truck, but gas was much less expensive in those days. \:D
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#1091780 - 05/08/08 12:20 AM Re: OT gas prices
hotkeys Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/07
Posts: 788
Loc: Massapequa, NY
We pay between $3.85 to $4.25 in New York (NY city and Long Island), though there is talk of suspending the state gas tax for the summer (thats 33 cents on the dollar)...

- Mark
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#1091781 - 05/08/08 12:28 AM Re: OT gas prices
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4236
Loc: Arizona.
Late beginner: I like the smell of fresh cut grass and gasoline .

Dennis: you are right on the newer processing required on ultra low sulfer diesel making the prices a little higher.

I believe parts of Norway are running on hydrogen. Can you say ..Ka-Boooom?. ;\)

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#1091782 - 05/08/08 01:03 AM Re: OT gas prices
Vincent L. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/31/07
Posts: 349
Loc: Austin, TX
And what about this? Compressed Air engine:
http://www.mdi.lu/eng/affiche_eng.php?page=communique3

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#1091783 - 05/08/08 03:20 AM Re: OT gas prices
crusadar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 670
Loc: Middle England
originally posted by Late Beginner
 Quote:
My first car was a 1930 Austin 7. That's going back a bit..... [Big Grin] [/b]
Talking about Austin 7's, this BOOK is a good read if you come across it.

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#1091784 - 05/08/08 03:46 AM Re: OT gas prices
Late Beginner Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 588
Loc: West Australia
Thanks Crusader, I'll keep an eye out for it.
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#1091785 - 05/08/08 06:55 AM Re: OT gas prices
Peyton Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2553
Loc: Maine
 Quote:
Originally posted by TX-Dennis:
One misconception that has been mentioned is that diesel is only more expensive than gasoline because it has become the "in" thing. The truth is that refiners are now required to re-refine diesel in order to get its sulfur content down to that mandated by current U. S. law. This makes diesel, which once was much less expensive to produce than was gasoline, now more expensive to make than gasoline. Another minor factor is that the federal tax on diesel is 24 cents per gallon whereas the federal tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon. Of course, state tax is added to each gallon on top of that, and it varies from state to state.

\:D [/b]
Thanks Dennis. I've heard different reasons for the higher price of diesel and that makes the most sense. I have a Sprinter van that gets 27 to the gal. I was feeling pretty good about that until the price of diesel jumped to $4.30 a gallon. I just filled up for $110. My business in the summer is driving around to art shows to sell my work. I have a show in Chicago coming up and I can't imagine what it's going to cost me in fuel alone... :rolleyes:
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#1091786 - 05/08/08 08:20 AM Re: OT gas prices
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3573
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
Does anyone know what the average price per gallon of regular, for example, is when adjusted for inflation? How do they figure that? In terms of it's equivalent cost at some previous time?

And compared to other commodities and services has the price of gas increased at a greater or lessor rate?

In other words, while we may think the price of gas is inordinately (or unreasonably) high, especially when compared to what we were paying for it at some time in the past, how does it compare in that regard to other items and how their price has risen?

And just from the standpoint of the relative costs of a gallon in different parts of the world (as quoted in the news and here in this thread) isn't the price here in the US still somewhat of a "bargain" (if I dare to use that word in this connection)?

Regards, JF
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#1091787 - 05/08/08 12:19 PM Re: OT gas prices
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
actually, there's a current technology - fuel cell, hydrogen based, which simply means the engine will run on 'water'. the only thing is, as i read, that it's still in the early stage, and costs too much to build, which means it's not coming to the market soon.

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#1091788 - 05/08/08 12:37 PM Re: OT gas prices
ROMagister Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/26/08
Posts: 518
Loc: Bucuresti, Romania
All those hydrogen technologies are energy *carriers* not sources. And not very efficient either (except in very large quantities like for the Shuttle). Very much electric energy must be used to break down water (electrolysis) into hydrogen and oxygen... and this energy will come from more nuclear ? coal ? Wind and solar are OK, but quite 'diluted' and not in the huge currently used amounts. Hydrogen can also be made from natural gas (methane) but also with losses in process.

Coal, tar sands and other inferior fossil fuels also accelerate Global warming. Although I've read debate in green circles that the GW problem is overrated, a sort of 'acceptable front' to get the same actions needed for Peak Oil, which is the real problems. They said:
"The only thing worse than Peak Oil is NO Peak Oil".

Still I marvel at the pre-oil, proto-industrial society that made the Silbermann organs, Pleyel pianos and other marvels ... If they made music then (and what music !) then there will be hope after oil too ;-)

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#1091789 - 05/08/08 02:00 PM Re: OT gas prices
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4236
Loc: Arizona.
Dear fellow Americans, Here is a glimpse of what our future transportation will look like!.

Although you may chuckle a bit now, if oil rises to over $200/barrel as projected, you may want to place your order now!.

Sure, you'll arrive to work a bit late everyday with bugs in your teeth but driving a super energy efficient vehichle will make you an instant chick magnet. (Just don't go on any dates on rainy days ;\) ).



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#1091790 - 05/08/08 03:30 PM Re: OT gas prices
gmm1 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1674
Loc: Spokane WA
 Quote:
Originally posted by signa:
actually, there's a current technology - fuel cell, hydrogen based, which simply means the engine will run on 'water'. the only thing is, as i read, that it's still in the early stage, and costs too much to build, which means it's not coming to the market soon. [/b]
If Only....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9iWaCMbw60

My question is, the car runs on gas or water....why??? If water worked, why would you ever purchase gasoline again?
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#1091791 - 05/08/08 04:03 PM Re: OT gas prices
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
Back in around 1994-95, I saw on TV, Discovery or TLC I believe, about A21 fuel invented by Rudolf Gunnerman. It was tested for a few million miles in commercial trucks, and the results were impressive. Nevada was nearly ready to have A21 pumps at gas stations. Then all of a sudden, A21 disappeared. Wonder who bought the patent and buried it.

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#1091792 - 05/09/08 03:14 AM Re: OT gas prices
polostrings Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 216
Loc: Hawaii
 Quote:
Originally posted by mr_super-hunky:
Dear fellow Americans, Here is a glimpse of what our future transportation will look like!.


[/b]
Hilarious! How old is this moped? Do they even exist anymore?
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#1091793 - 05/09/08 03:33 AM Re: OT gas prices
polostrings Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 216
Loc: Hawaii


Here's my politically incorrect Gelandewagen. It's 15.9 mpg on a good day, about $100 to fill the tank with premium. I love it, it can go up a wall, or go through it ( which ever way you choose).
I'm speeding up progress by oil consumption, therefore forcing technology to be more efficient. :p
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#1091794 - 05/09/08 05:06 AM Re: OT gas prices
crusadar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 670
Loc: Middle England
Diesel fuel used to be around 20% cheaper than Petrol (Gas) here until diesel engined cars with increased fuel economy became popular, then to make up for the loss of tax revenue the government made Diesel slightly more expensive than Petrol so that although you got more M.P.G. you still paid he same amount of tax. My wife's car is a French Peugeot 307 Turbo Diesel from which she gets up to 65 mpg, that's Imperial Gallons. There are other advantages of having a diesel engine, i.e., no problems with damp ignition (drive through floods), less likely to get fried if involved in a collision, less/easier maintenance and the engines last a lot longer too.

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#1091795 - 05/09/08 06:09 AM Re: OT gas prices
Late Beginner Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 588
Loc: West Australia
 Quote:
Originally posted by polostrings:
I'm speeding up progress by oil consumption, therefore forcing technology to be more efficient. :p [/b]
Excellent excuse Polostrings. I'll have to remember that one. ;\)

Here's my current contribution to your cause.



Chris
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#1091796 - 05/09/08 07:43 AM Re: OT gas prices
Props2u Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Connecticut, USA
We can complain all we want, but the bottom line is prices will continue to rise because it isnt stopping anyone from doing what they normally do. Roads are still packed with cars 24/7, airline traffic still strong, they have NO reason to drop prices. SUV sales are down a tad, no biggie.
I feel bad for truckers. I saw on the news a bunch of interviews with some and they said it costs them over a grand to fill their tanks, they barely make any money and are pretty mad. I heard if they stop delivering for a week it would cause a crisis. They should be threatening to do this more.

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#1091797 - 05/09/08 08:35 AM Re: OT gas prices
Euan Morrison Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 1588
Loc: Edinburgh
 Quote:
Originally posted by Props2u:
I feel bad for truckers. I saw on the news a bunch of interviews with some and they said it costs them over a grand to fill their tanks, they barely make any money and are pretty mad. I heard if they stop delivering for a week it would cause a crisis. They should be threatening to do this more. [/b]
Yes - it happened here in 2000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_fuel_protest

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#1091798 - 05/09/08 11:17 AM Re: OT gas prices
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21450
Loc: Oakland
Our local bus agency has three fuel cell buses, and there are a number of fuel cell cars that their supervisors use. The problem is the same problem as using food oils for fuel: There is not enough of the materials needed for them to support the lifestyle people have gotten used to in the past century.

These are all methods of making energy portable. There is only one energy source: the creation of the universe. That led to the creation of suns, which became supernovae, which is the stuff we are made of. Just about all of our energy comes from the fusion furnace we call the sun. Petroleum and other fossil fuels are the energy from the sun from hundreds of millions of years past, trapped by plants and compressed by the ages into a compact fuel. That is also an expensive way of making energy portable, but we have not factored in the value of the thousands of years it took for the conversion to occur.

The current high prices are nature's way of telling us we have been wasting its gifts. (If you believe in a supreme being, the current high prices are its way of telling us we have been wasting its gifts.) We have been living lives of unimaginable luxury, so that our children will not have to in the future.
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#1091799 - 05/09/08 03:49 PM Re: OT gas prices
Roger Ransom Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 1254
Loc: SouthWest Michigan
OOPS!
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#1091800 - 05/09/08 03:51 PM Re: OT gas prices
Roger Ransom Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 1254
Loc: SouthWest Michigan
 Quote:
Originally posted by BDB:
We have been living lives of unimaginable luxury, so that our children will not have to in the future. [/b]
I like that statement a lot. I'm going to use it.

Thanks
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#1091801 - 05/09/08 05:35 PM Re: OT gas prices
Mr Super-Hunky Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 4236
Loc: Arizona.
Polostrings:

The moped pictured is a mid 70's model. There are several companies that still make them and they can be purchased new starting in the $700-ish range.

They were never meant to be an only source of transportation for obvious reasons and limitations but they do fill the missing link found somewhere between a bicycle and a motorcycle.

I grew up in Connecticut and spent many summers in Block Island R.I. Mopeds WERE the primary source of transportation since the island is so small (7 miles long, 3 miles wide) and they can go up to 25-30 mph.

At 80-100 mpg, they are insanely efficient and also fun to drive if just putsing around for a few miles. I would think that they would be great for sightseeing in Hawaii.

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#1091802 - 05/09/08 06:35 PM Re: OT gas prices
polostrings Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 216
Loc: Hawaii
Late Beginner,

Isn't your car the car in the commercial where the guy is hugging his car, and it hugs him back? \:\) Like that one..

Mr. SH,
Hawaii is too spread out for mopeds. A Harley, or convertible would be better. Funny they are still around. I know scooters are used often in parts of Europe.
_________________________
Aloha!

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#1091803 - 05/09/08 10:08 PM Re: OT gas prices
melissa d Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 113
Loc: Cibolo, Texas
How about this as an alternative mode of transportation? zap sedan You just can't go very far or fast.
_________________________
My blog such as it is http://melissasjourneys.blogspot.com

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#1091804 - 05/09/08 10:46 PM Re: OT gas prices
crusadar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 670
Loc: Middle England
originally posted by polostrings:
 Quote:
Hilarious! How old is this moped? Do they even exist anymore?[/b]
When I visit France I see those pedal type mopeds everywhere, they're very popular.

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#1091805 - 05/09/08 11:08 PM Re: OT gas prices
Mark... Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 4375
Loc: Jersey Shore
The Zap car should have coffin handles on the side. Because you will surely die in it, if you drive it in the USA...

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#1091806 - 05/10/08 12:56 AM Re: OT gas prices
polostrings Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 216
Loc: Hawaii
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mark...:
The Zap car should have coffin handles on the side. Because you will surely die in it, if you drive it in the USA... [/b]
You beat me to it :p Not only would you save on fuel cost, you would also save on the cost of a casket, it's just the right size.
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Aloha!

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#1091807 - 05/10/08 07:54 AM Re: OT gas prices
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3573
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by John Frank:
Does anyone know what the average price per gallon of regular, for example, is when adjusted for inflation? How do they figure that? In terms of it's equivalent cost at some previous time?

And compared to other commodities and services has the price of gas increased at a greater or lessor rate?

In other words, while we may think the price of gas is inordinately (or unreasonably) high, especially when compared to what we were paying for it at some time in the past, how does it compare in that regard to other items and how their price has risen?

And just from the standpoint of the relative costs of a gallon in different parts of the world (as quoted in the news and here in this thread) isn't the price here in the US still somewhat of a "bargain" (if I dare to use that word in this connection)?

Regards, JF [/b]
Anybody have any answers?

Regards, JF
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.

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#1091808 - 05/10/08 10:36 PM Re: OT gas prices
TX-Dennis Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 4126
Loc: Texas
I heard a discussion on a local talk radio program where an oilman said that if you applied the inflation rate to the gasoline price in 1960, the price would now be about $4.00 per gallon. We're getting pretty close to that. I have not done the calculations to check how accurate his assessment is, so take it for what it's worth.
_________________________
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#1091809 - 05/11/08 12:16 AM Re: OT gas prices
Mechanical Doll Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 199
Loc: Garden State, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by melissa d:
How about this as an alternative mode of transportation? zap sedan [/b]
Does anyone else hear the clown-car music playing in the background? :p

 Quote:
Originally posted by crusader:
originally posted by polostrings:
 Quote:
Hilarious! How old is this moped? Do they even exist anymore?[/b]
When I visit France I see those pedal type mopeds everywhere, they're very popular. [/b]
This is a little to light on hardware for my peace of mind, but after hearing an exchange the other night from the car and moped in front of me:

Car Driver: Hey, how many mpg does that thing get?
Moped Driver: 90!


I'd definitely consider investing in one for short trips in the spring/summer/autumn.


 Quote:
Originally posted by TX-Dennis:
I heard a discussion on a local talk radio program where an oilman said that if you applied the inflation rate to the gasoline price in 1960, the price would now be about $4.00 per gallon. We're getting pretty close to that. I have not done the calculations to check how accurate his assessment is, so take it for what it's worth. [/b]
I wonder if that statement takes into account that your average new car today gets about 27mpg, whereas the steel behemoths of yore got, what, 15mpg? I'm not saying that it should or shouldn't, but it would affect the price per gallon.
_________________________
Music produces a kind of pleasure which human nature cannot do without. ~Confucius

Music is moonlight in the gloomy night of life. ~Jean Paul Richter

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#1091810 - 05/11/08 01:12 AM Re: OT gas prices
Late Beginner Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 588
Loc: West Australia
 Quote:
Originally posted by polostrings:
Late Beginner,

Isn't your car the car in the commercial where the guy is hugging his car, and it hugs him back? \:\) Like that one..

[/b]
Yes that's the one. It's an affectionate model. \:\) I can't say I still remember to hug it as regularly as I used to, but it still puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. It looks like it ought to run on its own self-generated sunshine but, alas, it does require to be fed on a diet of high grade gasolene.

I compensate for my wickedness by not driving a lot of miles in it, and also by having capped my own breeding at one child. So I'll have a very slim line of decendants to gobble through whatever is left of the planet after we've all finished tucking into it.

Cheers,

Chris
_________________________
Who needs feet of clay? I can get into enough trouble with feet made of regular foot stuff...

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#1091811 - 05/14/08 09:30 PM Re: OT gas prices
FormerFF Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 476
Loc: Roswell, GA, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by TX-Dennis:
One misconception that has been mentioned is that diesel is only more expensive than gasoline because it has become the "in" thing. The truth is that refiners are now required to re-refine diesel in order to get its sulfur content down to that mandated by current U. S. law. This makes diesel, which once was much less expensive to produce than was gasoline, now more expensive to make than gasoline. Another minor factor is that the federal tax on diesel is 24 cents per gallon whereas the federal tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon. Of course, state tax is added to each gallon on top of that, and it varies from state to state.

Yes, I live in an oil producing area. No, I do not work in the petroleum industry. I drive a relatively fuel efficient 4 cylinder vehicle as does my wife. The area where I live, though, is known as the per capita truck capital of the world. It seems that virtually every vehicle on the road here is either a Suburban, a Tahoe, a Hummer, a Ford Expedition, a Lincoln Navigator, a pickup, or a Cadillac Escalade. I would hate to have to buy gas for one of those. This morning I paid $3.52/gallon for gasoline. I did not buy from the least expensive place in town, as I prefer to purchase brand name gas for its higher detergent content versus the generic. Disclaimer: I once owned a pickup truck, but gas was much less expensive in those days. \:D [/b]
The EPA, quoted on BP's web site, estimates the additional cost of low sulfur diesel fuel at 5 cents per gallon: BP report on low sulfur diesel

The real reason for diesel and gas prices: increased demand from developing countries: CNN report on refinery activity
Also, refinery runs are lower than they would normally be, probably because refineries do not like their current margins on gasoline production.

If you go to GasBuddy.com and generate a graph of gasoline prices vs. crude oil prices, you will see that it isn't that the price of diesel is excessively high, but that the price of gasoline is lower than you would expect, considering the price of crude oil.
Historical price chart

Cost only sets a floor for a minimum price. Market price is set by supply and demand. The cost of refining gasoline vs the cost of refining diesel isn't the cause of today's prices
_________________________
Piano self teaching on and off from 2002-2008. Took piano instruction from Nov 2008- Feb 2011. Took guitar instruction Feb 2011-Jul 2013. Can't play either. Living, breathing proof some people aren't cut out to make music.

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#1091812 - 05/14/08 10:12 PM Re: OT gas prices
melissa d Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 113
Loc: Cibolo, Texas
Here is another alternative to gas plus it doesn't look like a toy \:D tesla motors
_________________________
My blog such as it is http://melissasjourneys.blogspot.com

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#1091813 - 05/14/08 11:00 PM Re: OT gas prices
Vincent L. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/31/07
Posts: 349
Loc: Austin, TX
But the problem with electric cars is the time to charge the batteries: Hours
Compressed Air cars can get their compressed air tanks refilled in ~ 3 minutes. Which is the time it takes to refill our cars today.
Max speed is ~90 mph, already enough to get a ticket. Check it out on youtube .

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#1091814 - 05/15/08 12:54 PM Re: OT gas prices
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1549
We as a country will never reach a point where we will have some type of "fuel" for free..they will make it so your paying for "something" compressed air..electric charging stations with a special plug or a car that runs on "distilled water"
companies will make you pay for something! \:\(

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#1091815 - 05/15/08 01:00 PM Re: OT gas prices
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
do you think the release of national reserve oil would help the market price?

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#1091816 - 05/15/08 01:57 PM Re: OT gas prices
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
 Quote:
Originally posted by signa:
do you think the release of national reserve oil would help the market price? [/b]
Yes, just a little and also temporarily. Then everything would be back to where it was or worse.

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#1091817 - 05/15/08 02:26 PM Re: OT gas prices
melissa d Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 113
Loc: Cibolo, Texas
After Katrina there was a release of oil from the strategic oil reserve that led to a fall of 46 cents per barrel for the price of oil. Given that minor reduction I don't see that it would significantly change the current situation if reserves were released again.
_________________________
My blog such as it is http://melissasjourneys.blogspot.com

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#1091818 - 05/15/08 04:31 PM Re: OT gas prices
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 1549
yes for the summer driving season..to get people to travel by auto to spur summer businesses..if no one vacation travels even say 50 to 100 miles
will be hurtin for certain!

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