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#1094410 - 08/14/08 09:49 PM Recital 11 -- Critical Discussion Room
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17809
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Welcome to the place where critical discussion of the pieces from Recital #11 takes place!!

It is requested that only the pieces from performers who have requested critical feedback (as indicated in the main recital thread) be discussed.

Please don't be shy about asking questions or offering constructive advice to the performers. After all, the goal is improvement of the playing.

General discussion and chit-chat should take place in the General Discussion Room .
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#1094411 - 08/15/08 09:59 PM Re: Recital 11 -- Critical Discussion Room
Coolkid70 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 378
Loc: Irvine, CA
Hi, this is a comment for GregF, who played Pastorale by Burgmuller.

I think you did a very fine job on your performance of this piece! I'm not sure whether this was part of your performance anxiety or not, but the timing was not consistent in some parts of the piece.

Here is a copy of the score I am viewing: http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/7/70/IMSLP09670-Burmiler_op.100.pdf

Your accompaniment starting in measure three is a little off. You play the eighth notes like quarter notes. There are some other areas that have this problem as well - maybe the coda, to name one. I'm sure it can be fixed easily if you count carefully.

Again, I enjoyed your performance! Keep up the excellent work!
_________________________
Kawai K-3 (2008)

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#1094412 - 08/16/08 09:08 AM Re: Recital 11 -- Critical Discussion Room
epf Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 658
Loc: Central Texas
46. Paul Cast - Sonatina Op.36 No.1 Allegro, Andente, Vivace[/b] Paul, while I found the playing to be very even and sweet, it seems you ignored all the dynamics and the temp indicators. From a dynamic standpoint the piece ranges from piano to forzando (louder than forte). The names of the sections, Allegro, Andante and Vivace indicate how it is to be played. Vivace is to be lively while Andante is at a walking pace and Allegro is between them -- you played them all at the same tempo. Finally you also ignored the repeats -- perhaps in the interest of time.

Pick one or the other (tempo or dynamics) to work on and get that under your fingers then add the other and I think you'll find that this can, indeed, be a good show piece. You're off to a good start!

Ed
_________________________
"...a man ... should engage himself with the causes of the harmonious combination of sounds, and with the composition of music." Anatolius of Alexandria

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#1094413 - 08/16/08 02:17 PM Re: Recital 11 -- Critical Discussion Room
Paul Cast Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 8
Loc: Unites States of America
epf:[/b]

I hope it is appropriate for me to respond in this thread.

Thank you very much for taking the time to give my submission such a professional and detailed critique. I agree whole heartedly. I am encouraged that you feel that with practice I can develop this into a real performance piece. I didn’t expect anyone to say that, and it’s wonderful to hear.

I am currently working on the second Clementi sonatina. I cannot promise that it will be ready for the next recital. I’m a slow learner.

I intend to keep playing the first sonatina every practice period. I will keep your evaluation in mind.

Thanks.
_________________________
Playing piano since 2005

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#1094414 - 08/17/08 09:12 AM Re: Recital 11 -- Critical Discussion Room
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4981
Loc: boston north
This group is great! Sharing music, sharing ideas, sharing critiques.

Just one from me as a suggestion that several might enjoy (the teacher in me coming out!)

Copper who for sure must be masking a romantic inside! You are doing very well for 3 yrs playing! Do you have a teacher or are you learning on your own (via the piano guy)?

You mentioned that you didn't mind a critique (which this is not)... but a suggestion if I many...

Have you yet tried to add some harmony in the RH?

When reading lead sheets one starts off with RH melody and LH chords. Next step would be to add the harmony in the RH and have the LH just play bass notes (the name of chord for starters).

In the mean time, even adding some harmony notes to the RH might be a different perspective for you.

Another thought for some lead sheets and this one might work for Stardust...

Repeat the LH chord steadily on beats 1 2 3 4 and add the RH single melody notes where appropriate, in a relaxed 'swing' style.

Maybe you have already tried these, but a few suggestions. They 'are' fun in case you haven't yet!

LL
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#1094415 - 08/17/08 11:07 AM Re: Recital 11 -- Critical Discussion Room
Copper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/17/05
Posts: 1056
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
Originally posted by lilylady:

Copper who for sure must be masking a romantic inside! You are doing very well for 3 yrs playing! Do you have a teacher or are you learning on your own (via the piano guy)?
lilylady - I just answered your comments in the other thread at WTF.

Thanks again for your suggestions.

Yes, I’m self-taught. I wanted to play for years. One day I bought a keyboard and started. Then I found these guys here and upgraded my keyboard and got into these recitals.

I’ve read a number of books, and made some progress but if I want to be a romantic I’ll have to learn to play Chopin well and to do that I’ll have to get a real teacher. It may be a year or two in the future but one of these days I’ll get to it.
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#1094416 - 08/25/08 10:03 AM Re: Recital 11 -- Critical Discussion Room
Mati Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/05
Posts: 1276
Loc: Lodz, Poland
Ozor Mox,

You have a great feel for the slower parts in Minute Waltz, but the fast passages could be a tad cleaner.

It's minute from adjective "minute" meaning infinitesimal, very small, therefore there is no bound to play it in around a minute time. Even though most of master performances of this piece are lightning fast, it is not an only option.

Try playing the whole piece even slower than you do now (1:55 is a very good master performance tempo!). It is very beautiful even at 2:30 - 2:40, but then you will be able to work on evenness in your right hand and waltz feel.

You will feel much more comfortable that way, and the dynamics will gain a lot of control then I guess.

I liked your playing a lot, and I believe you are just steps from playing it flawlessly and perfectly.

I'm envious you tackled it that smooth, despite my little criticism!

Best wishes on it!
Mateusz
_________________________
Mateusz Papiernik
My youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Maticomp
"One man can make a difference" - Wilton Knight
Kawai CN21 (digital), Henryk Yamayuri Kawai NX-40 (grand)

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#1094417 - 08/26/08 04:27 AM Re: Recital 11 -- Critical Discussion Room
Ozor Mox Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 231
Loc: Hampshire, England
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mati:
Ozor Mox,

You have a great feel for the slower parts in Minute Waltz, but the fast passages could be a tad cleaner.

It's minute from adjective "minute" meaning infinitesimal, very small, therefore there is no bound to play it in around a minute time. Even though most of master performances of this piece are lightning fast, it is not an only option.

Try playing the whole piece even slower than you do now (1:55 is a very good master performance tempo!). It is very beautiful even at 2:30 - 2:40, but then you will be able to work on evenness in your right hand and waltz feel.

You will feel much more comfortable that way, and the dynamics will gain a lot of control then I guess.

I liked your playing a lot, and I believe you are just steps from playing it flawlessly and perfectly.

I'm envious you tackled it that smooth, despite my little criticism!

Best wishes on it!
Mateusz [/b]
Thanks so much for this input Mati, you make a very good point that the length does not actually mean 'one minute' which I was not fully aware of!

One flaw with the way I play the piano is that I tend to play louder and faster than I should. The very strange side effect of that is that with a piece like this where I have learnt to play it very fast, I actually find myself making more mistakes when I slow it down, because I have it memorised at a fast pace. It will take some concentration to do what you have suggested, especially in the trill parts, but I think you are absolutely 100% correct about the benefit of doing so in control, dynamics and feel.

Thanks also for your kind compliment, I appreciate it a lot.

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#1094418 - 08/26/08 05:19 AM Re: Recital 11 -- Critical Discussion Room
Mati Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/05
Posts: 1276
Loc: Lodz, Poland
So we are similar after all \:\) I, too, have trouble to slow down when I learn something at fast pace. It wrecks me, I'm angry and unhappy, but after hours of torture to slow it down and make it sound at least that good as with faster one, everything eventually smoothens out.

I'm keeping fingers crossed! \:\)

M.
_________________________
Mateusz Papiernik
My youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Maticomp
"One man can make a difference" - Wilton Knight
Kawai CN21 (digital), Henryk Yamayuri Kawai NX-40 (grand)

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#1094419 - 08/27/08 08:43 AM Re: Recital 11 -- Critical Discussion Room
gerg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 1651
Loc: Houston, TX
Also, Ozor, one thing that may help is to play with little or no pedal except in the sostenuto section in the middle. Stick with it, this is a fabulous little valse and you have it in the fingers \:\) BTW your tempo was just about right. 1:40-2:00 is a good target time for 64/1.

Mati, that makes three of us \:\) It's good for us to practice a piece at many tempos. Supposed to help finger independence and aid against chord attack that is possible only at higher speeds.
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Wikicital: A collaborative effort to build a knowledgebase of classical music history combined with examples. Your chance to both perform and write...

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#1094420 - 08/28/08 05:15 AM Re: Recital 11 -- Critical Discussion Room
Ozor Mox Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 231
Loc: Hampshire, England
 Quote:
Originally posted by gerg:
Also, Ozor, one thing that may help is to play with little or no pedal except in the sostenuto section in the middle. Stick with it, this is a fabulous little valse and you have it in the fingers \:\) BTW your tempo was just about right. 1:40-2:00 is a good target time for 64/1.

Mati, that makes three of us \:\) It's good for us to practice a piece at many tempos. Supposed to help finger independence and aid against chord attack that is possible only at higher speeds. [/b]
Aha, you have exposed another of my many piano playing flaws! I tend to use the pedal too much on fast pieces to try to "smooth out", when really I should be playing more evenly! \:D

Your advice is very welcome though. In all seriousness, I actually wasn't sure where to use the pedal on this piece. The middle bit I'm fairly certain of, but when I listen to recordings I find it hard to tell how much they are using in the fast parts. I will definitely attempt them without pedal though, and also cover my ears at the same time! ;\)

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