Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum I've hit that wall, where do I go from here? (Course Advice)

Hi there,

This is my first post, although I have checked in and out of this forum once or twice before. I knew I'd end up joining eventually when I hit a wall in my piano playing progression.

Before I get to the point, I feel as though I ought to share my story, so you know where I'm at. I learned classical piano from the age of 8 up to to the age of 16, through sight reading & music theory etc. I did not really enjoy it, and although I got to grade six, I had not taken things seriously.

At 16 years old I moved away to go to college and from there on did not touch the keys for another 10 years.

At the age of 26, I was established as a singer (tenor) in my Church Worship group, but from watching the other few great piano players my group, I suddenly felt the urge to play again, plus they needed more players.

I got myself a Yamaha DGX 620 digital piano (I can highly recommend this to anyone wanting to get a first digi piano, with a nice real piano feel & sound + its got loads of other sounds and functions).

On taking up the piano this time round, I knew I wanted to be able to learn from chords, patterns, and techniques rather then sight reading and music theory. I can still sight read, but I prefer to play from chords and ear.

Well my next step after getting my new set of keys, was to register for David Sprungers Pattern Piano Course (again I can recommend this, for anyone starting out, as it got me to a good level, allowing me to play backing keys on stage with my group). I followed the intial book through from start to finish, which basically teaches you how to play chords, which combined with different rhythmic patterns, produce a nice sounding accompanyment to a tune. Afte the intial book, I progressed onto the harder DVD's, but found they were to hard, as the pace was to fast for me, and it seemed to like a big jump in ability level. I've sometimes gone back later on to these DVD's, and things have started clicking for me, so they have still been great.

Well anyway from doing Sprungers course, and picking up my own techniques that from practicing, I found myself playing on stage at Church to an audience of several hundred just 3 months after I'd touched the keys again from 10 years before. I really have no complaints.

Well now 2 years on at age 28, I'm still playing on stage, but I've got to a point where I feel like I can't get any further, without more tuition. I am still very far off the ability level of my experienced piano peers in the worship group. They are both self taught piano players, who play from chords and ear, and have been doing it a lot longer then me. What they can do which I can't, is stroll up and down the piano playing all sorts of fantastic sounding accompanyment and arrangements. They can do all the frills, rifts, and bluesey notes, and just seem to hit the keys that just sound right, in a way that I can't comprehend. They are other quicker and more accurate then me.

So where am I at now, ability wise? Well I started off with the basic triad chords, then learned the inversions, the major / minor 7ths, as well as a few other techniques, and just started to put things together and play what sounded good to the best of my ability. I have written several of my own songs, and I sometimes feel that these sound a better then when I'm following chords because they come from sounds I just hear and know go together. I can certainly play to chords and produce a pleasing sound, but I want to produce much fuller arrangements, where I can improvise around stuff. I also feel very stuck in the centre of the piano, and find myself being a bit robotic when trying to spread out.

Don't get me wrong, I'm really admire my piano buddies, and could be content with where I've got to, but I just want to push myself further because I know that producing those really full arrangements, will bring so much more enjoyment to my playing, and I'll feel more free.

I forgot to mention the type of music I'm playing along to is contemporary feel good type rock ballards, slow ballards, and from time to time some good old hymms. I've started to add major / minor 9ths & 11ths to my playing which has really helped produce a nicer sound.

Well if your still with me at this point Here's my question

I would like to try another online / self learning piano course, which is going to teach me how to improvise, and produce those great sounding arrangements, where I'll be free to move up and down the piano at will, hitting those notes in ways that just sound sweeter. I found Sprunger's teaching a little fast to follow on his more advanced courses like Phat Chords, which made it hard to pick up what he was actually doing. This is individual to me, and I think it depends how you follow his courses and how quick you are to pick up techniques, because I know others have had greater success.

At the moment I'm swayed toward Mikes Piano Magic, as he seems to be teaching in a slower and easy to follow routine, but I'm not sure whether it would be suitable or if his techniques would give me what I'm looking for.

Can anyone suggest if Mike's Course would be the best, or are there any other courses out there which would take me where I want to go.

Thanks for listening.

Italianie

Italianie, hi:) if you goto the top of the page there is a search button that you can click on and type in piano magic and all kinds of threads will pop up. i dont know much about it yet, but i hope the search will help you or someone else can chime in if they think this course is right for you.

I've been looking at Yoke Wong's courses: Yoke Wong home page . They look pretty good but I can't endorse them from personal experience.

Funburger, thank's I have already done some search's on Piano Magic, but I'm still not too sure if its the one for me.

I'm wasn't just looking for answers on Piano Magic by making this thread though, so recommending some other good courses, which would tick the right boxes for me, would be very much appreciated.

Its difficult to decide when you check out the website's of these types of online courses, that profess to do so much, in so little time, and you start drooling at the thought of being able to play like they demonstrate. Of course in reality I know thats not how its going to be, but advice on the better course's out there would be great.

Thanks Donna, I'll take a look at Yoke Wong's home page.

Haven't had much response so far other then the above suggestion.

To give an example of the kind of improvised piano playing I want to be able to master, then check out the below video clip.

Baywatch Piano It gets much better as it carries on.

That's a lot of blablabla! lol!

Why not consider a teacher?

Hm. I just watched the video. After reading your initial post it seems to me you already have the knowledge, and probably the technique, you need to play all the licks I saw there. What you may not have, and I'm sort of speculating (but I come from having learned to play stuff that's similar) is the confidence and/or the patience to put together the pieces from scratch, and, possibly, the ability to "hear" the chords so you can find them without them being specified.

If being able to "hear" the chords and find them without them being specified is the problem I'm pretty sure pianomagic can help that. But the folks in that course always point out that you have to have the patience to do it from scratch, and ignore the fact that your *technical* abilities are beyond your *hearing* abilities, until your hearing catches up (sorry if I misconstrue some of that - I haven't used pianomagic).

But as for the rhythms and the *ornaments* etc, you already have that ability. It just takes sitting down and working it out. I play the chord changes for a tune and deliberately try a different rhythm (this pianist often just *waggles* the left hand back and forth and adds accents, for instance). I deliberately try adding grace notes in the right hand, or the little fast runs that are used here - three notes leading up to the primary one, or moving parts up or down an octave. But - the reality was, for me, that I couldn't do that in *real time*, as improv, until I had done it a *lot* (for me, it's been a several years-long process) of working out variations and then playing them from memory, rather than as improv. But now it's coming to the point where I have a repertoire of licks and I can mix and match on the fly (and, sometimes, it feels like I just *have* to do that!) so I really *can* do some improv. It's a hoot. So for this part I don't think pianomagic is a magic bullet - it's the being willing to try it, understanding that it probably won't happen overnight (tho it may be faster for you than it is for me), and having the patience to do it. I think that's pretty hard, because one can be so used to just being able to sit down and read the stuff. But it's not about reading, so the skill has to be built, with patience.

And the sooner you take that leap, the sooner you'll be able to play that kind of stuff in real time. But from everything I read in your initial post, and everything I saw in the video, you already have what you need - it's just the process of experimentation that needs to get started. One can feel pretty off-kilter when one first starts, and frustrated because it's not a one-take deal, but if you can live thru that, you'll learn it

Cathy

Oh yeah, it also seems to me you've got enough background to benefit from the DVD's of Ethel Caffie-Austin, who plays great gospel stuff, and has teaching dvd's from Homespun, here: http://www.homespuntapes.com/shop/category.aspx?id=367 I watch stuff like that, and even if I can't do, technically, all of it, I can usually find some kind of simplified version of it that still adds pizzazz to my playing. Later on, as you say, you can go back and pick up more from it.

I still think you have most of what you need, and given that you've done a lot of exploring up to now, it might be mostly the confidence that's not quite there -

Cathy

Hi

Listening to your background and where you're at now....it really does sound like you're looking for real progression to the next level, and quick!

I don't feel that a self taught program can deliver what you want or in the time that you want it.

If you're able, I would strongly consider a teacher perhaps once a fortnight. I think you will find that having a teacher opens up so many new avenues and that your progress will get a real sudden and instant boost. I think you will notice an immediate benefit on your very first lesson.

Good luck...

Mark

Hi Jotur / Prince Charles,

Jotur, thanks for your advice. I also feel that I probably do have the ability, but I feel that I lack the knowledge. Its like you say if it could be broken down for me, then I can learn how to do it through practice and repetition, then over time I would be able to do it. All I need is to find the best way of learning.

I'm not in a rush in the sense that I must learn this stuff over night, I know that doesn't happen in reality, unless your incredibly gifted. What I would like to do, is make the right choice in getting to where I want to go.

If I could find a teacher who could train this sort of stuff, and if he told me "Yeah you will be able to do that, but it will take 2 years, and will cost X amount", then I'd go for it.

Prince Charles, in terms of getting a real teacher who can teach improvisation, and accompaniment to the standard I require, I have absolutely no idea where to start looking, but it would be very really important to find the right person, with the right teaching style. I could probably afford to take one lesson a week.

Unfortunately I do have a really busy schedule, and a family, so the online method would be much more convenient. Thats why I liked the idea of Mikes Piano Magic, because he teaches you online in person, although I appreciate this can't be compared to actually sitting down and being physically shown in person.

Duane Shinn has a course called how to dressing up naked music, and Dave Higginson course, at pianostar.com, also sound interesting, but I can't work out if they would teach me what I'm looking for

Well I will probably choose from these options, not sure which yet :

* Mike Anderson's course, www.pianomagic.com
* Dressing up naked music with Duane Shinn, www.playpiano.com
* David Higginsons course, www.pianostar.com
* Real Lesson's, I will need to find a good instructor based in Leeds UK, so if there's any out there who would be suitable let me know. Most instructors seem to be classical sight reading, with grades etc. This is not what I'm after at all so it may be hard to find one.

Hi there

I have to agree with you....finding the right teacher is imperative. At the moment, I would suggest that your confidence in being able to achieve those things you're after, could be better. But I really do believe that if you do find the right one then you'll notice a big difference in your thought patterns and confidence. I don't mean confidence in playing, but confidence in being able to achieve that "higher" level.

So how do you do that?

Personally, I would start making some phonecalls! Explain in full disclosure what you're looking to be taught/improve upon. Then gauge their response on whether they can help you, how they can help you and perhaps whether they are currently teaching anyone else these things. The latter being the least important response. Then just be honest and explain, that you're creating a shortlist from which to choose from and will get back to the "winner".

You may even want to take this a step further and try two or three teachers and see which works best for you. When I first started, I did this and am glad I did because my teacher in the 2nd lesson - was perfect for me. I even told them prior to the lesson that this is what I was doing. This is also a good benchmark for gauging response. ie Do they support your idea or are indifferent?

On a final note, I think it's really important to physically and mentally "go out of your way" to achieve what it is you want. Lets face it, that's the only way in life you actually achieve anything. Don't settle for the easy option - it just may lead to more frustration.

Mark

Prince Charles,

I've taken your advice, and I've arranged two initial free lessons with two local instructors, who I found online and both feel they can teach me what I want to learn.

I've let them both know I'm trying two teachers out before I commit and have stated that if this arrangement isn't suitable for them, then we can cancel the free lessons, as I'm not in the business to mess people about.

Although £24 per hour seems expensive, I guess if it take me to another level of playing then its money well spent.

Sort of feel excited to be taking the next steps to becoming a better player hehe.

Thanks for the sound advice, I'll let you know how I get on.

Cheers,

Italianie

That's fantastic....!

Please keep posting I'd love to know how you get on.

Mark