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Hi everyone,

I have a question...and if anyone could answer it, I'd really be appreciative.

I've just got my ABRSM diploma in classical piano [the highest grade ABRSM offers], and have been playing now for about 11 years. But - whilst I've no intention of completely ditching classical music - it isn't really what I want to play any more. Call it cheesey or whatever, but all I really want to play is what you hear in bars and hotels and airports: 'cocktail' [or 'lounge'] piano.

But I just have no clue on where to begin with it. I've got a silly amount of sheet music books for that genre, and the sound I make is okay...but that clearly just isn't how it's 'really' done, is it? My question, then, is how to go about learning? My life is currently at a point where I might be able to be investing 10 hours a day in learning standards and the sort from fakebooks or whatever to build a repetoire [with the hope of maybe one day taking it professional]...but I need some advice on where to begin.

I've looked over Sudnow and Piano Magic - but I'm not totally sure they're what I need [tell me otherwise if you disagree!]. I've also looked at fakebooks etc. - but I have no idea where to begin with chord structures etc.. Ideally I wouldn't be employing a teacher just yet, either - I just want to begin, take it at my own pace, and see where I end up. If I never end up learning 500 standards without music then so be it, but I'd like the skills to be able to make that decision from. I just need to know where to begin.

So yes...how do these multitudes of cocktail artists learn their art? And how can I get in on it?

I'd really appreciate a response if possible. I have all day tomorrow to act on what you suggest...so go for it - I'll keep you updated.

Thanks,

Harcourt

Harcourt:

I would seriously recommend that you check out www.sudnow.com. The Sudnow method will help you with this. Since you are obviously well trained on piano already, you will catch on quickly. Though the course will start everybody at the very beginning, don't let that mislead you. What you are really learning is not only the physical aspects of playing those chords, but also a way of thinking that will get you playing in that style, which is quite important. There are a lot of very helpful folks on the Sudnow forums at that site too. The focus of the Sudnow method is exactly what you are stating in your post.

Tony

I emailed the piano magic guy a couple months ago and he gave a long thoughtful email response to my question right away. I recommend you try the same and see what he says.

Have you looked at Scott Houston's "Play piano in a flash" course?

- Mark

Check this guy out Bill Susman..
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LxrBXnag8tU

Harcourt,

At your level, I would look at a few transcription books. Get the original CDs with it.

Look at folks like Bill Evans, George Shearing, Hank Jones, Billy Taylor or Dave McKenna just to name a few.

I know that's the kind of music I'd want to hear.

Check this out:
http://www.sheetmusic1.com/jazz.piano.html

That said, you can try a few things to build a repertoire.
- transcribe the changes yourself. It's probably the best way to memorize them quick. Learn the melody perfectly before you start adding embellishments.
- Learn them in a few keys.
- You can get something like the Jazz Piano Book from Mark Levine which explains just about everything you need to know about Jazz theory, including examples on how to apply.

Finally, I'll recommend a few folks on youtube. Definitely check them out.

http://www.youtube.com/user/jazz2511
this guy just put a dvd out for sell also but as of now, all of his stuff, and it's extensive, is available for free, including pdf transcriptions on his site.

and him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=722lK6Qsa3k
this is a beautiful tutorial that will explain the concepts of call and response, voicings, and reharmonization.

Please post some of your progress, I'll follow them with interest.
Good luck.

The ultimate cocktail pianist:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgZW-U-8v7U

Could anything possibly be more elegant?

Hi Harcourt,

I can't recommend these from personal experience but they're courses I'm considering for when I've completed 'Learn and Master Piano'. Like you, I've realized in recent months that while I love listening to classical music, what I want to play is popular music. Here are the links:

Yoke Wong
Runs and Fills

Hello Harcourt

I'm also interested in playing lounge piano and would appreciate hearing where you end up with this.

I'd also like to ask if anyone has taken the Sudnow Method course and can comment to what degree they found it beneficial.

This has been recommended elsewhere, but it's relevant here, too: Check out the book "Piano Girl" by Robin Meloy Goldsby. It's a memoir of her adventures as a lobby pianist. Very entertaining, and may give you ideas for how to proceed. She basically just started with fake books.

Hi Kugelis,

I've been with the Sudnow Method since Jan 2006. So, It's been a little over 2 years. The method works big time if you are motivated to get that sound. The best way to describe it is to take a listen.

If you go to my website, you will hear some of my Sudnow repertoire:

http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

These arrangements are my own. The Sudnow course teaches how to take songs from a fakebook and add those jazzy chord tones.

You will see the date before each song. The first song was arranged by me after 8 months with the course. The last song listed was at my 2 year anniversary.

At this time, I have 45 songs in my repertoire and I entertain at my folk's retirement home during their dinner hour.

You can PM me if you want more information.

Hey Barb - How accomplished were you before starting the course? I am a true beginner at age 51. Been taking lessons for a little over a year...

Naked

Hi Naked Shaman - I had 4 years of lessons as a kid (9 - 13). Then, I quit piano and took up cello. Was a music ed major in college -- taught elementary school music. We had a piano in the house for decades, but it was merely dusted by me (big time regret). Then, I discovered Sudnow in 2006 and I've been glued to the piano ever since.

There are other true beginners, like yourself on the Sudnow forum. Some with barely any piano experience whatsoever. They play a cool Misty for their first Sudnow song - the method is amazing!

To Kugelis if you're interesting in Sudnow, here is something I recorded today, I learned it from a lead sheet, it's not a 100% Sudnow method but a mix of everything I learned including Sudnow method.

http://www.box.net/shared/hfhd01qsos

Serge

Swingin' Barb,

Thanks for the link. I enjoyed your music, especially 'My Foolish Heart'.

It's got me in the mood to dip back into the Sudnow method after an absence of many months!

Thaum (Bladesy on the Sudnow forum)

Hi Thaum,

Small world here on these forums.

Thank you for your kind words. Glad you're heading back to Sudnow Land. As Suds has often said, "This will change your life".

Barb

Harcourt, take a look at Dan Coates, "Complete Advanced Piano Solos." His trademark arpeggiated bass requires advanced technique and IMO the arrangements will be well received in a lounge environment. That's not a knock, BTW, it's just that this kind of arrangement sounds sophisticated, but is not so obtrusive that people are forced to listen.

If it's not available at your local music store, you can get it from Amazon.com

Congrats on your ABRSM diploma!

It's interesting that "cocktail lounge" and "cheesy" so often seem to go together. That being said, I've heard some wonderful players in lounges where no one else was paying much attention. In the lounges where people were paying attention it was much too "cheesy" for me.

There's nothing cheesy about the Sudnow approach. I'd be happy to share stories off-line about my years of experience with lots of his students. Given your experience at the piano your biggest challenge will be figuring out what you can skip and what you need to slow down and spend some time with.

Many people who are great sight readers find the change to a fake book type approach a little challenging at first. Not being a good sight reader myself, I can't really speak to that challenge. But I do know that classical training provides a great foundation upon which to build a more jazz-oriented style.

That being said, I think you could take Sudnow's approach, grab Mark Levine's books on jazz piano, and keep yourself busy for as long as you'd like to - and have a blast!

In the interest in full disclosure, I should mention that I've been the administrator of the Sudnow site since David's passing. I don't want this misconstrued as an advertisement but if you send me a PM I can give you a link to some student recordings that might help illustrate the approach.

I knew someone who did that, at Nordstrom's, and she just sort of contacted them and auditioned, and got hired. She didn't spend a million years at learning how and wasn't even really that good a pianist -- probably intermediate level. You don't really need to be that good in some of those venues. What she could do was play by ear very well, actually -- and sort of improvise in a noodling new-agey way. So that's what she did. I don't know if Nordstrom's still has live pianists in their atrium any more, they used to.

I think you do have to use a lot of fake books and just know other things by heart. Just stick in a lot of arpeggios into songs a lot, they seem to like that.

To get started, I just finished a book called "Piano Girl" by Robin Meloy Goldsby, which is a nonfiction book by a woman who did exactly that. It's an easy read and will let you know how someone else did it -- she ended up being very successful, playing at weddings, important venues, etc. I think she also just started out by knowing classical, and then needing a part-time job while in college or something, I forget. This book is fairly new, actually (but in paperback), and will give you lots of ideas of how to do it and what it's like. My library didn't have it, so I had to buy it on Amazon. I found out about it on NPR, I think, here is a link to their interview of her:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yxpjta

Welcome to the forums ChristinaW!

Yes, I read "Piano Girl" by Robin Meloy Goldsby. I seem to get different perspectives when I read the book a second or third time. And she is a member of this forum too (though she does not post that much).

Monica K. mentioned the use of fake books which is a great way to get started. As I went along in my piano journey, I seemed to want more than the fake books, but if you can improvise in your own way, you will set yourself separate from the rest of the crowd. Do what is best for you and enjoy the journey along the way.

- Mark