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#1097737 - 01/04/05 03:30 PM Chopin Prelude op. 28 -2
teachum Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/19/04
Posts: 2913
Loc: idaho
Am thinking about tackling it next. I have been listening to it just now and it doesn't sound too bad. Has anyone learned it and any thoughts about it compared to 4, 6 and 7 which I can play? Markjpcs - I bet you can answer this one.
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You will be 10 years older, ten years from now, no matter what you do - so go for it!

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#1097738 - 01/09/05 05:46 AM Re: Chopin Prelude op. 28 -2
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4263
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Hi teachum,

No wonder you have received no response.
Perhaps you left out the bracketed digit in your Chopin Prelude 28-2 (0) description.

Prelude op. 28, no. 2 in A minor is deperately morbid and not likely to have been marked down as a "crowd-pleaser" by most members. The jagged experimental alternation of LH chords produces a moody uncertain tonality.

When you mentioned having mastered Preludes 4, 6 ("Raindrop") and 7, the next in line would be the no. 20 (Largo) in C minor. As long that is, as you are up to sight-reading octave chords.
Over the 26 measures the change in dynamics from the introductory "ff" to a repeated closing structrure reduces from "p" to a whispeered "pp" that is quite ear-tingling.

Once you've knocked over 20 you might like to get no. 15 under your belt. The longest of the Preludes with a hint of nocturne stucture at the start and close. The steady tmepo won't burn your fingers.

But if Prelude no. 2 is your meat, go for it.
In doing so you won't find many beaming listeners.

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#1097739 - 01/09/05 11:42 AM Re: Chopin Prelude op. 28 -2
teachum Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/19/04
Posts: 2913
Loc: idaho
Guess I have different taste. \:\) I like "dark" music. Thanks for the advice, BTB. I really appreciate it. I love no. 15 and figure I might be ready for it another year. I can also play Nocture 72 no. 1 by virtue of sheer will and determination. I started it way too early in my piano playing life, but loved it so much that I was determined. I will look No. 20 over. Thanks again!
_________________________
You will be 10 years older, ten years from now, no matter what you do - so go for it!

Estonia #6141 in Satin Mahogany

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#1097740 - 01/10/05 07:24 PM Re: Chopin Prelude op. 28 -2
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4263
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Can't fault your no. 2 teachum. Excuse my presumption.
Most impressed with your flair.

Chopin has a brilliant knack of balancing the roles of the two hands. The plainer the LH motif the more lace-like the RH. In Opus 28-2 the busy raspy nature of the LH chords is crowned with perhaps the simplest treble outline of any of Chopin's compositions. The closing chords ending with an arpeggio onto the keynote seems to smooth the troubled waters. Sheer genius.

Thanks for the Nocturne 72-1 hint. Spent a reminding half-hour playing through a few times. My ABRSM score mentions that the work was published posthumously although an early composition - is it possible that Chopin might have considered the piece too ordinary at the time and let it gather dust!

However, couldn't agree more with the Editor
"it is much more mature and forthright than many of the other Nocturnes."

The rolling LH patterns are easy once you have worked out the optimum finger tuck flow. It's then just a matter o dripping on the RH pognant mixture of lemon and honey. Not many compositions leave you as breathless in the playing.

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#1097741 - 01/10/05 08:12 PM Re: Chopin Prelude op. 28 -2
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
btb... I am enjoying all the chopin info.. I've played alot of Chopin but have heard or read little articulated.... very interesting.

Teachum, when I learned that prelude, I really enjoyed it. I played it enough for a lifetime, I think..


I like # 17.. it is glorious.
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accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1097742 - 01/10/05 08:29 PM Re: Chopin Prelude op. 28 -2
markjpcs Offline


Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 3170
Loc: Wisconsin
I love # 2 as well though I have not studied it yet. I am thinking about #13 for my next challenge and have been playing with it for a day or so. I am always in a state of polishing these beauties.

I tried to run away from Chopin but I can't seem to obtain escape velocity!

Chopin has consumed my studies to a point where I have forgotten other pieces by Beethoven etc, that I love to play.
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#1097743 - 01/10/05 08:44 PM Re: Chopin Prelude op. 28 -2
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
Actually, I'm working on Nocturn Opus 37 #2. I bet you play Beethoven well, Mark. What do you like to play by him? Can you suggest some stupendous shorter pieces? Under 6 pages?
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accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1097744 - 01/10/05 09:07 PM Re: Chopin Prelude op. 28 -2
markjpcs Offline


Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 3170
Loc: Wisconsin
I have actually yet to finish a complete piece by Beethoven. I started out learning the piano (self taught) about 13.5 years ago. I needed to learn to read the bass clef. The piece that taught me the bass clef was the first movement of the Moonlight Sonata. From there I moved on to Mozart and other stuff from some jazz to progressive rock and just plinking around for about 12 years.

I started taking lessons 1.5 years ago and learned my second Beethoven piece. The 2nd Movement of The Pathetique (Adagio Cantabile) which is an extremely beautiful piece. I had started to learn the 3rd Movement of The Pathetique and was about 3/4 finished with it when I switched teachers and Chopin so rudely interrupted.

I intend on going back to finish the Pathetique soon which means getting the 3rd movement finished, re-memorizing the 2nd movement, and learning the first movement after that. Kind of a random way to learn a piece but there are only so many hours in a lifetime! ;\)

I highly recommend the 2nd movement of The Pathetique. It's about 3.5 pages.
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#1097745 - 01/11/05 03:04 PM Re: Chopin Prelude op. 28 -2
teachum Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/19/04
Posts: 2913
Loc: idaho
btb - I didn't take your response as presumptuous at all! I thought you were very helpful. I am playing around with the #20 and I figure I can learn anything that's only 12 measures! I tried it a little bit a few months ago and I wasn't up to reading the octave chords, but I think it's doable now. Am I correct it using my thumb to do the two notes in the 3rd chord of the second measure? Otherwise I cn't reach the E. Seems to work. I love converstions like this!
_________________________
You will be 10 years older, ten years from now, no matter what you do - so go for it!

Estonia #6141 in Satin Mahogany

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#1097746 - 01/11/05 03:59 PM Re: Chopin Prelude op. 28 -2
neciebuggs Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/04
Posts: 620
Loc: Chula Vista
I thought #6 was known as the Cello prelude, as the range of the whole piece is within the range of a cello. I thought #15 was the raindrop prelude... PLEASE correct me if i am wrong. ..... \:\)
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#1097747 - 01/11/05 04:01 PM Re: Chopin Prelude op. 28 -2
neciebuggs Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/04
Posts: 620
Loc: Chula Vista
Teachum.. sorry to butt in... but yes you do use your thumbs \:\)

Ive done a few preludes this year... I was afraid of Chopin as a teen player... now i am totally addicted!
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#1097748 - 01/11/05 04:02 PM Re: Chopin Prelude op. 28 -2
neciebuggs Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/04
Posts: 620
Loc: Chula Vista
that is use your right thumb on both keys...
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Denise

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#1097749 - 01/11/05 06:21 PM Re: Chopin Prelude op. 28 -2
teachum Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/19/04
Posts: 2913
Loc: idaho
You're not butting in, Neciebuggs - I've been told that #6 was originally the Raindrop and George Sands insisted over Chopin's objections on calling 15 Raindrop which it is commonly called now. If you listen to #6 it does have a raindrop effect. I too am addicted to the preludes. I hope to be able to do 15 within the year. We'll see.
_________________________
You will be 10 years older, ten years from now, no matter what you do - so go for it!

Estonia #6141 in Satin Mahogany

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#1097750 - 01/12/05 12:11 AM Re: Chopin Prelude op. 28 -2
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4263
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Chopin Prelude 28-20.

Chopin must had had very flexible hands, teachum. The 3rd RH chord in the 2nd measure is impossible for small hands. The 5-note chord has been stretched beyond the octave where the bottom two notes have to be played by lapping the thumb over the bottom two notes.
However, in amateur hands, this sophisticated contortion results in a coarse muddying effect - better to leave out the bottom Db (left strictly to the connoisseur) and stay with the easy octave flow.

4-note treble chords can be a sight-reading nightmare but after the first 4 measures you will notice that the remaining 9 measures are more manageable 3-note chords. The bass marches in clear 2-note octaves.

Of interest, it is only in works of slow tempo that composers experience the need to use 4 note chords. Increase in tempo is found to steadily reduce chords to potent 2-note components. Internal notes are like adjectives describing a chordal noun. Fortunately for the sight-reader, good writing demands that the composer be economic in the use of "adjectives". A case of "less is more".

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#1097751 - 01/12/05 09:06 AM Re: Chopin Prelude op. 28 -2
teachum Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/19/04
Posts: 2913
Loc: idaho
Boy - you are a WEALTH of info. Thanks so much. I'm only taking lessons once a month because my teacher and I are both teachers and it's all our schedules allow during the school year. This is really helpful.
_________________________
You will be 10 years older, ten years from now, no matter what you do - so go for it!

Estonia #6141 in Satin Mahogany

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#1097752 - 01/12/05 09:27 AM Re: Chopin Prelude op. 28 -2
markjpcs Offline


Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 3170
Loc: Wisconsin
Personally I do not nor would I recommend dropping the bottom Db in the 3rd RH chord in the 2nd measure.

It is not hard to play that chord with practice.

Why are well practiced amatuer hands going to "muddy" this chord anymore than a professional?

I say stick to the score. It is what Chopin wanted. Don't disappoint him. ;\)
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#1097753 - 01/12/05 10:01 AM Re: Chopin Prelude op. 28 -2
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
You can't really drop the Db because it's the 7th, and the chord would lose its character. It's not really a hard stretch, and playing 2 notes with the thumb occurs in a lot of pieces.

I like the second prelude, but it should be paired with a more up-beat one. The best pair would be #2 and #3, but #3 is pretty difficult.

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#1097754 - 01/12/05 10:08 AM Re: Chopin Prelude op. 28 -2
teachum Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/19/04
Posts: 2913
Loc: idaho
I agree that using the thumb for the Db and E isn't hard. I'm not at home, so I hadn't tried dropping it yet.

We should have a Chopin Club! Has anyone received their sweatshirts yet? Speaking of clubs.
_________________________
You will be 10 years older, ten years from now, no matter what you do - so go for it!

Estonia #6141 in Satin Mahogany

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